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cheesemouse
04-15-2002, 09:46 PM
While experimenting with a McDermit(sp) butt and a 314 shaft I got the total weight down to 16oz and change. I wanted to test that light break stick theory. You know, light stick equals increased tip speed equals powerful break. Here's the rub: While messing around breaking I ran some balls with the light stick and I really liked it. I have never played with anything less than a 19oz. Has anyone gone down this path already? I don't want to waist a lot of time seeing if playing American pool with a light stick is possible if it has already been shown to be a bad deal.

04-15-2002, 10:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> While experimenting with a McDermit(sp) butt and a 314 shaft I got the total weight down to 16oz and change. I wanted to test that light break stick theory. You know, light stick equals increased tip speed equals powerful break. Here's the rub: While messing around breaking I ran some balls with the light stick and I really liked it. I have never played with anything less than a 19oz. Has anyone gone down this path already? I don't want to waist a lot of time seeing if playing American pool with a light stick is possible if it has already been shown to be a bad deal. <hr></blockquote>

well, ol cheeser, i'm maybe 2 months or less ahead of you in the same quest.

brief history:

started with a 20.5oz rambo at age 15ish and shot with it till some years ago when i got back into pool. asked around, tried some folks' cues and went to a 19oz pechauer. heaven.

6 mos.or so ago i got a pred.s/p and went for 18.5oz. even better. really gettin to like the feel of a precision instrument. took the weight bolt out of the pred. now it's a light 18(i think) and even better. that's as low as they go i'm told.

still got one pechauer left(went thru a few) and some time back i took the weight out of it. big sukka weight. i fingure it's 16ish now. strapped a tal-w/b on it and i'm using it for a breaker. great results but it's gettin me more curious about how light is too light. i'll be gettin another pred.s/p or 2 at the end of this league seasopn and i'm wondering how to make that thing even lighter. i guess just have the cue dr. start boring up it's butt. (brief pause for the audience to recompose itself).

i'm pretty convinced i'm gettin more power thru the ball on breaks and so far, i can't find a downside on regular game shots. i did notice that someone (maybe fred??) posted a list of top players and their cue weights and noticed a quite a few light weights. i think i'm seeing a real trend to lighter hardware.

anyone else??

dan

stickman
04-15-2002, 10:44 PM
Dan, I remember the guide you speak of. In fact I did a search for it and looked it over again. The guide is for 1999. I wonder if anything has changed since then. It would be interesting to see a current one.

Tom_In_Cincy
04-16-2002, 07:43 AM
I posted a copy of the men's Camel Pro tour stats a while ago and the average weight of their cues was about 19 oz, with a little less than 13 mm tip size. If this helps.
BTW I started playing with a 16 and gradually worked up to my 20.5 oz. cue today.. I do break with a 19 oz cue.

BillPorter
04-16-2002, 07:54 AM
Dan &amp; Cheese, it's hard to argue with success (though I've done so on a few occasions), but here's my two-bit theory on cue weights. When you change to a lighter (or heavier) cue, you become more aware of the cue and generally more alert overall. Just like when you get a new cue and play great with it for a while. I figure any change in the characteristics of the cue sort of "wakes you up" and makes you more alert, conscious, aware, etc. And that leads to better play, at least for a while. Eventually, you adapt to the new cue or new weight of the old cue and the cue "disappears" from conscious awareness. What do you think?

Kato
04-16-2002, 07:59 AM
My Cuetec break/jump is 19 oz. Both my Helmstetter's are 19 oz, my Predator measure's 19.3 oz. My older Predator was about 18 oz with the weight bolt taken out. I didn't like the cue that light. Can't say about it working or not.

Kato

Rich R.
04-16-2002, 08:12 AM
I think, much more important than the weight of a cue, is the balance. A properly balanced cue feels much lighter and comfortable when playing. I recently loaned a league teamate my Scruggs for a match. After playing the first couple of racks, he came to me and said, "What does this thing weigh, about 2 oz.?" He couldn't believe how good it felt. I think it is all in the balance.
Rich R.~~~my Scruggs is about 19.5.

Jay M
04-16-2002, 08:25 AM
How light is too light? That's a good question and one that I researched a bit through trial and error when I was buying cues a while back. I found that it is fairly easy to tell when a cue is too light. The way that I ended up choosing a cue was to go to the pool hall and grab a house cue, the lightest one that they had (it was a 15oz cue). I broke with it a few times and it FELT light. It felt like the cue wasn't even there and that there was no power at all. I started working my way up through the cues an ounce at a time (half ounce if it was available) until I found a cue that didn't feel light any longer. That was a 17 oz cue. I stopped and took a break for a half hour or so to let my arm relax and then went back and found the heaviest cue in the place (25 oz) and did the same thing only getting lighter each time until I found one that was comfortable. That one was 21 oz.

Now I had a range that felt OK, 17-21 oz. Next I started testing how much spin was available to me with each of the weights in that range. I started with the 17 oz cue, placed the cue ball and an object ball on a fixed mark and then tried drawing and following the shot, looking for maximum english, taking a short break before each change in weight. When I narrowed it down to a 2 oz range I started working on touch shots and narrowed it down to a 1 oz range. For me, 17-18 oz provided the best all around control. I found out after playing those cues for a year or so that my accuracy was suffering a bit because of the degrees of spin that I could apply. I went to a 19 and my accuracy improved, sacrificing a bit of spin for the accuracy. Currently I shoot with a 19.25 Oz McDermott that is a good compromise between the english and the accuracy and break with a 17.75 oz Meucci which gives me more cue speed in the break (this was my old play cue).

The moral of this eye-bleeding post is that it's different for everyone and the best thing that you can do is to experiment until you find the weight that best fits your style of shooting.

Jay M

Tom_In_Cincy
04-16-2002, 11:47 AM
Bill, good thoughts.
Its like the people that think that gambling will improve their game. Its just the fact that they are playing more and more pool, which can allow them to see (up close) better players and what to do.
They can learn to play just as good if they watch others gambling... or so I'm told... been there done that.. and learned more from watching tournamets and practicing than I ever did gambling.. (about how to play better pool)

Scott Lee
04-17-2002, 01:00 AM
Cheesemouse...interesting thread! I have always played with a 19-19.5, until 5 yrs ago when I went to 18.5, and now I play with an 18 oz cue. I love the lighter weight, and break and play with the same cue!

Scott Lee

Doctor_D
04-17-2002, 04:43 AM
Good morning:

I play with a 20oz Muecci with a Predator 314 shaft and break with a 19oz Predator BK. I am also experimenting with the removal of the weight bolt from the Predator BK and I am having a had time adjusting to the lighter cue. Working in Manhattan, where subways and stairs are common place in my daily commute and excursions around town to meet with clients, I am constantly carrying and/or toting a 20lb back pack which contains my computer and client files. It is for this reason, or so I have been told, that lighter has not proven to be better for me. My friend and practice / playing partner has a 16oz Predator 2 and when I used it once it felt as if I was holding a tooth pick.

So, with all that having been said, I am comfortable with the 20oz Meucci and will most likely remain with the 19oz break cue.

Dr. D.

TonyM
04-18-2002, 12:42 PM
Here's an interesting point. In the last 40 years the average cue weight as used by the professional players has come down by about 2 ounces. I think that this is due to 2 factors. 1) new equipment -ie: faster cloth etc. and 2) a change to 9 ball from straight pool.

I often advise a student to experiment with a lighter cue. A light cue is easier to accelerate up to speed and can help with acquiring the feel for draw shots, or any shots that require power. A light cue is also more forgiving with respect to speed control (for technical reasons that I won't bore you with!). However, a heavier cue is easier to keep on line (more inertia) so is better for pure potting.

I would not reccomend using a cue under 17.5 ounces for serious pool, as I think that under the heat, your stroke might suffer (the cue is harder to keep on line).

I've seen many newbies tell me that they think they have discovered a "secret" weapon by switching to a very light (16 ounces or less) or very heavy (23 ounces or more) cue. I always point out that the professional circuit is like a formula one race track. The good ideas stay on and win, while the bad ideas get dropped. You really don't see any pros playing with a 16 ounce cue and I think for good reason.

Tony
-likes 'em a little lighter, but not made from balsa wood!

cheesemouse
04-18-2002, 08:10 PM
All,
I'd like to thank everone for the advise and I really think it will save me some time. Two posts in paticular seemed right on the mark.
BillPorter: <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>When you change to a lighter (or heavier) cue, you become more aware of the cue and generally more alert overall.<hr></blockquote>

and then TonyM: <blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I always point out that the professional circuit is like a formula one race track. The good ideas stay on and win, while the bad ideas get dropped. You really don't see any pros playing with a 16 ounce cue and I think for good reason.<hr></blockquote>

I think I'll try playing with an 18oz and see if the good feeling lasts. thanks again all. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

04-19-2002, 07:58 AM
I see you put some effort into this Jay, but without matching shaft diameters and tips (for the various weight cues) it's hard to put much faith in your findings.
Mike

04-19-2002, 08:08 AM
Good post Tony. Here's a bit of my experience. I find that cut-off point where the cue tip can go cleanly through the cueball without noticably slowing to be about 18 oz. This was the weight of my playing cues for several years. I have moved to 19 ozs. and find now that finesse shots which require best speed control (ie "kill" shots) more difficult to manage, but I do pocket balls better. There just seems to be compromises in either direction - but experimentation is half the fun.
Mike

Q-guy
04-19-2002, 08:13 AM
Post deleted by Q-guy

cheesemouse
04-19-2002, 08:35 AM
Q-guy,
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>The cue and it's weight, has to do a little bit of the work. I have heard what you said hundreds of times and am sorry to say it always turns out the same. Who knows, you may be the exception though. Good Luck<hr></blockquote>

I finally have a day off and early this morning I put the coffee pot on and fired-up my poolroom(at home)hoping to findout more on the light cue issue. The operative word is exception from your quote above; I have an answer. I am not the exception. I did my drills behind only a couple cups of coffee and the cue at 16oz's was out of control. It was scary /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif I'm on a forced break now and plan to go back with the cue as close to 18oz's as I can make it. By the way, there is no way I will give up my coffee. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

TonyM
04-19-2002, 10:11 AM
Good points Mike. You really do notice the cue slowing down when the weight gets below 17 ounces. Although it feels wierd at first, it really is not a bad thing. Actually, all cues must slow down when striking the ball (it is part of the physics of the collision) but the heavier cues are not as noticeable.

I've been thinking of using two cues sort of like having two different clubs in your bag. For normal playing where I want good speed control I'll use an 18 or 18.5 ounce cue. But for shots where I must jack up, hit off a rail, or a long tough pot I will use my break cue, which is essentially the same as my playing cue but 2 ounces heavier.

Playing around with my "adjust'o cue" (a cue I built that allows me to vary the weight and balance easily in the pool room) I find my percentage on certain shots (see above) to go up when I add a couple of ounces to the cue. But my finesse game is better when I use the lighter cue. Rather than compromise, why not just use a cue optimised for the job?

I haven't looked it up, but is ther a rule against doing this?

Tony