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nhp
11-07-2003, 07:10 AM
What do you think of our foreign policy in the past few decades? This sociology class I'm taking is really opening my eyes to the terrible mistakes our country has made that has cost millions of lives. In the mid 90's under Clinton we stood by as the Tutsis slaughtered 800,000 Hutus in Rwanda, purposely refraining from calling it genocide, even though it obviously was. If it had been termed as genocide at the time, the UN would have been forced to take action. After the genocide took place, after 800,000 men, women, and children were slaughtered, President Clinton went to Rwanda to make an apology, acknowledging that it was genocide, and that our country should have acted. He rewarded them with a plaque in honor of the victims. It was about the size of a textbook.
In Gulf War I, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Gulf War II we used shells and ammunition made out of uranium waste (because they pierce armor like it's melted butter), which contains plutonium. Plutonium is one of the most toxic substances on earth. It was exposure to radiation from used ammo and shells made out of this that caused Gulf War Syndrome, which struck thousands of veterans, and killed a few hundred. Gulf War Syndrome is also responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians who were exposed to the spent shells also. With knowledge of this right after the first Gulf War, our military continued to use this type of ammunition, and still uses it today.
After the first Gulf War, many Iraqis attempted to rise up against Saddam, with the promise of support from the USA. They were all slaughtered by Saddam's superior army (supposedly weakened), including many of their families. Our country backed out at the last minute and left them hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned.

During Afghanistan, our country stood by as members of the Northern Alliance (rebel Afghan fighters) broke the Geneva Convention and brutally tortured and killed thousands of Taliban POW's. Many were stuffed into the backs of large trucks and driven across the hot desert for days without food or water. Some of the prisoners who survived managed this by scraping wounds into the dead around them and drinking their blood.

Get this- After World War II, the cost to rebuild all of Europe after inflation today was roughly $50 Billion. Bush wants $87 Billion to rebuild Iraq. $87 Billion that our country doesn't have. After this war, every country that had any anti-American sentiment now holds that sentiment 10-fold. He's gotten our country into a mess, and made us look like a big bully. I remember hearing one of Bush's speeches a few years ago, talking about how all he wanted was peace in the world. All he has done since he took office was cause war. What ever happened to Osama Bin Laden? What about Saddam Hussein? But hey, nobody is perfect. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

eg8r
11-07-2003, 07:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
In Gulf War I, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Gulf War II we used shells and ammunition made out of uranium waste (because they pierce armor like it's melted butter), which contains plutonium. <hr /></blockquote> Well this is interesting. Did your sociology class offer you some sort of bibliography containing the articles referenced for the above quote? LOL, I worked on the anti-tank missile programs, after checking back with some past co-workers, none agree with your assessment (I am only referring to the weapons that would pertain to your "pierce armor" comment). I will admit, I worked on the seeker/tracking section of the missiles I have complete access to all P/L's. Uranium waste was not listed as best we could all remember. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
During Afghanistan, our country stood by as members of the Northern Alliance (rebel Afghan fighters) broke the Geneva Convention and brutally tortured and killed thousands of Taliban POW's. Many were stuffed into the backs of large trucks and driven across the hot desert for days without food or water. Some of the prisoners who survived managed this by scraping wounds into the dead around them and drinking their blood. <hr /></blockquote> Oooops. Some must have gotten away. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif So, since you learned this in your sociology class, can you please point the way to the articles which contained this information?

[ QUOTE ]
Get this- After World War II, the cost to rebuild all of Europe after inflation today was roughly $50 Billion. Bush wants $87 Billion to rebuild Iraq. <hr /></blockquote> Yup, and bottles of coke used to be a nickel and they are now 50 cents at the very least.

[ QUOTE ]
After this war, every country that had any anti-American sentiment now holds that sentiment 10-fold. <font color="blue"> How many of these same countries will swallow this anti-American sentiment and ask the US for help when they are in need? Will you be here on the board, praising the US government when we do offer help and support to other countries? or are you just going to find the bad in everything? </font color>

He's gotten our country into a mess, <font color="blue"> Pure and utter BS. A group of Muslims has started this. Ashcanistan was not on his list of countries to blow up when he came to power. </font color>

and made us look like a big bully. <font color="blue"> He showed the rest of the world that the US no longer will sit back and let other countries do whatever they want. Clinton did exactly this when the first WTC bombing happened. Bush has changed that. The US is no longer sitting back and letting things happen to it. </font color>

I remember hearing one of Bush's speeches a few years ago, talking about how all he wanted was peace in the world. All he has done since he took office was cause war. <font color="blue"> Could you remind us why the first war started??? Was it Bush's fault??? </font color>

What ever happened to Osama Bin Laden? <font color="blue"> Running scared like a little sissy. When the rest of his goons were out fighting, he ran and hid. Does that sound like the mighty leader he used to be. I don't think so. </font color>

What about Saddam Hussein? <font color="blue"> What about him? Is he in control of the country he once tortured? Are his murderous sons still alive and torturing innocent people? C'mon what about Saddam Hussein? Because he has not been killed yet, DOES THAT MEAN FAILURE???? He is no longer in control, I guess that is not good enough for you. </font color>

But hey, nobody is perfect. <font color="blue"> You said it first, just please let me agree. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif </font color> <hr /></blockquote> Just to note...Bush senior failed to remove Saddam from control, likewise did Clinton. Clinton also sat around after the first WTC bombing. Then when given the chance to remove Osama from the face of the earth, Clinton did not want to be bothered. IIRC, He was playing golf.

How about when Clinton went after Milosevic? He was removed from power. That was great. The only problem with that, was that the US military was mowing down churches and schools in the process. Go and read some stories about General Clark. He was in charge of a lot of this needless killing.

No President is perfect, and none have done everything they said they would. Clinton was a very popular President around the world, however it came at the cost of American security. Bush is very unpopular around the world because he does what he says, and did not back down. I am proud we finally have a President with a backbone leading this country.

Here is a hypothetical question for you to ask your sociology professor...What would have happened to America...Where would America be right now if Gore was President? I shudder to think...

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
11-07-2003, 07:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr>
...After the genocide took place, after 800,000 men, women, and children were slaughtered, President Clinton went to Rwanda to make an apology, acknowledging that it was genocide, and that our country should have acted. ...

<font color="blue">Your prof actually said something bad about Clinton? I think that gives him/her a bit of credibility, even though he/she obviously hates America /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>


In Gulf War I, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Gulf War II we used shells and ammunition made out of uranium waste (because they pierce armor like it's melted butter), which contains plutonium. Plutonium is one of the most toxic substances on earth. It was exposure to radiation from used ammo and shells made out of this that caused Gulf War Syndrome,

<font color="blue">This is a new one. I would like to see proof. </font color>

After the first Gulf War, many Iraqis attempted to rise up against Saddam, with the promise of support from the USA. They were all slaughtered by Saddam's superior army (supposedly weakened), including many of their families. Our country backed out at the last minute and left them hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned.

<font color="blue">Agreed. A stupid, tragic mistake by Bush 41. </font color>

During Afghanistan, our country stood by as members of the Northern Alliance (rebel Afghan fighters) broke the Geneva Convention and brutally tortured and killed thousands

<font color="blue">thousands? Our country "stood by" because we only had a couple hundred guys in the whole damn country. We simply could not control all those prisoners and had to have the help of the Northern Alliance.

This is the second time this has come lately up so I'll try to explain this briefly. Traditionally in Afghanistan, a defeated warrior will lay down his weapon and submit to his conqueror or the conqueror will just take his weapon and send him home. The Taliban and especially Al-Quaeda didn't do that. They would fight to the death, as witnessed in the prison uprising when Johnny Spann was killed. That's why they were locked in containers. </font color>

of Taliban POW's. Many were stuffed into the backs of large trucks and driven across the hot desert for days without food or water.

<font color="blue">Has your prof mentioned anything about the good things USA has done, like say, for instance, feeding half of the world? Or is it all negative? Just curious. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>


<hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
11-07-2003, 08:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>
LOL, I worked on the anti-tank missile programs, after checking back with some past co-workers, none agree with your assessment (I am only referring to the weapons that would pertain to your "pierce armor" comment).

<font color="blue">I've handled one of those depleted uranium projectiles. Maybe that's what's wrong with my brain /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>
He showed the rest of the world that the US no longer will sit back and let other countries do whatever they want. Clinton did exactly this when the first WTC bombing happened. Bush has changed that. The US is no longer sitting back and letting things happen to it.

<font color="blue">There's a new sheriff in town boys /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>

</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

nhp
11-07-2003, 08:41 AM
Actually my instructor didn't tell any of this to our class, we watched some documentaries, two of them aired on television in the last few years. I forgot the names of the documentaries, but I will gladly get the names next Thursday when I have class. You might be a little surprised when you see the one about Iraq, because most of the video is interviews of high ranking US military officials, some former chiefs of foreign policy, and alot of UN officials talking about the uranium.

I don't want you to get me wrong here, I did not mean to come off as anti-American, in fact I love my country, but I feel that the leaders of our country have made some poor decisions. I myself served in the US Army, and I have nothing but respect and blessings for our troops. It is those who are in control of what goes on that make bad decisions.

What really bothers me is people who sit at home in their comfy chairs in their cosy homes, ignoring and denying some terrible things that have happened. Hey, as long as none of that "bad stuff" affects you in any direct way, no problem, rock on Bush! Hey, we're doing a great job in Iraq! Just go tell that to the soldiers over there right now enduring a living hell. Meet my friend who just came home from Iraq after suffering an injury from shrapnel. Ask him how he feels about our country's belonging over there. Then ask him what all of his fellow soldiers think. It's all the same thing- WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE GONE THERE. But hey, as long as I got this nice comfy chair everything is all good. You see, people like yourself all do two things when it comes to issues like this, you either ignore it, or deny it. Wake up! The world doesn't revolve around you.

nhp
11-07-2003, 08:51 AM
By the way, there was an organization created for Gulf War I veterans who suffered from Gulf War Syndrome. This organization was created because the military was denying treatment for the veterans who were sick from this. Ask them about the shells made from uranium, ask them if they were exposed to radiation after rummaging through destroyed enemy tanks and strongholds looking for souveneirs. I am wondering if this is the only way you might become more open minded.

eg8r
11-07-2003, 09:05 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ask them about the shells made from uranium, <hr /></blockquote> I am asking you. You are the one that brought it up.

[ QUOTE ]
Ask them about the shells made from uranium, ask them if they were exposed to radiation after rummaging through destroyed enemy tanks and strongholds looking for souveneirs. <hr /></blockquote> Pillaging???? From your descriptions, I would say they were not doing their job.

eg8r

nhp
11-07-2003, 09:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr>
...After the genocide took place, after 800,000 men, women, and children were slaughtered, President Clinton went to Rwanda to make an apology, acknowledging that it was genocide, and that our country should have acted. ...

<font color="blue">Your prof actually said something bad about Clinton? I think that gives him/her a bit of credibility, even though he/she obviously hates America /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>


In Gulf War I, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Gulf War II we used shells and ammunition made out of uranium waste (because they pierce armor like it's melted butter), which contains plutonium. Plutonium is one of the most toxic substances on earth. It was exposure to radiation from used ammo and shells made out of this that caused Gulf War Syndrome,

<font color="blue">This is a new one. I would like to see proof. </font color>

After the first Gulf War, many Iraqis attempted to rise up against Saddam, with the promise of support from the USA. They were all slaughtered by Saddam's superior army (supposedly weakened), including many of their families. Our country backed out at the last minute and left them hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned.

<font color="blue">Agreed. A stupid, tragic mistake by Bush 41. </font color>

During Afghanistan, our country stood by as members of the Northern Alliance (rebel Afghan fighters) broke the Geneva Convention and brutally tortured and killed thousands

<font color="blue">thousands? Our country "stood by" because we only had a couple hundred guys in the whole damn country. We simply could not control all those prisoners and had to have the help of the Northern Alliance.

This is the second time this has come lately up so I'll try to explain this briefly. Traditionally in Afghanistan, a defeated warrior will lay down his weapon and submit to his conqueror or the conqueror will just take his weapon and send him home. The Taliban and especially Al-Quaeda didn't do that. They would fight to the death, as witnessed in the prison uprising when Johnny Spann was killed. That's why they were locked in containers. </font color>

of Taliban POW's. Many were stuffed into the backs of large trucks and driven across the hot desert for days without food or water.

<font color="blue">Has your prof mentioned anything about the good things USA has done, like say, for instance, feeding half of the world? Or is it all negative? Just curious. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>


<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Your assumption about the Taliban fighting to the death is not true. Many of them fled, many of them surrendered once they were outnumbered. Many of the Al Quaida did fight to the death, but they are not the same as the Taliban, the Taliban were only sympathizers for Islamic extremists, although they had laws which were extremly brutal and primitive.

You must also realize that the US does not help countries unless there is a greater benefit in it for us. Just because there would be no benefit for the US going to Rwanda and stopping the slaughter of 800,000 civilians is exactly the reason why a spokesperson for the White House called what was going on everything BUT genocide, and when informed that many people were calling it genocide, she decided to fumble with the definition of genocide. After Gulf War I, we imposed sanctions on Iraq. Sanctions that caused hundreds of thousands of Iraqis to starve to death over the past decade.

Look, if you really think we invaded Iraq in the first Gulf War because Iraq "invaded" Kuwait, you gotta wake up. We went to Iraq for oil. Many people lost their lives, because we wanted something. Something that made people over here richer. Something that bought some people nice houses, nice cars, some nice alcohol, some nice prostitutes, whatever. We used Iraq's supposed invasion of Kuwait as a scapegoat for greed.

Am I glad Saddam was recently ousted from power in Iraq? Hell yes, and I hope he rots in hell. However, the way we went about it was through death and destruction. There could have been a political alternative to the first Gulf War, but how could a few politicians sent over there carry home millions of gallons of oil?

Hey, just curious, are you glad our country bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945?

nhp
11-07-2003, 09:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Ask them about the shells made from uranium, <hr /></blockquote> I am asking you. You are the one that brought it up.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Ask them about the shells made from uranium, ask them if they were exposed to radiation after rummaging through destroyed enemy tanks and strongholds looking for souveneirs. <hr /></blockquote> Pillaging???? From your descriptions, I would say they were not doing their job.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Like I said, I'll post up the names of the documentaries next week, so you can watch them for yourself. There is also some footage of US soldiers searching tanks, vehicles, etc. that they destroyed either for survivors or souveniers just to answer your question about "pillaging".

nhp
11-07-2003, 09:28 AM
"The US is no longer sitting back and letting things happen to it."

"There's a new sheriff in town boys "

No offense, but these two statements are by far the stupidest f***ing things I've read this whole year.

Wally_in_Cincy
11-07-2003, 09:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
Your assumption about the Taliban fighting to the death is not true. Many of them fled, many of them surrendered once they were outnumbered. Many of the Al Quaida did fight to the death, but they are not the same as the Taliban, the Taliban were only sympathizers for Islamic extremists, although they had laws which were extremly brutal and primitive.

<font color="blue">OK. Perhaps I should not have lumped the Taliban in with Al-Quaeda. The prison uprising was Al-Quaeda. I read a book about that war. I'll review it this wekend. </font color>

You must also realize that the US does not help countries unless there is a greater benefit in it for us. Just because there would be no benefit for the US going to Rwanda and stopping the slaughter of 800,000 civilians

<font color="blue">Perhaps we should have done something. But any of our soldiers died btutal horrific deaths at the hands of those animals, then there would be folks who would say we've got no business there. No easy solution there. </font color>

After Gulf War I, we imposed sanctions on Iraq.

<font color="blue">And what was the alternative? </font color>

Sanctions that caused hundreds of thousands of Iraqis to starve to death over the past decade.

<font color="blue">Wrong. Saddam caused those deaths. He was spending his oil money on guns and palaces instead of food and medicine. </font color>

Look, if you really think we invaded Iraq in the first Gulf War because Iraq "invaded" Kuwait, you gotta wake up. We went to Iraq for oil.

<font color="blue">I am wide awake thank you /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. We went there because we assumed he would try to take over Saudi Arabia next. If that had happened he would have had an economic chokehold on the oil-dependent world. This was simply an unacceptable alternative. </font color>

Many people lost their lives, because we wanted something. Something that made people over here richer. Something that bought some people nice houses, nice cars, some nice alcohol, some nice prostitutes, whatever. We used Iraq's supposed invasion of Kuwait as a scapegoat for greed.

<font color="blue">See above. </font color>

Am I glad Saddam was recently ousted from power in Iraq? Hell yes, and I hope he rots in hell. However, the way we went about it was through death and destruction. There could have been a political alternative to the first Gulf War,

<font color="blue">12 years we tried that. We even offered to let Saddam go into exile with all his money and he didn't. He didn't leave us a whole lot of alternatives. </font color>

but how could a few politicians sent over there carry home millions of gallons of oil?

<font color="blue">whatever </font color>

Hey, just curious, are you glad our country bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945?

<font color="blue">I'm not glad. Once again we had no good alternative. Better to drop the bombs than have a million GI's die in an invasion. You said you support the soldiers right?

The Japanese were bloodthirsty bastards. I know Gayle in MD doesn't like to hear that but it's true. Read sometime about what they did in China. </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
11-07-2003, 09:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> "The US is no longer sitting back and letting things happen to it."

"There's a new sheriff in town boys "

No offense, but these two statements are by far the stupidest f***ing things I've read this whole year. <hr /></blockquote>

Why thank you /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Coming from an America-hater I'll take that as a compliment /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hey I was trying to keep this civil. You come back with a profane insult. Bad manners.

Hope this helps /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Iowashark
11-07-2003, 10:06 AM
Let's try to make this really simple before Q comes in with a pointless article.

Did we go into Iraq for the right reasons?
Maybe not

So does this mean the war shouldn't have happened?
The war happened because of one sure thing....it was necessary. Whether we stated the correct reasons at first for going, doesn't matter. There were countless reasons to go into Iraq. Anybody that doesn't feel safer in their 'comfy chairs' sitting at home is too busy hating Bush for the wrong reasons.

Dave~~~~definitely feels safer in his comfy chair.

Iowashark
11-07-2003, 10:08 AM
Oh yeah, and had Gore been elected president...I'd have moved to Canada a long time ago.

11-07-2003, 10:46 AM
I am assuming he is refering to depleted uranium ammunition. Here are a few links. There are countless other, just do a search for depleted uranium.

http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/du.htm

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/du.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/europe/2001/depleted_uranium/default.stm

/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

11-07-2003, 10:58 AM
Canada Rocks.

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Qtec
11-07-2003, 11:09 AM
Thank you for saving me the time.

If eg8r doesnt know about this its because he doesnt want to know or he HAS to deny it because of where he works.

This is common knowledge.

Q

Qtec
11-07-2003, 11:13 AM
800,000 is peanuts compared to the 'war that never happened'. Millions died in the Iran- Iraq war, that the US had a hand in.

Check it out.

Q

BTW, it would help your case[ not with Wally or eg8r of course /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif] if you would back your point with sources.

Wally_in_Cincy
11-07-2003, 11:18 AM
What I read in those seemed inconclusive.

eg8r
11-07-2003, 11:25 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, I'll post up the names of the documentaries next week, so you can watch them for yourself. <hr /></blockquote> I am not interested in hearing them repeat what you have posted. I am interested in where they got their facts. I am guessing that will be tough to find. In that case, I take it with a grain of salt. You seem to be taking it for fact. Do you believe everything you hear?

eg8r

eg8r
11-07-2003, 11:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No offense, but these two statements are by far the stupidest ******* things I've read this whole year. <hr /></blockquote> (removed the childish language). This quote proves you do not read much. You might want to start looking into what the Dems have to offer and then revisit this post. You might find some good stuff. As far as your response, keep it in the playground. You state something is stupid and then post nothing to support why you stated it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif How intelligent is that.

eg8r

eg8r
11-07-2003, 11:36 AM
After reading your post, I think you have been asleep for the past 12 years. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Then one day woke up, read some liberal journal and learned that we bombed the crap out of Iraq, so that we could have their oil. UMMMMMM, we do not have their oil, so what do you base that opinion on?

[ QUOTE ]
Am I glad Saddam was recently ousted from power in Iraq? Hell yes, and I hope he rots in hell. However, the way we went about it was through death and destruction. There could have been a political alternative to the first Gulf War, but how could a few politicians sent over there carry home millions of gallons of oil?
<hr /></blockquote> This is pure and utter ignorance. Go back 12 or so years and read the resolutions. The UN sat back and tried to solve this problem politically. The problem is that criminals do not abide by the rules. Sooner or later you will learn that.

eg8r

Qtec
11-07-2003, 11:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Iowashark:</font><hr> Let's try to make this really simple before Q comes in with a pointless article. <font color="red"> Hey! I heard that. </font color>

Did we go into Iraq for the right reasons?
Maybe not

So does this mean the war shouldn't have happened?
The war happened because of one sure thing....it was necessary. <font color="red"> Thats not a sure thing. </font color> Whether we stated the correct reasons at first for going, doesn't matter. <font color="red"> The end justify's the means?</font color> There were countless reasons to go into Iraq. Anybody that doesn't feel safer in their 'comfy chairs' sitting at home is too busy hating Bush for the wrong reasons. <font color="red"> What are the right reasons. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>

Dave~~~~definitely feels safer in his comfy chair. <hr /></blockquote>


<font color="red"> Not everybody has a comfy chair. Has it ever occured to you that although , sitting on your island you may feel safer[ God knows why]the rest of the world is an easy target? There are ways to do things and ways to do things. The US/Britain have acted on impulse with no real plan on what to do after they deposed saddam. Young Americans are now paying the price for their incompetence.

</font color>

Q

eg8r
11-07-2003, 11:50 AM
According to those websites, there was DU present.

This is an article (http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Apr1999/b04151999_bt170-99.html) that states nothing has happened because of it.

Are there any articles out there that state that people are sick and the sickness is directly related to DU? I am not searching, but trying to help you out in your defense. You really should learn how to set this up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

11-07-2003, 11:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]

What I read in those seemed inconclusive.
<hr /></blockquote>

Never claimed they were conclusive. Just posted the links as a reference point. There are countless other sites out there that debate the depleted uranium issue.

eg8r
11-07-2003, 11:57 AM
[ QUOTE ]
There are ways to do things and ways to do things. The US/Britain have acted on impulse with no real <font color="red"> plan </font color> on what to do after they deposed saddam. <hr /></blockquote> Q, I have been waiting patiently for you to mention this (highlighted in red). This is liberal mantra that has started to spread. It appears that the liberals have noticed that they are losing the fight in arguing the legitimacy of the war. So they have decided to argue on a different front. They feel a <font color="red">"plan" </font color> would better help them understand what is going on and how we will wrap this up. It is hilarious to hear them backtrack all over the news. You don't hear much more about going to war "for the wrong reasons", that wasn't working. Now they are all saying, we went to war but there "was no plan". Q, your posts are no more than liberal regurgitation. Whatever is hot in the media, and you come here and spew it out. Funny to see you backtracking just as fast as they are. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r

eg8r
11-07-2003, 11:59 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Never claimed they were conclusive. <hr /></blockquote> What a joke! You never claimed to believe it either. Sounds like you are trying to humor the board. So, what other jokes do you know?

eg8r

11-07-2003, 12:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Are there any articles out there that state that people are sick and the sickness is directly related to DU? I am not searching, but trying to help you out in your defense. You really should learn how to set this up.
<hr /></blockquote>

Help me out in my defense? Haha... I made no arguement in my original message. You should really discuss the benefits of xanax with your psychiatrist, might settle you down a lil' bit mr. "everyone's out to get me." Nothing like having discourse with paranoid individuals.

[ QUOTE ]
What a joke! You never claimed to believe it either. Sounds like you are trying to humor the board. So, what other jokes do you know?
<hr /></blockquote>

Haha... As for jokes... your funny, in the life goes on "corky" sort of way.

I simply presented the links for reference reasons as NHP seemed unable to present any sort of documentation.

eg8r
11-07-2003, 12:05 PM
You are right. I never read the name of the person that made the post. I thought the orignator of the thread had posted that. Now that I see it is you, I noticed that it was a joke. You are the joke, and your name shows just how funny a character you are.

eg8r

11-07-2003, 12:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You are right. I never read the name of the person that made the post. I thought the orignator of the thread had posted that. Now that I see it is you, I noticed that it was a joke. You are the joke, and your name shows just how funny a character you are.
<hr /></blockquote>

HAHAHA. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
11-07-2003, 12:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote thenewmessiah:</font><hr>
...your funny, in the life goes on "corky" sort of way....

<hr /></blockquote>

That's not nice. Reminds me of Al Gore's "extra chromosome" comment a few years back. If he had been a Republican the media would have been in a major tizzy.

nhp
11-07-2003, 12:22 PM
You brought this argument to the playground by calling me anti-American. Because I disagree with our country's foreign policy, I am anti-American? Grow up. Wow, I used a curse word, and censored the four letters myself. A curse word, ever heard one used? Sorry if I hurt your innocent eyes.

Now lets take a look back and see what's going on in this thread. I made a topic, asking what your opinions on foreign policy are. I listed things I had learned in documentaries in one of my college courses. You both immediately thought I am anti-American, denied everything I said WITHOUT giving your own sources, (except for "I called some buddies who worked for such and such") accused my teacher of putting this horrible information in my head, and avoided my remarks about what soldiers in Iraq think about the war.

The documentary on Iraq gave interviews of gulf war veterans, some former high ranking military officers and NCO's, some high ranking representatives of certain departments in the USA and other countries, all giving their full names and duties, all saying the same exact thing as I said in my first post. The only way I can give you sources, is to give you the name of the documentary, and to have you watch it yourself. Notice I said that I will find out the name of the documentary when I see my teacher next, yet you repeatedly ask me for sources when I already explained....This leads me to believe that either you are too afraid to watch the documentary because it might shatter your incredibly pathetic (but comfortable) illusions about what this country does on foreign policies, or that you are so thick-headed that you cannot comprehend any wrongdoing by our nation. I'll bet you also think racism and oppression don't exist in our country anymore. The thought that there are people who ignore things like that is repulsive.

As for Hiroshima- Yes, it was a good idea we stopped ourself from imminent invasion from Japan, Germany had already surrendered, and Japan was on the verge of surrender, but I guess in your mind surrender means the same thing as blood-thirsty invasion.
It is a known fact, hell, IT WAS ON THE HISTORY CHANNEL about a month ago that the reason why we dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was to show our superiority to the Russians. It is well documented that Japan was on the verge of surrender before we dropped the bombs.

Oh no, call me anti-American again! Because I think nuking a bunch of innocent civilians is wrong, I am anti-American!

My FATHER is a veteran of World War II, (yes he is very old to have a 23 year old son), he fought in the Battle of the Bulge, one of the bloodiest battles of that war. He was captured and served as a POW for 3 months in Germany. Guess what? HE AGREES WITH ME. Does that make him un-American? Apparently disagreeing with anything our country has done is un-American to you.

and LOL! Saddam starving those who did not support him in the war is not a result of the war we created? You think Saddam got rid of all the medicine for hospitals? Wrong again! Our sanctions prevented them from receiving medicine! In fact, we had weapons inspectors practically empty some hospitals of medicine, with suspicion they could be used to develop chemical weapons.

Which reminds me, WE HAVE NOT FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ, don't forget.

11-07-2003, 12:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That's not nice. Reminds me of Al Gore's "extra chromosome" comment a few years back. If he had been a Republican the media would have been in a major tizzy.
<hr /></blockquote>

Ahh... Republicans Democrats... There both the same. One day Trent Lott's praising dixiecrats, the next day Howard Dean is kissing confederate butt.

eg8r
11-07-2003, 12:32 PM
I don't think I called you Anti-American. If you could please find that quote for me and I might apologize. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

All I asked for was some sort of proof. Anything. That should be easy. I am willing to wait until your next class on Thursday. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
11-07-2003, 12:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> You brought this argument to the playground by calling me anti-American. Because I disagree with our country's foreign policy, I am anti-American?

<font color="blue">Actually I called your prof an America-hater first. Then when I called you that I was actually kidding. I took a shot because you said my comment was f**ing stupid. </font color>

Grow up. Wow, I used a curse word, and censored the four letters myself. A curse word, ever heard one used? Sorry if I hurt your innocent eyes.

<font color="blue">It's been rough but I'm almost over it now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>


Now lets take a look back and see what's going on in this thread. I made a topic, asking what your opinions on foreign policy are. I listed things I had learned in documentaries in one of my college courses. You both immediately thought I am anti-American,

<font color="blue">see above </font color>

denied everything I said WITHOUT giving your own sources, (except for "I called some buddies who worked for such and such")

<font color="blue">I read a lot but this depleted uranium is new to me. Guess I missed it. Maybe because I don't listen to NPR anymore /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>

accused my teacher of putting this horrible information in my head,

<font color="blue">Well that does happen you must admit. Perhaps that was the basis for my assumption. </font color>

and avoided my remarks about what soldiers in Iraq think about the war.

<font color="blue">A lot of soldiers complain. I'm sure they don't want to be there. </font color>

The documentary on Iraq gave interviews of gulf war veterans, some former high ranking military officers and NCO's, some high ranking representatives of certain departments in the USA and other countries, all giving their full names and duties, all saying the same exact thing as I said in my first post. The only way I can give you sources, is to give you the name of the documentary, and to have you watch it yourself.

<font color="blue">Fair enough </font color>

Notice I said that I will find out the name of the documentary when I see my teacher next, yet you repeatedly ask me for sources when I already explained....This leads me to believe that either you are too afraid to watch the documentary

<font color="blue">ain't skeered /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>

because it might shatter your incredibly pathetic (but comfortable) illusions about what this country does on foreign policies, or that you are so thick-headed that you cannot comprehend any wrongdoing by our nation.

<font color="blue">I'm no Pollyanna. I know this country has made mistakes. But compared to the rest of the world it's still the best. </font color>

I'll bet you also think racism and oppression don't exist in our country anymore. The thought that there are people who ignore things like that is repulsive.

<font color="blue">I'm not a rascist and I don't oppress anybody. I don't ignore it, I just don't think about it a whole lot. Is that bad? </font color>

As for Hiroshima- Yes, it was a good idea we stopped ourself from imminent invasion from Japan, Germany had already surrendered, and Japan was on the verge of surrender, but I guess in your mind surrender means the same thing as blood-thirsty invasion.
It is a known fact, hell, IT WAS ON THE HISTORY CHANNEL about a month ago that the reason why we dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was to show our superiority to the Russians.

<font color="blue">Sounds like an opinoin. They presented this as a fact? </font color>

It is well documented that Japan was on the verge of surrender before we dropped the bombs.

<font color="blue">I don't know about that. </font color>

Oh no, call me anti-American again! Because I think nuking a bunch of innocent civilians is wrong, I am anti-American!

My FATHER is a veteran of World War II, (yes he is very old to have a 23 year old son), he fought in the Battle of the Bulge, one of the bloodiest battles of that war. He was captured and served as a POW for 3 months in Germany. Guess what? HE AGREES WITH ME. Does that make him un-American? Apparently disagreeing with anything our country has done is un-American to you.

and LOL! Saddam starving those who did not support him in the war is not a result of the war we created?

<font color="blue">What war did we create? Please enlighten me. </font color>

You think Saddam got rid of all the medicine for hospitals? Wrong again! Our sanctions prevented them from receiving medicine!

<font color="blue">That is not true. </font color>

In fact, we had weapons inspectors practically empty some hospitals of medicine, with suspicion they could be used to develop chemical weapons.

<font color="blue">Let's just say I am skeptical of this. </font color>

Which reminds me, WE HAVE NOT FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ, don't forget.

<font color="blue">Not yet /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

They gotta be there somewhere. After all, Clinton, Kennedy, Berger and Albright said they were there when Bill was President.</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

nhp
11-07-2003, 12:49 PM
It was Wally who called me anti-American.

now...
"The Department of Defense announced today the release of a RAND scientific literature review that indicates no evidence of harmful health effects directly linked to depleted uranium exposures at levels experienced by Gulf War veterans."

Read the first two words that start with the letter D above. The controversy about this is that it is a cover-up. Of course the Department of Defense is going to say there is nothing wrong. It is the Department of Defense who is in question here.

Go search for some interviews or articles of people who have actually suffered from Gulf War Syndrome who agree with the Department of Defense. You are not going to find anything like that.

Yes, for the last time I will get you the names of the documentaries, it is your responsibility to watch them and truthfully say how they really affected you.

11-07-2003, 01:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I read a lot but this depleted uranium is new to me. Guess I missed it. Maybe because I don't listen to NPR anymore <hr /></blockquote>

Here is an article concerning the recent lack of coverage in regards to depleted uranium.

http://www.fair.org/activism/tv-cluster-du.html

eg8r
11-07-2003, 01:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Go search for some interviews or articles of people who have actually suffered from Gulf War Syndrome who agree with the Department of Defense. You are not going to find anything like that. <hr /></blockquote> No sir, you are obviously new to this...You brought the subject up, so normally you would be the one to present the argument supported with fact. To say you believe it, and I should search for it, shows me you have no foundation to stand upon.

Good luck, look forward to debating with you in the future. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Kato
11-07-2003, 01:53 PM
I read a book by James Byron Huggins called "Hunter". It's a fictional book about a CIA experiment gone bad (go figure). Anyway in this book they sent out a hunting party and one of the hunters was a sniper that used a Barrett (sp) sniper rifle (I think maybe Marines use it). They mention using "depleted uranium shells" for stopping power. As you probably know many fictional books if researched well are based on facts. Sometimes these facts are embellished a little to make better copy of course but as a point of reference I've seen the term.

Kato~~~isn't arguing /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
11-07-2003, 02:09 PM
I've heard of depleted uranium projectiles, I've just never heard of them in regard to an illness being caused.

A feller in the pool hall had a DU projectile one night. He also had a 2" thick piece of steel with a hole clean thru it showing what that projectile would do.

I think he was an engineer on the M1 tank IIRC.

nhp
11-07-2003, 07:29 PM
Ya, you really rule a debate when your most common argument is "No, you go search for it!"

nhp
11-07-2003, 07:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> I've heard of depleted uranium projectiles, I've just never heard of them in regard to an illness being caused.

A feller in the pool hall had a DU projectile one night. He also had a 2" thick piece of steel with a hole clean thru it showing what that projectile would do.

I think he was an engineer on the M1 tank IIRC. <hr /></blockquote>

It's obvious the radiation exposure occurs when someone comes in contact with DUP after it has been fired.

cheesemouse
11-07-2003, 09:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> Ya, you really rule a debate when your most common argument is "No, you go search for it!" <hr /></blockquote>

nhp,

You quickly learn when trying to have a discussion with the Ed &amp; Wally( Mutt&amp; Jeff ) routine that it is not their goal to futher or progress the discussion but rather to turn it into an aurgument that they can relish some small pleasure from. They cannot appreciate information that doesn't fit the narrow minded little hell that they ive in; that hell being other people and their opinions.

They are kind of fun to jerk around though.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif...but the boredom sets in and then...YAWN...you get tired of the pre-recorded message and go on to something more stimulating...but have some fun util then....

Qtec
11-07-2003, 10:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
It appears that the liberals have noticed that they are losing the fight in arguing the legitimacy of the war <hr /></blockquote>

What are you talking about???????

Lets see.
Did Saddam have any WMD[ ie nuclear], NO.
Chemical weapons. NO.
Connected to Al Qaeda. NO
Any involvement in 9/11. NO.
Was there an imminent threat? NO.

GW has never given a legitimate reason for attacking Iraq without the backing of the UN, except to say that he was a 'bad man'!!! Powell was made to look foolish when all his so-called 'evidence'was shot down in flames when he tried to make the case for war at the UN Security council.

Do you remember when I told you that the Jessica Lynch , rescue, was a load of BS?
Quote "propoganda served up for Americans on breakfast tv".
All true. Now, instead of admitting to the truth, they throw in the word 'rape' to try and divert attention from the fact they lied and the whole thing was a publicity stunt.
The admin have been caught out constantly on their lies but you still, despite all the facts, are prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.



This was the plan.
"Lets go kick Saddam,s ass ,take over the country and the people will love us."
When the US took Bahgdad, they stood and watched the city being looted.
If you are in control you are responsible for law and order. All they needed to do was impose a curfew.

Truth is, there was no plan for after the fighting, except for who is getting the no-bid contracts. The state of affairs now shows that the whole Govt attitude and total lack of understanding is,in the eyes of the ordinary Arab,turning the US from Liberators to occupiers.

Q

Qtec
11-07-2003, 10:19 PM
No. Most, if not all, of the uranium varourizes on impact and then you breathe it in.

Q

nhp
11-08-2003, 06:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> You brought this argument to the playground by calling me anti-American. Because I disagree with our country's foreign policy, I am anti-American?

<font color="blue">Actually I called your prof an America-hater first. Then when I called you that I was actually kidding. I took a shot because you said my comment was f**ing stupid. </font color>

Grow up. Wow, I used a curse word, and censored the four letters myself. A curse word, ever heard one used? Sorry if I hurt your innocent eyes.

<font color="blue">It's been rough but I'm almost over it now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>


Now lets take a look back and see what's going on in this thread. I made a topic, asking what your opinions on foreign policy are. I listed things I had learned in documentaries in one of my college courses. You both immediately thought I am anti-American,

<font color="blue">see above </font color>

denied everything I said WITHOUT giving your own sources, (except for "I called some buddies who worked for such and such")

<font color="blue">I read a lot but this depleted uranium is new to me. Guess I missed it. Maybe because I don't listen to NPR anymore /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color>

accused my teacher of putting this horrible information in my head,

<font color="blue">Well that does happen you must admit. Perhaps that was the basis for my assumption. </font color>

and avoided my remarks about what soldiers in Iraq think about the war.

<font color="blue">A lot of soldiers complain. I'm sure they don't want to be there. </font color>

The documentary on Iraq gave interviews of gulf war veterans, some former high ranking military officers and NCO's, some high ranking representatives of certain departments in the USA and other countries, all giving their full names and duties, all saying the same exact thing as I said in my first post. The only way I can give you sources, is to give you the name of the documentary, and to have you watch it yourself.

<font color="blue">Fair enough </font color>

Notice I said that I will find out the name of the documentary when I see my teacher next, yet you repeatedly ask me for sources when I already explained....This leads me to believe that either you are too afraid to watch the documentary

<font color="blue">ain't skeered /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>

because it might shatter your incredibly pathetic (but comfortable) illusions about what this country does on foreign policies, or that you are so thick-headed that you cannot comprehend any wrongdoing by our nation.

<font color="blue">I'm no Pollyanna. I know this country has made mistakes. But compared to the rest of the world it's still the best. </font color>

I'll bet you also think racism and oppression don't exist in our country anymore. The thought that there are people who ignore things like that is repulsive.

<font color="blue">I'm not a rascist and I don't oppress anybody. I don't ignore it, I just don't think about it a whole lot. Is that bad? </font color>

As for Hiroshima- Yes, it was a good idea we stopped ourself from imminent invasion from Japan, Germany had already surrendered, and Japan was on the verge of surrender, but I guess in your mind surrender means the same thing as blood-thirsty invasion.
It is a known fact, hell, IT WAS ON THE HISTORY CHANNEL about a month ago that the reason why we dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was to show our superiority to the Russians.

<font color="blue">Sounds like an opinoin. They presented this as a fact? </font color>

It is well documented that Japan was on the verge of surrender before we dropped the bombs.

<font color="blue">I don't know about that. </font color>

Oh no, call me anti-American again! Because I think nuking a bunch of innocent civilians is wrong, I am anti-American!

My FATHER is a veteran of World War II, (yes he is very old to have a 23 year old son), he fought in the Battle of the Bulge, one of the bloodiest battles of that war. He was captured and served as a POW for 3 months in Germany. Guess what? HE AGREES WITH ME. Does that make him un-American? Apparently disagreeing with anything our country has done is un-American to you.

and LOL! Saddam starving those who did not support him in the war is not a result of the war we created?

<font color="blue">What war did we create? Please enlighten me. </font color>

You think Saddam got rid of all the medicine for hospitals? Wrong again! Our sanctions prevented them from receiving medicine!

<font color="blue">That is not true. </font color>

In fact, we had weapons inspectors practically empty some hospitals of medicine, with suspicion they could be used to develop chemical weapons.

<font color="blue">Let's just say I am skeptical of this. </font color>

Which reminds me, WE HAVE NOT FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ, don't forget.

<font color="blue">Not yet /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

They gotta be there somewhere. After all, Clinton, Kennedy, Berger and Albright said they were there when Bill was President.</font color> <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Now this type of arguing I don't mind, where you say what you believe rather than trying to personally attack me, in which of course I responded in kind.

Wally_in_Cincy
11-08-2003, 10:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr>
You quickly learn when trying to have a discussion with the Ed &amp; Wally( Mutt&amp; Jeff ) routine that it is not their goal to futher or progress the discussion but rather to turn it into an aurgument that they can relish some small pleasure from. ...<hr /></blockquote>

Just expressing my opinion. Sorry if I bore you /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

eg8r
11-10-2003, 06:58 AM
Your response shows that you did not really read what I wrote. I have no problem going out and doing a little searching to prove my point. You did not do any of it. What you did was state your view, and then ask me to search for it. Why should I search for something that will help solidify your point. You bring your facts to the discussion and then I will agree or refute. If the latter occurs then I will try to find something to defend my view.

You offered nothing as far as facts, just your opinion with the promise that facts are out there. You are lazy, and there has yet to be a debate. If you would rather not be forced to prove your point, then there is no reason to debate. It is like arguing with a little child over something and the best he (read you) can do is say BECAUSE.

eg8r

eg8r
11-10-2003, 07:01 AM
LOL. I stand by my original statment. You have switched views, and followed along like a little dog on a chain. You now want to see a plan. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r

nhp
11-10-2003, 08:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Your response shows that you did not really read what I wrote. I have no problem going out and doing a little searching to prove my point. You did not do any of it. What you did was state your view, and then ask me to search for it. Why should I search for something that will help solidify your point. You bring your facts to the discussion and then I will agree or refute. If the latter occurs then I will try to find something to defend my view.

You offered nothing as far as facts, just your opinion with the promise that facts are out there. You are lazy, and there has yet to be a debate. If you would rather not be forced to prove your point, then there is no reason to debate. It is like arguing with a little child over something and the best he (read you) can do is say BECAUSE.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Funny that you think using an article written by whom is in question is sufficient to back your opinion.

Well, I was going to let you build yourself up a little bit more before I showed you this, but what the hey /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif


I chose these 3 sites out of a few thousand I could have used.

*WARNING* The first site I list contains some disturbing images, so view at your own risk.*

http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/270800.stm

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/95178_du12.shtml

nhp
11-10-2003, 08:24 AM
How do you argue against something that so many people, including our own soldiers and health officials, are saying is true? The reason I asked you to search for yourself is I wanted to spare you from embarassing yourself, no lie. I tried to do you a favor, and you call me lazy, nice one. You are in this thread to try and discredit me, and embarass me. THAT IS NOT what I started this thread for. I made this thread because I feel what has happened is horrible. You don't give a [censored] about the aftermath of war, you blindly defend Bush at all costs. What is wrong with you?

Qtec
11-10-2003, 08:25 AM
Is this another example of 'revisionism'?

[ QUOTE ]
You don't hear much more about going to war "for the wrong reasons", that wasn't working <hr /></blockquote>???????

GW cannot give a legitimate reason and back it up with facts.
He never has done and he never will do.
That doesnt change the situation now in Iraq though.

Q

nhp
11-10-2003, 08:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> LOL. I stand by my original statment. You have switched views, and followed along like a little dog on a chain. You now want to see a plan. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Who are you talking about?

eg8r
11-10-2003, 10:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Funny that you think using an article written by whom is in question is sufficient to back your opinion. <font color="blue"> Which article are you referring to? </font color>

Well, I was going to let you build yourself up a little bit more before I showed you this, but what the hey <font color="blue"> Build myself up, what are you talking about. I am not building anything up. I simply asked that if you come with a statement, have some sort of reasonable backup for it. Don't just say, because I said so, or my teacher said so. It really is not my job to go look for information to prove YOUR point. You do the work. You have finally taken heed and did some homework. Did you read either of the final two articles before you posted them??? Both of them still cast doubt on the whole situation (the seattlepi article was interesting and that doctor near the end seems to have found proof). Thank you for the warning on the first one. </font color>

I chose these 3 sites out of a few thousand I could have used.
<hr /></blockquote> The Seattlepi.com website was pretty interesting. It is from Nov 12, 2002 so I wonder what Dr. Asaf Durakovic has come up with since. If there is proof of these people suffering from it, then I hope the government does something about it.

eg8r

eg8r
11-10-2003, 10:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The reason I asked you to search for yourself is I wanted to spare you from embarassing yourself, no lie. I tried to do you a favor, and you call me lazy, nice one. <font color="blue"> Oh please, no favors. There is no embarassment here. Prove your case and that is all there is to it. Come with information, not "well I heard this from my teacher". I am pretty open minded as long as there is evidence. (I hear snickers from the peanut gallery /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif ) </font color> You are in this thread to try and discredit me, and embarass me. <font color="blue"> Nope. I am in this thread because I disagreed with something you said. You might be taking this whole internet experience a bit too personal. </font color> THAT IS NOT what I started this thread for. I made this thread because I feel what has happened is horrible. You don't give a [censored] about the aftermath of war, you blindly defend Bush at all costs. <font color="blue"> Not true, but that is hard for me to prove. He has done some great things. As far as aftermath of war and defending Bush, aren't most of the issues you brought up, prior to Bush being President. Are you going to blame W for the DU in the Gulf War??? </font color> What is wrong with you? <font color="blue"> LOL. Lack of a good diet probably. I am sleepy all the time and...well, I guess you did not really mean my health. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif </font color> <hr /></blockquote>
eg8r

eg8r
11-10-2003, 10:50 AM
I am talking to Q. I might have a different view than you (in reference to the way the CCB is displayed on my computer).

eg8r

11-10-2003, 10:51 AM
Let's all fast for George W. Woohoo. Fasting is friggin' cool.

If you fast long enough, they'll give you a clear box and suspend you over your hometown...

http://www.heartlight.org/fast/

eg8r
11-10-2003, 10:55 AM
[ QUOTE ]
GW cannot give a legitimate reason and back it up with facts.
He never has done and he never will do.
That doesnt change the situation now in Iraq though.
<hr /></blockquote> Oh Q, you are trying to change what I was referring to. I am not talking about W, or Iraq...I am referring to the liberal media and their struggles to show Bush in a negative light. They (and you) have tried countless times to discredit him and the war with Iraq. It has not worked, the man still holds more public support than Clinton or his father did at this time in their career. The Dems are feeling some heat. So what happens now...The media quits talking about lack of WMD and international support, and now they want a "plan". Now, please send in your donation to the DNC and point them to this board so that you can show your support. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

#### leonard
11-10-2003, 07:20 PM
It is better to have one with a Brain.####

nhp
11-10-2003, 07:34 PM
I am referring to the article you put up a link to earlier by the Department of Defense.

How do my articles cast doubt on the situation? Simply because at the end some veterans and other people say they are outraged and disgusted with the cover-up by the Department of Defense? Despite tons of evidence, the Department of Defense says "Nope, nothin wrong with DU" so that casts doubt on the whole situation. Forget the Gulf War Veterans Association, forget the countless doctors and scientists, forget officials from NATO, forget those deformed babies.

You are by far one of the most close-minded people I have ever talked to. How, do you ask?

When there is the possibility they are wrong, before they make an argument, an open minded person searches for reasons behind the opposing person's argument. You didn't do that. You were hoping I didn't give you anything, because you like your comfy little world where you think our government has done nothing but saintly things.

And.....

"As far as aftermath of war and defending Bush, aren't most of the issues you brought up, prior to Bush being President. Are you going to blame W for the DU in the Gulf War???"

YOU DON'T GET IT, DO YOU? Despite what DU has done in the first Gulf War, in the Balkans, and a few other countries, Bush Jr. used DU again in Afghanistan, and the recent Gulf War. Sad.

eg8r
11-11-2003, 07:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
How do my articles cast doubt on the situation? <hr /></blockquote> Here is a paragraph taken from one article... [ QUOTE ]
Mr Rusling says: "Basically we have just been diagnosed with a bone disease...that is where depleted uranium finishes - in your bones. <hr /></blockquote> So there could be no other explanation at all for bone disease (My argument is weak, but so is Mr. Ruslings quote)? Even if it is true, this is no explanation whatsoever. No doctor would make this case or use this quote as a defense had they been on trial. Another inconclusive paragraph... [ QUOTE ]
In Iraq, there is no shortage of tragic stories about families whose children have a wide range of birth deformities.

Professor Selma Al-Tah, a paediatrician in Baghdad, believes her studies demonstrate a link with depleted uranium and the many terrible genetic defects.
"A lot of cases are really monsters. Some of them have no necks, their appearance or their facial appearance is completely distorted", she says.

No matter how many examples there are of terrible deformities or leukemia, Iraq's hospitals are so badly off that proving a link with depleted uranium will be difficult, if not impossible, without the proper resources.
<hr /></blockquote> C'mon. They have not come out with conclusive evidence yet. I am not saying it could not be true, I am saying there is no proof it is true. The DoD has a history of cover-ups, so I don't doubt this could be true, but if you are going to use an article as proof, grab one that does not cast doubt.

Here is a quote from the 3 article... [ QUOTE ]
Although the Pentagon has sent mixed signals about the effects of depleted uranium, Iraqi doctors believe that it is responsible for a significant increase in cancer and birth defects in the region. Many researchers outside Iraq, and several U.S. veterans organizations, agree; they also suspect depleted uranium of playing a role in Gulf War Syndrome, the still-unexplained malady that has plagued hundreds of thousands of Gulf War veterans.
<hr /></blockquote> This paragraph casts doubt. It is easy to see the word SUSPECT. That means there is no conclusive evidence, yet. [ QUOTE ]
Gulf War veterans faced a wide array of potentially toxic materials during the war: smoke from oil and chemical fires, insecticides, pesticides, vaccinations and DU.

Of the 696,778 troops who served during the recognized conflict phase (1990-1991) of the Gulf War, at least 20,6861 have applied for VA medical benefits. As of May 2002, 159,238 veterans have been awarded service-connected disability by the Department of Veterans Affairs for health effects collectively known as the Gulf War Syndrome.

There have been many studies on Gulf War Syndrome over the years, as well as on possible long-term health hazards of DU munitions. Most have been inconclusive.
<hr /></blockquote> There is a lot more in the air than uranium-filled dust. The article itself has said most was inconclusive. The article does go on to talk about another way of testing the people and it does shine some light on the subject but all in all the article casts doubt.

Since there are thousands out there, I figure you would have read the few you offered as proof. I am sure there are more out there that would help you better defend the position. As far as where I stand, I now believe that this could have happened, however just a bunch of sick people who were exposed to a ton more other stuff is not a very strong case.

[ QUOTE ]
an open minded person searches for reasons behind the opposing person's argument. <hr /></blockquote> LOL, you have never been more wrong. IMHO, an open minded person is willing to listen to another persons opinion based on good fact. You have provided none. Once again, it is not my business to search for proof of your argument. Did you ever take a debate class? How did you do? Did you forget everything you learned?

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't do that. You were hoping I didn't give you anything, because you like your comfy little world where you think our government has done nothing but saintly things. <hr /></blockquote> Wrong. I was hoping you would be able to provide me with some good information and not some second hand stuff you learned in sociology class.

[ QUOTE ]
YOU DON'T GET IT, DO YOU? <hr /></blockquote> Nope. As far as the two articles that you have provided, there is too much doubt to believe it all. I definitely believe they "could" be true, but there is no definitive proof. The articles you provided use the words "believe" and "suspect" and both are hardly concrete.

eg8r

eg8r
11-11-2003, 07:11 AM
LOL, this is coming from the guy who thinks the Kennedy's were all saints.

eg8r

nhp
11-11-2003, 08:01 AM
LOL, what else is in the air? Dust and sand. Dust and sand is everywhere, and there have been no reported cases of Gulf War Syndrome caused by dust and sand.

Why are you getting so technical with the words? The people who wrote these articles are forced to use those kinds of words or else the articles would be called bias, and therefore be unreliable sources. Notice when you watch the news, the news anchors can never say anything leaning in the direction of either side of a story. They use the word SUSPECT quite alot, even when pointing out the obvious.

Notice that the people who are accusing the DoD are not only one particular group of people. They are veterans, soldiers, UN officials, civilians from Iraq, the Balkans, and Afghanistan. They all are saying the same thing, pointing to DU. The DoD is never going to admit it, therefore people who report for any public media organization are forced to use the word SUSPECT. I don't know why I am explaining this to you, it's pretty obvious.

What's the big deal about debating? Yes I took a debate class, I got a C (I was 18 in my first year of college, gimme a break lol). I'm not trying to out-debate you, I'm just trying to tell you what the hell is going on in this world.

Open minded people do not have to see something before their eyes in order to believe it. They take all things into consideration before making a judgement. Close-minded believe what they can't see isn't real. They quickly make judgements based only on what they know, they do not bother to seek out further information on a subject since they are not interested in change. I think you fit that category quite well /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

nhp
11-11-2003, 08:02 AM
Who thinks the Kennedys were all saints?

11-11-2003, 08:13 AM
[ QUOTE ]
LOL, what else is in the air? Dust and sand. Dust and sand is everywhere, and there have been no reported cases of Gulf War Syndrome caused by dust and sand. <hr /></blockquote>

The President of United States is the supreme leader of our nation. If he says we go to war, we go to war. We gotta set things like Gulf War Sybdrome and casualties aside for the sake of democracy. Have you ever heard of the word "sacrifice?"

Do you think we could have really won WWII without dropping the big ones on Japan? Nope. Sometimes you've got to destroy things before you can set them straight on the path to true democracy.

eg8r
11-11-2003, 08:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]
LOL, what else is in the air? Dust and sand. Dust and sand is everywhere, and there have been no reported cases of Gulf War Syndrome caused by dust and sand.
<hr /></blockquote> I am glad you saw the humor in this sentence before you wrote it. I did not want to have to point it out for you.

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you getting so technical with the words? The people who wrote these articles are forced to use those kinds of words or else the articles would be called bias, and therefore be unreliable sources. <hr /></blockquote> Um, yeah whatever. If an article is FACT based, then there is no bias.
[ QUOTE ]
Notice when you watch the news, the news anchors can never say anything leaning in the direction of either side of a story. <hr /></blockquote> This is only true when the TRUTH is not already known as fact. Example would be a peson that committed murder. He is a suspected murderer until he is proven guilty. At that point nothing is "suspected" anymore.

[ QUOTE ]
What's the big deal about debating? Yes I took a debate class, I got a C (I was 18 in my first year of college, gimme a break lol). I'm not trying to out-debate you, I'm just trying to tell you what the hell is going on in this world.
<hr /></blockquote> I am not trying to make it a contest. You are missing the point. When you decide you want to enter into a discussion (debate) and offer your point of view and state it as fact, then it is YOUR responsibility to prove. It is not my responsibility to hunt around and see if you are telling the truth. Do your own homework.

[ QUOTE ]
Open minded people do not have to see something before their eyes in order to believe it. <hr /></blockquote> It sounds like you are defining open minded as those having faith, and this I disagree. You are darn right, you have to prove something before I believe it. My faith is in God.

[ QUOTE ]
I think you fit that category quite well <hr /></blockquote>
Alrighty. I guess our definitions of open and closed minded people will be a barrier.

eg8r

eg8r
11-11-2003, 08:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Who thinks the Kennedys were all saints? <hr /></blockquote> You might want to rethink the way you have the forums displayed to your monitor. This the second time you have replied without knowing who I was referring to. I posted that statement as a reply to ####.

eg8r

nhp
11-11-2003, 08:54 AM
"This is only true when the TRUTH is not already known as fact. Example would be a peson that committed murder. He is a suspected murderer until he is proven guilty. At that point nothing is "suspected" anymore."

Thank you for proving my point...
You should have realized that none of these accusations against the DoD can become facts until this is taken to court and proven. Therefore nothing you read can be fact based, yet you still are asking for facts...so, um, yeah, whatever, as you put it.

"I am not trying to make it a contest. You are missing the point. When you decide you want to enter into a discussion (debate) and offer your point of view and state it as fact, then it is YOUR responsibility to prove. It is not my responsibility to hunt around and see if you are telling the truth. Do your own homework."

Hey, ditto to you. If you're gonna make an argument stop being a hypocrite and do YOUR own homework. You chose to argue, I didn't drag you to your computer. Sense the irony?

"It sounds like you are defining open minded as those having faith, and this I disagree. You are darn right, you have to prove something before I believe it. My faith is in God."

That's not what I meant. For example, say a man was raised to believe that gerbils are the most dangerous creatures in the world. Then one day someone tells him that gerbils are harmless, and tells him why. If that man were open minded, he would take what the other person said into consideration, and find out for himself if gerbils are actually harmless. If he were close minded, he would immediately reject the other person's suggestions, not bother to find out if gerbils are harmless, he would rather stay the hell away from gerbils and continue to believe what he was raised to believe.

I believe in God too.

nhp
11-11-2003, 08:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> You might want to rethink the way you have the forums displayed to your monitor. This the second time you have replied without knowing who I was referring to. I posted that statement as a reply to ####.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

I just rethought the way I have the forums displayed, but nothing happened. Care to help?

eg8r
11-11-2003, 09:03 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for proving my point... <hr /></blockquote> So you don't believe in having facts to make a good decision, you just believe in what people say?

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, ditto to you. If you're gonna make an argument stop being a hypocrite and do YOUR own homework. You chose to argue, I didn't drag you to your computer. Sense the irony?
<hr /></blockquote> I don't believe I am making an argument. I am asking you to prove what you said. You can't, so no need to argue. Go and read the definition of irony. It is widely mis-used.

[ QUOTE ]
If that man were open minded, he would take what the other person said into consideration, and find out for himself if gerbils are actually harmless. If he were close minded, he would immediately reject the other person's suggestions, not bother to find out if gerbils are harmless, he would rather stay the hell away from gerbils and continue to believe what he was raised to believe.
<hr /></blockquote> LOL. I bet you are the type of person that believes some guy when he says his dog doesn't bite. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif What do you do when that dog bites you?

Your post further proves that you have no intention of proving your point (outside of the articles you provided) and expect me to blindly believe you. It doesn't work that way, and I am troubled to see that you operate that way. I like someone to prove something to me before I blindly believe it. No sense in having a pissing match, so I will cease to reply any more on this subject with you.

eg8r

eg8r
11-11-2003, 09:07 AM
I use the threaded mode for display. It is quite easy to see who I am reply to because my reply is located directly under the person and indented to the right. I am guessing you are viewing the site in a flat mode or something of the like (similar to AzB).

eg8r

Qtec
11-11-2003, 09:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I like someone to prove something to me before I blindly believe it. <hr /></blockquote>

Proving something to you doesnt seem to make any difference.

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Qtec
11-11-2003, 09:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Democracy is the enemy of logic and reason <hr /></blockquote>

[ QUOTE ]
We gotta set things like Gulf War Sybdrome and casualties aside for the sake of democracy <hr /></blockquote>


Do dont know what you are talking about, do you?


Q

cheesemouse
11-11-2003, 09:34 AM
Sorry for butting in here but......[ QUOTE ]
I like someone to prove something to me before I blindly believe it. <hr /></blockquote>.....if this is true where does your faith in god come from? Just curious...

11-11-2003, 09:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Do dont know what you are talking about, do you?
<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, I do. Perhaps if you stay out of the hash-shops you would also know what your talking about.

Here's Qtec leaving his favourite "coffeeshop" after having a bowl of "coffee."
http://www.burgessbroadcast.org/netherlands/Amsterdam2002/thumbs/DarkerSide/Smoking/P8020090.jpg

11-11-2003, 09:46 AM
Got a little crazy on Halloween, eh NHP?
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/flagburning2.jpg

nhp
11-11-2003, 09:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
So you don't believe in having facts to make a good decision, you just believe in what people say? <hr /></blockquote>

Enough of this "taking everything literally" charade, stop fumbling with the obvious. What you are trying to do is create a catch-22 for my argument. I already explained to you that what these veterans, civilians, doctors, UN officials, etc. are claiming cannot be called facts unless this is proven in a trial, which will never happen. For so many different groups of people to say the same thing is enough evidence for me.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe I am making an argument. I am asking you to prove what you said. You can't, so no need to argue. Go and read the definition of irony. It is widely mis-used.
<hr /></blockquote>
ar·gu·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärgy-mnt)
n.

A discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a debate.
A quarrel; a dispute.

[ QUOTE ]
LOL. I bet you are the type of person that believes some guy when he says his dog doesn't bite. What do you do when that dog bites you?
<hr /></blockquote>
If that guy is a friend, and the dog is not growling, I have every reason to believe him. I suppose you must jump on the couch and scream when your friend's poodle sniffs you.

[ QUOTE ]
Your post further proves that you have no intention of proving your point (outside of the articles you provided) and expect me to blindly believe you. It doesn't work that way, and I am troubled to see that you operate that way. I like someone to prove something to me before I blindly believe it. No sense in having a pissing match, so I will cease to reply any more on this subject with you.
<hr /></blockquote>

I have done nothing but try to prove my point to you, where did you get that assumption? You haven't really had much of an argument lately, except for beating around the bush by taking things I said literally and pretending to be confused. I suppose now would be a good time to duck away.

nhp
11-11-2003, 09:53 AM
<hr /></blockquote>

The President of United States is the supreme leader of our nation. If he says we go to war, we go to war. We gotta set things like Gulf War Sybdrome and casualties aside for the sake of democracy. Have you ever heard of the word "sacrifice?"

Do you think we could have really won WWII without dropping the big ones on Japan? Nope. Sometimes you've got to destroy things before you can set them straight on the path to true democracy. <hr /></blockquote>

LOL this is a joke, right?

11-11-2003, 09:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
LOL this is a joke, right?
<hr /></blockquote>

I pity the fool who calls <font color="red">The New Messiah</font color> a joking man.

Qtec
11-11-2003, 09:58 AM
AAAh, the Bulldog. I used to walk past it every night after i had finished work. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I live in Rotterdam, the Bulldog is in Amsterdam.

Q

11-11-2003, 10:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If that guy is a friend, and the dog is not growling, I have every reason to believe him. I suppose you must jump on the couch and scream when your friend's poodle sniffs you.
<hr /></blockquote>

I once threw a handful of catnip on Eg8r. When my cat jumped on top of him he started screaming and crying like a little baby. Eventually he fought back his tears and said "You don't understand, I'm allergic to cats."

Qtec
11-11-2003, 10:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
LOL. I bet you are the type of person that believes some guy when he says his dog doesn't bite. What do you do when that dog bites you?
<hr /></blockquote>

You say,"WTF! I thought you said he didnt bite?"

Reply,"Thats not my dog!".

Its a classic.

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

11-11-2003, 10:13 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If this is true where does your faith in god come from? Just curious...
<hr /></blockquote>

It's all placebo effect. They say 20% of people who are given sugar pills have some sort of noticeable effect on their body. This is the case with Eg8r. He takes a tablespoon of sugar each morning when he prays, and sings "Hallelujah" all day long.

eg8r
11-11-2003, 10:32 AM
LOL.

eg8r

eg8r
11-11-2003, 10:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Enough of this "taking everything literally" charade, stop fumbling with the obvious. What you are trying to do is create a catch-22 for my argument. I already explained to you that what these veterans, civilians, doctors, UN officials, etc. are claiming cannot be called facts unless this is proven in a trial, which will never happen. For so many different groups of people to say the same thing is enough evidence for me. <hr /></blockquote> LOL, I am not the one fumbling. You are the one saying something, I reply and then you say "stop doing that". /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Quite hilarious to me.

As far as a trial...The court system does not decide whether a disease is caused by DU or alcohol (used for examples sake. There are plenty of things that cause diseases). That is decided by the medical community. The problem with your theory is that the medical community as a whole has not come out with a definitive answer. That is because they do not have one. The one doctor in your article did have some interesting ideas to prove the DU is the cause, but I don't know what he has done since to prove it any more. Just to clear this up, the judicial system does not even come into play in this discussion.

[ QUOTE ]
ar·gu·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärgy-mnt)
n.

A discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a debate.
A quarrel; a dispute.
<hr /></blockquote> Thank you for the definition. Any further discussion is pointless. You rather discuss the word argument than your inept ability to provide some clear, without doubt, facts. You keep referring to the fact that there are sick people and DU was present, so that is enough fact for you to put two and two together.

[ QUOTE ]
If that guy is a friend, and the dog is not growling, I have every reason to believe him. <hr /></blockquote> Now you are changing the example to suit your purpose. Never before was anything mentioned about friends or how the dog was reacting. LOL, this is a funny little branch to the thread.

[ QUOTE ]
I have done nothing but try to prove my point to you, where did you get that assumption? <hr /></blockquote> You offered 3 articles to peruse. I looked at 2 (skipped the first because of pics). Both cast doubt. I have already admitted (not exactly in those words) that I now believe DU was present, I am just looking for more solid proof that the DU is causing all the sickness.

[ QUOTE ]
You haven't really had much of an argument lately, except for beating around the bush by taking things I said literally and pretending to be confused. I suppose now would be a good time to duck away. <hr /></blockquote> Good bye. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Never had an argument in the beginning. That is what started this, I have been asking you to prove your side before I even thought about defending mine. No need to defend if you cannot prove yours. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I just say I disagree.

eg8r

eg8r
11-11-2003, 10:51 AM
Nice of you to bring it up. If you go back and read your question you answer it yourself. It is called FAITH. Sorry that was so hard to understand, but the answer was there under your nose.

eg8r

eg8r
11-11-2003, 10:52 AM
LOL, when have you ever proved anything. All you have ever done was ask some dumb question after providing a link to an article written by some anti-bush author. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

cheesemouse
11-11-2003, 11:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Nice of you to bring it up. If you go back and read your question you answer it yourself. It is called FAITH. Sorry that was so hard to understand, but the answer was there under your nose.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>


eg8r,
So faith is only a religious word to you, I have to assume. The more secular meaning of having faith in trustworthy information does not apply in your opinion shaping...Like I said "I am just curious"......

Qtec
11-11-2003, 11:19 AM
Is it not true that in the 50's the US Govt let soldiers walk towards a nuclear explosion minutes after the bomb went off? Did they not say that there was no risk?

Soldiers were used as Guinea Pigs and they had no idea. Until later.

Would you think it is safe to breath in vapourised Uranium?

Read the first article. The Brits advise using masks when dealing with tanks that have been hit with these weapons.

Q

eg8r
11-11-2003, 11:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
if this is true where does your faith in god come from? <hr /></blockquote>
Were you not the one that brought up religion? I answered you, my blind belief in God is faith. You are not curious about anything you are just playing dumb and seeing how long you can string me along. Don't play dumb, ask a question if you want. I have no problem answering you.

eg8r

cheesemouse
11-11-2003, 12:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
if this is true where does your faith in god come from? <hr /></blockquote>
Were you not the one that brought up religion? I answered you, my blind belief in God is faith. You are not curious about anything you are just playing dumb and seeing how long you can string me along. Don't play dumb, ask a question if you want. I have no problem answering you.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Well actually I believe you brought it up earlier in a response to NPH: [ QUOTE ]
It sounds like you are defining open minded as those having faith, and this I disagree. You are darn right, you have to prove something before I believe it. My faith is in God.
<hr /></blockquote>......my curiousity arouse from wondering how any information passes your test of being valid if you only have faith in god and not in just good reliable information or sourses.

I find it difficult to 'play dumb' except when trying to pick up chicks /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

....My question is: since you turned 18 years old when is the last time someone has convinced you to change your mind because they presented ideas of a persuasive nature?

eg8r
11-11-2003, 01:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
My question is: since you turned 18 years old when is the last time someone has convinced you to change your mind because they presented ideas of a persuasive nature? <hr /></blockquote> Not sure, I don't keep score. What is so magical about the age of 18?

eg8r

cheesemouse
11-11-2003, 01:43 PM
Nothing magical about the age it just is an exceptable benchmark age that most people recognize as the age of independance and responsiblity.

nhp
11-11-2003, 08:49 PM
I really find you hard to believe. I made it clear why the people who made these articles cannot call the hazard of DU a fact, you will never find anyone saying it is a fact, so stop asking. You are using that as your last desperate argument, over and over and over.....that is why I asked you to stop that.

I gave you the definition of ARGUMENT so that you could realize that you are ARGUING with me.

The DoD would have to undergo some trial by NATO for use of these hazardous weapons, then it can be called a fact. Until then, it is suspected.

[ QUOTE ]
Now you are changing the example to suit your purpose. Never before was anything mentioned about friends or how the dog was reacting. LOL, this is a funny little branch to the thread.

<hr /></blockquote>
??? I don't get what your point is here. I mentioned if whether I knew the person or not, and of course if the dog is foaming at the mouth I wouldn't go near it. How do you find any of this funny? You are really losing me here, oh wait, I forgot, you're desperate. Laugh all you want.

[ QUOTE ]
Good bye. Never had an argument in the beginning. That is what started this, I have been asking you to prove your side before I even thought about defending mine. No need to defend if you cannot prove yours. I just say I disagree.
<hr /></blockquote>

The typical words of a close-minded person. You blindly took your side and argued without any proof. What a hypocrite. You've ran out of excuses to sound intelligent, good idea to leave this thread.

eg8r
11-12-2003, 08:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
you will never find anyone saying it is a fact, so stop asking. You are using that as your last desperate argument, over and over and over.....that is why I asked you to stop that.
<hr /></blockquote> If it was a fact, I gaurantee you, those people would have no problem stating it.

[ QUOTE ]
The DoD would have to undergo some trial by NATO for use of these hazardous weapons, then it can be called a fact. Until then, it is suspected. <hr /></blockquote> By NATO??? Anyways, those would not be the people deciding if this was all true, they would just make a decision on the US's guilt. Whether the reports and sickness from DU is true, will be proven medically not judicially.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get what your point is here. <hr /></blockquote> I believe this is a recurring issue. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
I forgot, you're desperate. <hr /></blockquote> Why would you think I am desperate. There is nothing happening because of this thread that is life-threatning, or might cause me harm or trouble. My friend there is nothing for me to be desperate about when referring to this thread. I actually have had a good time with it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
You've ran out of excuses to sound intelligent, good idea to leave this thread. <hr /></blockquote> No thank you. I don't accept your invitation. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

11-12-2003, 11:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Why would you think I am desperate. <hr /></blockquote>

hahahahahaha! Does this question really need to be asked???!!!

nhp
11-13-2003, 04:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If it was a fact, I gaurantee you, those people would have no problem stating it.
<hr /></blockquote>

Then their news source would become bias and nobody would believe them. Don't guarantee me, you don't know what you're talking about.

[ QUOTE ]
By NATO??? Anyways, those would not be the people deciding if this was all true, they would just make a decision on the US's guilt. Whether the reports and sickness from DU is true, will be proven medically not judicially.

<hr /></blockquote>

I'm sorry, I meant the UN (which will never happen).

[ QUOTE ]
I believe this is a recurring issue.
<hr /></blockquote>
The recurring issue is you're not making sense.

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you think I am desperate. There is nothing happening because of this thread that is life-threatning, or might cause me harm or trouble. My friend there is nothing for me to be desperate about when referring to this thread. I actually have had a good time with it.

<hr /></blockquote>
Your ego has been threatened, which is the only reason why you are sticking around to try and get the last word.

[ QUOTE ]
No thank you. I don't accept your invitation.
<hr /></blockquote>

I rest my case.