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Viking31
11-08-2003, 11:37 AM
Heard all the rave about how great the Predator shafts are. I have a Viking and am very satisfied with that shaft. The boys tell me that Predator is the way to go... Do I or don't I?? It is really worth it???
Thx

ras314
11-08-2003, 01:30 PM
The Predator 314 shaft is probably not worth it if you like the Viking shaft. Try to find one to hit with first. It does produce less "squirt" off the shaft for me, can be a good or bad thing depending on what you are used to.

I'm still looking for that magic wand.

koolcuedude
11-08-2003, 01:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Viking31:</font><hr> Heard all the rave about how great the Predator shafts are. I have a Viking and am very satisfied with that shaft. The boys tell me that Predator is the way to go... Do I or don't I?? It is really worth it???
Thx <hr /></blockquote>

Where have you been, that's been going on now for ten years and yes I agree they are one fine shaft.

Cueless Joey
11-08-2003, 01:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Viking31:</font><hr> Heard all the rave about how great the Predator shafts are. I have a Viking and am very satisfied with that shaft. The boys tell me that Predator is the way to go... Do I or don't I?? It is really worth it???
Thx <hr /></blockquote>
Are the boys really good players?
Most good players I know are happy with quality maple shaft.

WaltVA
11-08-2003, 04:32 PM
Agree with ras314 - if you're really curious, try one first before you buy. I shot with a standard Schon shaft for years, bought a Pred LE7 without trying it, shot with it about 2 weeks and went back to the Schon. Somehow I just had less feel for some of those soft "touch" shots with the Pred - probably just because I was so used to the Schon.

Used the Pred for a break stick 'till about a week ago, sold it to a buddy who's a Predator fan.

Walt in VA

Rick the stick
11-08-2003, 06:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote WaltVA:</font><hr> Agree with ras314 - if you're really curious, try one first before you buy. I shot with a standard Schon shaft for years, bought a Pred LE7 without trying it, shot with it about 2 weeks and went back to the Schon. Somehow I just had less feel for some of those soft "touch" shots with the Pred - probably just because I was so used to the Schon.

Used the Pred for a break stick 'till about a week ago, sold it to a buddy who's a Predator fan.

Walt in VA <hr /></blockquote>


I used to play with them, damn fine shafts. They were cool when they were $125, and I do not think any shaft is worth more than that. What are they today, over $200, that is silly, a shaft costs more than most cues sold today, that is nuts. You can price any thing out of it's market and they are about to do just that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

jjinfla
11-08-2003, 06:07 PM
The Preditor is last years news. They milked that gimmick for all its worth. But you most likely can pick one up in the secondary market for around $75 now.

SteveFromNY
11-09-2003, 01:25 PM
see..here's the thing. it seems that there are those who seriously swear by the 314 but on the other hand, some swear it's a gimmick. I personally shot with a viking and when I started playing in the local leagues about a year ago, I bought a 314 and I instantly felt more control of spins, sometimes a bit more than I had expected but I quickly got used to it. I switched over back to my old viking shaft last week for kicks and I was missing almost everything and miscuing lots of nard draws. To tell yiou the truth, I honestly don't know how much of this is mental but I just cant shoot with anything else now. Take the advice and try it out first, not just a few shots, seriously try it out for a few good racks then decide.

RedHell
11-10-2003, 01:12 PM
I have always seen the difference of oppinions towards the 314 as a proof of what it does, and I explain.

If you are a seasoned player and are used to your cue, you have learned to compensate for the deflection. Now if you switch to a 314, you get lost again and you must re-learn how to hit english shots. It very likely that, because you see your game decrease, you won't like the predator.

But if you're a player that hasn't yet mastered the deflection of your cue, switching to a 314 will make you believe you can hit more spins and that you shoot better. It's just that the effort required from no compensation to a little compensation for squirt is less.

In my case, I just finnished learning how my new cue was behaving on delfection when I decided to buy a 314. To tell you the truth I knew my game would go down the drain. I bought it during the summer and allowed myself 3 to 4 month to get use to it and be ready for the season.

There's still a few shots that I have trouble with, but it's finally coming around.

All in all, I like the shaft !!!

NEMO
11-10-2003, 01:51 PM
I switched from a Schon shaft to Predator 314 just to see what all the hype was about. All in all, I think I play the same regardless of shafts.

True, there is an adjustment period from switching from any shaft. The one thing that helped me the most in making the change was to NOT play pool for 2 weeks. This helped in forgetting the "old" feel of the original shaft.

I believe all this talk about cue deflection is just an excuse for not being able to play. Just hit the darn object ball into a pocket and place the cueball on the right side of your next shot. Keep it simple.

Nemo

RedHell
11-10-2003, 01:59 PM
I believe you are simplifying a little to much here. True not everyone is aware of deflection, surely many players compensate without knowing. But saying that deflection doesn't exist is too simplistic.

It's there and it's easy to prove.

Still it is no excuse to miss a shot.

NEMO
11-10-2003, 02:15 PM
Redhell,

I never said it didn't exist. IMHO, players who worry about deflection are not worrying about the right thing, how to pocket balls and get position correctly.

All too many times I've seen players complain about deflection. But when given a "less deflection" cue, they play the same. These same players also like to apply more than require english to the cue ball.

Throughout the many years that I have been playing, I've found pool (9-ball in particular) to be beautifully simplistic, where keeping things simple equates to run outs. I guess this can only come through experience and a certain level of play.

Nemo

woody_968
11-10-2003, 04:08 PM
I recently went to a predator shaft and must say I really like it.
I have played several cues, recently using Meucci which is what I have played most of the time. The only thing I didnt like about Meucci is the whippy shaft on hard high right or high left english shots. The pred shaft stiffended it up just enough without making my cue feel like a rock.
Could be just mental, but I am glad I got it.

JimS
11-10-2003, 06:16 PM
I tried one and didn't like it at all. I'll take my South West anytime.

fongpang
11-11-2003, 01:05 AM
I personally started with a Lucasi and i thought that it was a great stick with WAY better control than house cues. i shot wit the lucasi for 2 years and upgraded to a predator cue. The difference is COMPLETELY different. I had to relearn all my shots and english because the 314 was just so powerful. i went from being able to draw across a table length to being able to draw almost 2 table lengths. It definitely changed my game for the better and now that i've improved my stroke with the 314 i can do the same english and make the same set-up shots with a house cue

Rick the stick
11-11-2003, 02:40 AM
What everybody says so far is right, but focus on this. No matter how good you are, if you have a shaft that does deflect a lot, I will cause you to miss a shot or two every set. If you have a shaft that has a much smaller amount of deflection you miss less shots. To some amateurs this is not much to worry about. At the top of the game, missing one or two shots per match is the difference between losing and winning. Two shafts I know that do deflect less than most hard rock stiff maple shafts are the 314 and the Meucci red dots, I don't care for the black dot.

Fred Agnir
11-11-2003, 09:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RedHell:</font><hr>
If you are a seasoned player and are used to your cue, you have learned to compensate for the deflection. Now if you switch to a 314, you get lost again and you must re-learn how to hit english shots. It very likely that, because you see your game decrease, you won't like the predator.

But if you're a player that hasn't yet mastered the deflection of your cue, switching to a 314 will make you believe you can hit more spins and that you shoot better. It's just that the effort required from no compensation to a little compensation for squirt is less.<hr /></blockquote>IMO, this is exactly the correct assessment of why you hear such drastically differing view points on the Predator.

Fred

TheChump
11-11-2003, 11:57 AM
There is an alternative to the Predator Shaft. It's called the Tiger X Shaft. Page 27 of the November 2003 Billiards Digest magazine has a full page ad on the revolutionary new shaft. You can also visit www.tigerproducts.com (http://www.tigerproducts.com) for more information. This shaft also has a solid center, not a hollow one as the Predator.

Fred Agnir
11-11-2003, 12:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TheChump:</font><hr> There is an alternative to the Predator Shaft. It's called the Tiger X Shaft. Page 27 of the November 2003 Billiards Digest magazine has a full page ad on the revolutionary new shaft. You can also visit www.tigerproducts.com (http://www.tigerproducts.com) for more information. This shaft also has a solid center, not a hollow one as the Predator.

<hr /></blockquote>If it's not hollow, does it claim to have similar squirt characteristics as the Predator 314 shaft?

Fred

SPetty
11-11-2003, 12:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> If it's not hollow, does it claim to have similar squirt characteristics as the Predator 314 shaft?<hr /></blockquote>From the website: "Revolutionary new design concept ferrule for less deflection &amp; maximum English." Predator is not mentioned.

Fred Agnir
11-11-2003, 12:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> If it's not hollow, does it claim to have similar squirt characteristics as the Predator 314 shaft?<hr /></blockquote>From the website: "Revolutionary new design concept ferrule for less deflection &amp; maximum English." Predator is not mentioned. <hr /></blockquote> Oh great. Now I have to go buy one before I trash it.

Fred

TheChump
11-11-2003, 12:48 PM
Fred, click on the link to see the ad and the difference in construction with regards to the Predator.

http://www.tigerproducts.com/xshaft.htm

By the way, the ad does not mention Predator or any other product.

phil in sofla
11-11-2003, 06:08 PM
Joey, I've heard a figure that something like 45-50% of pro tour players are using the Predator shaft. If so, since there are so many choices out there, including the shafts made for their (often) expensive custom cues, such a vote of confidence with their wallets and choice of what they play with by so many must mean something. And to my knowledge, it doesn't mean the Predator folks are paying out large endorsement contracts to get people to use them, so...

phil in sofla
11-11-2003, 06:15 PM
Joe Tucker, author of 'Secrets of the Rack, and the drill book 'Guaranteed Improvement,' just flat out says everybody ought to use one of these shafts. My friend Kato got one, gave it a reasonable tryout, and decided to go back to his stock Helmstedter and shaft (now plays with a Blackheart). Now the guy he sold it to, another friend, George, a good player, swears by the Predator, and says he'll never play with anything else.

By most accounts, it does what it claims to. The only question is how its unique characteristics will help or harm your game, and with what adjustment period. Mileage may vary.

cheesemouse
11-11-2003, 11:30 PM
I made the change over to 314's about two and a half years ago. I was going for more consistency. The transition period was months and I nearly gave up and went back to old whippy but slowly I got what I wanted. The only thing I missed was the lack of feed back in the feel department then I got lucky when the hard tip I had on the playing 314 flew off and on a whim I had the guy put on a soft Elk Masters tip and now I have the feel too....I love the hit with the soft tip and will never go hard again...

Cueless Joey
11-12-2003, 11:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote phil in sofla:</font><hr> Joey, I've heard a figure that something like 45-50% of pro tour players are using the Predator shaft. If so, since there are so many choices out there, including the shafts made for their (often) expensive custom cues, such a vote of confidence with their wallets and choice of what they play with by so many must mean something. And to my knowledge, it doesn't mean the Predator folks are paying out large endorsement contracts to get people to use them, so... <hr /></blockquote>
45-50%? Where did that number come from?
Most pros don't use 314's. Those who do, get them for free and get to buy them at discounted price.
I know of a great pro who turned down 314 b/c he claimed he kept hitting the ball "thin". Whatever that means.
I used to play with a 314. Did that improve my game?
No, it created a bad habit. And stopped me from learning backhand english.
I think 314's biggest attribute is the pie lamination. It makes it stiffer and more stable. That really soft ferrule and holled end gives it low deflection, would it make beginners play better? I doubt it.

11-12-2003, 12:09 PM

Eric.
11-12-2003, 12:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote phil in sofla:</font><hr> Joey, I've heard a figure that something like 45-50% of pro tour players are using the Predator shaft. <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Phil,

I wonder if that stat is misleading. I know alot of the Top players are using the BK break cue. Are they included in the number? I also know that there are alot of players using the BK but not the 314 for a playing shaft. Just wunderin.


Eric

Sid_Vicious
11-12-2003, 01:26 PM
My experience is this, I have a very good playing cue which I have all the confidence in the world with as far as getting on the extreme edge of the CB for those 90 degree ultra thin cut shots. I also have a 314 on a Lucasi cue and I have the same confidence with that cue on the same shot. There is something in the Predator 314s, else the Lucasi wouldn't walk and talk like my custom does on that shot...sid

bluewolf
11-12-2003, 01:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> My wife is purchasing a used Falcon cue made ~10 years ago - one of the old style sticks if you will. This cue is 17 ounces and came with an 11.5 hard maple shaft and a 12.5 Predator shaft. My wife just acquired a Scruggs and this stick hits better than any Predator produced IMO. It is slightly front weighted and solid hits 100% of the time. <hr /></blockquote>

Ray,

That sounds like I am buying a bunch of sticks. The falcon was purchased for your daughter, not for me, although I do agree it shoots nice. Not as nice as the scruggs though.The scruggs does hit great. I cant really compare it to the predator.

Laura

Fred Agnir
11-12-2003, 01:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> My experience is this, I have a very good playing cue which I have all the confidence in the world with as far as getting on the extreme edge of the CB for those 90 degree ultra thin cut shots.<hr /></blockquote>I gotta ask. Why are you on the extreme edge of the cueball on those 90 ultra thin cut shots?

Fred

Rod
11-12-2003, 02:00 PM
What rave and great at what? Is it a magic wand? LOL I've played with the shaft and cues. The shaft is a little soft and to small diameter for me. Much more can be done to better your game by improving your stroke.

Rod

pooltchr
11-12-2003, 02:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Much more can be done to better your game by improving your stroke.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>
Tap Tap Tap

Sid_Vicious
11-12-2003, 03:04 PM
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%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pf4G1%W\5H8%Xf9G6%[[4B7%\[4F3
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)END


The spin gotten with the extreme edge in this shot to make the ball in the side. I can't get the RSB table to exhibit the far edge of the left side of the CB english I apply, but it's far enough out that you have to trust your shaft a lot, the red dot of the arrow is the place..sid

RedHell
11-12-2003, 03:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NEMO:</font><hr> Redhell,

I never said it didn't exist. IMHO, players who worry about deflection are not worrying about the right thing, how to pocket balls and get position correctly.

<font color="blue"> Well I believe that it's when you try to understand how come you didn't make the shot that you discover deflection is a factor to consider... </font color>

All too many times I've seen players complain about deflection. But when given a "less deflection" cue, they play the same. These same players also like to apply more than require english to the cue ball.

<font color="blue"> I agree, deflection is no excuse to miss a shot, not considering it is perharps the reason for missing the shot, but there's no excuses here !!!</font color>

Throughout the many years that I have been playing, I've found pool (9-ball in particular) to be beautifully simplistic, where keeping things simple equates to run outs. I guess this can only come through experience and a certain level of play.

<font color="blue"> In keeping thing simple you surely mean on a strategical point of view, not on a knowledge one. You know deflection exist and you always work with it... </font color>

Nemo <hr /></blockquote>

Kato
11-12-2003, 03:39 PM
Here's what I did.

Bought a Predator SP because Sid liked his. Hated it. Changed the weights, anything I could think of, sold it.

Bought a Predator SLP, liked it better but couldn't "get it".

Bought Predator shaft for my Helmstetter, had it customized by Dennis Searing to have collar match. Tried it, just couldn't do it.

Went back to Helmstetter shaft, liked it better.

Bought Omen. Better still, much "softer" hit.

Won Blackheart. Jerry's laminated shafts are the best shafts I've ever hit with. No adjustment period needed.

Kato

Mikey
11-12-2003, 04:07 PM
Ya know, I've read alot of posts on the predator shaft on a Schon, and I gotta tell you , they are right. I shoot with a Schon and I wanted to try to improve my game , so I bought a predator shaft. To be honest with you, I really didn't see that much difference for the money. I put it on my Joss and there was a world of difference, a lot more spin. If you want more spin on your cue ball, go for it. But I'm just not that impressed.---Mikey

Mikey
11-12-2003, 04:19 PM
Hey Cheese , thats what I did a week after I got the shaft, I put an elk master on it ---feels great---Mikey

cheesemouse
11-12-2003, 05:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Mikey:</font><hr> Hey Cheese , thats what I did a week after I got the shaft, I put an elk master on it ---feels great---Mikey <hr /></blockquote>

Geezzzz, why didn't you tell that two years ago...LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif.....I don't know what it is but I now have to old finesse back on the cb. I don't really care what it is. It all depends on how you define what the word is is....hehehe /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pooltchr
11-13-2003, 07:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Mikey:</font><hr> I wanted to try to improve my game , so I bought a predator shaft.<hr /></blockquote>

IMHO, in most cases, buying new equipment isn't going to improve anyone's game. Money would have been better spent on an instructor to work with you. The keys to improvement are knowledge and practice, not new equipment.

Fred Agnir
11-13-2003, 07:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> START(
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%e@9a2
)END


The spin gotten with the extreme edge in this shot to make the ball in the side. <hr /></blockquote>I know people talk about this 90 shot, and make little diagrams of it, but I've never seen anyone show me that they can make it with outside english. There's virtually no throw on such an extremely thin hit, and the swerve is working the opposite direction. If you can make this shot, kudos to you. Others swear you need inside to swerve it out-to-in to make this shot.

Fred

Mikey
11-13-2003, 04:29 PM
Hey, I understand that SOMETIMES buying new equipment will not help, BUT isn't that what this game or any other game is all about, I mean no matter how well you play we're always looking for something to help us out,I mean I've been playing for 40 years man. This thread is about the predator shaft , not about someones ability on the table.I'm sl 9 on bca 9 ball and sl 9 on apa 9 ball. Sure everybody could benefit from lessons, but i don't need somebody that doesn't know me to tell me thatI do.

pooltchr
11-14-2003, 07:03 AM
O-K, calm down. I simply meant that changing equipment more often than not will not make anyone's game better. And at your level, where you are aware of the differences, changing equipment requires you to re-learn how it reacts. I suspect you could probably shoot as well with a house cue as you could with a predator. Changing because you want to is one thing, but I still don't think it will improve your game. JMHO

MarkUrsel
11-14-2003, 11:20 AM
I disagree with you a little on this one, but on a different level. What buying new equipment will do is help to re-motivate you, and in the process of testing and learning the new equipment, you'll practise quite a bit more than usual.

New equipment = Motivation + practice = better play

Therefore new equipment, especially something worth enough money that you really really want to like it, will help your game.

Or I could be just talking out of my a..ahh...ahhh..ohh...oh hey kids, here's Itchy and Scratchy!

Mikey
11-14-2003, 05:33 PM
Hey Mark, the itchy and scratchy thing was hilarious, but this other guy just came back with about the same , boring reply---Mikey

charlieb
11-16-2003, 02:37 AM
I have used a Predator for several yrs (3-4) and was going to get a new shaft, since mine is down to about 12.5 mm. But the prices are ridiculous on their website. (230.00) Is there an after market out there and if so how do you protect yourself from being ripped off? Warpage ect. Where can I find the best price? Suggestions appreciated.

Cueless Joey
11-16-2003, 02:42 AM
They go for about $180 on Fleabay or Seyberts.

BeanDiesel
11-17-2003, 04:06 PM
since a lot of you hate production cues (cuetec for example), I wonder if predator is mass produced as well. enlighten me.

bluewolf
11-18-2003, 05:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BeanDiesel:</font><hr> since a lot of you hate production cues (cuetec for example), I wonder if predator is mass produced as well. enlighten me. <hr /></blockquote>

Yes. I also played with one for over a year. Although I liked it, a good shaft made by a good cue maker shoots well too. I think it is personal preferrance. Even with custom cues, some have a pred shaft fitted, some go with the cuemaker's shaft. The shaft that came with my scruggs, imo, shoots just as well as the predator. In fact, I like it better.

Laura