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Mike B.
11-10-2003, 09:29 AM
I was playing in a team tournament this past weekend and hit one of my object balls off of the table. We were playing VNEA rules and were keeping score by balls made, not games won.

This has happened to me in the past and the ruling was to spot the ball if it belonged to the player that hit it off of the table and to drop it if it was the opponents ball.

I am wondering if this rule has changed or not. There was no question that it was a foul and the incoming player received ball in hand. There was a question as to whether or not the ball spotted up.

RedHell
11-10-2003, 11:03 AM
Hi Mike,

That happend to me last week as well. If you look in the rule book it is clearly stated that all balls must be spotted in numerical order from the lowest to the highest.

A ball off the table never gets dropped...

Iowashark
11-10-2003, 02:30 PM
How'd you guys end up doing, Mike? The Undertakers got a hold of us, pretty much square going into the 5th round and they started with 3 ero's to close the deal.

Fred Agnir
11-11-2003, 09:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Mike B.:</font><hr> I was playing in a team tournament this past weekend and hit one of my object balls off of the table. We were playing VNEA rules and were keeping score by balls made, not games won.

This has happened to me in the past and the ruling was to spot the ball if it belonged to the player that hit it off of the table and to drop it if it was the opponents ball.

I am wondering if this rule has changed or not. There was no question that it was a foul and the incoming player received ball in hand. There was a question as to whether or not the ball spotted up. <hr /></blockquote>I don't know about VNEA (which normally uses slightly modified BCA rules), but in BCA rules, all balls stay down even if they are off the table. Incoming player has BIH.

Exceptions:
If it's 8-ball, and the 8-ball went off the table, it's a loss of game.

If it's 9-ball, and the 9-ball went off the table, it gets spotted.


Fred

mike_in_iowa
11-11-2003, 12:12 PM
what might not have been said was that the matches were a ball score format. Now I understand that, say a ball was made and a foul occurred it would stay down. But this could not happen on a match winning shot. This was ball count
now this ball did not go down, it went off the table. We felt it should not count in the score and should come up. it was done by Mike B on our team.

mike athens

Fred Agnir
11-11-2003, 12:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mike_in_iowa:</font><hr> what might not have been said was that the matches were a ball score format. Now I understand that, say a ball was made and a foul occurred it would stay down. But this could not happen on a match winning shot. This was ball count
now this ball did not go down, it went off the table. We felt it should not count in the score and should come up. it was done by Mike B on our team.

mike athens <hr /></blockquote>Wow. Just when I thought I heard it all. You've got a question that absolutely should be addressed by the VNEA, as rare as it might be.

If past precedence is used, then illegally pocketed balls still count for that player. Balls made when a person scratches or fails to hit their ball first still stay down and count. Of course, they're in the ball holder by that time. A not-so-rare occurence is to pocket the winning ball by hitting your opponents first, say, if your ball is hanging in the pocket. It's cheap, but it's within the rules. So, I'd say, it counts as a point for the team who owns that suit. To further this, other games like one pocket have made use of "jumping the ball off the table" in a manner that even today people think is... suspect. So, again, past precedence points to allowing its score.

That ruling would obviously piss off half the world. But, it's not like it happens every day such that you could "use it to your advantage.

Fred

Mike B.
11-11-2003, 12:49 PM
We ended up getting second place to Team Legend.