PDA

View Full Version : Richard Black cues?



SteveFromNY
11-13-2003, 08:57 AM
Does anybody here play with them? I'm completely COMPLETELY in love with the BUSHKA but $1700 is seriously way too steep for me now. And I inquired about a predator shaft but he woudln't do it so what are the odds that a shop can do it for me? Also, regarding the playability....what sort of criteria is there? Do certain makers' cues play stiffer or softer? It's just that I'll be actually PLAYING with the cue so aside from the aesthetics of custom cues, I'd like to know what plays like my Viking/Predator combo. Thanks!

Fred Agnir
11-13-2003, 09:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SteveFromNY:</font><hr> Does anybody here play with them? I'm completely COMPLETELY in love with the BUSHKA but $1700 is seriously way too steep for me now. And I inquired about a predator shaft but he woudln't do it so what are the odds that a shop can do it for me? Also, regarding the playability....what sort of criteria is there? Do certain makers' cues play stiffer or softer? It's just that I'll be actually PLAYING with the cue ...<hr /></blockquote>
If it's of any use whatsoever, I've shot with a few Richard Black Cues and loved them.

Fred

Pizza Bob
11-13-2003, 10:28 AM
Time for you to decide whether the Bushka design, or the fact that it's a Richard Black is more important to you. If the latter, here's a link you may find interesting...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3636697798&amp;category=21 212

A Black, but not a Bushka, but already has a Predator shaft and a Buy it now at about half of what you stated in your original post. Good luck.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

dooziexx
11-13-2003, 10:49 AM
My 2cents on Black's cues. His point work falls short compared to other cue makers like scruggs etc. If you look at his cues closely, his points are not even ie some points are slightly higher than others. Not all of his cues are like that, so if I were you, you should get a chance to look at the cue before buying it and inspect his work. For $1700 that cue better be flawless and all points/veneers must line up. Im base my opinion from personal experience.

cycopath
11-13-2003, 10:54 AM
That guy wants $30 for shipping! What does that cue weigh, like 50 lbs or something? That irritates me to no end when people try and make money off the shipping.

Btw, my dad has a Richard Black in Koa made in 1986. It shoots fantastically, very very solid. He also has had his order accepted for one of Black's 30th Anniversary cues to be put out next year. But I don't think he'll let me knock a few balls around with that one. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

justbrake
11-13-2003, 11:01 AM
If it's of any use whatsoever, I've shot with a few Richard Black Cues and loved them.

Hi-Fred, what do you shoot with now! just curious.

Thanks!

Fred Agnir
11-13-2003, 11:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote justbrake:</font><hr> If it's of any use whatsoever, I've shot with a few Richard Black Cues and loved them.

Hi-Fred, what do you shoot with now! just curious.

Thanks! <hr /></blockquote>Ray Schuler

Fred

Popcorn
11-13-2003, 11:26 AM
A good shipping tube will cost you $4.00 or $5.00. There is the shipping it's self + insurance. An item like that can only be sent by UPS or FEDX. Depending where you live and the closest location you are probably looking at an hour or more just getting it sent off.. They may not be getting rich off the shipping if you consider everything.

ceebee
11-13-2003, 11:29 AM
Richard Black makes a very fine Cue. I have owned a few of his Cues. Lots of Cue Makers make very fine Cues. JossWest, Ingram, Scruggs, Gilbert, Auerbach Custom Cues &amp; many others do too.

There has never been a MAGIC WAND made. There never will be, but there are several Cues that you will enjoy playing well with.

If you want a Custom Cue, by all means get you one. Buying a Custom Cue isn't like buying an automobile, you want auto tinting windows, but can't get that option with a 4 cyl engine. With a Custom Cue, you get what you want &amp; can pay for.

Paying for the "NAME", in a custom Cue does not guarantee you anything but a nice looking Cue Stick, that you have designed. If "the hit" is there, you are going to be pleased. If "the hit" isn't there... try a few different tips &amp; re-weighting before comdemning the Cue to being an expensive Tomato Stake in your garden.

cycopath
11-13-2003, 12:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> A good shipping tube will cost you $4.00 or $5.00. There is the shipping it's self + insurance. An item like that can only be sent by UPS or FEDX. Depending where you live and the closest location you are probably looking at an hour or more just getting it sent off.. They may not be getting rich off the shipping if you consider everything. <hr /></blockquote>

UPS Ground from Miami, Fl to Los Angeles, CA with $800 insurance is $11.26. If you want 2nd day air it's $18.90. So you are correct by saying the guy ain't getting rich, especially with 2nd day. But I always charge 'actual' shipping when I sell something. Unless it's something that's a real bear to package up.

Cueless Joey
11-13-2003, 01:06 PM
He makes pretty cues.
How do they hit? It's crapshoot.
I've hit with a few who hit very soft.
I know one guy who paid $10K for one.
It's a dud.
Then I know one good player who swears he had a great hitting Black before he lost it.

Pelican
11-13-2003, 01:37 PM
"closest location you are probably looking at an hour or more just getting it sent off.."

Would have to be way out in nowhere these days. You can ship UPS at any Office Depot or any of what used to be MailBoxes Etc, or anywhere you see the UPS sign out front.

Like cycopath said, the dude is in Miami not Montana. Lets face it, he wants to make an extra 15 bucks or so on shipping/handling /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.

Popcorn
11-13-2003, 02:44 PM
I would never send a cue by ground. I sell on ebay also and some times you can really goof. I sold a bow for $250.00 with actual shipping. After being paid the guy requested Fedx. Because it was hard to package and cost quite a bit. I had to get boxes and cut them up to make a box. I would not send anything through one of those mailbox places, so I drove 20 minutes to Fedx, stood in line for like 45 minutes. I would say I wasted half a day sending the thing off. On a unique item, I don't think someone is out of line at least getting the cost of the packaging. In the case of a $2000.00 cue a good heavy weight tube will cost at least $6.00. I know what you mean though.

dg-in-centralpa
11-13-2003, 03:41 PM
Steve - I bought a Richard Black Bushka back in 2000. It's a great cue and came with an extra shaft plus a 1 x 2 custom case made for Richard. I also have a Predator that I bought in '98 or '99. The shaft fits perfectly on my Black cue. Take it for what it's worth, I love it and am not sorry I bought it. I saved for awhile 'til I could afford it. If you can wait, Richard will be at Valley Forge in March with this cue for sale. Then you can get a closer look at it.

DG - now saving for a real Balabushka

Pelican
11-13-2003, 04:06 PM
"There has never been a MAGIC WAND made. There never will be"

I certainly agree with this. We all have known a shooter that goes from one cue to the next lookin' for the 'magic wand'. The shooter makes the cue, not the other way around. I have been beaten by a fella that unscrewed the handle from a push broom and shot with it.

"Paying for the "NAME", in a custom Cue does not guarantee you anything but a nice looking Cue Stick,"

It can also insure value. Cues made by the upper end makers do appreciate in value if well cared for. Anyone got a nice 20 year old Burton Spain they would sell for what it sold for new? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

griffith_d
11-13-2003, 05:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr> That guy wants $30 for shipping! What does that cue weigh, like 50 lbs or something? That irritates me to no end when people try and make money off the shipping.

<hr /></blockquote>

I have shipped two cues at different times to Japan and it only cost $30 with insurance and that was with two shafts and a nuclear blast proof tube. Someone is padding the price.

Griff

Popcorn
11-13-2003, 05:19 PM
I am not sure what you are talking about. I checked rates and to ship from my house to Houston about half way across the country the cost with insurance for a $2000.(UPS) cue second day air is $20.27 + the cost of a proper heavy weight mailing tube another $6.00. If it was me I would go for next day, $35.41 plus the tube would make it over $40.00 for a cue of that value. How do figure you can send a 3 LB package insured for $2000. in proper packaging for $15.00. Even the post office would get $21.00 just for the insurance + $6.85 shipping and $6.00 for the tube, that is $33.85. I don't think the guy is trying to screw anyone.

Pelican
11-13-2003, 05:33 PM
"If it was me I would go for next day, $35.41"

I'm not in that big a hurry.

Popcorn
11-13-2003, 05:48 PM
Has nothing to do with speed, you don't want the cue floating all over the place for a week or ten days. You want the minimal of handling of the cue. If someone can't pay say, $15.00 extra shipping they should not be buying a $2000. cue. I think South West cue, (at least they used to anyway), would only send cues overnight.

Pelican
11-13-2003, 06:14 PM
Longest 'in transit' I can remember was 4 days. The shipping co's are doing much better than when we was young'uns. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pelican
11-13-2003, 06:18 PM
You sell a lot of sporting goods on eBay?

Rick the stick
11-14-2003, 01:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote justbrake:</font><hr> If it's of any use whatsoever, I've shot with a few Richard Black Cues and loved them.

Hi-Fred, what do you shoot with now! just curious.

Thanks! <hr /></blockquote>Ray Schuler

Fred <hr /></blockquote>


Well hot damn Fred, we finally have sometin in common, I've played with a Schuler since 1985, you should be nicer to me. Don't mess with rick, mess with my wa it aint pretty. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rich R.
11-14-2003, 05:00 AM
I have spoken to a couple of top cue makers in my area and, both, will only ship cues via FEDEX overnight. Although I don't know the reason, neither will use UPS.
Just a little FYI. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SteveFromNY
11-14-2003, 06:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Pizza Bob:</font><hr> Time for you to decide whether the Bushka design, or the fact that it's a Richard Black is more important to you. If the latter, here's a link you may find interesting...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3636697798&amp;category=21 212

A Black, but not a Bushka, but already has a Predator shaft and a Buy it now at about half of what you stated in your original post. Good luck.

Adios,

Pizza Bob <hr /></blockquote>its definitely more of the bushka design element that's grabbing me. I haven't found such a nice design yet!

SteveFromNY
11-14-2003, 06:11 AM
thanks for the responses everyone! I'm used to my viking/predator combo and have shot with a mcdermott, coker and a capone with 314 which felt the best, but needless to say, it was because of the 314. I also knocked around a few balls with a black cue which felt a bit odd (ivory ferrule) at first but i felt it had a nice hit. As far as playability, I know that whatever new cue I decide on, I'll ultimately have to transition but I'm curious as to what other custom cue makers out there make cues that look like the bushka AND play well. Play well, not meaning a magic wand, but rather something that does not hold its value more on form than function.

SteveFromNY
11-14-2003, 06:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> Richard Black makes a very fine Cue. I have owned a few of his Cues. Lots of Cue Makers make very fine Cues. JossWest, Ingram, Scruggs, Gilbert, Auerbach Custom Cues &amp; many others do too.

<hr /></blockquote>thank you for that! I searched scruggs cues and wow....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3637551495&amp;category=21 212

if only it had a wrap. I'm obsessed over white linen wraps.

Rich R.
11-14-2003, 06:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SteveFromNY:</font><hr> what other custom cue makers out there make cues that look like the bushka AND play well.
<hr /></blockquote>
As long as you are dealing with "custom" cue makers, any one of them can make you a cue in the "Bushka" style. Find a maker who makes cues that you like and then sit down with him and determine what yours will look like.
That way, you get a cue, to your liking, and it is not the cookie cutter style of hundreds of other cues. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Be aware, the custom process, from conception to finished cue, takes some time.

SteveFromNY
11-14-2003, 06:42 AM
hmm...i went to the gilbert cues site and his cues are very inexpensive. a lot of them are under 1000 bucks. Does the "pay for the you get" maxim apply to the custom cue-buying process?<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SteveFromNY:</font><hr> what other custom cue makers out there make cues that look like the bushka AND play well.
<hr /></blockquote>
As long as you are dealing with "custom" cue makers, any one of them can make you a cue in the "Bushka" style. Find a maker who makes cues that you like and then sit down with him and determine what yours will look like.
That way, you get a cue, to your liking, and it is not the cookie cutter style of hundreds of other cues. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Be aware, the custom process, from conception to finished cue, takes some time. <hr /></blockquote>

SteveFromNY
11-14-2003, 07:22 AM
how are Jacoby custom cues? this one is nice!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3637495301&amp;category=21 212

Popcorn
11-14-2003, 07:30 AM
I use Fedx for international, but I use both Fedx and UPS within the US. I have never had a problem with either one, but some people do prefer Fedx. I don't really know the difference, if there is, I would be curious to know? I would never ship a cue with the post office. They once lost one I sent (Years ago) and it took nine months to collect on the insurance. Another was a COD. for $550.00. They they delivered it and never collected the money. The postal people actually asked me if I could collect it for them and they would refund me the COD. portion of the shipping. When I called the buyer, the maid answered and said yes the cue had arrived. Later though, no one would admit they ever got the cue. After jumping through a bunch of hoops the post office paid me (again after about nine months).

Fred Agnir
11-14-2003, 07:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rick the stick:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred:</font><hr>Ray Schuler

Fred <hr /></blockquote>


Well hot damn Fred, we finally have sometin in common, I've played with a Schuler since 1985, you should be nicer to me. Don't mess with rick, mess with my wa it aint pretty. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>You'd think you've been reading this group long enough to know that I shoot with Ray Schuler cues. But then again, why would I think you actually absorb anything on this group?

I also have shot with Triangle tips (your favorite) longer than I've shot with Schuler Cues. If you or your lemmings paid any sort of attention (doubtful), you'd have known that, too.

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't want to mess with Rick's "wa"

Rich R.
11-14-2003, 08:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SteveFromNY:</font><hr> hmm...i went to the gilbert cues site and his cues are very inexpensive. a lot of them are under 1000 bucks. Does the "pay for the you get" maxim apply to the custom cue-buying process? <hr /></blockquote>
The important thing is that you find a cue maker you like first.
Then get together to design a cue with the look you want. The price will be based, a lot, on that design.

It is very difficult to compare the price of different cues. Every little design element you add, also adds to the price. Also, cue makers all charge a little different for these design elements.

Some of the real Balabuska cues were relatively plain. If you want a cue like one of them, it would be relatively inexpensive, depending on the cue maker. When you start adding inlays and ring work, the price will go up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Eric.
11-14-2003, 11:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rick the stick:</font><hr>


Don't mess with rick, mess with my wa it aint pretty. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't want to mess with Rick's "wa" <hr /></blockquote>

Don't blame ya, Fred. Nobody wants to see Fast Rick's little "Wa" and I agree that it probably ain't pretty either /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Eric &gt;not interested in "Wa's"

SteveFromNY
11-14-2003, 12:12 PM
Thanks for the insight Rich. Herein lies another dilemma. How do I know which cuemaker to go by? I guess what it comes down to is personal experience with different makers' cues which I don't have a lot of. Is there an unofficial list of some sort that at least gives us names of experienced makers who make also incorporate good playability with their cues? So far, I've only heard of ryan phillipe, michael capone, tim scruggs, coker, and bludworth that offer a mix of playability and aesthetics. Are there any other makers out there I should be aware of?<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SteveFromNY:</font><hr> hmm...i went to the gilbert cues site and his cues are very inexpensive. a lot of them are under 1000 bucks. Does the "pay for the you get" maxim apply to the custom cue-buying process? <hr /></blockquote>
The important thing is that you find a cue maker you like first.
Then get together to design a cue with the look you want. The price will be based, a lot, on that design.

It is very difficult to compare the price of different cues. Every little design element you add, also adds to the price. Also, cue makers all charge a little different for these design elements.

Some of the real Balabuska cues were relatively plain. If you want a cue like one of them, it would be relatively inexpensive, depending on the cue maker. When you start adding inlays and ring work, the price will go up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Rod
11-14-2003, 12:53 PM
Steve,

Take your time and learn more before you invest. Certain cues are different for several reasons. Stiff or soft has more to do with the shaft size, taper and tip used than any other reason. If you put a Predator shaft (just like yours) on any cue it is subject to play/feel very near to your present cue. Different construction and joint material may change it slightly. Your Viking had a 13mm shaft with a pro taper, and I believe a LePro tip. Other makers shafts will vary and as I said that makes the biggest difference in how they play/feel. JMHO

Rod

SteveFromNY
11-14-2003, 01:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Steve,

Take your time and learn more before you invest. Certain cues are different for several reasons. Stiff or soft has more to do with the shaft size, taper and tip used than any other reason. If you put a Predator shaft (just like yours) on any cue it is subject to play/feel very near to your present cue. Different construction and joint material may change it slightly. Your Viking had a 13mm shaft with a pro taper, and I believe a LePro tip. Other makers shafts will vary and as I said that makes the biggest difference in how they play/feel. JMHO

Rod


<hr /></blockquote>I actually put a med Moori tip on the 314 and shaved it down to about 12.75. I noticed a world of a difference with the moori, maybe too much of a difference to get used to at first but I quickly got used to it. So I would be right to avoid ivory ferrules right? Also, what kind of joint supports 314's in the event that I decide to put one on later. Thanks.

Rich R.
11-14-2003, 02:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SteveFromNY:</font><hr> Herein lies another dilemma. How do I know which cuemaker to go by? I guess what it comes down to is personal experience with different makers' cues which I don't have a lot of. Is there an unofficial list of some sort that at least gives us names of experienced makers who make also incorporate good playability with their cues? So far, I've only heard of ryan phillipe, michael capone, tim scruggs, coker, and bludworth that offer a mix of playability and aesthetics. Are there any other makers out there I should be aware of?<hr /></blockquote>
There are a ton of cue makers out there. A good starting point is the membership roster of the American Cuemakers Association.
http://www.cuemakers.org/

There are also a lot of other cuemakers, who are not members of that association. Fellow CCB'er, Blackheart, makes excellent cues, but is not a member.
As I said, the list is only a starting point.

You will never be able to try a cue by every good cue maker. No matter how many you try, there is most likely a better one out there. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Try as many as you can and find one that you like. Concentrate on the cuemakers near your location first. If you choose one of them to make your cue, you can visit his shop and discuss your design needs in person. That is always a good thing.

Good luck and happy shopping. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rod
11-14-2003, 05:05 PM
Predators are made for most threads, you just need a cue maker or qualified shop to fit the shaft. Sometimes they don't need any fitting. Here is a site with more info -- Shafts (http://www.billiardsexpress.com/1predatorshaft.htm) Yes you can save yourself some money because you don't need a cue with an ivory ferrule.