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wolfdancer
11-24-2003, 10:20 AM
Or..Close encounters of the....
In this morning's Chron:
yesterday a woman unleashes her pit bull in the park, and a mounted policeman sees this, and yells for her to stop. The dog now focuses on the horse,AAA.Andy ( what kinda name is that?...I could identify with an AA Andy, but..) and attacks
In the ensuing melee, the cop gets thrown to the ground and the horse kicks the woman in the head. Andy has had enough, and decides to ride off into the sunset, but the dog loves a good chase. Another cop intervenes, and quoting the newspaper "dog sinks teeth into horse; cop sinks bullet into dog". End result is the cop and woman go to the hospital, the horses hopes of being a Kentucky, or even a Hamiltucky Derby winner, are shattered....but the dog survives the gunshot.
The hero here is the dog, sticking up for his god-given right to roam freely, with a playful nip here and there.

ras314
11-24-2003, 10:45 AM
Many dogs will attack when they think there is a threat, either to themselves or the owner. Anyone on a horse yelling is liable to be seen as a threat. I think the dog did what it was suposed to. Should have been kept on the leash though.

Pit bull I had was uncontrolable once started after anything. Shocking collars, water, ect were ignored. This dog was a "real" pit, litter mates were fought in the pit for big money.

CarolNYC
11-25-2003, 04:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
a woman unleashes her pit bull in the park <hr /></blockquote>
The owner shoulda been put in jail or shot-I feel, whenever an animal(pet) attacks, if it was off the leash, the owner should pay the penalty, not the animal!I had two pitbulls and because they have 1700 lbs. of pressure per square inch in their jaw, duhhhhhh, hello, dont let them loose!Jeesh!I dont know if you've ever been bitten by a pit or seen two of them go at it, but one time, I dropped a treat by accident and they both went for it,well, they went for eachother and I freaked and put my hand in between them and my larger one (100 lbs.) caught my hand in his jaws! I tell you he crushed my hand like it was butter and when he realized he had my hand, he released it-(still have the scar) -if you raise an animal with hate and viciousness, then thats what he'll become-but if you raise it with love and kindness, you'll have a loyal companion forever and thats why my dog released my hand-
I blame the owner! /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Carol

Qtec
11-25-2003, 07:09 AM
I hope you dont condone dog fighting?

IMO you have to be sick if you can gain pleasure out of watching two dogs tearing each other apart.

Q

Kato
11-25-2003, 07:17 AM
I don't agree with you often Q but I do on this. There is very little less disgusting in the world than dog fighting.

Kato~~~life long dog owner and lover.

ras314
11-25-2003, 08:41 AM
I've never been to a dog fight, so don't know whether I would condone it or not. Have you? I do admire gameness in dogs. Or chickens, and I have raised and shown game chickens in the pit.

More disgusting in my view is the indiscriminate breeding of a popular breed so more can be sold. Too much of this has been done with pit bulls.

ras314
11-25-2003, 09:24 AM
Carol,

I agree, owners are responsible for the actions of their animals.

A woman once thought she knew my pit well and put her baby down next to it. The dog immediately "adopted" the baby, everything was fine until the woman tried to pick up her child and the dog attacked. I literally caught the dog in mid air to keep it from doing some serious damage. Animals do not have the judgement of people.

CarolNYC
11-25-2003, 12:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Animals do not have the judgement of people. <hr /></blockquote>
Hi there,
As a matter of fact, I think it did take on a "people"judgement-it was protecting what "it" thought was its child-
I, personnally, am an animal lover-a normal person buys a pet to love it and in return receives unconditional love back and protection-the dog is only doing what is natural-to love and protect, like a parent-I believe any parent wuld kill for their child as a dog would for its owner-the thing with pitbulls is, some people are bad and use them as weapons because they are a strong dog,just like Rottweilers, Shepherds, etc.If you unleash any strong dog, you might as well be firing a gun-I feel the owner should be penalized to the max-no doubt-not only that, they are interbred so much,(mother/son) that some come out as wackos-and then thats a terrible situation-I knew someone who had two Rottweilers and he fed them raw meat and blood-thats all those dogs knew-talk about vicious-these dogs were bad,but lo and behold, they wound up mauling him and ,God forgive me, but I said "ha ha"-the dogs were put down, they had to be,but HE trained them that way-
I also know someone who would beat his dog with a milk container, so anyone holding a milk container would get attacked-it was a learned process-I think if someone beat me with a milk container and came walking up to me with one, I'd be fighting for my life-its just a shame-the laws should be stricter against owners and maybe that would stop some attacks that occur-
I dont know, I dont believe,besides wild animals, that dogs are just BORN mean-its the owners who train them that way!
Take care!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

cheesemouse
11-25-2003, 01:23 PM
Bad Breed...Big Problems

Most communities have written bred specific ordinances that deal with the pit bull. While my town hasn't one on the books there is an unwritten rule the cops go by. If someone gets a pit bull or an inbred one they get a friendly visit from the cops and are politely educated. If any of the police are called to a pit bull incident and the owner of the dog doesn't have it under complete control when they arrive the dog is shot immediately. I play golf with two cops that have over 20 years experience each, they don't mess with this breed. They say that every owner of pits they know has had legal problems because of their pit bull. One local man lost everything he had when his dog bit a young girl and the courts awarded the parents of the girl big dollars. I know the guy and he thinks he got screwed...you talk about dense...geez

There is no reason for this breed and I think they all should be put down. I am a dog lover and know alot about the different breeds and the pit bull is the only breed that is totally out of control and unpredictable even to the owners. All you have to do is have one incident with a pit bull and you will be converted.

I live one block off a college campus and many of the houses around me rent to college students. Two years ago this student arrived with his pit. He lived across the alley from me. I walk my dog every night and when I'd leave the house with my dog on the leash this pit bull would go absolutely nuts. He would run to the end of his cable and go air born, the cable snapping him back to the ground whereupon the little beast would repeat the action until we were gone from the alley. The dog only lasted two months. The owner of the property had told the student to get rid of the dog or get out. When the student did not follow this advise the property owner walked into the back yard and shot the dog and handed the student an eviction notice. The student left town at the end of that semester because he didn't think the people were very friendly around here...imagine that!

Sorry for the rant but this is a pet peeve of mine. I had taken to carrying a hand gun on my dog walks for the specific purpose of shooting this dog if his cable ever snapped. I shouldn't have been driven to carrying a gun on my dogs walks, I don't even own a gun. I had to borrow the gun from a buddy but I wouldn't have hesitated for a second to blow this little monsters ass away had he gotten loose. I have no respect for pit bull owners or anyone who defends the ownership of these dogs.

Do a google search on pit bull legal problems...if you own a pit bull you have everything you own riding on that dog...there isn't a court in this land that will side with you under any circumstances if your pit fuggs up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif Go ahead enjoy your pit with that kind of responsiblity placed on an out of control breed. You will deserve everything bit of grief you get...once again sorry for the rant but hey....

ras314
11-25-2003, 02:29 PM
Last I checked german shepards were involved with more attacks on people, particularly their owners, than any other breed. But then there are a lot of them.

Trouble with pits is they have to be physically stopped and probably won't be bluffed off. Certinaly will agree there are too many people that have them and don't know what they have. Personally I don't want any dog if I have to live in town.

Now I have wolves introduced into my area. Of course no one is responsible for damage they might do.

Barbara
11-25-2003, 02:47 PM
Carol,

Talk about some protection -

There was a story on the news last night that this one K-9 officer and his dog were searching on foot for two robbery suspects when the officer stumbles, hits his head, and goes unconscious. The police dog is on the heels of the suspects and does not know what happened. The police dog bites the suspects a couple times, then backtracks to find his officer/handler. The suspects follow the police dog because they want to get the officer's gun. The police dog then fends off both suspects from further injuring the officer.

The suspects were later caught and the officer is fine and out of the hospital.

Barbara

CarolNYC
11-26-2003, 04:02 AM
"Turner and Hooch!"
This is not your room!ha ha ha ha
Have a nice Thanksgiving Barb!
Carol:):):)

CarolNYC
11-26-2003, 04:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
the owner of the dog doesn't have it under complete control <hr /></blockquote>
Cheesemouse,
Im so sorry you had such a horrible encounter-its like being bitten by a dog and then being scared of dogs forever-by I truly feel you shouldnt condemn the breed-I feel every owner of a dog should be held totally responsible for its actions-and yes, I agree that this is a dog that must be raised with love because if they bite, they crush-massive damage can occur-I dont know, maybe mine were just the cream of the crop because I saved them from abuse-I never had a problem with them and raised them with 3 children-they wore pink collars,ha ha ha-now the dog I fear is the Doberman-those I feel are unpredictable and when they bite, they rip and tear and usually the owners have these big a$$ spiked collars around their necks-my sister-in-law has this little chihauhua, well, this little brat bit my finger and I wanted to ring its little neck-Im scared of the damn thing,ha ha ha ha-talk about ironic-
Anyways, Im sorry you had to go through what you went through! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif
You take care!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

CarolNYC
11-26-2003, 04:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
have to be physically stopped <hr /></blockquote>
But they dont have to be physically stopped=my one was deaf and I took proper precautions with him because unless he saw my handsignal,I would be in big trouble, but my brindle,all I had to do was say the word "CUT" and he would lay down immediately-I could go on and on but I'll end it-I understand people fear the breed, but its not the breed you should fear, its the owner!
Stay well,
Carol

wolfdancer
11-26-2003, 10:34 AM
Carol, here's the tragic part of the story....the woman is a social worker....the dog had been tested for any signs of bad-temper, and it was trained to get along with people. she used it to bring some cheer to the elderly, and the homeless.
But, the dog had never seen a horse before, not even Seabiscuit...and when he hear's the shouts, and looks up to see this strange animal riding toward him....
She got kicked in the face, and suffered a fractured skull.
The dog will survive, despite being shot twice, and won't be put to death.

ras314
11-26-2003, 04:54 PM
Carol, there can be a considerable difference in temperament even in full siblings. Mine was more or less a pet around people but hated bicycles so always kept it chained while in a truck. Once excited she would go beserk and there was no stopping her. Whole head would swell up till eyes were little slits. Not a pretty sight. Unlike most dogs this one had a one track mind, all I could do was wade in and grab her. No worry about getting bit.

Did get stung once dragging her out of a jellowjacket nest, fool dog just stayed in them trying to snap every wasp.

I'll admit this would have been a very easy dog to turn mean.

Most dangerous dog I've had was a Chesapeake Bay Retriever. It had a harder bite than the pit and was a whole lot smarter. Could kill hogs in seconds. And it was not friendly with anyone.

So why not add Chesapeaks to the list of "bad breeds"?

CarolNYC
11-26-2003, 06:21 PM
I sympathasize with the situation, but she "still unleashed her pet" ya know?
Carol

CarolNYC
11-26-2003, 06:49 PM
Ras,
Its just like dogs chasing after cats-what is the reasoning?
A funny thing happened one time-my brother-in-law Anthony was housesitiing for a week while I took my kids to Walt Disney World-well, (now you gotta picture this being said in a strong Brookly-Italian accent)one day Uncle J0-J0 comes to pick him up to take him to Brooklyn-he sits on the couch and Ninja, the 100 lbs. one sits right next to him growling-well, he starts calling "Ant,come here"-Anthony walks in and tells Jo-Jo" I have good news and bad news- the good news is if you dont move, you wont get bit but the bad news is if he does bite you, I cant call him off cause he's deaf"-talk about worse case scenario-anyways, he phones me and I give him the signals, the dog got down and J0-jo tore a$$ outta that house and hasnt been back,ha ah a ah-thank God Ninja listened cause I really think he woulda beeen a dead dog,ha ah aha-
No Matter what, I love animals and Ive always felt that the way a man treats his dog is the way he will treat his lady!:):):)
Take Care!
Have a nice Thankksgicing!
Carol!owns a totally useless pug-but loves him with all my heart!:):):):)

Barbara
11-26-2003, 07:24 PM
My hubby is smarter than me-

The K9 dog found out his handler was disabled and bit the runaway suspects to disable them and then sat by his officer/handler. The suspects in the robbery case ran off.

The K9 dog sat at guard for his officer/handler and would not budge for other officers. Another K9 team had to be called in and the handler/officer and dog was familiar with the dog and injured officer.

The K9 dog guarding the officer was controlled and let goand is okay, as well as the officer.

Talk about loyalty. Give me a German Shepherd dog any day. Love them.

Or a Pug. Or a Papillion. Or a Neapolitan Mastiff... I love dogs, always have. But I love my Cats more now....and they don't need baths!!!!

Barbara~~~yeah, don't sweat the petty things and just pet the sweaty things....

Ralph S.
11-26-2003, 11:02 PM
I agree that the woman who let the dog off the leash was at fault and can not and should not be bitter or upset in any way. This is one reason why virtually all major cities and towns have leash laws.

CarolNYC
11-27-2003, 04:37 AM
Hey Barb,
Did you know that K-9's are actually police officers?They are one of the smartest dogs I've of ever heard of-a few weeks ago, my brother was at a terrible hit&amp;run scene where two elderly people died and the other guy ran-well, they called in the K-9's-these dog actually traced the path right to this guys house-of course, he wasnt home, but turned hinself in the next day! Unbelievable!
And I KNOW you are a catlover,saw the photos:):):)- me too!
As for pugs, Jim calls him useless,but he;s not-he CAN bark,ha ha ha /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!
Carol:):):) /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

heater451
11-29-2003, 10:11 AM
Okay--I've started on two posts, which threatened to take on epic proportions, so I've scrapped them.

Not that this will necessarily change anyone's mind about the breed, but maybe some people will learn something (I think I've already posted this, months ago):

The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) FAQ (http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbtfaqcov.html)


If you don't feel like reading, keep these things in mind:

1) Cocker Spaniels attack more people than Pit Bulls do. (This is a statistics trick--more people own spaniels. However, I will add that the only dog that ever bit me (and I was still a child) was a Cocker Spaniel.

2) The term "Pitbull" is applied to many dogs--often breeds which are not even related to the 'bull' or even mastiff line(s). Ignorance of dog breeds also leads to stories of "Pit Bull" attacks, which are about other dogs, but the pits get the bad reputation.

3) The term "Pitbull" is also too easily applied to a mix-breed dog, which resembles a true Pit Bull (Terrier), but it's temperament is a crapshoot.

4) Even if a dog is pure-bred, the owner is not. A Pit takes a lot more attention, than your average Labrador. You also can't just chain one in the backyard--this would drive a toy poodle insane, and not just a Pit. (Pit Bulls, IMO, require a more human contact than other breeds, and it's even worse on them, to abandon them in the backyard.) A Pit Bull owner should treat his dog like a handgun--proper care in handling is essential. And, it shouldn't need to be said, but if you still have fears about your own dog, you shouldn't own the dog. [BTW, if you could check into the owners of 'dogs gone wild', I would be you would find most of them shouldn't own any dog, regardless of breed.--Take for instance, the idiots that put logging chains or spike collars on their dogs. . . .]

5) It's been said (regarding Pit Bulls), "A dog that would never think of starting a fight, will also never think of backing down from one." In the case of an accident, an owner MUST also be willing and able to take control of his dog.


Before I stat running long again, I will just stop here.


=============================

ras314
11-29-2003, 11:58 AM
Heater,
Thanks for the link. A good description of the difference between aggresive and game. Most people don't realise they aren't the same.

I've seen the "breaking stick" demonstrated. Never any danger of either handler getting bit, wouldn't want to try it with most other breeds.

Mine would not bark or growl when it decided to fight. She once tangled up with a bear through a fence, most blood was from trying to bite thru the fence wire. From then on she never barked at bears, just went for them. One reason I always kept her in a fence, about 5 acres.

CarolNYC
11-29-2003, 12:13 PM
http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/WWIPitWithFlag.jpg
Hey there Heater,
Not only that, but I believe they were used on posters (in World War I or II)as power and strength-oh yeah!
Take care!
Carol:):):)