PDA

View Full Version : Cue Cases



dsb0t
11-24-2003, 05:49 PM
Hey, I am going to pick up a new case for my cue. I am just wondering have you guys had any experiences with these cases or brand:

1) http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cases/instroke/instroke_premeir_1x1-black.htm

2) http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cases/giuseppe/guiseppe_1x1.htm

3) http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cases/porper/porper_designer_cases.htm

I know the instroke case is more expensive then the rest. I am just wondering if it is a better case? (solid, better quality). The billiard store in my area only had the giuseppe and the porper. Just wondering what you guys think of each. Thanks! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sid_Vicious
11-24-2003, 06:10 PM
Looking back I learned one thing, buy a bigger case than a 1-1. I have one, a Porper that is simply for storage now. From the three you mentioned, I rank them this way:

Porper is the economical way to go, a solid good case for most purposes.

Giuseppe is a case that won't let you down, less in cost that the Instroke, has the functional features though.

Instroke is a case you'll see the most, not that it is the best, just a popular case over the years.

Bottom line is that I'd suggest the Giuseppe in a 1-2(as a minimum), Porper 1-2 as a second choice if the budget is an absolute issue, 2-4 format preferably in either case. The thing you want in this is a long pouch(for adding a jump cue butt)and the room to add a cue, cuz you will my friend, trust me. We're talking about small money in the grand scheme of things.

If you are dead set on a 1-1, then the Porper makes good sense...sid

JimS
11-24-2003, 06:48 PM
Sid is right. You'll be sorrrrrryyyy...if you get the 1 cue case. One of these days you'll have a custom cue w/two shafts AND you'll be carrying a break cue AND you'll probably have a jump cue..so that'll be four shafts and two butts and one jump butt to carry in the long pouch so you want a LONG pouch.

Another thing that has become important to me is that the butt go into the case big end down so I can use the case as a cue stand. They sell case clamps and I made my own so that I can clamp the case to a chair or table and then put the cue butt down in it between shots. I don't like leaning my cue against the table or in the back of a folding chair etc. The instroke will work with the butt down but my Porper will not..don't know about the Guiespee (sp?).

Another really nice production case is the Talisman. If I were going to pay as much as an Instroke costs I'd get the Talisman. They have double straps on the back so you can wear it like a backpak, Zippers along the whole side of the pocket and a top opening, leather lined tubes, seperate pocket for chalk etc. I have an Instroke and I wish they'd have had the Talisman available when I bought mine.

Given all factors I'd recommend the Talisman or if you want a really nice case get a Justis or a Whitten. Whitten has been marketing his on eBay, 1 case a week, that ends up going for a just teensy bit less than retail week after week. Beautiful....a work of art!

Rod
11-24-2003, 07:05 PM
It depends on how many cubic dollars you have. I'm not the "trendy" pool player so a Porper is more than adequit. As mentioned don't buy a 1x1. Buy a 3X6, Your play cue, a break cue and a jump cue plus lots of room for extra shafts. You can then use the pouch'es for other items if you choose. Don't feel you have to have a high dollar case to protect the furniture.

Troy
11-24-2003, 07:42 PM
First, I completely agree about NOT getting a 1x1 case. I suggest a mimimum of 2x4.
Second, I can recommend the Giuseppe 'cuz I've been using a 3x6 for over 5 years -- great case for the price.
Third, if Talisman had a 3x6, I would probably have one.

Troy

Fred Agnir
11-24-2003, 08:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dsb0t:</font><hr> Hey, I am going to pick up a new case for my cue. I am just wondering have you guys had any experiences with these cases or brand:

1) http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cases/instroke/instroke_premeir_1x1-black.htm

2) http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cases/giuseppe/guiseppe_1x1.htm

3) http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cases/porper/porper_designer_cases.htm


<hr /></blockquote>Not everyone has the inclination to go buy a multi-case cue. That being said, if you truly are wanting a 1/1, and these three are your choices, then the Instroke Premier, IMO is the best. The Guiseppe is the worst. That's based on construction. That's also based on looks, as the Instroke Premiere does look like leather, even at arms length. The Instroke Vinyl Premier is everything the Guiseppe wants to be. Well, okay, it also wants to be a Whitten.

All three are adequate for what you're looking to do, which is to house and carry one cue.

When I travel, I carry a 1/1 Guiseppe. So, even if I think it's the worst of the three you mentioned, that's still the one a bring around. However, if I had an Instroke 1/1 Vinyl Premiere, I'd carry that instead.

Fred &lt;~~~ might have to go get me one

pooltchr
11-25-2003, 07:09 AM
The Instroke vinyl case has some issues where they got some bad hardware. I have seen a few of them where the pouch clasp has broken off. Look at the Instroke GEO line. Real leather and great quality at a great price. I have one and it does great. Mine is a 3/7 and is a little bit heavy, but the 3/5 should do for most players.

buddha162
11-25-2003, 08:07 AM
My vote is for the Instroke Premier, and as others have said, don't get a 1x1. A 1x1 Premier at billiardswarehouse is $96; a 2x3 is $119. That's more than double the storage for a fractional increase in price.

The Premier does look like leather, more so than the Geo, which has a greasy sheen to it. Hands down, the best value on the market if you're looking for a no-frills case to protect your cues.

Roger

Fred Agnir
11-25-2003, 08:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> The Instroke vinyl case has some issues where they got some bad hardware. I have seen a few of them where the pouch clasp has broken off. Look at the Instroke GEO line. Real leather and great quality at a great price. I have one and it does great. Mine is a 3/7 and is a little bit heavy, but the 3/5 should do for most players. <hr /></blockquote>The biggest knock on the Instroke Premiere and the Instroke Cowboy is the clasp. But I also know that the latest version is about a zillion times better than the original version.

As far as protection and looks, however, I think the Instroke Premier runs away with it.

Fred

Rich R.
11-25-2003, 08:54 AM
Others have given you plenty of good choices and I won't dispute any of them. However, I would like to bring up a few points.

You choice of a case should, somewhat, depend on your cue and your future plans.

If you have an inexpensive cue, and don't intend to upgrade, I wouldn't spend a ton of money on a top of the line case. With some care, the inexpensive cases will do the job.
On the other hand, if you have an expensive cue, or you plan on buying one in the near future, you may want to put a little extra money into a case.

The bottom line is, don't spend $300 or $400 on a case, to protect a $100 cue. Also, don't spend $50 on a case to protect a $1000 cue.
To me, it just makes sense.

I, also, strongly agree with all who have recommended that you NOT buy a 1x1 case. If you need convincing, visit a good poolroom and see how many of the real players travel with just one cue, with one shaft. I would guess, it ain't many. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Iowashark
11-25-2003, 10:22 AM
I own a Guiseppe 2x2 and an Instroke 2x4 and I love them both, I only take Instroke case to competition when I may need a backup cue. I have a friend who has a Porper and hates it, if you want a great case and aren't concerned about money then Talisman is the way to go.

~~Dave &lt; &lt; &lt; concerned about money.

11-25-2003, 10:55 AM

11-25-2003, 11:00 AM

Fred Agnir
11-25-2003, 11:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> The Porper cases used to be okay. Then they changed the design of the cap that fits over the case. Instead of being made of firm rubber, it is now made with cheap foam/bubble/crap, which gets all bent up when you close the top. <hr /></blockquote>Maybe I don't know what you mean, but my Porper 2/4 that I bought around 1990 does not have solid rubber in the cap. It's more like foam. The knockoffs had more of a solid rubber inside the cap. Maybe you had one of those?

Mr. Barton?


Fred

bluewolf
11-25-2003, 02:08 PM
I do not like the type of case which has holes in the foam in the top that you have to fit your cues into. Even the talisman has these.

I like the recessed type with no 'holes' in the top. So far that means instroke,whitten,justis and any others I dont know about.

I have a used leather instroke cowboy 2x4. I love it.My old leather instroke is better made than ww vinyl one that had the clasp fall off.

The bottom pocket of my used instroke is not large enough to fit the short pieces of the stealth, but I have heard the new cowboy is large enough.

I dont jump anyway, still working on kicking. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Laura

Kato
11-25-2003, 02:37 PM
I have a Guiseppe 2 X 4 and I love it. Looks good, light, holds what I need held, and is holding up very well over time. Plus you can stand your cues up in it.

Don't buy a 1 X 1. Bad choice. Spend the extra money now, you can use them to store extra cues.

Kato~~~thinks everyone has extra cues /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

cycopath
11-25-2003, 02:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> I do not like the type of case which has holes in the foam in the top that you have to fit your cues into. Even the talisman has these.

I like the recessed type with no 'holes' in the top. So far that means instroke,whitten,justis and any others I dont know about.<hr /></blockquote>
Actually my Talisman case has the recessed type with no holes.

Fred Agnir
11-25-2003, 02:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> I do not like the type of case which has holes in the foam in the top that you have to fit your cues into. Even the talisman has these.

I like the recessed type with no 'holes' in the top. So far that means instroke,whitten,justis and any others I dont know about.<hr /></blockquote>
Actually my Talisman case has the recessed type with no holes. <hr /></blockquote> Now I'm all confused. My Whitten has no holes, but I don't believe it has a recessed lid. It's zipper-closed, with a flush interior and looks like the Guiseppe (or vice versa). I think.

Fred

cycopath
11-25-2003, 02:57 PM
http://www.talismanbilliards.com/images/f_interiop.jpg

The lid is actually at the bottom of the pic. You are staring into the case with the lid open toward your body. You can see how the inside of the top is recessed.

Fred Agnir
11-25-2003, 03:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr> http://www.talismanbilliards.com/images/f_interiop.jpg

The lid is actually at the bottom of the pic. You are staring into the case with the lid open toward your body. You can see how the inside of the top is recessed. <hr /></blockquote>Right. I was confused as to why Laura included the Whitten in the "recessed lid" group.

Fred

buddha162
11-25-2003, 05:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> My strap/metal clasp broke while I was picking up the case. Now I am thinking about getting a Whittin strap with the cushion shoulder pad, which is a must. <hr /></blockquote>

When did you get your Premier? I just got mine last week and I believe they've reinforced many of the problem areas, like the clasp. Please tell me my case is not going to hit the floor with all my cues inside!

Thanks,
roger

griffith_d
11-25-2003, 05:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> The Instroke vinyl case has some issues where they got some bad hardware. I have seen a few of them where the pouch clasp has broken off. Look at the Instroke GEO line. Real leather and great quality at a great price. I have one and it does great. Mine is a 3/7 and is a little bit heavy, but the 3/5 should do for most players. <hr /></blockquote>

I also have the Geo 3x7 Black. For the money it is a heavy duty case and looks good and good protection. If Talisman would have had at least a 3x6 I would have bought one,...(sorry Tony).

If money allows, buy a case for expansion, at least a 2x2,..for your breaking and playing cues.

Griff

Fleece3
11-26-2003, 05:02 AM
I concur, A 1x1 case is a total waste. I bought one and used it for all of 2 weeks. First I got a break cue, then a predator shaft. Result, 1x1 never used, 2x2 seldom used. Meet me at Amsterdam and I will give you the 1x1 (action case). But listen to everyone up here...do not buy a 1x1.

JimS
11-26-2003, 06:22 AM
I'm using a 3x7 Instroke and plan to buy a 3x6 Whitten soon. I'd also be thinking very strongly about a 3x6 Talisman if it were available. Hope you are listening Tony! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Steve - Detroit
11-26-2003, 09:26 AM
I bought the 1/1 Guiseppe about 3 years ago and have yet to wish I'd bought something bigger. Although I own several cues, I never feel the need or have the desire to take more than one on any given trip to the ph, but that's just me. Obviously this opinion is very much in the minority here but if you don't have the NEED for multiple slots, a 1/1 works just fine.

JohnBarton
11-26-2003, 10:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dsb0t:</font><hr> Hey, I am going to pick up a new case for my cue. I am just wondering have you guys had any experiences with these cases or brand:

1) http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cases/instroke/instroke_premeir_1x1-black.htm

2) http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cases/giuseppe/guiseppe_1x1.htm

3) http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cases/porper/porper_designer_cases.htm

I know the instroke case is more expensive then the rest. I am just wondering if it is a better case? (solid, better quality). The billiard store in my area only had the giuseppe and the porper. Just wondering what you guys think of each. Thanks! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote>

Well, in my not so humble or unbiased opinion, the Instroke is the best case of the three. In fact it is the best case out there. Point for point, Instroke cases provide better protection than the competition. The new Premiers are probably the best value on the market.

As for the size I would reccomend a 2x3. The 2x3 is slightly larger than the 1x2 and because of it's shape, it is a lot less bulky than the 2x4. It is relatively easy to hold the 2x3 in one hand for most people.

Now, the drawback is that you can have the Instroke Premier in any color as long as it's black :-)) That's right it's only available in black. So if fashion is more important than protection you will have a lot more choices in both the Guiseppe and Porper cases on the vinyl side of things.

One of the things that others have mentioned as a feature are the recessed tubes/openings. Instroke pioneered this method and is still the best at it. Cues slide in softly and gently cushioned by foam rubber and a super soft fabric. When the cues are removed they come out with a soft "pop".

The foam rubber lining cushions each cue component against impact so that if your case should somehow fall or get hit hard the cues will be protected from slammming against the interior walls of the case.

Instroke also offers superior moisture protection and insulation against temperature swings.

So, my experience is that Instroke is the best case from the inside out. My experience is also that most people don't care whether the case really does a good job of protecting their cue or even know what a "good job" is. Most people care about how the case looks and how it looks on them. So now you know what I think good protection is and I would counsel you to ask whether any other case you are considering will provide the level of protection you desire.

John Barton, FORMER owner of Instroke, designer of the Instroke case.

JohnBarton
11-26-2003, 10:48 AM
PS. If you are et on a 1x1 then I would urge you to consider the Instroke 1x2. It is only slightly larger than the 1x1 and you can carry a jump cue with it. Instroke is the only company that provides a 1x1,1x2 case with a pocket long enough for a jump cue.

John

woody_968
11-26-2003, 10:57 AM
John, was glad I read your post. I like the instroke cases but have never really liked many of the designes. The one you just posted seems to fit exactly what I am looking for and think I just found my Christmas present to myself /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Fred Agnir
11-26-2003, 11:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve - Detroit:</font><hr> I bought the 1/1 Guiseppe about 3 years ago and have yet to wish I'd bought something bigger. Although I own several cues, I never feel the need or have the desire to take more than one on any given trip to the ph, but that's just me. Obviously this opinion is very much in the minority here but if you don't have the NEED for multiple slots, a 1/1 works just fine. <hr /></blockquote> This friend of mine that has more shooting cues, breaking cues, and jump cues than than most any league division combined carries around a 1/1 It's George. So, it's not unheard of.

As I said before, this forum doesn't really represent the majority of average pool players. This average forum participant spends more money on pool stuff than the average league or recreational player. The original poster if I'm not mistaken just purchased the cue. It's not even warm yet, but the advice is to get a multi-cue case, a break cue, a jump cue, etc.? Sheesh. A guy's got to learn to walk before he learns to run, doesn't he?

I would have regretted not getting a 1/1 case. There's plenty of times that I use one today. The cases I don't ever use are the empty 2/4's.

Fred

TalismanTony
11-27-2003, 09:10 PM
Hi Everyone,

Troy, Griff and JimS. Never one to ignore my customers, I am working on a 3x6 to be released in the first 1/4 next year. Will probably offer this confirguration in both my "Original" and "Tribal" designs.

Have a great Thanksgiving and eat some turkey for me.

Kind regards,
Tony

Talisman Cue Cases - Built by craftsmen to last a lifetime
Tallisman Tips - Official Tip of the 2002 US Open 9Ball Championships

Troy
11-27-2003, 09:36 PM
Thank you Tony !!!!!

cycopath
11-28-2003, 03:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TalismanTony:</font><hr> Hi Everyone,

Troy, Griff and JimS. Never one to ignore my customers, I am working on a 3x6 to be released in the first 1/4 next year. Will probably offer this confirguration in both my "Original" and "Tribal" designs.

Have a great Thanksgiving and eat some turkey for me.

Kind regards,
Tony

Talisman Cue Cases - Built by craftsmen to last a lifetime
Tallisman Tips - Official Tip of the 2002 US Open 9Ball Championships <hr /></blockquote>

Will the new 3x6 case have a larger external dimension than the current 2x4? The reason I ask is because the present case is already so large.

Troy
11-28-2003, 04:50 PM
Looking at the picture of the 2x4 interior, I do not see much "wasted space". Therefore I believe a 3x6 must have a slightly larger external dimension.

I just hope Tony will create an oval case similar to the Guiseppe 3x6 'cus it will stand so much better.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr>
Will the new 3x6 case have a larger external dimension than the current 2x4? The reason I ask is because the present case is already so large. <hr /></blockquote>

JimS
11-28-2003, 06:57 PM
Thanks for the response Tony...and I figured you were on it!

The Cues have to go in butt down so it can be used as a cue holder. The Whitten 3x6 has a nice oval size for standing on it's own.

CarolNYC
11-29-2003, 04:13 AM
Hi there,
I,too, have theInstroke 2x4 and it as has that litte pocket on the side for the jump butt-I think INstrokes are just beautiful cases, but I realized the WEIGHT on my shoulder was wearing me out-who knows, maybe Im getting old,ha ah ha-a friend of mine sent me a website for the Sterling Cue softcase-well, I bought it-holds 4 shafts,two butts and I just lay my jump cue butt in the center-talk about lightweight,I'd carry this around all day and it would feel like a feather-my shoulder no longer hurts me-hooray-but then again, too each his own!You cant beat it for 40 bucks!:):)P)
Good luck!
Carol~www.sterilingcuecases.com-Instroke said they will be coming out with a soft case, but who knows! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

JimS
11-29-2003, 06:35 AM
I tried to get to that website Carol but it didn't work. Could you check that address and maybe post it again. Thanks, Jim

I have a soft case like you describe by Silverfox. The problem with it is that it doesn't stand up very well and it's just not cool! I guess I'd like it better if it had some style...maybe leather with some design or color other than black.

CarolNYC
11-29-2003, 07:18 AM
Sorry Jim,
The sight is www.cuesight.com-once (http://www.cuesight.com-once) you click on it-go to the left under cuecases-find sterling-now, there even cheaper,like 23 bucks!
Once agian, sorry about that!
Have a great day!
Carol:):):P)
ps-click on the first sight billiards supply sale!

Sid_Vicious
11-29-2003, 10:12 AM
I'm no hustler Fred but the only time I use my 1-1 is when I go on a visit to some rural area, such as my old stomping grounds around family, or in a local pub. Carrying anything bigger usually gets people saying "You must be a pro." I'd rather have a lower profile that that, so the 1-1 comes out. It has cobwebs on it today. I simply felt that anything bought below a 2-4 would eventually(shortly in my experience) be outgrown, and the cost difference for a bigger case is marginal to say the least, so why not skip a step? But having said that, I can understand your point about having just purchased a first cue. Most of the general population goes bug-eyed when I tell them that a cue costs $150, some of mine retail for 2K, THAT really throws them for a loop. It's understandable that a first cue buyer might have a bit of the "budget blues" after the cue cost....sid

Scott Lee
11-29-2003, 10:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Carol~www.sterilingcuecases.com-Instroke said they will be coming out with a soft case, but who knows! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
<hr /></blockquote>

Carol...Instroke has already made a soft leather case, but it is a 6x12. I have that case, and for me, it is an absolute dream. Even with 6 butts and 10 shafts, my case weighs a lot less then the hard case Instroke 3x7 filled! It may not afford the "protection" of the MUCH heavier Instroke hard cases, but then my cues stay with me 99% of the time (and I DON'T let them get run over by cars! LOL). In fact, I have (been forced to) put the case in the luggage compartment of an airplane, but there was no damage whatsoever. IIRC, the case I have was produced in small numbers only, and only by the German side of Instroke. I've had mine for three years, and had never seen another one (even with all my travels!) until two weeks ago in S. CA. Tateuts (CCB poster) has the same case I do.

Scott Lee

JimS
11-29-2003, 03:35 PM
Thanks Carol....one suggestion...you have to leave a space or two after any web address that you post or the link won't work. The web never heard of www.cuesight.com-once (http://www.cuesight.com-once) /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif It HAS heard of www.cuesight.com (http://www.cuesight.com) however.

CarolNYC
11-29-2003, 04:30 PM
Oh my Goodness,
6 butts and 10 shafts-way to go! And yes, I have seen some very older cases from instroke that were soft cases-I spoke to the 'American" partner and he was the one who said he was gonna try and come out with soft cases becases so many poeple have requested them-good uck with yours, Im jealous /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif(onlu kidding)
Take care,
Carol:)

griffith_d
11-29-2003, 09:24 PM
I would hope the new 3x6 Talisman will be oval. It looks much better and not so bulky feeling.

Griff

CarolNYC
11-30-2003, 03:05 AM
See Jim, This is why its nice to have a friend like you-your always watching my back-I'll do better next time-PROMISE!
Stay well!
Carol:):) /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
By the way-Rich R. seen my case and thought it was okay if you would like anothers opinion!:):):)

Rich R.
11-30-2003, 07:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> By the way-Rich R. seen my case and thought it was okay if you would like anothers opinion!:):):) <hr /></blockquote>
Did someone mention my name?????? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I did see Carol's new case and it is a charm.

The case is, what some would call, a butterfly style case. It unzips on three sides and opens flat. It has individual soft cloth tubes for each butt and shaft.

At one time, I had a Porper case, in a similar style, but the Porper case did not protect my cues as well as I would like. The cloth tubes were only thin nylon and I found that, when folded and closed, cues were marring each other.
In Carol's case, the cloth tubes are much thicker and softer material and provide much more protection for the cues. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If I had found a case like Carol's first, I may have never bought my J.J. case. However, I do like using my J.J. case as a cue holder, putting cues in butt first and standing it up, and you can not do that with the butterfly type cases.

Scott Lee
12-01-2003, 04:56 AM
Carol...I'm pretty sure the case is not that old. I got it brand new three years ago. To be honest, three of the cues are specialty cues for trick shots, but I used to have to carry two separate cases. This Instroke case allows me to carry all my stuff in one case, plus it has two nice big zippered pockets to carry accessories too! I love this case!

Scott

CarolNYC
12-01-2003, 05:14 AM
Im sorry Scott,
Please forgive me, I did not mean "OLD,old" /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif:):)But a player who has been shooting for quite a while showed me it-it was nice-like I said, I like Instroke, but the weight just kills me-also, the one I have now, I have to send back because the zipper broke and the little latch to close the case snapped off-unbelievable!
Carol~heard scott is VERY young /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

JimS
12-01-2003, 07:33 AM
Carol....you're wrong. It's Scott's cue case that is NOT old...Scott IS old! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

CarolNYC
12-01-2003, 08:46 AM
Jim,
Im cracking up-omg-that is too funny-
Your the best!
Carol~picturing old person with new case ha ha ha! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif