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mjomjo
11-28-2003, 09:49 AM
When I drop down to the table to align my shot my arm and cue are in the proper position to pocket the ball. The moment I begin my warm-up strokes my arm shifts slightly in toward my body causing a slight in-out stroke when contacting the cue ball. A couple of observations if I practice for any length of time and force myself not to move my arm inward. 1.) my accuracy is better particularly for long shots 2.) follow and draw action on the que ball seems to be a bit snappier. 3.) the muscle of the back of my shoulder gets sore.

Does anyone have any feed back on any of this?

Many Thanks,
Mike

cheesemouse
11-28-2003, 10:22 AM
You could be planting your feet slightly out of alignment and then swaying or twisting your hips and shoulders to correct. Try making your feet the last thing moving when you settle in...JAT

phil in sofla
11-28-2003, 06:47 PM
If you stand in your address position without your cue in your hand, and let your grip hand/arm naturally take its position without any muscular stress or effort, that is the mechanically correct line the hand should travel along during the stroke.

If you rotate the hand a little in your normal stance from that neutral position, you have introduced some muscle involvement in keeping the hand along that line, and that tension in the muscle may vary somewhat, as you are trying to move the cue along a line that requires some muscular tension to maintain that line.

If this is the case for you, get the neutral position of the hand set first, and then reconfigure your stance around the (gravitational and muscular) neutral line of the cue. You may find this puts you a little sidewise to your typical address stance line, and that difference is the difference between having to force the cue down a line that isn't entirely natural to your body mechanics, and having your body set in a way that requires no muscular effort to maintain the line.

Burt Kinnester's 'Advanced Fundamentals' video covers this concept if it isn't clear from my discussion above.

Scott Lee
11-29-2003, 04:02 AM
It's only natural that your accuracy and action would improve without the turning in of your hand or arm. Pay particular attention to how you grip the cue. Your grip hand should be pointed straight down, with the fingers curled around the cue gently. Many players tend to put some "wrist twist" into the stroke, as they make contact with the CB. You say you can resist this, but it causes pain in your shoulder. As others have said, this could be related to your foot placement and/or stance. You want to be comfortable, balanced, and basically on a tripod, with your weight about even between your feet, and enough pressure on your bridge hand to make it very sturdy. Too much forward pressure, and you increase the potential for back and shoulder pain...too little pressure, and you'll have a tendency to jump up off the shot. IMO, from what you describe, the pain will go away, as you become more comfortable with the correct way of holding the cue, and swinging through the CB (which you accurately described).

Scott Lee

bluewolf
11-29-2003, 07:27 PM
Gosh. I thought about what you said and the only way I could get my body to do this was by moving my elbow in and out (which i assume is what you are talking about) instead of in the straight pendulum swing. If I were used to doing it this way, and tried to force myself not to, I think I would be tensing some muscles which would result in a sore elbow.

A really nice pendulum stroke like Scott Randy and some others teach is very valuable. Good instructors are worth their weight in gold /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Laura

JimS
11-30-2003, 09:22 AM
A good example of what I think is good grip hand positioning is available on azbilliards. Click on the story about Fisher beats Lee and notice the picture of Allison. One picture is worth.....

mjomjo
12-01-2003, 10:10 AM
Thanks for all the info. Now I have a grip question based on the Allison Fisher picture on AZ Billiards. Allison has a slight bend where her wrist meets the back of her hand. I've been trying to keep the back part of my hand aligned with my lower arm in such a way that I could place a ruler against my lower arm and the back of my hand. It seems to me the position of the cue could be changed by as much as 0.5 inches depending on hand placement. Any thoughts on hand position as it relates to the lower arm.

Again, Many Thanks for all the info.
Mike

12-01-2003, 12:29 PM

Chris Cass
12-01-2003, 05:13 PM
Hey W.W.,

Nice post. I might add to it if I may. I think all players pause on the final stroke. It just so happens that some don't pause long enough to notice, some more pronounced than others. I think it's a mind thing. I happen to understand the importance of the pause. I can't tell you how many times I've told others to seperate the final stroke between their warm up strokes. It does in fact transfer your focus to the body for that slight time. Refered to as "Channeling." That's not a bad thing unless you don't quickly return to the visual focus sence. All this is done quickly anyway, if your solid in your pre-shot routine. IMHO Good job W.W. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sensory Channels:

1) Vision
2) Hearing
3) Touch
4) Body Awareness
5) Thinking (through visualization)
6) Balance
7) Coordination
8) Energy

These are what seperates the big dogs from the little ones. The big dogs fine-tune these systems and that is the difference between them and us.

reference: #### Leonard (Champion)


Regards,

C.C.~~thanks #### Leonard for the article. it's helped me understand my mind and how it works. now, if I can get my body to work. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif