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Candyman
11-28-2003, 12:46 PM
I have been reading Phil Capelle's book, Play Your Best Pool. It is very good and has given me some great instruction.
I am confused on Phil's explanations on deflection and curve. They seem to be rather ambiguous. I know he is right and I am just missing something. Will someone please explain?
This is what Phil writes on deflection:"When the cue ball is struck with english, it does not travel in exactly the same direction as the cue was pointed at address. Hitting the left side of the cue ball causes it to go slightly to the right, and vice versa. This somewhat disturbing phenomenon is known as deflection, or squirt."
He goes on to say, that soft, medium, and hard strokes increase the deflection.

Then, he talks about how curve affects aim:"At the risk of creationg sensory overload, I feel you must know about one final factor that can affect your aim when using english. When the cue ball is struck with a level stick, it will travel in a straight line. The sidespin has virtually no effect on the path of the cue ball. However, if english is applied with a downward blow, the sidespin will cause the cue ball to curve in the direction of the english. For example, if you apply right english, the cue ball will curve to the right and vice versa."
Thanks in advance for your help. Candyman

Cueless Joey
11-28-2003, 01:46 PM
Curve only happens on very soft shots or masse.
Cueball squirt occurs on medium or hard shots.

Tom_In_Cincy
11-28-2003, 02:00 PM
Two different reactions.

One (the first description) is Squirt.

The second is a masse shot.

JimS
11-28-2003, 03:17 PM
Not much more to say than what's been said above: Level stick and english or lots of english will cause squirt while english struck with a downward blow causes curve/masse. Try it and you'll understand it.

Keith Talent
11-28-2003, 04:43 PM
A few things I found after I read that book and tried to work through a lot of that stuff ...

It's helpful to set up a piece of chalk on the rail and aim at it from different places with different cueing and speed, and observe the amount of deflection and/or curve you get on different types of shots.

Fun part is trying to determine on, say, a medium shot with low-outside, where curve begins to predominate over deflection ... all depends on how far, how hard and how much juice.

Then it's just a lot repetition till you've stored the aiming points in your memory.

Troy
11-28-2003, 04:52 PM
Or you could use back hand english.

JimS
11-28-2003, 04:56 PM
Ut oh! Where's TonyM when I need him? I've always been confused about the back hand english thing.

Scott Lee
11-28-2003, 05:14 PM
Lock...This is exactly why I suggested to you that the majority of your shots should be played with no, or an absolute minimum of english (sidespin); until you have a very high percentage accuracy playing the CB for position without sidespin. IMO, many players never REALLY learn what happens, and where the CB goes just shooting on the vertical axis of the CB. Consequently they are playing sidespin when it is not needed, and frequently having some unanticipated reaction when the CB hits a rail. Playing with english requires excellent guesswork, and gets more difficult the farther out you stroke the CB from center, and the harder you shoot! In the BCA video, "How To Play Pool Right", Jerry Briesath shows an excellent example of deflection or squirt, and how much offline the CB goes with a minimum effort, but way out on the edge of the CB. Elevating the cue, as was described by Phil and others here, results in a masse...which will still squirt the opposite direction from the side of the CB you strike, but then 'curve' back towards the centerline. Masse is barely understood by pros, and they frequently avoid it. You see many more amateur players trying to use it (although I have seen some amateurs with a very high degree of skill at masse). Bottom line is that masse is a very low percentage application for the majority of poolplayers. English with a relatively level cue is difficult enough to master (because of the 'guesswork' involved...how much to play, how hard to hit, etc.) /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif! LOL

Scott Lee

Chris Cass
11-28-2003, 05:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> "How To Play Pool Right", Jerry Briesath shows an excellent example of deflection or squirt, LOL

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

I do agree 100%. Jerry explains this very well. He takes a cue and holds it sideways then strikes the cb on the right side with the joint area of the cue and the cb goes to the left. Makes sence to me. So, when puting right english on the cb the ball first starts off in the left direction. Simple stuff manard. I also agree with the rest of your post too. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW Scott, Happy Holidays. When you coming my way boss?

Regards,

C.C.

ras314
11-28-2003, 05:48 PM
Uh, what the heck is back hand english? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Troy
11-28-2003, 07:22 PM
Well Jim &amp; RAS314, I'll give it a try. The way back hand english was explained to me is ---

Aim normally with zero english. Before your stroke, create l/r english by moving your GRIP hand r/l for X tip/s of english. Do NOT create the english by moving your bridge hand.

Troy

Scott Lee
11-29-2003, 03:51 AM
Chris...I should be coming through Moline during the third week in January, on my way to Chicago. I definitely am planning to stop in and see you, Heide and Spike again! Hopefully, this time YOU can play some too! LOL Can't wait to see that Szamboti!

Scott

JimS
11-29-2003, 06:40 AM
Scott &amp; Chris,

Are we going to get together here? I'll need to know which day so I can adjust my work schedule. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fred Agnir
11-29-2003, 09:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Candyman:</font><hr> I have been reading Phil Capelle's book, Play Your Best Pool. It is very good and has given me some great instruction.
I am confused on Phil's explanations on deflection and curve. <hr /></blockquote>http://www.duke.edu/~rulmer/poolterms.htm

Probably the best explanation on the net.

Fred

Candyman
11-29-2003, 06:55 PM
Scott, I promise not to let the english get out of hand. The only times I do use english is on short throw shots or on ob's close to a pocket, where I need to spin the cb off a rail for position. Cueless Joey explained the difference pretty well. It's a speed thing. Duh! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I have been working on the curve shot for those times a ball is slightly blocking the path I need. I didn't realize how crucial the stroke speed was. Thanks to everybody who responded. I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. Lock /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif