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View Full Version : Trimming new tips and not scraping the ferrule?



JimS
11-30-2003, 01:28 PM
There's nobody around here that does tips....at least nobody within 50 miles, that knows what they are doing. So, I bought a Willard on eBay a year or so ago and I've done 6 to 10 tips.

The problem I've run into on every install is that the trimmer in the Willard always seems to cut into the ferrule on one side or another and then I spend a lot of time cleaning up that mess. I've only done my own cues.

How do you trim the tip without damaging the ferrule. I know..use a lathe. Don't have access to one. Any ideas how to spin the shaft? I"ve got one of those pocket lathe dohickys that were being sold on another site a year or so ago but don't have a way to hold the cue down or to spin it.

tateuts
11-30-2003, 02:00 PM
Jim,

I have my own technique - I'm not sure if it's the best but it works for me.

After gluing on the oversize tips, I put the shaft tip down on some newspaper and use an exacto blade to shave off the excess (cutting downward and working my way around the shaft). The important thing is to try not to take off too much and watch out to not shave the ferrule.

I bought some thin self adhesive velcro strips and glued them next to the edge of a work table. Then, you know those round velcro loop sanding pads for orbital sanders? Well, I just take a 150 grit pad and put it down flat on the strips. You can also just tape a sheet of sandpaper down to a table. I mask off the ferrule with tape. I just grab the shaft and move the sides of the tip forward and backward (not sideways) flat over the sandpaper at the same time slowly turning the shaft until the tip edges are flush - it only takes a few minutes. The ferrule will be a little scraped where it comes in contact with the tip. The I change the pad to 320, and touch up the ferrule and tip sides with 400/600 by hand, wet the tip sides with water and burnish it with leather.

The forward and backward sanding is less damaging to the ferrule then spinning the shaft around and any scratches easily come out.

Chris

PQQLK9
11-30-2003, 02:15 PM
http://www.seyberts.com/cue_accessories/tiptools/images/cutrite.jpg

I use this






The Cut-Rite pool cue tip shaper/cutter is a very handy tool. It performs two main jobs. When you put the tip of your pool cue into one side, a surgical steel blade cuts away the mushroom edge of the tip and makes it flush with the ferrule. Put your cue into the other side, and the blade perfectly trims your cue tip into the curved shape you need.


http://www.seyberts.com/cue_accessories/tiptools/index.htm

Rod
11-30-2003, 03:00 PM
Hi Jim,

I use a crutch bumper to hold and spin the shaft and a drimmel with a sanding drum. It never hits the ferrule and leaves a fine finish. Spiderman come up with the idea some time ago and it works great. Here are some links but there are more and one with a photo. Tool (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/dosearch.php)


Rod

Chris Cass
11-30-2003, 04:44 PM
Hi Jim,

Although, I agree with all the posters here so far. I recommend you take your time and use reader glasses. I used the Willard machine all the time. The cutter doesn't fit the 14mm tips in without shoving it in there hard. There's also a screw on the backside to limit how far the tip does go in too. I know you know this already.

What I do after I get the tip into the plastic tip holder (usually, tap on the plastic holder with the tip in place on a flat surface with a small mallet.) Then, after placing the glue on and twist the shaft till I see the glue is oozing from the sides slightly. I'll take a paper towel after the tip glue grabs I'll turn the shaft while collecting the excess with the towel. This leaves hardly any glue on the ferrule to have to trim off.

The blades on the tip machine after time will dull especially when putting on a few of the hard layered tips. Then, I'll take and use the grind area of the tip machine to take down the sides of the new tip till I can easily fit it into the Willard cutter peice.

This is where you must take your time. Myself, I'll trim till I see it's getting close and then take the shaft out of it's holder attatchment and use the Dremel like Rod. Sometimes I won't have access to a Dremel so I'll make sure I put the readers on and take my time.

I've noticed that when installing these high tips that, if you trim them, they don't always come out straight. They'll have a slight edge ring of leather at the base of the tip. You can free hand use the cutter by holding the shaft and carefully spin it and press against the blade. I also noticed that if these blades get dull it's a bear to work with. They can also get a small chip out of the blade and miss the area on the tip too.

Finally, I say keep the blades sharp and take an hour. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Nicks tool is also a great invention. Jonny K. showed me one a couple yrs ago but beware as Nick will confirm. This tool is very sharp.

I hope I helped in some way. I'd buy a Dremel for sure. Put it in a vice and turn it clean using tape around the ferrule. It's fun and it makes you feel like Barry Szamboti a little. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~keep Ivory ferrules for the lathe man, definitely.

BLACKHEART
11-30-2003, 04:59 PM
Chris you did mean "LIKE JERRY EICK", didn't you. Here's a tip. Go to Wal-Mart or K-Mart & buy the school pencil sharpeners, where the blade is held in by a small screw(not with a rivet). Sometimes I find the ones with 2 blades, for 59 cents. Then with a small screw driver remove the screw & you've got sharp new blades, for practically nothin'...JER

Chris Cass
11-30-2003, 05:05 PM
Oh my goodness,

Your right but I didn't know how to spell your last name. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif Thanks for the tip on the blades.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif,

C.C.~~a JER fan too.

Fleece3
11-30-2003, 06:10 PM
Jim Buss had an excellent 4 part article on replacing tips in Inside Pool. The part that deals with your concern is in the OCT. 03 issue. I wanted to post it, however it is in PDF (adobe format) and since I only the the PDF reader I could not cut and paste. However, here is the link:

http://www.insidepool.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&r eq=getit&lid=21

I have used it about 10 times now. NICE!!!

It wouldn't hurt to get the pervious to articles as well.

Troy
11-30-2003, 06:39 PM
I may have posted this some time ago ---

When I first started doing tips, about 5-6 years ago, I bought a Willlard and lot of spare accessories. One thing I bought was a spare shaft holder and collet(s) from Willard and found a pillow block (1.25") that fit perfectly. I also had a Sewing Machine motor. Mounted on a 12"x12"x1" piece of wood with bumpers as feet, this became my first "spinner" -- sort of like a very mini lathe. I also made a steady rest to hold the other of the shaft. Yea, I burned up a few motors at about $10-$15 each. Works for shafts and house cues.

As far as "guaranteeing" that all is straight and centered each & every time --- I've learned it just can't be done. Try rotating the shaft 1/4 turn in the holder. Now is the time for patience and a very sharp blade.

Jer has a great idea on blades (pencil sharpener) 'cuz Willards wants about $5.00 for 10 blades. I've been known to sharpen old blades but it's much easier to simply replace it.
Oh, and definitely a very sharp blade for a layered tip.

Hope this helps.

Troy

Sid_Vicious
11-30-2003, 09:46 PM
"The problem I've run into on every install is that the trimmer in the Willard always seems to cut into the ferrule on one side or another and then I spend a lot of time cleaning up that mess. I've only done my own cues."

Jim...I had that trouble and Spiderman told me a trick to stop it. You'll of course use the screw to limit your travel, I screw mine in all the way(14mm tips) and then screw it in half a turn, it usually takes more for a cut but best safe than sorry. NOW, the deal is that there is slop in the collet assy that the shaft is in, and you will find that you can press down on the assy with pressure to assist/guide/finesse the trim as you get close. Believe me I nicked a ferulle on a cue of my own, slightly but still upsetting, but Spidey's hint plus added patience did the trick. The slop correcting trick was the thing. Let me know if this needs further explanation...sid

Btw, most of the tedious part is after you see the glue peeling off. sv

BLACKHEART
11-30-2003, 10:00 PM
Here's another tip. Take the screw all of the way out of the Willard machine,(it has a spring inside, don't loose it). Take it to the hardware store & buy a 4 inch screw of the same thread. Grind 4 flats on the sides of the screw head. The screw will stick out from the end of the machine & you can just turn the screw in or out, using the head of the screw, instead of a screw driver. By the way, as long as you have the new screw out of the machine, paint the end white, so that it's easier to see, through the slot. JUST TRYING TO HELP...JER

BLACKHEART
11-30-2003, 10:05 PM
Oh ya, I forgot. Since this is a longer screw you'll have to thread on 2 nuts. Thread them tight against each other, to form a stop for the spring. It's much easier than it sounds...JER

Brent
12-01-2003, 06:48 AM
I use the ultimate tip-tool. It takes me about an hour to scruff off all the excess tip but atleast I dont damage the ferrule.

Chris Cass
12-01-2003, 09:30 AM
Thanks Troy,

You got me thinking now. Well, to be totally honest. I really don't have what it takes to put a tip on. Maybe in time?

Regards,

C.C.~~so happy Troy's posting once again... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Troy
12-01-2003, 09:51 AM
Good for you Brent. You must be one of those super careful folks.
However, I generally like people using the Ultimate Tip Tool 'cuz it brings me work replacing ferrules.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Brent:</font><hr> I use the ultimate tip-tool. It takes me about an hour to scruff off all the excess tip but atleast I dont damage the ferrule. <hr /></blockquote>

Brent
12-01-2003, 10:37 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Ul never get me though.

JimS
12-01-2003, 04:11 PM
Lots of great ideas/suggestions and I'll be using darn near all of them. Going to do a search for the crutch tip thingee and figure out how to make one of them. Thanks, Jim

BillPorter
12-01-2003, 05:41 PM
For the past 20+ years I have been using a technique for replacing tips that works pretty well and protects the ferrule. After gluing on the tip, I take a utility knife or Exacto knife with a sharp blade and very carefully trim the tip. I do this by holding the shaft tip down on a wood or plastic surface and cutting downward as I rotate the shaft. After a few rotations, the tip is mostly trimmed and the ferrule is still untouched. Of course, the tip flares out from its base on the ferrule. At this point, I take two pieces of sandpaper, maybe about 220 grit, and place the coarse sides together. I offset the two pieces so that about a half inch of coarse side is exposed. I then curve the smooth side of the sandpaper around the shaft, and while slowly rotating the shaft, I sand up and down on the tip. When the sides of the tip are almost flush with the ferrule, I go to 400 and then 600 grit sandpaper. Believe it or not, you can get the sides of the tip flush with the ferrule without scratching the ferrule using this technique. I was shown this technique about 25 years ago by a well-known cue maker and have used it ever since. You have to be careful with the utility knife and in the sanding processed, but the whole job takes maybe 20 minutes and works pretty well. The sides of the tip are not as smooth as if the job were done on a lathe, but if you have no lathe, this technique will get the job done. Hope this helps.

Fred Agnir
12-02-2003, 07:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JimS:</font><hr> Lots of great ideas/suggestions and I'll be using darn near all of them. Going to do a search for the crutch tip thingee and figure out how to make one of them. Thanks, Jim <hr /></blockquote>If you can't find a picture of the crutch tool, PM me your e-mai, and I'll send you a picture of Spiderman's and a picture of my rip-off of that design.

Fred

Sid_Vicious
12-02-2003, 08:12 AM
Jim...You "will find" that pressing down on the collet and turning half turns on the screw will pick off high sides while using the Willard cutter. There's that much lost tolerance lost in manufacturing of that assy.

Also, I find it critical to also use a magnifier hood to see really close to my work. Besides that it just takes time and lots of patience, but I figure after you do a few successfully, you'll gain the confidence quick. Don't let the confidence run away though, and notice when the tool wants to "bite." You'll enjoy the feature of the crutch tool, it gives you speed in taking off the final little bit that the Willard has trouble with. Jm2ac sid

JimS
12-02-2003, 08:26 AM
The magnifier hood! I forgot about the magnifier light I have on the work bence in the garage. I'm moving it to the pool room today! That should help along with the pics from Fred and the tip on pressing down on the collett, and Jer's tips on extending the adjusting screw, and Troys tips on the motor etc.

Then there's the patience factor which I've never been real good at. I seem to always be pushing to get it done and tend to forget about excellence being in the details until I screw it up...AGAIN!

This tendancy also strongly effects my pool game. I get in a hurry, want to play fast and don't take the time to do what I need to do in order to do the job right. Sixty freaking years I've been on this planet and ain't learned sh!t /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

clarence
12-03-2003, 02:39 AM
for 12.5 to 13mm I use the cutrite for anything smaller Im told the Joe porper little shaver works great . Anyone here tried this tool ? How was it

JimS
12-03-2003, 06:37 AM
I have Porpers little shaver and big shaver. I liked the little shaver better than the big shaver but it was very hard to get the job done with layered hard tips. It worked very well when I was using LePro's but when I switched to Talisman the Shavers could barely do the job and it was hard work, hard on the hands and took forever.

I didn't see any way to sharpen them and there is no replaceable blade either.

SpiderMan
01-05-2004, 04:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Jim,

Although, I agree with all the posters here so far. I recommend you take your time and use reader glasses. I used the Willard machine all the time. The cutter doesn't fit the 14mm tips in without shoving it in there hard.
<hr /></blockquote>

Chris,

If you loosen the clamp that holds the blade to the cutter, then slide the blade forward so that it hangs out just a little beyond the end of the clamp, you will find that it now cuts a 14mm tip without forcing. This works because the blade is mounted at a slight angle, so extending it forward has the effect of slightly increasing the effective entry diameter. Think of it as forcing the tip into a funnel whose mouth is defined by the tip of the cutter; by extending the mouth you also make the funnel larger. It only takes about 1/16" of shift in the blade to take care of the larger tips.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>
This is where you must take your time. Myself, I'll trim till I see it's getting close and then take the shaft out of it's holder attatchment and use the Dremel like Rod.
<hr /></blockquote>

Rod likes to use the dremel tool, I tried it a few times and for me there is more chance of nicking the ferrule than when using a blade that "glides" across the ferrule. But, it must work fine for Rod because he has a machinist's background and I'm sure he'd never be satisfied with bad results. I guess I've just gotten more comfortable with the hand-held blade on the spinning tip.

SpiderMan

tateuts
01-05-2004, 06:36 PM
Hi Spiderman,

Good to see you posting again! I was wondering where you were.

Chris

SpiderMan
01-06-2004, 10:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Hi Spiderman,

Good to see you posting again! I was wondering where you were.

Chris <hr /></blockquote>

A lot of other demands on my time sort of forced me to take a few weeks break from internet activities near the the end of last year. Once I laid off for a week or two, I got hooked on my increased productivity and stayed "clean" for a couple of months. One of my new years' resolutions is to maintain a better balance /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SpiderMan