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ms_cue
12-05-2003, 08:06 AM
Anyone out there have any advice/opinions on how to deal with an opponent who is an excruciatingly slow player. Is there any nice or appropriate way to ask/tell/demand that they speed things up, especially when there's no shot clock?

Billy
12-05-2003, 08:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ms_cue:</font><hr> Anyone out there have any advice/opinions on how to deal with an opponent who is an excruciatingly slow player. Is there any nice or appropriate way to ask/tell/demand that they speed things up, especially when there's no shot clock? <hr /></blockquote>


if it's not intentional slow play,you either deal with it or don't play /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jmo

bluewolf
12-05-2003, 09:14 AM
Learn how to relax, be comfortable with all paces and playing styles so that they cannot get a mental advantage over you.

play 1-p. That helps develop patience.

Laura

ms_cue
12-05-2003, 09:36 AM
Years ago I saw a guy reading the paper while his opponent took his time shooting. At the time I thought it was rude, but after having played this guy the other night, I'm beginning to rethink my opinion.

Scott Van Dyke
12-05-2003, 10:31 AM
There's nothing worse than a slow player. Now this is me, but I would tell him to hurry the f*** up. I don't have all day. Rattle the dude.

99.5% of all my shots take less than 10 seconds to fully execute. It really doesn't take that long to see the run.

What really pisses me off is waiting 2 minutes to have the [censored] miss. Nice job dipshit. What was all the thinking about.

Rod
12-05-2003, 10:59 AM
Well if this is just casual play, then don't play them. If it is a tournament advise the TD or league tell or advise others in the league. I've seen em play real sl-ooooow. If enough people drop them a hint, like speed it up dude, or dudette, they usually will in time. As a TD I told them they had to speed up play or they couldn't play in my tournaments. If they made some kind of effort I would let them play but made sure their match was called first.

Rod

Troy
12-05-2003, 11:25 AM
I occassionally use the line "I bet 8-5 he shoots...(pause)... today". I usually get a funny puzzled look, but sometimes it works.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ms_cue:</font><hr> Anyone out there have any advice/opinions on how to deal with an opponent who is an excruciatingly slow player. Is there any nice or appropriate way to ask/tell/demand that they speed things up, especially when there's no shot clock? <hr /></blockquote>

Chris Cass
12-05-2003, 11:34 AM
Hi ms_cue,

If this is tournament I would recommend Rod's advice. If not then, it's like this. Some use this as a tool to through your rythm out. It's a move no doubt. Some just are naturally slow players but use it to their advantage too.

What I do is play them at their own game. I could have the 9ball dead in straight and 6" away from the cb or even hanging in the jaws and I'll excuse myself and take a washroom break. Then come back and take another min or two down on the ball then stand up and chalk again then stroke it about 30 times then make the ball. They get the hint real quick.

What's funny is when you make their play seem faster than yours. They seem to fall apart. I also notice a lot, they're from WI. hahahaha Seems Jerry Breisath turned all his students into turtle brains. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

It's all about focus and who can focus stay focused. Don't let anyone change your focus onto them and their slow play making you lose yours. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I played this guy awhile back at RedWing, MN. at the 9ball Nationals, of course he was from WI. LOL He was about 6'6" and took 5 mins per shot. Well, I was hopping mad. Shots that couldn't take 2 mins if you had two broken hands. I grab'd the TD and told him to clock this guy. He gave him a warning and the guy argued with him for 5 mins. Then, the TD who's a big guy (John Stitch) still smaller than my opponent told him, he had to play faster but take the time he needed to make his shots. Needless to say I lost the match on the hill but never the less I still lost. He had taken my focus away and redirected it to focus on him. Remember, you have to stay in the Visual sensory to win. Even though I redirected his focus on this 5'6" man it was not enough. I do hate playing this type of game but it's what you have been dealt.

A prime example was on the "Honeymooners" with Jackie Gleason playing Ed Norton. Ed was stroking the cue and was taking about what seemed an hr driving Ralph up the wall. That was so funny I die laughing everytime I think about it. LOL

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
12-05-2003, 11:38 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I always ask, "Do I have time to get a pizza?" hahahaha

Regards,

C.C.

Keith Talent
12-05-2003, 12:04 PM
Jeez, you guys are rough on those of us who might pause to think a little (maybe we don't really know what we're doing?) before we shoot.

Last night, for kicks, and because I was frustrated that I hadn't gotten out of work in time to make a quick stop at the pool hall, I took out my stick for some practice stroking on the dining room table. I was watching Earl-Efren Z-shot tape ... and I thought I'd see what it felt like to play at their respective tempos. So I'd get down in a stance right along with them on the screen and try to imitate their warmup strokes right through to the shot.

Man, if I had to shoot like Earl, I'd be lucky to hit the pocket half the time ... one or two quick pumps and bang. Never felt even close to ready to letting a shot go as I followed him along. ... It was better with Efren, but still a little quick for me.
Call me slow on the uptake. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Barbara
12-05-2003, 12:26 PM
This is where you ask the TD before the player's meeting if there will be a shot clock imposed on a slow match or how they would handle a slow player.

A few years ago a now WPBA Touring Pro who shall remain nameless came to a few events in my tour and was excruciatingly slow. One time she took 5 minuts to study the table for a push-out! This year, I bought a stop watch and announce at every player's meeting the right to enforce a shot clock on any matches that are going too slow. I've had to use it only twice this year.

On the other hand, I think I owe Ga Young Kim about 2 hours! LOL!!

Barbara

JimS
12-05-2003, 07:45 PM
You fast players throw me off MY rhythm. I like to play slowly and deliberately. If you don't like it then take the advise of some here and don't play pool with me.

I let you play as quickly as you want when I 'd just as soon you'd take some time so I could look the table over. You're playing fast just to mess me up! No Fair!!

I take my time because that's how I play my best. That's the way it is. Deal with it. If there an instant graemlin giveing the bird that's what I'd post here. It really burns my butt to have people tell me to speed it up (unless it's in a tournament and messing up the scheduling). The last time it happened I just packed up and went home.

griffith_d
12-05-2003, 08:05 PM
When someone shoots too slow or takes forever to rack,..I put down the cue and tell them,.."let me know when you're ready". They seem to speed up after that.

If it is too bad,..I always get another drink, light a cig, go to the rest room or go talk to someone else when it is my turn,..they get the message.

Griff

bluewolf
12-05-2003, 08:27 PM
I always thought that I played kind of slow until my last apa captain (when I used to play league) timed my shooting and said that most shots were executed within 40 seconds.

I tend to be looking at the table while the other person is shooting and deciding then what I want to do when (if) I get back to the table. So when I walk up to the table,I generally already know what I want to do,glance quickly at the layout and except in a few rare instances, just get down and I shoot. Some people may do that process when they come up to the table, so that would make them slower, I guess.

I have also seen some players come up to the table, and just cannot figure out what to do, and only after agonizing about it, they finally get down and shoot.

I think it depends on what level player you are talking about too. If a person is not that good at reading the table, and planning several shots ahead, because they have not learned that yet, that seems to result in slower play.

OTOH, we had this guy in our apa league that drug out the match so much, everybody hated to play him. He actually did this as a maneuver to frustrate the other players so that they would get frustrated, hopefully start shooting worse and then he could beat them. I saw him beat better players just because they got so agitated. This seemed to be just a lot of mind stuff to gain a mental edge, but many he played considered it 'mental sharking', due to the degree he carried this.

If you know that this is this person's attempt at a head game, imo, it is easier to not let it bother you.

Patience is a virtue and the less someone elses play bothers you, imo, the more you can keep your own focus and play your best.

Laura

SPetty
12-05-2003, 08:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> What I do is play them at their own game.<hr /></blockquote>Hi Chris,

I did that once. Felt sooooo good to do it. We were playing the local "girls" team in league, and they have one player that is awfully slow - agonizing forever over the simplest of shots/situations. (I think it's because everyone else on her team is so good and she's so afraid to screw up so badly...)

Anyway, after letting her get to me just a little because she was playing so slowly, I made a conscious decision to play her at her own game. When she gave the table back to me, I had a darn simple three ball runout. I walked around the table this way, walked around the table that way, got down on the shot, got back up and walked around the table this way, came back and got down on the shot, got up and walked around the table that way... See how hard it is just to read about it??!? It was just as hard to do it!!!

Anyway, must have taken me close to 10 minutes to run out the last three balls. I felt stupid doing it, because no one but me knew what I was doing, but it was fun to me! Like the movie line: "Sometimes I just think funny things!" (I may have the exact line wrong, but 10 points to the person who identifies the movie!)

I agree, though, you can't let it get to you. Play your own mental games in order to not let them get into your head...

JimS
12-05-2003, 08:39 PM
Chris says "It's a move no doubt". I beg your pardon!

It's a move because I don't have the experience that you have and am not able to see the table with a quick glance and see the pattern just as quickly. I have to study it to see how things will work or not work. That's a move!?

It's a move when I have to take extra time to aim becuase I'm inexperienced and don't know the angle to the pocket like you do. You walk up behind a shot and you see instantly the correct angle and you see instantly how to address the cb and the ob to get the job done. I have to study it! And then I still might not see it but I'll be dammed if you'll tell me I don't have the right to study my shot!!

It's a move because I want to play as good as I can EVERY SHOT EVERY GAME!!!!!!! No sir!! The problem is that you and the other highly experienced skilled players on this board and in the halls I've played in have forgotten what's it's like to be inexperienced and relatively unskilled. Every time I play, every shot I shoot I work my ass off to get it right and then you say I'm putting a move on you because it took me a minute or two to take my shot. Yeah..that's a "move" all right.

Of course it's not a move for your guys to squirm and bitch and moan and twiddle your thumbs and scratch your ass while I'm trying to figure things out. No....that's not a move. It's my fault because I'm MAKING you nervous.

You guys are a real piece of work. Didn't meanto single out Chris here. I'm just fed up with good players pushing me to play faster and taking me out of my game and saying it's my fault!

Troy
12-05-2003, 09:33 PM
OK Jim, I also your point of view. However, to be always slow on every shot I believe is a bad habit. One poster discusses taking 10 minutes for a relatively simple 3-ball run. That to me is absurd.
Having said that, I often take more than a couple minutes to carefully look over a One-Pocket situation..

Troy...~~~ Looking at both sides - Thinks there's a happy medium... )
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JimS:</font><hr> Chris says "It's a move no doubt". I beg your pardon!

It's a move because I don't have the experience that you have and am not able to see the table with a quick glance and see the pattern just as quickly. I have to study it to see how things will work or not work. That's a move!?

It's a move when I have to take extra time to aim becuase I'm inexperienced and don't know the angle to the pocket like you do. You walk up behind a shot and you see instantly the correct angle and you see instantly how to address the cb and the ob to get the job done. I have to study it! And then I still might not see it but I'll be dammed if you'll tell me I don't have the right to study my shot!!

It's a move because I want to play as good as I can EVERY SHOT EVERY GAME!!!!!!! No sir!! The problem is that you and the other highly experienced skilled players on this board and in the halls I've played in have forgotten what's it's like to be inexperienced and relatively unskilled. Every time I play, every shot I shoot I work my ass off to get it right and then you say I'm putting a move on you because it took me a minute or two to take my shot. Yeah..that's a "move" all right.

Of course it's not a move for your guys to squirm and bitch and moan and twiddle your thumbs and scratch your ass while I'm trying to figure things out. No....that's not a move. It's my fault because I'm MAKING you nervous.

You guys are a real piece of work. Didn't meanto single out Chris here. I'm just fed up with good players pushing me to play faster and taking me out of my game and saying it's my fault! <hr /></blockquote>

cheesemouse
12-05-2003, 09:44 PM
Give it up Jim.....slow play sucks and you know it...hehehe /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
12-05-2003, 11:03 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hi Jim,

You forget I've played with you. Your not slow by any means. Try playing with Kid Delicious. 26 strokes on a shot but he doesn't miss much either. Try adding a few minutes on Mark Wilson. I could almost take a job interview between his shots. LOL

Seriously Jim, we're talking slow. Talk about moves well, Ike Runnels. That guy is nothing but moves and the bad part is, they're blatant. What's really the kicker is when someone takes forever and then misses the dang ball. LOL

45 seconds is plenty of time. You are at about 40. Some shots require a bit more, when left with at the table. Checking out the pattern might take some time too. Every shot should take an average time or rhythm. These all are acceptable but purposely done to settle ones nerves or unglue your opponents is a move. These players play so slow, they can't get into a rhythm. IMHO

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

runout1961
12-06-2003, 01:31 AM
My friend is a decent shot but he is painly slow. I, myself am a fast shooter. He is slow about lining up the shot, then takes at leat 7-10 paractice strokes. So, what I did was tell him that the more he thinks about it the greater the chances of missing. The more stroke he takes the more you are thinking about it and doubting yourself. Take 3 strokes then execute. He took my advice and I now enjoy playing with the guy.
A1C John J Ehle
Firefighter, USAF

CarolNYC
12-06-2003, 02:51 AM
Ha HA HA hA hA-if this is in a bar league,I hum the jeopardy tune REAL loud!ha ha ha
But Barb, As for regional tournaments, I feel shot clocks should be enforced -I'd be willing to be "shot-clock"police ha ha ha-no,but honestly, regional events are usually qualifiers for pro events-if they can't shoot in 30 seconds, their gonna have a helluva time out there and not know what the heck to do,ya know?
Carol~wants a stop watch for Xmas /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Chris Cass
12-06-2003, 07:42 AM
Hi Keith,

When you watch the tapes count the average amount of strokes for each player. You'd be surprized. It's all in the pre-shot routine. Most have an average of 4 stroke patterns. When something pops in their mind while down on the ball or something distracts them they might not always stand up and regroup. Instead they'll double the amount of their stroke pattern.

I don't mind slow play and understand some players require more time exicuting. I want the players best game not mind game. Buddy is slow but it's clear, it's his rhythm. If all your thinking is done while standing there's nothing left but to get down and shoot. I'm not talking 2 strokes and bamm. More like a 4 or 5 stroke pattern.

I know a player when I see one. I also know delibrate slow play. I know when a player is honestly trying to find the aim point or is new or rusty. This is ok for me. Without a consistant stroke pattern incoporated into pre-shot routine one might never become as consistant as they would like to be. Some never do. Some have to ask themselves. Why am I so different then pros?

Regards,

C.C.

cheesemouse
12-06-2003, 09:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Keith,





I know a player when I see one. I also know delibrate slow play. I know when a player is honestly trying to find the aim point or is new or rusty. This is ok for me. Without a consistant stroke pattern incoporated into pre-shot routine one might never become as consistant as they would like to be. Some never do. Some have to ask themselves. Why am I so different then pros?

Regards,

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>


Chris is on the money. Not all of us but many of us have seen the player that has reached 'super stroke'. It is a beautiful thing to see, especially when it last for hours. One can only say to himself upon witnessing this purity "right now, this minute this player is playing better than anyone in the world". I have never seen this beautiful dance proformed by a slow player. The players that get there have separated the mind from the body and that body is creating the natural rythm of a ballerina who defies the law of gravity as she sores thru the air...Is that dancer thinking of the foot falls placed on the floor of the dance studio where he/she learn the dance?........Well, of course not. He/she/it is just enjoying the moment, reaping the rewards of the hard work....he/she/it is loose upon the world.......Oh yeaaaaaaaaaa

The cheese takes some poetic license.....hehehehe /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JimS
12-06-2003, 10:40 AM
To the quick player:

"It's my turn to shoot now. It's your turn to sit the f down and shut the f up. I'll call you when I'm done". /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
12-06-2003, 11:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr>
...."right now, this minute this player is playing better than anyone in the world". I have never seen this beautiful dance proformed by a slow player....<hr /></blockquote>

Strictly from my own personal experience I must agree. The times when I have played to the best of my ability I did not play slow at all.

Ralf Soquet is a deliberate player, but if you watch him in the semis of the 2000 14.1 US Open he is truly in the zone, and he is playing at a pretty good clip.

I once played a girl in the Hamiltucky APA league who took over 2 minutes when she came to the table and over 1 minute between shots. It was quite distressing. Thankfully she is no longer in the league.

I play a somewhat squirrelly fellow in the Cincy Straight Pool League one night. His problem was the excessive practice strokes. Out of sheer boredom I began counting them. His average was about 18, his high was 27. It would have been rather amusing if I did not have to work the next day.

Sid_Vicious
12-06-2003, 12:01 PM
I'm with you on this one! If somebody requires even as much as 45 seconds on average to get through a shot, then they are basically slow(IMHO), but I'd cut them slack if they were 45 sec on every shot cyz they're being consistent. I sat here at my desk just now and watched the second hand go through 45 seconds, "THAT'S AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF TIME!"

I will certainly opt to NOT play someone I know is a really slow player. There's a difference between being methodical and deliberate, resulting in consistent time intervals, even if it is beyond 30-40 seconds. But to make erradic time swings into MINUTES is just not good, even for the player themselves. Pool perfection has an additive called cadience and flow. If you ain't movin' some kinda timely to some degree, you ain't going to get that facet of this game. Does that mean shoot fast? No, just be reasonable, let your brain and body do what it knows...play this game without consciousness.

Thing is though(and I'd welcome a vote on this one) I really believe that so called slow players are few and far between. I can only name a few names locally who has that label, and many of the shooters I run into seem to accent the same thing about those players and not that many others. I feel in the long run that most everyone "grows into" being a playing player rather than a "studying player, in due time...sid

Wally_in_Cincy
12-06-2003, 12:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr>
Thing is though(and I'd welcome a vote on this one) I really believe that so called slow players are few and far between. <hr /></blockquote>

Yes. Thank goodness /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

1 out of 20 maybe.

cheesemouse
12-06-2003, 12:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JimS:</font><hr> To the quick player:

"It's my turn to shoot now. It's your turn to sit the f down and shut the f up. I'll call you when I'm done". /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif .........I think the first move I would put on you if I had to play you in a match, Jim, is to say " I hear you play REAL SLOW" and then sit back and watch the smoke come out of your ears while you push'm into the rails.......hehehehe /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RCRX
12-06-2003, 02:10 PM
Strategy...gentlemen. If I'm having a hard time with you...and your dead on your game...making shots every 15-20 seconds..I'll slow down just a little. A minute to a minute and a half maybe. Yes, its to throw off your rhythm and to antagonize a player. Especially, if the player is being a jerk. This also works with slower players, sometimes, but not as well. It makes you look like a better player and may intimidate an opponent. Do what works but never get too rigid in your game. Bruce Lee said you should be like water. It will not flow through a rock, but will wear it down to nothing. Work on changing Rhythms and using them to your advantage. You can still count on your mechanics to make and set up the shots. Your rhythm doesnt have to be a constant!

Keith Talent
12-06-2003, 02:50 PM
Chris,

Following the stroking patterns of Earl and Efren sure hammered home to me how far I need to go to be a smoother player, and a quicker one. Certainly, I'm trying ... no doubt it's painful to watch truly slow players. I move pretty well when I'm confident and have a layout I can handle.

As for gamesmanship ... I've never gone into slo-mo deliberately, but like the last poster says ... sometimes you've got to get somebody off his rhythm if you're getting beat. And, of course, there are legitimate ways of slowing the game down ... playing more safeties and such.

I picked up some good advice on such techniques in a well-known book on tennis strategy, Brad Gilbert's "Winning Ugly." Of course, you want to be subtle about it ... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pelican
12-06-2003, 04:01 PM
I look at it like it is my business how I shoot, fast or slow. I don't tell anyone else how to shoot. If they shoot slower or faster than me I figure that's their game. If it bothers me I shouldn't be shooting pool. My concern is with my game not theirs. Granted, it should not take 5 minutes to decide and make a shot but a shooter also should not expect his opponent to be in a speed shoot. Different strokes for different folks.

Popcorn
12-06-2003, 07:34 PM
How wiil you slowing down mess up their rhythm? They just sit and wait till it is their turn, you are the one whose rhythm is being changed. Would it not be better to just run out, Rather then worrying about head games with the other player. Very little of what the other player does bothers me at all. If he is not calling my mother names or something, what do I care. when it is my turn I play my game. All that other stuff is just silliness.

Popcorn
12-06-2003, 07:37 PM
I don't, what do I care how long he Takes to play. It only creates problems with spectators who can't stand to watch. As the player though, who cares.

Popcorn
12-06-2003, 07:48 PM
Quote

"What I do is play them at their own game. I could have the 9ball dead in straight and 6" away from the cb or even hanging in the jaws and I'll excuse myself and take a washroom break. Then come back and take another min or two down on the ball then stand up and chalk again then stroke it about 30 times then make the ball".

Are you serious or are you kidding. If you are at the table running out, why would you care how slow he plays, you are winning the game? What is the point of trying to get even with him doing all that silly stuff? Just win the games and let him do what he wants. Changing your game makes "No" sense. I guess because I grew up playing straight pool, I don't mind waiting. Sitting in the chair for half an hour can be tough but you have to deal with it. I don't know what all the rush is. If I am gambling with someone, I have no where I have to be. It will take as long as it takes.

JimS
12-07-2003, 07:10 AM
....and out of the jungle comes a voice or reason.


Thanks Popcorn. I needed that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Popcorn
12-07-2003, 10:55 AM
The point is, It should not be an issue. If you are playing in a tournament and it effects the scheduling or something, that is the problem of the tournament director if he wants to say something. As far as I am concerned, it is no problem at all, and why should it be? To be honest, players that play very fast and have unusual ticks and habits or jump around on every shot, would be more distracting then a player that just has a nice methodical pace when they play. You would be surprised, in a long match or if you play a guy for several days. If he has strange quirks, it can effect your play. Same if you practice with someone who has funny fundamentals, you can pick up their habits without realizing it. As far as it effecting your pace playing a slow player, playing at your perfect pace is just not a luxury you are guaranteed when you play. The slower player could make the same claim because someone plays to fast. That is just the way it goes.

Scott Lee
12-08-2003, 06:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> I also notice a lot, they're from WI. hahahaha Seems Jerry Breisath turned all his students into turtle brains. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

It's all about focus and who can focus stay focused. Don't let anyone change your focus onto them and their slow play making you lose yours. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Needless to say I lost the match on the hill but never the less I still lost. He had taken my focus away and redirected it to focus on him. Remember, you have to stay in the Visual sensory to win. Even though I redirected his focus on this 5'6" man it was not enough. I do hate playing this type of game but it's what you have been dealt.

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Come on Chris! Jerry is STILL regarded as one of the top instructors in the world, simply because he DOES recommend (as do I) not rushing your shots. The biggest mistake players of all abilities make is getting in too big of a hurry. Get in a hurry to shoot, and you're getting in a hurry to miss. I agree with the "slow play" part, but NOT about Jerry! BTW, how slow does Nevel play? NOT!

Now about your situation at Red Wing...who owns that problem? LOL You admitted that YOU let your focus leave you...it had nothing to do with your opponent! Only you have the responsility for what happens to YOU when you're at the table. You cannot blame that on your opponent, regardless of their style of play.

Scott ~ don't be mackin on my mentor! LOL

Chris Cass
12-08-2003, 09:09 AM
Hi Scott,

The reason Jerry is regarded so highly in his profession is his ability to tranfer his thoughts into words. The ability to teach someone something is a gift IMHO. I'm not ripping on Jerry but on the same token I can tell many times who's been taught by him or one of his students.

I never blame a loss on anyone but myself regardless of what they might have contributed to my thoughts at the time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I don't recommend firing at every ball or 2 stokes and boom. I say take your time and shoot when your ready. I just get irratated by those who are so indecisive and him and haw on every shot. If the game is so pain staking why don't they just quit?

I played in a scotch doubles blind draw for partners. The woman I had apologized on every shot she missed which was all but one. In the middle of the game she asked what balls we had? After losing the match she again apologized and said it's all about fun isn't it? I said, yes it was. I can't remember when I enjoyed myself so much and it only cost me $5.00 and .75 a rack. I might have been selfish but this isn't the first time I played tourneys that I knew better to play in.

One match towards the end took 2 hrs total. This was a race to 2 eightball. They won 2-0. 20 teams and went from 7pm till 2am. Well, Spike took 4th and we left at 2am. Average shots were 2mins.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif,

C.C.

Qtec
12-08-2003, 12:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
One match towards the end took 2 hrs total. This was a race to 2 eightball <hr /></blockquote>


OMD!!!!!


You guys have guns,dont you??

Hanging is too good for some players. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can take anything, except slow play. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Qtec /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
12-09-2003, 08:47 AM
Hi Qtec,

Funny, watching a tape of Buddy awhile back the commentator said to Mike Segal. "What do you think of Buddy and his slow play? The commentator had mentioned that some of the players are bothered by it. Mike said, "I've played Buddy many times and it didn't bother me." The commentator went on to say, the oxen move slow. After 30 yrs of pool there's no need to rush and that Buddy takes his leisurely stroll to the next shot.

When asking Mike again about Buddys style of play Mike says, "Buddy is a Methotical player." The commentator said, "some might say he's more sedate or rather Deliberate and Methotical."

My question is, "Is not Earl or Busty Deliberate and Methotical?" I call these super slow players, "Grinders." /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~don't want to kill'em. Just don't want them to die on the table is all. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
12-09-2003, 09:38 AM
Hi Popcorn,

Well, I might have exaggerated a weee bit on that. I run out when I can. However when I think someone is trying to bust my chops, I'll play the game with them. I too grew up playing straight pool also played one pocket for the last two yrs. I know what times are to be expected inbetween shots.

9ball is a quick game. 8ball somewhat slower. This I can deal with. They're players that shoot at different skill levels also. That's understandable so, I tend to play in events where the more experienced and knowledgable players play. I know when someone is moving and I deal with it accordonly. Calling the TD over to watch a critical shot even though I know there's no chance I'll foul the ball only to highten the situation. It's hard no doubt to see your slo play opponent shifting in there chair with their head popping up while your running out. Waving their cue back and forth makes me want to pop them. It's not my fault they're sitting. Why should I have to put up with their petty nervous system?

I play in a BCA league to qualify for Vegas. I'm ranked rather high but it's all about qualifing so it doesn't matter so much as long as you put the time in (10weeks). My son Spike is qualifing with me also.

We started out fresh and not being able to get on a team we had to just show up and play for the teams that were short a player. This is no problem though. Every week someone needed us. We don't have to pay the $5.00 to sub the team pays it and gets their money back at the end. We just pay the money for the games we play. Simple.

Now, a guy asked if we would finish the league out with their team. We paid the saction fee and our $5.00 ea. The next week noone showed up. They found me 3 players and dump this thing on me and made me captain. I didn't want this job but these 3 players gave me their commitment to show every week unless something happened of course.

The next week, two players were arguing. One through his cell and I stepped in and straightened everything out. The next week one didn't show calling me at 6:30pm when leagues start at 7:00pm. The next week the one guy didn't have the money and his friend couldn't make it. He said he lost his mind and left town. The stress of his private life got to him. Found out he didn't.

The next week one came to me telling me he's quiting and going to a team he always wanted to play with. Also, told his other friend to come with him. See, they're all friends these 3 guys. Anyway, now it's me, my son and Heide joined me and I pay $25.00 a week for the duration of the season.

I hate it so much and I can't be letting anything get too stressful in my physical condition. So, slo play is so ramppid with this league I find myself pocketing the 8ball as soon as I see it open. This shocks everyone. I just won't put up with any of their crap. I don't care about winning, or don't want to show them how to run a rack out with precision.

I almost got a kick out of it last week. I broke and made a ball and immediately made the 8ball. I went and sat down and the guy came over after he shot and missed and this had been like 3 mins. He said, it's your shot. I said, "why, the games over." He scratched his head and couldn't figure out what happened.

My next match, this guy breaks runs down to the last ball and misses. This took him atleast 7 minutes. He sat down and I have all my balls on the table and smoked the 8 ball. The whole team watching and waiting for me to miss. Oh well... Been doing this for 3 weeks straight. I just don't care. I would have quit and returned to subbing but I lose our league money invested so far. Soon it'll be over and I'll know better next time. I know you can pay saction fees for Vegas without having to qualify but it's all about Spike and Heide. They needed the experience of league play.

Maybe it's time for a break.

Chris

cheesemouse
12-09-2003, 10:22 AM
Chris,

Haaahhhhhaaaaha, Yes Chris, you need a break. You are fried right, burned out, put a fork in him he's done, he's lost it, blown a fuse, gone into orbit, popped his cork,........all symptoms of team a captainship being dropped on your head, it is tough being the provost marshal for a flight of flacks.....how did you EVER get trapped into this thankless situation???.....can't believe your lack of judgement....I will now give you the blood ball........hehehehehhhhhheeee.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Chris Cass
12-10-2003, 04:30 AM
Hi Ya Cheese,

The other guy that was captain dropped it in my lap. He was tierd of his 3 players having no money, no transportation and wanting drinks on him. Why didn't he just drop the team? I don't know why he dumped it into my lap. Now, I'm stuck with paying everything just so I can get back my doe.

I could have quit too and just sub on other teams but I had Christ to occupy and Heide was already qualified then again so was Christ too. (summer league) It's when I was approached by the league operator with one guy 2 guys that wanted to play fulltime and their friend who also wanted a home. So, I agreed. Well. they pulled the same crap on me. I all but through in the towel. I told the one guy he was welcome to go with the team he was begging to go on. He even talked his crackpot buddy to go with him. The last guy whom is a coworker of his wanted to stay and told me he wouldn't leave and stood by his word. Although he's really sick he shows up.

I got Heide to come over and we search for a sub every week, with great success. I'm still stuck with $26. week plus food for 3 hrs and was very depressed. I don't give a rats a$$ anymore. No offence about the rodent thing Cheese. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Well, lastnight was a major change for me. The first guy said to me. "Chris, take it easy on me, will ya?" I laughed and said sure. He broke and came up dry and the lay out was perfect. You could get out from either balls stripes or solids. I looked at Heide and smiled and she looked down. Well, I smoked the 8ball in the pocket and the guys jaw dropped. He said, "Did I do something wrong?" I said, "No, I thought you wanted me to take it easy on you?" LOL Walking over to Heide she says, "I hate when you do that and I don't think I want to play with you again so, don't ask me next yr." /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif Spike gets mad and said, Dad, stop being such a baby. LOL

It was the last round and the one guy who stayed with us said to me, "Do you think we can win this?" I told him, I don't think so? LOL Well, it turns out we won 4 rounds and I never broke 10 total points in 5 games. That's out of a possible 50 points.

I felt powerful. It's like I was going to lose no matter what. I was in control. The only way rto really beat me was to break and run. I would just shoot the 8ball anyway. There wasn't any pressure and I felt the power. Felt like Earl.lol

Well, when I found out they had won I was floored. Heide, Spike, the teammate and the sub had taken them down without my help. I think this changes things. If they can stick and play hard then I should too. This team is worthy and I need to be too. Next week I'll shoot my usual 45 and give them what I've been cheating them out of, MY Best.

Your great Cheese,

C.C.

Scott Lee
12-10-2003, 04:45 AM
Yikes Chris...What an ugly story! I feel for ya buddy! You sure are a standup guy to put up with all this nonsense, just to help out Heide and Spike! Ain't league pool fun!?!! NOT! LOL See you in a few weeks!

Scott

JimS
12-10-2003, 06:39 AM
I want to play pool real bad... but not bad enough to go back to league. I'd rather just hole-up and play by myself (notice I did NOT say play WITH my self! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) I feel for ya Bud.

Popcorn
12-10-2003, 08:29 AM
I think you may need Dr. Phil.

Rich R.
12-10-2003, 08:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JimS:</font><hr> I'd rather just hole-up and play by myself (notice I did NOT say play WITH my self! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) I feel for ya Bud. <hr /></blockquote>
If you have the time, why not try both? /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
12-10-2003, 09:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr>can't believe your lack of judgement....I will now give you the blood ball........hehehehehhhhhheeee.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Really? The blood ball? Hummmm Maybe, I can prosper with this pathetic attitude? Maybe, Popcorn will give me the orange crush? Maybe, Kato will give me the rainbow? Naa, busy losing weight for a date. LOL

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif,

C.C.~~Dr. Phil where are you????

cheesemouse
12-10-2003, 10:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr>can't believe your lack of judgement....I will now give you the blood ball........hehehehehhhhhheeee.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Really? The blood ball? Hummmm Maybe, I can prosper with this pathetic attitude? Maybe, Popcorn will give me the orange crush? Maybe, Kato will give me the rainbow? Naa, busy losing weight for a date. LOL

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif,

C.C.~~Dr. Phil where are you???? <hr /></blockquote>


Chris,

Doctor Cheese is in....if you can win with a bad attitude just imagine what a good attitude will do....hehehehe...the cheese loves corn... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

NBC-BOB
12-11-2003, 08:56 AM
I have played some players over the years that play real slow or have a particular style that I find annoying.
When this happens I don't say anything, but just finish up the game and shake there hand.After that I don't play them anymore. If they ask why? then I tell them the reason and move on.

Mike H
12-11-2003, 09:14 AM
Learn to slow your tempo too. I'm a slow player, and with good reason. It's my natural tempo. However, I exaggerate it a little bit when the match means something (i.e. money or tourney) because I believe that if my opponent is glued to their chair they can't possibly develop a rhythm when they get to the table. So I say, the longer they're in the chair,the better. Conversely, if I'm in the chair for a long time, I don't have much trouble getting in stroke, because I play only slightly faster than I sit. LOL So I would recommend becoming somewhat comfortable with this pace, because it's part of the game and it'll help you deal with players of this type.

RedHell
12-11-2003, 02:37 PM
Reading about slow play remind me about a player I was playing against last year in the VNEA league.

The guy was so slow, everybody hated him. Even his team mates.

One night we counted 43 warm up strokes, all that for the break shot. Imagine how long a game of 8 ball can get when the dude average 30 warm up strokes per shots. Add to this the walking around, bend down to line up and change your mind, start the routine again...

We played his team 3 times in the year, the first time we discovered how he was, the other two games we all agreed to apply the shot clock rules against him... he was never the same after that, the guy couldn't run 3 balls on the clock. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Rod
12-11-2003, 04:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
he was never the same after that, the guy couldn't run 3 balls on the clock.
<hr /></blockquote>

I'm supprised he ever made 3 balls taking 30 or more warm up strokes. If I took 30, I'd forget why I was even at the table. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Clearly, here is a person that should not be allowed in the league.

Chris Cass
12-12-2003, 04:06 AM
But Rod,

He was methodical and Deliberate. HAHAHAHAHAHA

C.C.~~ will take 40 warm-ups when I play Rod. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JimS
12-12-2003, 06:21 AM
I got yer methodical and deliberate right here smart-alec. /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Chris Cass
12-12-2003, 08:50 AM
HAHAHAHAHA,

Love ya Jim. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

C.C.~~yep, that'd be me. LOL

12-12-2003, 11:11 AM

hondo
12-12-2003, 01:42 PM
There used to be an old man in Clarksburg
named Smitty Righter. He would take 30 strokes
before every shot. Once he was playing
one of our local 1 hole sharks named
Guy Buffy. 7-7 for the cash, Smitty had
a long straight in for the game. He started
sroking &amp; Buffy started counting. Right at
30 Buffy slammed his cue to the floor
&amp; Smitty miscued leaving Buffy straight in.
I'm ashamed to say I laughed.

PQQLK9
09-18-2004, 09:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>Seriously Jim, we're talking slow. Talk about moves well, Ike Runnels. That guy is nothing but moves and the bad part is, they're blatant.<hr /></blockquote>
Hey Chris,a couple of nights ago a stranger showed up in town looking for some action so we played some One Pocket and he moved and banked like a Pro. I saw him play in Vegas back in May but soon found out that it was Ike Runnels passing through on his way back from the US Open.
I told him that I learned a lot from him but he learned nothing from me. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif