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04-17-2002, 07:34 PM
I have entered a nine-ball tounament at the local bar.

The first match was Sunday. The tournament manager is including a rule on any ball leaving contact with the table.

He is saying that nine-ball rules state that if any ball bounces- even slightly-then it is a foul. If the cue ball hops on the break-it's a foul. I understood the rules on bouncing to mean when a ball actually leaves the table. No jump or masse' shots etc. Can someone clear this up please? Fran Crimi...Scott Lee...or any of the very knowledgeables here.

Thanks

Bobby

Rod
04-17-2002, 07:50 PM
ballbreaker, if thats the case then everyone is going to foul. There is no such rule. In case your not aware of the fact, the c/b leaves the table on ANY shot with speed. It sure would be a dumb rule trying to classify what left the table. I mean there would have to be a specific height. Now who's going to judge? It's like bar room 8 ball only worse. Having to call a ball clean in the pocket, no rail. How many arguements have started over someone saying, you touched that rail!!! It is his own "special" rule, and as I stated above, it doesn't make any sense!!!

04-17-2002, 08:02 PM
Thanks Rod...I agree that his rule is nonsense. How can I make the point so he dumps the rule. I argued it on Sunday, but he did not change it. He himself fouled on it.

Thanks again

Bobby

Troy
04-17-2002, 08:55 PM
Try quoting the "Official BCA Rules" ---

------------------------------
3.28 BALLS JUMPED OFF TABLE
Balls coming to rest other than on the bed of the table after a stroke (on the cushion top, rail surface, floor, etc.) are considered jumped balls. Balls may bounce on the cushion tops and rails of the table in play without being jumped balls if they return to the bed of the table under
their own power and without touching anything not a part of the table. The table shall consist of the permanent part of the table proper. (Balls that strike or touch anything not a part of the table, such as the light fixture, chalk on the rails and cushion tops, etc., shall be considered jumped balls even though they might return to the bed of the table after contacting items which are not parts of the table proper). In all pocket billiard games, when a stroke results in the cue ball or any object ball being a jumped ball off the table, the stroke is a foul. All jumped object balls are spotted (except in 8 and 9-Ball) when all balls have stopped moving. See specific game rules for putting the cue ball in play after a jumped cue ball foul.
---------------------------

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: ballbreaker1:</font><hr> Thanks Rod...I agree that his rule is nonsense. How can I make the point so he dumps the rule. I argued it on Sunday, but he did not change it. He himself fouled on it.

Thanks again

Bobby <hr></blockquote>

Barbara
04-17-2002, 09:06 PM
Okay you, whatever your real name may be, (I like to address posts with the person's name and not by a psuedo name) here's the opinion of a 1-year old BCA Ref who's not too smart to hear interpretations from other Refs.

That rule is too stoopid to even comprehend! The CB will skip the table on the break shot depending on how the shooter angles the tip with its applied force, let alone any other shot the shooter wants to put english on it to make it dance! And what about jump shots?? They're absolutely legal shots!!

The BCA recognizes that balls leaving the playing surface completely, and without returning to said playing surface, of the table as a foul. Mind you, a ball may travel down the top of a rail, and without contact of any foreign substance not attached to that rail, may return to the table bed as a legal shot. If the ball were to return to the table because a cube of chalk, or a towel or whatnot may be in its way and caused the direction of the CB or OB to alter its way back onto the playing surface of the table, then that's a foul. Hitting the overhead light with the CB or OB and it returns to the table, is a foul. Someone personally spiking the CB or OB back onto the table is a foul. I wish I could say something funny like hdj or rackemup could put in here, but I'm just too tired from work right now.

Anyone else who can add anything here, please do. I'm brain-dead from yet another 14-hour day.

Barbara~~~but does get to leave work Friday around 1pm....

Rod
04-17-2002, 09:21 PM
Well everyone will have to shoot soft shots. Even at less than medium speed a jacked up cue, like over a ball or a draw shot near the rail will make the c/b leave the table.
It is a fact that the cue ball is not in contact with the cloth near as much as some people think. He already said the c/b can not leave the table, but it does on most shots.

Ask him a what height is it a foul. Should be an interesting answer! You can't define the rule. Sound is another option, but I can guarantee him that balls leave the table without him hearing the sound. Are we leaving this up to an opponent for judgement. Still again the rule can not be defined. I'd call fouls on at least 80 percent of all shots, simply because I know the cue ball will leave the table. Wouldn't that be fun for everyone.

Serously you can take a dime or nickel, and put in front of the c/b about 8"or so for a test. Shoot a med firm draw shot and that ball will never touch the coins. The only way it would is if the cue is level. We normally play with a slightly elevated cue. If that bothers you shoot with a little more elevation. You will make the ball and draw the c/b back over the coin, without noticing it left the table.
How fine is that rule going to be?

Ralph S.
04-17-2002, 09:55 PM
Have the guy purchase a rule book. It sounds like he does'nt know the rules too well. If he keeps adding his own special rules he will most likely lose the majority if not all the participants.
Ralph S.

04-17-2002, 10:15 PM
You can also suggest that if he doesn't want to actually buy a rule book (which he should, if he is going to hold tournaments and present himself as TD)- he can also go online at the BCA website and and get the official rules there. The BCA also has poster-size printouts of the basic rules available, and you might encourage him to contact them for information and assistance in setting up and running tournaments. In my experience, the more knowledgeable and capable the TD is, the more the tournament experience is enjoyed by the players, and his tournaments will only continue to be succesful and grow. If he is not willing to expend the effort to make the tournament succesful (by presenting a well-run format, and undertanding and enforcing the rules), he will not see a succesful event! Patti Ireland , BCA referee

04-18-2002, 12:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Barbara:</font><hr> That rule is too stoopid
Anyone else who can add anything here, please do. I'm brain-dead from yet another 14-hour day.

Barbara~~~but does get to leave work Friday around 1pm.... <hr></blockquote>

what i'd do is copy the full response from b about as many times as there are players there, hand 'em out and see what happens.

b hardly ever comes out with that strong an opinion. grab it.

dan

04-18-2002, 12:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Patti_I:</font><hr> The BCA also has poster-size printouts of the basic rules available, <hr></blockquote>

details please. first i've heard of poster size rules. very kewl. i want some.


dan...well, you know, i'm into rules.

SPetty
04-18-2002, 06:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: houstondan:</font><hr>details please. first i've heard of poster size rules. very kewl. i want some.

dan...well, you know, i'm into rules. <hr></blockquote>

Hi dan,

Try www.bca-pool.com (http://www.bca-pool.com) -&gt; Products -&gt; Gifts

Here's the URL for the frame:
http://www.bca-pool.com/products/gifts.shtml

'bout halfway down...

04-18-2002, 10:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SPetty:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: houstondan:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;details please. first i've heard of poster size rules. very kewl. i want some.

dan...well, you know, i'm into rules. &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hi dan,

Try http://www.bca-pool.com/products/gifts.shtml (http://www.bca-pool.com>www.bca-pool.com</a>)

'bout halfway down...


<hr></blockquote>


thanks a lot.

dan