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Tom_In_Cincy
12-11-2003, 01:25 PM
Wally brought up a good point in another thread, from a TD's perspective, reporting a match result asap.

But, from a different point of view. You are a tournament player, what do you find good or bad about a TD or the way a tournament is run?

1. Should players that show up late for the sign ups be let in? IMO and in my tournaments the answer is NO.

2. Does the format have to remain the same? always DE and a set race for weekly or monthly events?

3. Do you think the TD takes too much time making the brackets?

4. What about the payouts? more for the top finishers or more for the bottom (in the money. like 5th 6th, or 7th 8th) finishers?

5. What about unknown players? roadies?

6. How important is a calcutta?

7. How important is a break and run pot?

8. How important is the amount of the entry fee?

Rod
12-11-2003, 01:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Wally brought up a good point in another thread, from a TD's perspective, reporting a match result asap.

But, from a different point of view. You are a tournament player, what do you find good or bad about a TD or the way a tournament is run?

1. Should players that show up late for the sign ups be let in? IMO and in my tournaments the answer is NO.


NO, pool players are always late and have tons of excuses. Problem is they didn't get their lazy ass in gear.



2. Does the format have to remain the same? always DE and a set race for weekly or monthly events?

No it doesn't but if everyone shows up based on a format, don't change.



3. Do you think the TD takes too much time making the brackets?

I've seen that happen and many times it's because of a late arrival, though not always.



4. What about the payouts? more for the top finishers or more for the bottom (in the money. like 5th 6th, or 7th 8th) finishers?


I think it best to pay a quarter of a full field. If less than full the TD has the right to adjust.



5. What about unknown players? roadies?

Unknown or roadies play at the highest rating, if handicapped.

6. How important is a calcutta?

I think most people like a Calcutta, I do. However it is illegal in some states. If you have one allow enough time so the tourney doesn't start late.


7. How important is a break and run pot?

It's not important to me, but if it can be done without disrupting a match or delay of tourney I guess it's ok.


8. How important is the amount of the entry fee? <hr /></blockquote>

[i]It should be reasonable. If not you might price some people out of playing.The same goes for green fees.[i]

Singlemalt
12-11-2003, 02:12 PM
The late players are a pain! The weekly 9-ball tournament here I play in some I tend to stay away from for that reason. It has a stated 8:00 start time, and quite often it is 8:45 by the time the brackets are done and break contest is over.

RedHell
12-11-2003, 02:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Wally brought up a good point in another thread, from a TD's perspective, reporting a match result asap.

But, from a different point of view. You are a tournament player, what do you find good or bad about a TD or the way a tournament is run?

1. Should players that show up late for the sign ups be let in? IMO and in my tournaments the answer is NO.

<font color="blue"> Not really, but, if you need more people to make the tournement interesting, I would offer a spot on the losing side. IE, you lost your first match cause you were late... </font color>

2. Does the format have to remain the same? always DE and a set race for weekly or monthly events?

<font color="blue"> The tournement should be as advertised, if it must change the advertisement must first change... </font color>


3. Do you think the TD takes too much time making the brackets?

<font color="blue"> Making the brackets is a must, who are we to criticise how much time it takes the TD... </font color>

4. What about the payouts? more for the top finishers or more for the bottom (in the money. like 5th 6th, or 7th 8th) finishers?

<font color="blue"> That truely depends of the type or the objectives of the tourney. If it's a friendly one, pay more people, if it's to devellop competition pay only the top 3... </font color>

5. What about unknown players? roadies?

<font color="blue"> If it's open, then there's nothing you can do, if it's a ranked (handicapped) tournement and you have no way to ranked them it's a tough one. Maybe requesting a contact (owner or the pro) of their local pool room to vouch for them could work...</font color>

6. How important is a calcutta?

<font color="blue"> They never have one were I play so not that important to me... </font color>

7. How important is a break and run pot?

<font color="blue"> We don't have that either... </font color>

8. How important is the amount of the entry fee?

<font color="blue"> The entry fee is really important, it will dictate the field you will get. If you want to organise a serious competitive event, high entry fee will filter your field. For fun tourney, the lowest the best... </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
12-11-2003, 02:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Singlemalt:</font><hr> ...The weekly 9-ball tournament here I play in some I tend to stay away from for that reason. It has a stated 8:00 start time, and quite often it is 8:45 by the time the brackets are done and break contest is over. <hr /></blockquote>

45 minutes late? Heck that's considered "on time" for some of the tourneys around here /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I played in an 8:00 pm scotch doubles one time that didn't start till 10:30. I could not leave because my partner wanted to stay.

The Watchdog
12-11-2003, 07:10 PM
Here we go into hot water...With a good tournament director,there should be no gripes.

Latecomers...simple..always start on time, and promote the event so well that you are always full. Turn a few people away, and you create demand, and create earlycomers.

The Draw...too many clowns out there running tourneys use modified draw sheets. Simply use 16, 32, or 64 sheets. If you have 23 players...use a 32 sheet. Simple. 9 byes, for latecomers, until you are full, then shut it down. If you have 28 players...use a 32 sheet. ALWAYS byes at the beginning, rather than the end. If you have 9 players...use a 16 sheet.

Pay deep. Who cares if the best players are there, you want the 30 average players. Simple.

Use match sheets, and call matches first...have upcoming match sheets ready, informing players in advance(smoke, pee, drink). A 32 man tourney has approx 60 matches until the finals. Even two minutes wait between each match adds up to 120 wasted minutes...two hours.

Always have a "working" draw sheet, PLUS a big one on the wall or easel, that is easily seen and accessible. An educated player is a more satisfied player.

A good experienced director knows all this. Find one.

woody_968
12-11-2003, 07:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Wally brought up a good point in another thread, from a TD's perspective, reporting a match result asap.

But, from a different point of view. You are a tournament player, what do you find good or bad about a TD or the way a tournament is run?

1. Should players that show up late for the sign ups be let in? IMO and in my tournaments the answer is NO.

NO NO NO

2. Does the format have to remain the same? always DE and a set race for weekly or monthly events?

I had best results running the same format for weekly tournaments. If I wanted to hold a different type of tourney I would put it on a different night so I didnt disrupt an already successful tournament.

3. Do you think the TD takes too much time making the brackets?

no

4. What about the payouts? more for the top finishers or more for the bottom (in the money. like 5th 6th, or 7th 8th) finishers?

Payout should be based on a percentage of the field, therefore more players means pay more places.

5. What about unknown players? roadies?

Welcome them, if its handicaped then they play as the highest level.

6. How important is a calcutta?

Weekly it would burn out, but for a monthly type tournament they are very important. You can keep the entry fee down where some people that wouldnt play a high dollar tourney will still enter. But still end up with a big enough purse to draw the people that mearly come for the money.

7. How important is a break and run pot?
not
8. How important is the amount of the entry fee?
VERY <hr /></blockquote> <font color="brown"> </font color>

Ralph S.
12-12-2003, 12:27 AM
Interesting post Tom. I am pretty much with the group so far, except for, the questions about the calcutta and break/run pots. For those who have played in tourneys with a break/run pot, they realize the interest and excitement it can generate. For those who don't give a damn about break/run pots, you would most likely change your way of thinking if you had the opportunity to shoot for the $$$$$.

Our weekly tourney {8ball} has a break/run pot. It is almost always at five hundred dollars. Why would one not want an opportunity to shoot for a large cash prize for a minimal investment? I am just having trouble understanding why some don't want or like break/run pots.

As far as the calcutta topic goes, there is no better way to increase prize money as well as getting the non-pool playing people involved or interested in our sport.

So, to answer questions 6 and 7, I personally find calcuttas and break/run pots to be very important, although I will probably get a great deal of people who disagree with me, which is okay. Debate is good thing.

Eric.
12-12-2003, 09:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Wally brought up a good point in another thread, from a TD's perspective, reporting a match result asap.

But, from a different point of view. You are a tournament player, what do you find good or bad about a TD or the way a tournament is run?

1. Should players that show up late for the sign ups be let in? IMO and in my tournaments the answer is NO.
<font color="green">Give em 15 minutes grace, then start </font color>
2. Does the format have to remain the same? always DE and a set race for weekly or monthly events?
<font color="green"> IMO, it's better to have the same format on certain days i.e. DE on the Thurs tourney &amp; single E with a longer race on Tues, etc...That way you get a following for certain days </font color>
3. Do you think the TD takes too much time making the brackets?
<font color="green">you gotta do, what you gotta do. I don't see it as an all day affair, anyway </font color>

4. What about the payouts? more for the top finishers or more for the bottom (in the money. like 5th 6th, or 7th 8th) finishers?
<font color="green">Personally, I like seeing 1st and 2nd pay a little more, then pay as deep as you can into the rest of the field </font color>

5. What about unknown players? roadies?
<font color="green">assuming this is hadicapped, start em at the top and adjust for next week after someone watches them play </font color>

6. How important is a calcutta?
<font color="green"> ask the regulars? </font color>

7. How important is a break and run pot?
<font color="green"> see #6 </font color>

8. How important is the amount of the entry fee?
<font color="green">I think it should be consistant with all the other Poolhalls in the area. </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>


Eric &gt;jmho

stickman
12-12-2003, 11:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Wally brought up a good point in another thread, from a TD's perspective, reporting a match result asap.

But, from a different point of view. You are a tournament player, what do you find good or bad about a TD or the way a tournament is run?

1. Should players that show up late for the sign ups be let in? IMO and in my tournaments the answer is NO.

<font color="red">We are a little lenient since we causually get started late. If a player calls before hand and will be here within 10 or 15 min., we will wait, provided it is not a regular instance. Once the calutta begans, it is too late.</font color>

2. Does the format have to remain the same? always DE and a set race for weekly or monthly events?

3. Do you think the TD takes too much time making the brackets?

<font color="red">A laptop and a tournament program makes fast and simple work of this. </font color>

4. What about the payouts? more for the top finishers or more for the bottom (in the money. like 5th 6th, or 7th 8th) finishers?

<font color="red"> We only pay first and second place with third place getting free entry fee for the following week. I would like to see more places, but it would require more players in the tournament. We generally have 16 players at most. If we would have 32 or so, we could pay more places.</font color>

5. What about unknown players? roadies?

<font color="red"> That's a tuff one. It happens sometimes. I have seen skills adjusted during a tournament. Since we have small weekly tournaments, most of the players are well known.</font color>

6. How important is a calcutta?

<font color="red"> I like it. </font color>

7. How important is a break and run pot?

<font color="red"> We have a eight on the break pot. I like it better than a break and run pot. We alternate between 9ball and 8ball each week. This is done during the tournaments. Chances are a $1.00, and build until there is a winner. I don't recall high it is now, but it is pretty high. </font color>

8. How important is the amount of the entry fee? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red"> The small local weekly tournaments entry fees are only $10. Records for past tournaments are kept, and qualify players for a Tournament of Champions at the end of the season. The fee is $25 and it is money added. </font color>

The Rhino Chaser
12-12-2003, 01:24 PM
1. Should players that show up late for the sign ups be let in? IMO and in my tournaments the answer is NO.
<font color="blue"> </font color> Yes, If they have called ahead but set a deadline if not there by the deadline your out.

2. Does the format have to remain the same? always DE and a set race for weekly or monthly events?
<font color="blue"> </font color> No changing things up makes it more interesting.

3. Do you think the TD takes too much time making the brackets?
<font color="blue"> </font color> I don't know what takes so much time. I just wish tournaments would get started on time, everey tourney I have ever played starts at least an hour behind schedule.

4. What about the payouts? more for the top finishers or more for the bottom (in the money. like 5th 6th, or 7th 8th) finishers?
<font color="blue"> </font color> I don't care just give me my money.

5. What about unknown players? roadies?
<font color="blue"> </font color> If the tourney is an open then let anybody into play. If handicapped then make them start at the highest sl.

6. How important is a calcutta?
<font color="blue"> </font color> I don't know. I've seen tourney's that make it with out them and tourney's that can't exsit without one.

7. How important is a break and run pot?
<font color="blue"> </font color> Don't really care this is just a big crap shoot.

8. How important is the amount of the entry fee?
<font color="blue"> </font color> The prize fund and the competion is what's important.<hr /></blockquote>

The Rhino Chaser
12-12-2003, 01:25 PM
Post deleted by The Rhino Chaser

The Rhino Chaser
12-12-2003, 01:26 PM
Sorry about the double post not sure what happened.

SPetty
12-12-2003, 01:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote The Rhino Chaser:</font><hr> Sorry about the double post not sure what happened. <hr /></blockquote>Hi Rhino Chaser,

You can always go back and delete any post that you've written within a day or two, just as you can go back and edit it if you made a mistake.

Simply go to the post and click "Edit". From there, you can edit or delete your post.

eg8r
12-12-2003, 01:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
1. Should players that show up late for the sign ups be let in? IMO and in my tournaments the answer is NO. <font color="blue"> No. That is tough for me to swallow since I am not normally punctual. </font color>

2. Does the format have to remain the same? always DE and a set race for weekly or monthly events? <font color="blue"> I would think weekly events should be the same each week. However, I do like the idea of allowing the last two players to split the pot and go home if the tourney has lasted after 2 AM. </font color>

3. Do you think the TD takes too much time making the brackets? <font color="blue"> Not in my experience. </font color>

4. What about the payouts? more for the top finishers or more for the bottom (in the money. like 5th 6th, or 7th 8th) finishers? <font color="blue"> I like it fairly even down to around the top 1/4 of the field with the last getting his entry fee back, and first getting 33%. Nice even break down from the point on. </font color>

5. What about unknown players? roadies? <font color="blue"> If the tournament is handicapped, fair is fair, since you don't know the guy, set him at the entry level handicap. It sucks, but fair is fair. </font color>

6. How important is a calcutta? <font color="blue"> Not sure, I still do not understand them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif </font color>

7. How important is a break and run pot? <font color="blue"> I like it, adds another chance to win some money since I probably will not be the one winning the tournament. </font color>

8. How important is the amount of the entry fee? <font color="blue"> This is important to me. I do not like to donate money to pool players. If the entry fee is too high for a weekly tournament, I will not play. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Tom, I hope the guys that play in your tourneys appreciate whatever improvements you make from the advice you receive on this board.

eg8r

Troy
12-12-2003, 05:26 PM
Some things I strive to always accomplish ::

1. Start on time. If a player is going to be late, call me, then show when you tell me. I'll tell you if you can make it.
2. Our weekly handicapped tournament (USPPA) is always SE, race to 5. Entry fee stays constant.
3. Keep the draw simple. For our weekly handicap tourney (USPPA) I use a laptop. Otherwise I use numbered tags and preset any byes by pulling those tags (ie, if I have 32 players, #16 &amp; #32 are removed).
4. Have a predetermined idea of the payout for a given number of players and announce the payout early in the tournament.
5. Have a brief players meeting if necessary.

There are more but that's a start.

Troy

The Watchdog
12-13-2003, 06:01 PM
Maybe I am missing something to do with the "latecomers". I have run hundreds of EVENTS, and never have problems, for I limit the entries. It is either a 16 player, 32 player, or 64 player event. This is dictated by tables and time.

So, if an event is 32 players, and starts at 7PM, I draw all names at 7PM. If there were 25 players, I place 7 byes on the draw sheet first(never drawing them, for they may end up together), then I draw the names into the remaining slots.

Now, I start on time, and 7 latecomers could get in. They now draw their own spot out of 7 remaining spots. Obviously, as soon as first round is done, nobody can get in.

If I have 17 players, there are 15 byes, and I start on time, and people a little late can still get in, without holding up others.

Of note is the fact that the decision to be 16, 32, or 64 player maximum, based on time and tables available(dependent on length of races per match) is the key. The goal is to be full MOST of the time, which means latecomers have no spot, creating demand, and excitement, and trust me, they come earlier if they want to play.

The Watchdog
12-13-2003, 06:07 PM
Oh yes. Making the brackets. How could this possibly take more than two minutes. You have a 16 sheet, a 32 sheet, or a 64 sheet(maybe 128 if big). Stick in the byes and draw the names. TWO MINUTES.

Unless of course you are inexperienced, and using modified sheets to match the exact number of players, then panicking when one more walks in...holding up everybody...lol. Like most...with stupid byes in the second or third rounds...haha...I enter these once in a while, and just chortle with amusement...usually shortstops running these ones...little file with all assorted modified draw sheets...HAHA It is too funny...

Troy
12-13-2003, 09:19 PM
It can easitl take more than TWO MINUTES to write up the flow chart after the draw has been done. I like my charts to be readable... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Also, it's not always inexperience yielding 2nd or 3rd round byes, i.e, 9-10 or 17-18 players. Otherwise, I agree.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote The Watchdog:</font><hr> Oh yes. Making the brackets. How could this possibly take more than two minutes. You have a 16 sheet, a 32 sheet, or a 64 sheet(maybe 128 if big). Stick in the byes and draw the names. TWO MINUTES.

Unless of course you are inexperienced, and using modified sheets to match the exact number of players, then panicking when one more walks in...holding up everybody...lol. Like most...with stupid byes in the second or third rounds...haha...I enter these once in a while, and just chortle with amusement...usually shortstops running these ones...little file with all assorted modified draw sheets...HAHA It is too funny... <hr /></blockquote>