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Tom_In_Cincy
12-11-2003, 03:01 PM
I run tournaments at Hard Times Billiards in Sacramento CA.

I am interested in opinions about payouts.

I always pay atleast 25% of the field. (8 places for a 32 player field)

I keep the cash payouts for 1st place limited to a range of 25 to 33% of the total pot. 15 to 20% for 2nd place.

I also keep the last place (7th, 8th) to atlest twice to 4 times the entry fee.

How does this compare to what you are use to in your tournaments?

UWPoolGod
12-11-2003, 03:18 PM
I have played in several different.

One Paid:
1/4 of the field at 50%,25%, 15%,10% normally with first always getting half.

The other:
Pays 1/3 of the field at around 40%,30%,20%,10% or a few 5%ers if the field is large.

I might be coming down to Sacramento in March so I'll try to get over there to Hard Times . I read about it all the time in the On the Wire paper or The Break.

Tom_In_Cincy
12-11-2003, 03:27 PM
UWPoolGod,

75% of the field will not be getting any money back at all.

What do you think is the reason(s) so many players pay to play, knowing that there is little chance of placing?

And, please let me know when you are going to be in town. I would enjoy meeting you maybe play some.

The Watchdog
12-11-2003, 06:51 PM
I have lobbied for very deep payouts for years. In my opinion, for most milieus,the more people go home with something the better. Good for you TOM.
Further, in my opinion, too many room owners look at tourneys as opportunities to make money.(although most fail miserably) I feel that a tournament is the best way to introduce the competitive comraderie that pool is renowned for. A tourney instills in many newcomers a burning desire to improve their pool game, and is basically the best promotion that can be done.
I have won many, and win all the time, but I still push owners and directors to pay lower amounts to first place, so they can spread the wealth as far into the field as possible. It is my opinion, again, that by doing this, constantly cultivating new and avid players, is the best way to ensure that tournaments flourish, which will make the game flourish also, so our sons and daughters can enjoy the game in years to come...the best game on earth.

Barbara
12-11-2003, 07:14 PM
Tom,

Your payouts just about equal what I do. I pay 1/4th of the field and usually the last place is the entry fee payback. I hate a heavy first place payout, 33% is good for 1st. Other than that, it discourages the players that want to improve in their finishes. I want my players to feel that they can at least make their entry fee back, or make some of their expenses back.

And as a WPBA sanctioned tour, I'm obligated to pay 100% of entry fees collected, less up to $15 per entry fee paid to the room owner in the form of greens fees.

You can do the math and it always works out!

And CarolNYC hugs always make it better!!

But Carol's got the Flu, please, sso a big wish she feels better soon!!

Barbara~~~going for a flu shot next week...ouch and waaaaah!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Ralph S.
12-11-2003, 07:31 PM
I disagree to a certain extent Watchdog. If you pay deeper into the field, this in turn could create less motivation to advance more rapidly. By paying deeper into the field, weaker players know they only have to get just so far to bring in some pocket money, while the more dedicated players are getting less for their efforts to become the big gun in their respective areas.

The more dedicated players are also most likely the ones spending higher dollar amounts at their respective pool halls for practice time and equipment upkeep. Therefore winning less just to reward more is actually unjust to them in some aspects.

mike_in_iowa
12-11-2003, 09:21 PM
http://www.thebilliardstour.com/payouts.html

try this link, it is what I like to use when I have tourneys.

mike in iowa

Tom_In_Cincy
12-11-2003, 09:36 PM
Thanks Mike,

This is very close to what I payout (based on # of players)

Good to know, what I am doing is pretty close to other TD payouts.

I have checked other payout tournament percentages and this site falls right in line.

Iowashark
12-12-2003, 09:40 AM
Of the local tournaments around here that I play in, they mostly pay top 4 spots. These are also tournaments that on a good night will only get 20 players. I agree that paying out to more spots takes away the incentive for the good players to come participate knowing the money is spread out so much. I think an average tourney (less than 64 players) should only pay out 8 spots.

--side note--having a calcutta increases the incentive to play no matter how deep you pay out.

~~Dave

Troy
12-12-2003, 10:18 AM
Tom... Maybe I'm a bit top heavy compared to you, but here's my payout for 32 players @ $15.00 entry (100% in pot), single elimination weekly tournament ---

1st - $200, 2nd - $100, 3/4 - $ 50, 5/8 - $ 20, 5/8 - $20.....

I've learned this a fair balance between having lower level players wanting to improve and higher level players wanting to return.

By the way, I made up a quick reference chart for my payout so players will always know what it should be. I never have a arguement.

Troy

Tom_In_Cincy
12-12-2003, 10:36 AM
Dave,

How many places do the calcuttas pay in your area?

Here it is usually just 1st and 2nd, 60-40 or 70-30 splits.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-12-2003, 10:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Dave,

How many places do the calcuttas pay in your area?

Here it is usually just 1st and 2nd, 60-40 or 70-30 splits. <hr /></blockquote>

In Hamiltucky and Trenton it's always 70-30

Iowashark
12-12-2003, 11:14 AM
I believe the calcutta in most around here usually pays 1-4, 40, 30, 20, 10, but this would be more of a question for Mike in Iowa probably, hopefully he sees this.

~~Dave

mike_in_iowa
12-12-2003, 02:25 PM
if we have less then 32 players then top 2-3
up to 48 players then top 4 and over that 5-6.

Ralph S.
12-12-2003, 02:33 PM
Hello tom. As far as how many places to pay when a calcutta is involved, can most of the time be dictaed by the dollars in the callcutta. Around here our calcutta is plenty big enough to afford four and sometimes five places. An average calcutta in our weekly is about $500 bucks.

When the field is full and all the big guns are present, it will almost always be between 800-1ooo dollars.

The Watchdog
12-13-2003, 05:37 PM
Please let me know where and when these tourneys are, by way of post.

With 5 or more pros, I agree with larger percentages for first, and less depth in payouts.

With more "average" tourneys, the deeper the better.

mike_in_iowa
12-14-2003, 01:04 PM
something that has not been brought up that we do often is have sidepots. I sometimes try to get 6-8 guys together and we each throw in 10 or 20 bucks and whoever has the best finish gets the money. Everyone is allowed to get in the sidepot but only the gamblers will do it if they have a chance.

mike in iowa

Rod
12-14-2003, 01:42 PM
That's right Mike. For those that can not run a calcutta for legal reasons a side pot is the answer.

Rod

PoolFan
12-15-2003, 11:08 AM
I do side pools at all my tournaments. I like them because I don't have to waste an hour auctioning all the players off. While I collect the tournament entry, I offer a $10 side pool. Usually, I get a little more than half the field into the pool. With a field of 50 players, I usually have about $250-$280.

I typically pay 3-4 spots. With the pool of $250 I payout - 1st $110, 2nd $70, 3rd $40 4th $30.

Side pools are great. It's more money for the players who are interested in it. And as a director, it's doesn't take much more effort to accommodate.