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View Full Version : Why are they taking the Christ out of Christmas?



Wally_in_Cincy
12-18-2003, 11:45 AM
Merry Christmas everybody.

I say that because soon it will be illegal to say that.

Nobody is allowed to say "Christmas" anymore because it might "offend" some pants-wetting goofballs. Since when do you have a constitutional right not to be offended? Most of the Christmas cards I get from companies or insurance agents and the like say "Have a wonderful Holiday Season. Whassup with that? All the ads call it "holiday shopping" now. Why? It's CHRISTMAS shopping for Pete's sake.

Listen up folks, you heard it here first. The kids at school soon won't be allowed to say "Christmas tree". It will be a "Holiday tree". They already are not allowed to sing anything but secular Christmas songs.

THE "HOLIDAY" IS CHRISTMAS.

WHY IS EVERYBODY DENYING THIS? THE EMPEROR HAS NO FREAKING CLOTHES AND IT'S DRIVING ME NUTS. CAN YOU TELL?

If I lived in Saudi Arabia would I be offended if somebody wished me Happy Ramadan? If I lived in Israel would I be offended if somebody wished me Happy Hanukah? NO !!!!!

HAS THIS COUNTRY LOST ITS COLLECTIVE MIND?????

eg8r
12-18-2003, 12:02 PM
PC crap has gone way overboard.

I forget which college this happened, but, at the college, one of the buildings had US Flags draped on the roof, or hanging from the roof. The President of the University made them take the flags down because the foreign students would be offended. WHO CARES!!!!

eg8r

Cueless Joey
12-18-2003, 12:34 PM
I concur!!!
At the same time Christ is being taken out of CHRISTmas, they have an Islam Christmas stamps now! WTF?
If you can't say Merry Christmas, I would complain about people wearing vails/hats to symbolize their faith then b/c it offends me.
Why don't we just erase In God We Trust on our money then?
Where and when does it end?

Iowashark
12-18-2003, 01:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Why don't we just erase In God We Trust on our money then?
Where and when does it end?
<hr /></blockquote>

Since you mention it, it has come under attack. Until some time in the 1950's all paper currency had only the motto
E pluribus unum (latin for 'out of many, one', my father collects rare currency) and they are thinking of going back to this for secular purposes. It's ridiculous, our nation is slowly turning into George Orwell's version of 1984, just a couple decades late. I think he's the next Nostradamus.

~~Dave

TomBrooklyn
12-18-2003, 06:58 PM
One might also ask "When did Christ get into Christmas?" It turns out that the Catholic Church in 336 AD adopted December 25 to be the "official" birthday of Christ. Pagans had been celebrating the winter soltice on or about December 25 for centuries prior to that and considered it the birthday of Mithras, the sun god, or some such thing. The Catholic Church apparently made this move in an effort to get pagans who were celebrating anyway, to switch their attention to Jesus Christ.

The Bible makes no direct reference to the date Christ was born, but based on seasonal and other descriptions it appears most likely he was actually born sometime in the Autumn.

Just some historical notes.

wolfdancer
12-18-2003, 07:57 PM
Tom, if the info in "The DaVinci code" is correct; Dec 25 is also the birthday of Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus....and our day of church-going, Sunday, was "stolen from the pagans...their weekly tribute to the sun god"

Sid_Vicious
12-18-2003, 09:17 PM
Cuz we've let them. We now have a dominant force in all of the legistative branches of Washington, capable of making a national stand, and even our leader goes onto world wide TV saying "Islam is a great religion", but can not stand up and be stern on the pronouncement of our rights to praise Jesus Christ, defend our use of His name and Christianity as freely and proudly as those whom we try so hard to not insult? I've seen GW smile outta both sides of his face, depending on which group is watching him. That is a cheap imitation at best of trying to present yourself as a Christian...sid

Ralph S.
12-18-2003, 09:30 PM
Thats Big Brother for you Wally. I do agree with you. Any more it seems we are losing more and more of our rights to free speech and religion, among others. In many respects, this is just as demoralizing as the "Ten Commandments" issue recently in Alabama.

Chris Cass
12-19-2003, 03:41 AM
Hi Wally,

When I heard Heide tell me she wasn't allowed to put Christmas as the holiday on a school calender that go out to the parents, I was floored. She said that she was told by an higher up, that Christamas was politically incorrect. I thought that was BS.

Then again, look whats on TV and the songs allowed to play on the radio. Common words for a 3rd grader now are MF. This country is going in reverse. I thought this was are country and if anyone wanted to stay that's ok but we're not the ones who have to change. They're the ones who have to adapt. IMO It seems the more freedom we have the more rights we're losing.

Regards,

C.C.

pooltchr
12-19-2003, 07:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> I thought this was are country and if anyone wanted to stay that's ok but we're not the ones who have to change. They're the ones who have to adapt. IMO It seems the more freedom we have the more rights we're losing.

Regards,

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>
TAP!! TAP!! TAP!!

bluewolf
12-19-2003, 07:16 AM
This kind of stuff has been coming for a long time and it is just getting worse. When prayer was taken out of the school, seems like things have progressively gotten worse.

Then they hide behind 'separation of church and state', saying since the schools are federally and state funded, they cannot endorse a particular religion. Distorting the original purpose of that statement, which was to be sure that everyone would not be punished by the govt for their religious views. I just do not see how having 'Christmas' on a calender refers to the kind of punishment that statement was referring to.

And yes to Tom, Christ may well have been born in the fall.I have heard that before, but thanks for the history lesson. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Christmas is just an opporunity to celebrate his birth. It matters not to me nor I think to many others when he was actually born.

Many early Christians, if you read the book of acts were having a hard time of letting go of Hebrew law in their new found faith. The Hebrews,especially certain sects, had lots of rules which were challenged by Christ. Since the Hebrew people celebrated their sabbath on saturday, is it no wonder that Christianity, with the exception of seventh day adventists and a few others chose sunday.I would have to go back and read Acts again in detail, but there are references to Christians going from house to house,'breaking bread daily', so it would appear that many celebrated Christ's resurrection whenever they had a chance to gather irregardless of the day of the week.

The seventh day was a day of rest by tradition based on the 'creation account' so many Christians attend church (or worship in their own way not in church)on Sunday,while Jewish people and 7th day adventists worship on saturday and try to rest for the rest of the day with family.

BTW, if it were not for Tom's and wd comments, I would not have made such a long post. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Laura

Wally_in_Cincy
12-19-2003, 07:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Wally,

When I heard Heide tell me she wasn't allowed to put Christmas as the holiday on a school calender that go out to the parents, I was floored. She said that she was told by an higher up, that Christamas was politically incorrect. I thought that was BS.....<hr /></blockquote>

It's BS all right. Do they have a Christmas tree at the school? If you tell me they're calling it a "Holiday tree" I may have an apopleptic fit. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Let's say I'm driving down Main Street in Tel Aviv, Israel. If I see a Menorrah on public property I'm not going to pee my pants and break out in hives and call the ACLU.

We need more tolerance. We need tolerance for Christians.

Kato
12-19-2003, 10:24 AM
The PC stuff drives me absolutely crazy. You can't say anything anymore because someone is going to get offended and then you get sued. God forbid you have friends of different ethnic persuasions arguing back and forth hurling insults and someone comes along and becomes insulted because of a private conversation between two individuals. Heaven forbid we should be "One Nation Under God". When are they going to take the Jewish holidays out of public schools? That has to be coming soon, seperation of church and state. What ever happened to people being strong? When somebody called me a name when I was a kid I shrugged it off, no big deal. Of course I'm middle class and white so I've got all the advantages. Luckily the law makers pandering to every lobby in the country have managed to change that but hey, that's ok, no biggie.

Hopefully everything will keep going in the direction it's going and we'll all be sterilized and homogenized. Soon, the only person I'll be able to talk with is Chris Cass, it's tough to insult corn. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kato~~~wonders if it should be called "white milk", "regular milk", or "plain milk".

Tom_In_Cincy
12-19-2003, 11:46 AM
Eventually it will be called the 'evergreen' season. But, then the environmentalists will keep the trees from being CUT or transported over statelines.

When will the US take the stance of Fiscal responsibilty and reduce or eliminate all the wasted time, making sure someone's feelings aren't hurt?

It's all about money. As long as the retail industry and governments (local and national) see a benifit to being politically correct in speach (not wanting to alienate a customer) they will keep this up.

Did I miss the national election where you voted on eliminating Christmas from the offical holiday list?

Isn't Dec. 25th STILL Christmas? It's not listed anywhere that I can find as just a 'holiday' but only as "Christmas"

Thank GOD... I can still say my prayers in my home, and say grace at my meals.

God Bless everyone.

(noticed how I left any reference to GENDER out of all the statements above?) /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Karatemom
12-19-2003, 08:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
It's BS all right. Do they have a Christmas tree at the school? If you tell me they're calling it a "Holiday tree" I may have an apopleptic fit. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Let's say I'm driving down Main Street in Tel Aviv, Israel. If I see a Menorrah on public property I'm not going to pee my pants and break out in hives and call the ACLU.

We need more tolerance. We need tolerance for Christians.

<hr /></blockquote>Actually, they did have a Christmas tree every year. Now if you wanted to go by the book, had the superintendent of schools walked in and saw the tree, the tree would have come down. However, that never happened. I think that the big wigs of the school district turn their heads at the "little" stuff until enough of the parents have complained about it.

Now this year, I noticed they don't have a tree up (or at least I don't think they do as I haven't been up there in a while), but they do have a "mitten" tree. It's a Christmas tree with mittens and hats for the children whose parents can't afford them.

I think because it is a public school, and they accept all different religions, they can not favor one particular religion. If you celebrate one, then you must celebrate them all, and the kids get enough days off of school as it is. And besides, probably 95% of the school would be considered Christian. The other 5% would be made up of Muslim, Jewish, or other. If it was a private or parochial school, things, I believe, would be much different.

Heide ~ waiting to see Wally's epileptic fit /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Voodoo Daddy
12-19-2003, 09:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Common words for a 3rd grader now are MF.

What the "F" are you talkin about MF'er?

Regards,

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>

[b]Ya know thats all in fun CC but serious, the problem isnt a global one nor this Country's problem. Its the inability of parents to pull the reigns back on the children and explain the rules of life. Adults that have kids should own up to their parenting responsibilities and adults with no children shouldnt run off at the gums like a drunk sailor in front of children. Pool room or anywhere else, JMO. Now...Merry MF'ing X-Mas already!!

Voodoo~~~foulist mouth in 4 counties but can speak a sentence without a MF in it, &lt;almost&gt;!!

Qtec
12-20-2003, 01:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Why are they taking the Christ out of Christmas? <hr /></blockquote> ....because the world's gone mad Wally.

Just wondering,is Easter still Easter? Is St Patrick,s day still St Patrick,s day? Does tradition count for nothing?
If some people are offended about calling xmas xmas,how many are offended that they cant call xmas xmas?

Where will it end?
Q

Chris Cass
12-20-2003, 04:33 AM
Hi Voodoo,

I agree with you there's a lot of adults that don't act like adults and have no respect for women or children present. However you can't even spank your kid. I was brought up with spanking and I have respect. Now my kid I never spanked personally because my father never hit me. Then again my sons a second degree brown belt and I can't start now. hahahahahahahaha My son has never swarn in my presents or at me however he has called me a punk and I don't like it. I think that's equal on the grounding scale, don't you? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kato
12-20-2003, 06:51 AM
Tap, Tap, Tap.

Kato

Wally_in_Cincy
12-20-2003, 10:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Karatemom:</font><hr>
....I think that the big wigs of the school district turn their heads at the "little" stuff until enough of the parents have complained about it.

<font color="blue">Somebody actually complained about the Christmas stuff? I would take that complainer and give them a big old bitch slap /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>


Now this year, I noticed they don't have a tree up (or at least I don't think they do as I haven't been up there in a while), but they do have a "mitten" tree. It's a Christmas tree with mittens and hats for the children whose parents can't afford them.

<font color="blue">That is in the spirit of Christmas at least</font color>
Heide ~ waiting to see Wally's epileptic fit /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<font color="blue"> /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I spelled it wrong. It's "apoplectic"

from </font color>:

<font color="red"> "apoplexy"
n.
Sudden impairment of neurological function, especially that resulting from a cerebral hemorrhage; a stroke.

A fit of extreme anger; rage:
</font color>

<font color="blue">Yep. That's me /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Qtec
12-20-2003, 11:06 AM
Well you should know. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Merry Christmas Wally.

Q

JPB
12-20-2003, 11:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Tom, if the info in "The DaVinci code" is correct; Dec 25 is also the birthday of Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus....and our day of church-going, Sunday, was "stolen from the pagans...their weekly tribute to the sun god" <hr /></blockquote>


Yes, and non-fiction books that deal w/ subjects along the lines of the DaVinci Code have some fairly compelling arguments that Jesus was a member of an Egyptian religion that worshipped Isis and Osiris. Those religions were prevalent at the time. The also worshipped the feminine and the union of male/female in sexual rituals. They also had baptism. There is a lot out there that explains where the DaVinci Code stuff comes from. It is not particularly known by Americans, particularly American Christians, but is known more elsewhere. Poke around if you are curious and can deal w/ ideas that undermine the conventional knowledge. Can't say for sure what is true and what isn't, but the DaVinci Code was based on information that is out there and DVC doesn't explain it all. There is a history of underground religious groups in Europe. They had to be underground because the Church tortured and killed heretics. There are different threads running through history. It is likely that DaVinci was a member of one of these groups. His paintings do have heretical symbols and indicate non-Christian religious belief. Dec. 25 has been a date associated with both pagan worship and Egyptian religion. So it made sense to set the date of Christmas around these times as the Church tried to expand its power and influence. So a Dec 25 holiday that celebrates a divine being who is resurrected wasn't new to people exposed to Egyptian religion. Later on, pagan stuff like trees with lights and Yule logs and such were taken in.

Wally_in_Cincy
12-20-2003, 11:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Well you should know. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Merry Christmas Wally.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Guys like you make me that way /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Merry Christmas Q

Wally_in_Cincy
12-20-2003, 11:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> ....because the world's gone mad Wally.

Just wondering,is Easter still Easter? Is St Patrick,s day still St Patrick,s day? Does tradition count for nothing?
If some people are offended about calling xmas xmas,how many are offended that they cant call xmas xmas?

Where will it end?
Q <hr /></blockquote>

Well you're starting to come around. Me and eg8r will make a conservative out of you yet /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
12-20-2003, 12:12 PM
Good point Wally.

Another thing that bugs me is when people shamelessly commercialize Christmas

like this:

http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~presley/christmas/xmas-4.jpg


/ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

lovethegame272
12-20-2003, 02:22 PM
In Haiti all the little girls and boys look foreward to the coming of the holy spirit. ARE THEY THE ONLY ONES WHO UNDERSTAND THE TRUE MEANING OF CHRISTMAS! It is a real shame that Jesus's birthday doesnt have much to do with Jesus for some people.

bluewolf
12-21-2003, 09:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JPB:</font><hr>

There is a history of underground religious groups in Europe. They had to be underground because the Church tortured and killed heretics. There are different threads running through history. It is likely that DaVinci was a member of one of these groups. His paintings do have heretical symbols and indicate non-Christian religious belief. Dec. 25 has been a date associated with both pagan worship and Egyptian religion. So it made sense to set the date of Christmas around these times as the Church tried to expand its power and influence. So a Dec 25 holiday that celebrates a divine being who is resurrected wasn't new to people exposed to Egyptian religion. Later on, pagan stuff like trees with lights and Yule logs and such were taken in. <hr /></blockquote>

Firstly, I think the word 'pagan' is grossly misunderstood, lumping all kinds of beliefs into one word when there are so many beliefs and religions referred to as 'pagan'.

I have personally met many who called themselves 'pagan' but on further inspection their beliefs more resembled Native American beliefs and in fact some of the celtic beliefs, which are also called pagan, believe many of the same things that many Native Americans do. Some of their beliefs were not too far from lots of things Christians believe in and some had common elements to Buddism. These folks definately were not 'worshipping the devil', but common was a belief in some kind of God and or Goddess (but hey God is not a gender but spirit so who cares /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) and respect and good treatment of all living things and the earth. Not to say that some do not do 'satanlike' things, but imo, these are in a slim minority of those called 'pagan'.

Have tried explaining this to some other Christians, but I have met closed minds there.I came to the realization that talking about such things to conservatives either confuses them or in their fear and rigidity,I was labeled as toying with the 'devil'.So now when speaking to those folks individualy or on the 'Christian poolplayers forum', I stick with the Bible,as they believe it, out of respect for the way that they believe. I think it is best to respect the beliefs of all,not to try to change anyone, but to answer questions when asked.

The Christians who do not close up when hearing such things imo seem to be the more liberal ones or ones who have lived with other cultures at some point.

There was an earlier sect of Christianity (cannot remember who they were called) who were panintheists, not to be confused with pantheism, common in some religions,hinduism comes to mind. There were also a couple of earlier sects that believed in reincarnation. These sects were suppressed by the 'church'. I am not sure what happened to them.

Some of the things these earlier sects and lots of Native Americans too, believed in, like panintheism (God is in everything) are not even in contradiction to the Bible which implies omnipresence (God is everywhere), so I always thought that it was a shame they were suppressed. Dont know if they were killed, though.

To me, the Christian message is pretty basic.As long as I keep my faith in that simple message simple, it leaves room for other ideas, which can be stimulating. It is a shame that so many 'get their panties in a twist' over seemingly unimportant things.

In the end, whatever version of writings a person thinks are more true, it is still 'faith' in whatever one accepts. But of course, some just read everything, never really settling on any one belief, kind of like sailing in the sea and never hitting land.Searching always but never finding whatever they are searching for. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I have read quite a lot of stuff (just not the davinci code),visited different churches, been to seances, talked to wiccans, druids, mormons, buddists,etc, but in the end, I think it is best to settle into and believe in something,even if the person stays open and even modifies some aspects of that belief, if that makes any sense... /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

To me that is being a Christian,Hindu or whatever but always listening to and considering the ideas of other while retaining the basic tenants of one's faith that one has settled in.

Laura

JPB
12-21-2003, 12:39 PM
Bluewolf said, "These folks definately were not 'worshipping the devil', but common was a belief"

To be clear, I was not lumping pagans in with devil worshippers. They are much different.

bluewolf
12-22-2003, 09:16 AM
I have actually met people who thought pagans, all of them, were worshipping the devil. That is the reason I said that. I was not really inferring anything about you and am sorry if that was how it came across.

People are always talking about pagan things in relation to Christmas. There are some Christians like my mom who would say 'so what, it is a neat tradition'. Others get all bent out of shape over those things even to the point to be in denial.

Laura