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bigalerickson
04-18-2002, 01:24 PM
i hear this phrase and similar ones thrown around all of the time, in regards to handicapping. I'm aware this pertains to nine ball, but how does that affect the game?

Any other thoughts on handicapping would be appreciated, as I start getting games Im going to need it!

04-18-2002, 02:12 PM
Among good players (people that can frequently finish running a rack of 9-ball), the 8-ball doesn't mean very much. The reason being that if a good player can make the 8 they can make the 8, get shape on the 9, and make the 9 too.

It may come up periodically on combos and carams, but that's rare. If it is a wild-8 (instead of a call-8), it can come up on the break sometimes. But among good players, that is rare too. The racker isn't going to put the 8 in a spot in the rack where it is likely to go in off the break.

To low-to-middle B and below players, the 8 can make a difference. If they wind up with a moderately difficult shot to make the 8 and get shape on the 9, they can simply pocket the 8, and the game's over. But it still is a small spot.

bigalerickson
04-18-2002, 02:23 PM
so, for example, if you gave me the 6. I'd only have to pocket the six to win? What happens if you give me the six, and you run through to the 8. Do I just make the 8 to win?

Thanks.

04-18-2002, 02:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bigalerickson:</font><hr> but how does that affect the game?

AND...

Any other thoughts on handicapping would be appreciated, as I start getting games Im going to need it! <hr></blockquote>

First, if you're getting weight, you're probably the weaker player. "Getting the 8ball" gives you more chance to win, as does other weight variations. You'll have more outs, by means of caroms, combos, and hacks because you have another money ball(s).

Another way to even out the game is for a player to give up his breaks. On the lower levels, (yours truly and most people who post here) giving the breaks isn't that big of a deal. For Semi-Pro and Pro level players, who can often string multiple racks together, giving the breaks is tough.

If you are looking for action, but seem to have problems learning how to match up with people, I suggest:
(1) Play people AT your skill level (until you are comfortable playing BETTER ppl w/ weight, and giving out weight to the scrubs)
(2) And watch the better players not only when they PLAY, but when they negotiate the terms of the match.

Hope this Freds.

04-18-2002, 02:28 PM
No, you won't win. If I give you "the 6", and I pocket the 6 at some point, then you have to still get all the way out, pocketing the 9, to win.

If I give you the "6 and out", then you can pocket ANY ball from the 6 to the 9, and win. So if I pocket the 6 but miss the 7, you would only have to pocket the 7 to win.

04-18-2002, 02:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bigalerickson:</font><hr> MORE CONFUSION WITH:

so, for example, if you gave me the 6. I'd only have to pocket the six to win? What happens if you give me the six, and you run through to the 8. Do I just make the 8 to win?

Thanks. <hr></blockquote>

If you're getting the 6, then you have both the 6 and 9 as "money balls." If you opponent pots the 6 before you do, then you have only the 9 left.

Now, if you're getting the "6out," then your money balls consist of 6, 7, 8, and 9. As you can see, that's a lot of weight - so if you're getting this much, you're playing someone fairly good caompared to you.

Later!

Q-guy
04-18-2002, 04:47 PM
Post deleted by Q-guy

04-18-2002, 09:15 PM
Something close to giving the 8 but less weight still is getting the 'last two.'

If things go normally, with the 8 and 9 left, you win if you pocket the 8. But, if the opponent makes the 8 earlier, whatever ball is left with the 9, say, the 7, making THAT one wins the game for you. In that sense, it's a little better than just getting the 8, because you'll always have the extra money ball at the end of the game.

But it takes away being able to win earlier by making the extra money ball. You can't win by making something on the break, or early in the rack with a combo or carom, with this weight, which is why it isn't as much as giving a full extra money ball.

Jay M
04-18-2002, 11:22 PM
personal opinion here. (aren't they all...)

If you are getting weight and the player you are about to play is capable of stringing racks together:

Get the break, if nothing else, it will get you to the table once a rack.

Forget about wild balls... they really don't count for much in the overall scheme of things when you are playing a runout player unless you also have the break.

get games on the wire if you can. those DO count.

the 8 or last two really don't mean anything. the 7 or last 3 are the minimum to make a difference in a set with my preference being to get last three.

if you are losing badly even with weight (5-0, 5-1, 7-1, etc.), stop shooting. You are NOT going to make a miraculous comeback, you are hopelessly outclassed. Adjust the weight, quit or be prepared to pay.

Bottom line, no one will offer you weight that they aren't sure they can win with. No one will take a game that they don't think they can win. If you aren't sure of the weight, try it and adjust. If the opponent's game "suddenly" improves after the spot, get out.

Above all remember that it's a business for them, they do it every chance they get, and until you are used to it, you're going to lose no matter what your speed is.

Keep track of who you play, what the handicap was and what each set's outcome was. Next time you play that person, base the spot on the results of your last matchup with them.

Pick your games. Better to walk away from a bad game before it happens than after you have lost all your cash.

Good Luck

Jay M

04-19-2002, 12:09 AM
Q-guy is definately right about the idea that giving weight to a weaker player does not necessarily put pressure on a good player. If anything thing, good players are much better judge of a person's ability and know exactly how much weight they can give up and still win.

I love the part in Annigoni's book "playing off the rail" where it explains how he gave weight to a player (I think it was something like the 3,6, and 8) where he statistically explained exactly how he could give all this weight and still win. He had sized up his opponent to the extent that he new exactly how capable he was of reaching the "money" balls.

On a side note...I once gave a fairly decent 9-ball player a rather outrageous spot in one-pocket. He did not know the game, and could not believe I could win by giving such a huge spot. But to me, my giving weight was definately a "lamb kill" since I new his game (and one pocket).

By the way....I don't feel bad about taking this guys money, since he had hustled a good friend of mine.

Anyways.... Regards,

Doug

04-19-2002, 12:14 AM
Big Al...

It's said that Keith McCready (back when he was the cat's meow...70's?) would travel around the country with a monogrammed tee shirt that said: "The World gets the 8- ball". Supposedly this was no idle threat.

Anyway...I love that story. Be careful gambling. Lose too much too soon...and you will lose your love of the game.

Regards,

Doug