View Full Version : Can You Keep A Secret, And Shoud You?
12-22-2003, 11:47 AM
I was wondering if many legacy players go to the grave with a bag of secrets that they never tell other players, and whether this is something y'all consider personally admirable, or personally detestable. I find that if somebody notices something I do very well, and they ask for the reason why, that I unreel it without hesitation. Is that a gullible thing to do, or is it ok to save the secret to one's self???sid
12-23-2003, 04:01 AM
I'm kinda with you Sid. If someone asks a question I will explain why or how I did it. The only way I don't tell is if I cannot come up with a comprehendable way to explain it. Sometimes there are things I do that I cannot explain nor understand. And if I don't understand it..how in the world can anyone else. But if the truly great players do take their secrets of the game to the grave...I call dibs on Efrens brain. Maybe then someone could learn all there is to his game.
I grew up in the 50's, started playing pool in '56 and nobody would tell me ANYTHING...not how to hold the cue, not to stop hitting hard, not how to hit draw...nuttin!! I learned from that to NEVER hold back anything that anybody wants to know. It ain't right and it stops the flow of energy... If you want good to come into your life you got to put it out. That's the truth. It ain't hip, it ain't cool, it ain't street-smart, but it is the truth....and that's the end of that because truth is truth. If you want good to come in you got to put it out.
12-23-2003, 06:18 AM
Years ago pool players would not reveal their secrets to no one. Nowadays there are no secrets.Just go to the internet for a lot of free tips or buy one of many books or videos on the markey and vitually everything has been revealed.Keep some secrets for yourself when playing those in your own pool hall might be an option some would consider. I myself will teach almost anyone something new when asked. RJ
12-23-2003, 06:47 AM
I think that some things are not secrets but discoveries. Sometimes a player discovers something great but how they do it would not work for someone else. For example-some discover how to get into the zone,seemingly at will. Even if they know exactly how they do it, it would not work for someone else. I think lots of things are that way and how do you teach 'feel'?
Sid, there are no secrets.
12-23-2003, 10:05 AM
"I think that some things are not secrets but discoveries."
Bluewolf...That's a good analogy of where I'm coming from. Here's a case in point, let's say you have gotten the ability to jump over an entire blocking ball sitting in the general area of a diamond to the right of the head spot, hopping to an OB on the foot spot, hit your foot-spotted OB and at least catching the horn on the left corner pocket and/or making the ball 75% of the time. Or let's say your OB is pinned to the short rail a diamond off from the left corner pocket, and you can jump the same full ball at the other end of the table that you jumped before on the other shot description, using intended side english, and actually find yourself making the spin into the rail to make the ball in the corner. There is a discovered "feel" for those shots, a feel that can be explained for the most part, but as you stated, maybe not entirely due to the fact it's "my feel." But if you could discover something hardly anyone else within your local circle could seemingly do, wouldn't it be a great feeling of confidence to keep just enough to the discovery to yourself so your power stayed beyond everyone else'?
You have been to pool school haven't you? Well let's say that you are in an intermediate class level but you are finding that you are advanced in some areas, so you ask for instruction about a truly advanced technique after class (during that free time you get), a technique that the instructor himself may have recently gleaned from someone. I might be speaking outta my a$$ here, but I'll guess that you won't get that instruction without an added price, say the cost of an advanced class. Heck there might be a chance you will never get that information(imo) if this is something the instructor feels is a genuine gem for his personal game. You may say, "Well he deserves extra cash for extra special goodies" and you wouldn't be entirely wrong, BUT how do you know that you are getting his entire wealth of ideas, and that your not being spoon fed? I don't think you can, unless you really know your guy is totally full of integrity, beyond his personal aspirations. Those people are rare...sid
Discovery is a good word. There is any given number of shots that are discovered sometimes just from making a mistake. A person with a mind for pool, if you will, doesn't treat this as a mistake but as an opportunity to learn something new. That's what the game is about in general from the simple common mistakes branching out to something that doesn't seem possible. While the majority of our time should be spent with what wins games, it's also fun to fool around sometimes. LOL
The catch 22 is you need to have a good repeating stroke before some of these things are even possible. Once acquired a multitude of shots are not only possible but probable. The next thing is you need to understand what makes it work. If you have a good understanding of physics (on the pool table) it won't let you down. There are many players with pretty good strokes or even very good strokes but many don't know why stuff happens. The ones taking a secret to the grave is not likely a secret at all to other great players. Possibly they may not have experienced or seen a certain shot but that's remote. They certainly had the talent and understanding to make it work.
12-23-2003, 11:21 AM
"A person with a mind for pool, if you will, doesn't treat this as a mistake but as an opportunity to learn something new"
This is big enough to deserve a thread of it's own,,,yes seeing the shot not work like you figured it would does not necessarily mean that you snarl at it and miss out on the good stuff you could be getting, it depends on your attitude. Attitude is important, especially in pool. Everyone should disect their loses to see what the can say the've learned for them, a dimension I doubt many pool players seldom if ever consider....sid
While some people get bored with Trick Shot Magic, there are off-shoots of some shots that are used in normal play. They may not come up all that often but handy to have in the bag of tricks.
Speaking of those shots, I discovered some of them in the 60's. I just saw a derivative of one such shot the other day on the broadcast. I like mine better but it's a one sided opinion. LOL The famous draw shot Massey does I discovered back then also, However the credit for this shot goes to Jimmy Moore and rightly so. Jimmy added the interference ball that really isn't in the way! We didn't have trick shots on TV or books showing them so who knows who shot some of these shots first. Chances are they were shot long before many of us but we just added something to the shot to make it more impressive. Some are still not shown but it's probably a matter of time.
12-23-2003, 12:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> You have been to pool school haven't you? Well let's say that you are in an intermediate class level but you are finding that you are advanced in some areas, so you ask for instruction about a truly advanced technique after class ...sid <hr /></blockquote>
Sid, from my experience with instructors, I have to TOTALLY disagree with you. From Scott Lee, to Mika Immonen, to Tony Robles, to Charlie Williams, and to Fast Larry, they were willing to answer any questions that I or other students might have. Scott guarantees you advice for life once you take one of his lessons. Fast Larry has given Bluewolf tons of advice. In my 2 day Predator class,... And this was an intermediate class at that.
WW <hr /></blockquote>
One way that fast Larry helped me was by continually telling me to get out of the box, stop thinking, play the natural way. This did help me to relax with my pool and not worry about where I was on any ranking ladder, to just enjoy the love of the game.Once I could relax, I started to play more by feel and was getting better without thinking about it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Randy g in pool school had students of various levels including two apa sl7s. Some of those were interested in learning some more advanced things that were not in the curriculum. He spent extra time helping them and once his curriculum was covered, he stayed two hours over teaching some advanced stuff to anyone who wanted to stay, since one or two people had asked. I stayed and watched two, even though I was not at that level, just to see what these things were.
And of course, scott and randy have also answered questions when I asked even when I was not in school or a lesson with them. I have gotten to the point where I dont have as many questions though. I have plenty to get better at without worrying about jumping balls. When the time comes, I will, but in the meantime I do also learn from watching good players, like the pros on TV and accustats.Rome was not built in a day and as long as I am improving, I am pretty happy.
So I was not talking about that. I think that once a person has that fine stroke and good sound fundamentals, most things come in time with more experience and watching and playing better players. Then there are those special things that a person discovers. Sometimes it comes from a mistake or an injury may make you do things a different way. And sometimes these little discoveries are only for you because it is the result of experience, sound fundamentals, open mindedness and feel. Sometimes it is something that would only work for that person. It is not a secret, it is a discovery.
12-23-2003, 12:12 PM
"Sid, when are you going to step outside the box and take some lessons, or if you have, I am sorry that you did not get what you wanted."
I have been through a 3-day class, and several hourly sessions as well in my playing career, the hourly lessons far extended my improvement than the school did. I actually had to throw out some of school's mantras and the sort, I struggled for maybe 4 months until I did that, after I absorbed the pros playing the game and used what they did instead. I am simply not a big proponent of an organized school setting, mostly because you get much more from 1-on-1 time. I will take Scott's lessons one day though, without doubt.
I'm too biased away from ever getting back into the "wholesale instructional line" again after that one experience many years ago, and NO I won't produce the school's name here on the CB outta respect. Many others coming out of it are really high on it, it just did not fit my way of learning. I respect your concern and suggestion WW, I just do not respect some things and some people who have bitten me in the past. Bad attitude or best advice for me, both maybe, maybe not...sid~~~could be wrong about insctrutors holding back for future gains, at least for the most part that is
12-23-2003, 12:22 PM
"Rome was not built in a day and as long as I am improving, I am pretty happy."
Me too, I said that in agreement with a friend who stated the same thing. "I am happy with my game today" yet I keep learning as I go. I think being happy with my game has been the best transition I could have entered into. Playing pool is truly play-play, and that's all I really need in the long term vision of things.
I simply used the jump shots for an example, not pushing buttons on anybody. Reality is that nobody has to even learn that shot to win, but it is fun and to me, effective.
12-23-2003, 12:41 PM
Sharing knowledge is the only reward in pool....
I feel you can win all the majors, be the best player in the world, win all the bets you want, nothing will ever beat the feeling of helping someone make a shot he never made before....
I don't know that much about pool, but I'm always there to help someone learn something new... In the same veine I'm always willing to listen to someone and learn something new !
12-23-2003, 02:05 PM
Although helping someone make a shot he never made might be a nice feeling I dont think it would come close to the feeling of winning a major or being the best player in the world.
Well at least your post made me laugh.
12-23-2003, 02:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> I was wondering if many legacy players go to the grave with a bag of secrets that they never tell other players, <hr /></blockquote>
I not tellin'. Unless, of course, you want to pay me.
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