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View Full Version : Custom cue, am I insane?



glupidio
12-31-2003, 10:28 AM
On Sunday I went to pick up a brand new custom cue from a well known cue maker, and here's what happened:

My first impression is that it looks great, even better than I had imagined. Took a few shots, fantastic hit and sounds great. Very solid, nice looking cue. While I'm checking it out, maker points out that the leather wrap might cause a little wobble at the seam when you roll it on the table. He asserts that this is normal for leather wrapped cues. So I roll it on the table and sure enough, there's a substantial wobble. I've never heard of this but then again, this is my first leather wrapped cue. Has anybody ever heard of this happening?

So I remove the shaft and start looking a little more closely while I'm rolling it on the table, and observe that the wrap, and the wood on both sides of the wrap are rolling smooth as glass, no wobble, and no gaps between the cue and the table anywhere, anytime!

Hmm, so I roll the shaft by itself on the table, and there's the wobble! I check the other two shafts and they also have a bit of a wobble but not so bad, probably even acceptable. When I point this out, dude looks it over, acknowledges the defect, and then tells me "Well all I can say about that is that it's normal for wood to go in and out of warp". Have any of you ever heard of this happening?

I've had a couple production cues that have remained perfectly straight for more than a decade. No wobble. Not today, not an hour ago or a week ago, never. Am I setting my expectations too high for a high dollar custom cue?

woody_968
12-31-2003, 10:35 AM
First off I always roll the shaft and butt seperate first, as sometimes the joint can cause a wobble. Im not sure about the shaft going in and out of warp line though. If you had owned the cue for a while and then found the wobble I would say you dont have much to go on. But I can say I wouldnt be very happy if when I was picking it up there was already a wobble to it. Not to mention the fact that he tried to hide it by saying it was the wrap causing the wobble!

Paul_Mon
12-31-2003, 10:43 AM
Hope you can get the proper resolution from this cumaker because you should not have any significant wobble in these shafts. At most you may observe a tiny bit of daylight when you roll the shafts. Nothing more than a .005", about the thickness of 2 sheets of paper.

Did you make complete payment and accept the cue/shafts as is? If so I personally think you made a mistake. I've own one cues that is over 25 years old and the shaft is straight, within the limits described above. Other shafts I own, ranging fron 3 years to 10 years old are straight and never warp and then straighten. Good luck with this cuemaker.

Happy New Year

Paul

tateuts
12-31-2003, 10:47 AM
I think the problem lies in the type of Polyurethane the cuemaker used.

It caused his mind to warp.

Chris

Troy
12-31-2003, 10:50 AM
Since you posted posing the question, I think you already have formulated your own answer and now you're looking for confirmation. My opinion doesn't matter -- you are NOT happy with the product and therefore should refuse delivery.

Troy...~~~ Would tell the cuemaker just that...
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

stickman
12-31-2003, 10:53 AM
I wouldn't expect him to be a well known cuemaker for long, if he couldn't make me a straight shaft. I would insist in him making good on the defect. JMHO

CarterCues
12-31-2003, 10:54 AM
Being a maker myself I agree with other post you will have a slight wobble in the shafts but no more than .010". Sounds like you need to ask for another shaft to replace the bad ones. I run into a problem when I am making shafts for others cues (Mostly production) when they are made the joint will not be faced off or the pin may be out slightly and when the shafts are matched to the butts they are turned more on one side then the other.

Cueless Joey
12-31-2003, 11:05 AM
Leather wrapped handle would have a slight wobble b/c leather's thickness is not very consistent. In fact, the maker will have to sand them down a bit to make them truely even. But, his handle is not totally true, then you will have a wobble.
Shafts move all the time.

Jay
12-31-2003, 11:30 AM
I think that you definately need to go back to the cuemaker and ask for a new set of shafts because they are by no means supposed to wobble at all at least not enough to make it a concern and obviously you are concerned. I dont know much about making cues but from what I have gathered from other cuemakers is that if they turn down the shafts too quickly and not allow enough time in between the shafts will have a greater chance of warping. Any cuemakers can correct or add to this but I think that is what happened.

hadenball
12-31-2003, 02:41 PM
I've never heard of shafts going in and out of warp, anyone ever seen a warped shaft go straight? Me either.
Twelve years ago I had a prather # 1 shaft that got misplaced and put in my metal shed here in Florida, 2 years ago I found it and it is still straight as an arrow.
Ask the guy what grade shaft he used, if he won't tell you then you know it's a cheaper shaft.I know wood moves all the time and that is expected but in and out of warp, I don't buy it. How high dollar was it if you don't mind saying?

Popcorn
12-31-2003, 03:50 PM
I am going to say what the others are thinking, ask for your money back. The cue should be right from the start. Since he is from what I gather not a well known cue maker, The resale value of the cue will go way down with the defects. First of all, a cue maker will inspect the cue before it is delivered. In most cases the cue maker is more critical then the customer and will not deliver a messed up cue with or without an excuse. This guy is already giving you a song and dance. It takes a little nerve to ask for your money back, but not as much nerve he had delivering you such a cue. If he has any self respect, he will be glad to get the cue back before it hurts his reputation. Just my opinion.

Alex_Delodge
12-31-2003, 04:19 PM
"Well all I can say about that is that it's normal for wood to go in and out of warp"

TRANSLATION: I'm f*ing you and here's why you should like it.

Barbara
12-31-2003, 05:03 PM
Wood doesn't "unwarp" itself. It's been discussed on this board before that someone did get a shaft straightened out, but it warped again after a while.

Get yourself two new shafts made from the cuemaker. He should've never sold you those two in the first place.

Barbara

woody
12-31-2003, 11:29 PM
All I can say is I agree with all who tell you to refuse the cue. The shafts mated with the cue should roll straight and they never unwarp themself. One thing I didn't see anyone comment on (and will be eager to hear the result)is when you roll the cue and shaft, watch the pin and female shaft connection, do they roll straight? Good Luck!

Ralph S.
12-31-2003, 11:55 PM
With the problems you described, the solution is simple. It does not matter if the cue cost you one hundred dollars or one thousand dollars. The cue should have been in a sellable state and as near perfect as possible. Demand a full refund...imediately!

BLACKHEART
01-01-2004, 01:03 AM
I had shafts on a Schon, that rolled perfect in summer & had a slight warp during the dry winters of Illinois. Maybe that's what they mean by UNWARPING THEMSELVES. The Qmaker shouldn't have a problem returning your money. If it were one of my Qs, I would rather bend over backwards, than have the bad will of a customer. It's just good business...JER

recoveryjones
01-01-2004, 01:49 AM
Hi Glupidio, First of all sorry to hear about your cue.I can understand that you're feeling bummed out because I would be too.I recently purchased a Foster Custom cue. After reading your post I decided to give the butt and shaft a roll test and much to my relief they're still as straight as can be.What troubles me about your salesman is the fact that he acknowledged that the shafts were warped right in your presence after FIRST giving you a story about the leather wrap....hmmmmm!. Any reputable cue dealer should have told you RIGHT THEN AND THERE that he'd replace the shaft.Reputation should be of utmost importance to any cue dealer ESPECIALLY a custom cue maker.For him to give you warp stories leaves me feeling that he is a little warped himself.Furthermore if shafts to tend to warp(do they under normal care?) in time there is no excuse for one being warped at the time of sale...NONE!!!Sorry to say it but he SHAFTED you, pun intended.The bottom line is with a warped shaft you might not feel good psycologically or at least I wouldn't and pool has a mental aspect to it for sure.Please don't procrastinate on this....tell him you want a new shaft or a refund immediatly. Good Luck. RJ
ps. If he doesn't deal with you fairly on this please let me (us?) know who he is so I don't have any dealings with him down the road.

glupidio
01-02-2004, 08:51 AM
Thanks for all your feedback on this guys! I have received my money back. So far he has expressed little interest in preserving the deal by replacing the warped shafts. Mind boggling.

tateuts
01-02-2004, 09:22 AM
Well, I salute him for refunding you. However, all this information we gave you deserves payback. Like the commercial says, we want to know.

Who is the cue maker?

Even just his initials would be fine. Come on, let's have it.

Chris

Popcorn
01-02-2004, 11:28 AM
Why do you want to know? The guy did the right thing and may even have learned a lesson. No need to beat up on him.

Cueless Joey
01-02-2004, 12:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Well, I salute him for refunding you. However, all this information we gave you deserves payback. Like the commercial says, we want to know.

Who is the cue maker?
Well known Texas cueamaker near Austin?
Hmn, stainless steel joint or phenolic? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Even just his initials would be fine. Come on, let's have it.

Chris <hr /></blockquote>

tateuts
01-02-2004, 12:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Why do you want to know? The guy did the right thing and may even have learned a lesson. No need to beat up on him. <hr /></blockquote>

Well gee Popcorn, if I would have known it was you I wouldn't have asked...sorry.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

tateuts
01-02-2004, 01:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Who is the cue maker?
Well known Texas cueamaker near Austin?
Hmn, stainless steel joint or phenolic? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Are you going to make me work for this? Let's see... where's Austin...

Chris

Cueless Joey
01-02-2004, 01:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Who is the cue maker?
Well known Texas cueamaker near Austin?
Hmn, stainless steel joint or phenolic? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>
There are at least three prominent cuemakers out of Texas.
I'm guessing who it is but would rather not guess aloud.

tateuts
01-02-2004, 02:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> There are at least three prominent cuemakers out of Texas.
I'm guessing who it is but would rather not guess aloud.

<hr /></blockquote>

Wow, I am speechless by the courage of our group.

I say LB.I would be amazed if it's RB or BS.

Chris

glupidio
01-02-2004, 02:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Who is the cue maker?
<hr /></blockquote>I do appreciate everyone's help, but I'd rather not say. My feeling is that this is an isolated incident and not a systemic problem. I suspect that the pressure of the holidays combined with an already loaded schedule may be to blame. It's disappointing, but I agree with Popcorn that he doesn't deserve a public flogging. Thanks again for all your feedback.

pooltchr
01-02-2004, 03:12 PM
Then there is always JO out of Texas. But I agree there is no point in carrying it too far. The cue makers are in a big crunch right now. They have two major shows in a two week period in March and April to get ready for, and that can't be much fun for them. It's most likely just an isolated incident. It does point out that no matter where you shop, you still need to check the quality of what you are buying, regardless of who makes it.

NH_Steve
01-02-2004, 04:11 PM
I've had a pretty good cue mechanic show me that rolling a cue stick flat on the felt isn't the best way to determine straightness -- he likes to roll it with the tip on the felt, and the butt up on the rail, so there are just those two contact points near each end of the cue. Guiding the cue by holding it gently around the joint area, he could pick up the slightest tweak in the cue as it rolled. Anyone else seen or tried this?

He found a very slight wobble in my own early 80's Shon, but I think my stroke has a little more built-in wobble, so I don't mind that little bit in the stick -- maybe if I get my arm wobble and my stick wobble perfectly aligned, then I'll never miss again /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ralph S.
01-02-2004, 04:14 PM
I have seen this done, but am not sure if it is better. I am sure a cue tech or maker has such a good feel for the slightest imperfections they could notice one which ever way they checked the cue.

tateuts
01-02-2004, 04:30 PM
I just sight down the cue in good light and slowly turn it. You can easily see anything that's not right.

Chris

Chris Cass
01-03-2004, 02:42 AM
Hi Ralph,

I always roll mine down my driveway. Then again I have the perfect slope. Let me know when you get that Blackheart. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.

oldfart
01-03-2004, 05:05 AM
Just a thought. Maybe this guy gave your money back instead of giving you new shafts so he could sell the thing to some other poor soul.

griffith_d
01-04-2004, 05:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Then there is always JO out of Texas. But I agree there is no point in carrying it too far. The cue makers are in a big crunch right now. They have two major shows in a two week period in March and April to get ready for, and that can't be much fun for them. It's most likely just an isolated incident. It does point out that no matter where you shop, you still need to check the quality of what you are buying, regardless of who makes it. <hr /></blockquote>

I know JO,...he would never allow a dissatisfied customer.

Griff

griffith_d
01-04-2004, 05:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Who is the cue maker?
Well known Texas cueamaker near Austin?
Hmn, stainless steel joint or phenolic? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<hr /></blockquote>
There are at least three prominent cuemakers out of Texas.
I'm guessing who it is but would rather not guess aloud.

<hr /></blockquote>

The ones I know of and that most everyone else does too is in Humble, Houston, Pearland and Leakey,...Austin,..Mmmmm.

Griff

Irish
01-04-2004, 08:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote oldfart:</font><hr> Just a thought. Maybe this guy gave your money back instead of giving you new shafts so he could sell the thing to some other poor soul. <hr /></blockquote>

Exactly true. Actually since he reufused to build new shafts for it to keep the sale I am sure he intends to do this. A cue maker that would act such as the original poster has mentioned does not deserve annonimity and keeping him private is only going to hurt future cue buyers who may get taken for a ride by this guy.

tateuts
01-04-2004, 11:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Irish:</font><hr> A cue maker that would act such as the original poster has mentioned does not deserve annonimity and keeping him private is only going to hurt future cue buyers who may get taken for a ride by this guy. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree but that's the way it is, I guess, but let's keep in mind there are two sides to every story and we've heard just one side of it.

However, I must say that the customer's opinion weighs heavily toward the rep of a maker. His following is all he has, really, because dealers can't move cues nobody wants. Maybe if everyone spoke up sooner there wouldn't be the hundreds (thousands?) of makers out there having to sell defective cues to stay in business.

Chris