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View Full Version : Say it ain't so Pete.



Cueless Joey
01-05-2004, 11:43 AM
He's coming out "clean".
Is he really sorry or just broke down and finally realized lying and more lying would get him nowhere.

rukiddingme
01-05-2004, 12:51 PM
Pete is and has been so full of ####.
He is one big LOSER. He had a gambling problem, he bet on baseball and once he was found out did not have the guts and decency to admit that he was wrong. He was given plenty of opportunities to come clean...the timing of his confession in a new book he has written is deplorable. He just wants to make more $$$$$$$$$$$$ off of the baseball fan. He is not going to make one penny from me because I refuse to buy his book.
ruk

Wally_in_Cincy
01-05-2004, 12:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> He's coming out "clean".
Is he really sorry

<font color="blue">No. He has never quit gambling and is unrepentant about it. Like Bill Bennett and Michael Jordan, he has enough cash coming in to keep him afloat. Were he a normal working schlep he would be in the gutter. </font color>

or just broke down and finally realized lying and more lying would get him nowhere.

<font color="blue">Yes he realizes that. But I don't think he's remorseful. He's trying to pull the wool over his fans' eyes, as usual. </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">I was never a huge Pete Rose fan. He and Bench used to own a bowling alley. He dissed me and my brother when we were kids and I never forgave him /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>

<font color="red">Tony Perez forever. Pete Rose never. </font color>

ray
01-05-2004, 12:55 PM
i think pete HAD to say it or else he wouldn't get his RIGHTFUL spot in the hall of fame...

so my question is, should pete be in the hall or not?!

my vote is YES!

ray

Wally_in_Cincy
01-05-2004, 12:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> I was never a huge Pete Rose fan. <hr /></blockquote>

But I did like it when he kicked Bud Harrelson's ass. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

rukiddingme
01-05-2004, 01:01 PM
his rightfull spot in the hall of fame????...you've got to be kidding!
his rightfull spot is in the gutter!
ruk

rukiddingme
01-05-2004, 01:08 PM
the guy was given plenty of opportunities by the league to come clean and he did not...hell he is still trying to make money off of baseball and laughing his way to the bank.
The guy is a hick loser poster child!
ruk

Cueless Joey
01-05-2004, 01:11 PM
Yup, how can baseball honor this man with a hall of fame induction?
Hell, Shoeless Joe is not even in.

ray
01-05-2004, 01:19 PM
let's talk numbers..

4256 hits, and an additional 45 hits (and .381 avg.) in the LCS for another record, most games played (3562), second place finish in doubles (746), fourth in runs (2165).

i aint through yet..

lifetime .303 hitter, 3 batting titles, fifteen years of .300 or more, led the league in hits 7 times, led the league in doubles 5 times, and topped 200 hits 10 times.

sorry, but if his name wasn't rose, he'd be in the hall..

ray

Wally_in_Cincy
01-05-2004, 01:20 PM
Then again, regarding the possibility of manipulating or dumping games, should pool players be the group to judge Pete? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally~~never dumped anything, nope no way, nobody can prove anything /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
01-05-2004, 01:22 PM
despite his great career I don't see how he should be in the HOF. He has stained the game too much.

ray
01-05-2004, 01:25 PM
entry into the hall of fame should be based solely on your career numbers..

hell, ty cobb ran into the stands and beat up a fan that was in a wheelchair and had one hand!

baseball's hall of fame isn't filled with nice guys, ya know..

ray

go pete!

Iowashark
01-05-2004, 03:49 PM
Should he be in the HOF? Yes. I don't think what he has done constitutes a lifetime ban not allowing him in the HOF.
I think the book he wrote in order to admit and apology might not have been the right way to go about it. Then again if he hadn't wrote Pete Rose the Autobiography, someone else would have cashed in on The Story of Pete Rose.
He's not tooting his own horn, he's beating everybody to the first buck on this one. Is he a world-class human being? No. Was he a hall of fame caliber baseball player? Yes.

I do in a way think that pool players should probably be the last athletes to look down their noses at Pete for gambling.

Cueless Joey
01-05-2004, 04:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
My brother is a friend of Bud Selig's brother who told him they had irrefutable evidence that Rose bet on the Reds to lose while he was the manager of the Reds. For that reason alone, I hope MLB never lets him in the HOF or back into baseball <hr /></blockquote>
What if this were true?
He was a gambling addict so it's not a stretch.

JPB
01-05-2004, 09:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ray:</font><hr> entry into the hall of fame should be based solely on your career numbers..

hell, ty cobb ran into the stands and beat up a fan that was in a wheelchair and had one hand!

baseball's hall of fame isn't filled with nice guys, ya know..

ray

go pete!

<hr /></blockquote>

Ty Cobb was an awful person. A racist POS..But there is no MLB rule about being an awful person. There is a rule about gambling on baseball. EVERY player knows that to bet on baseball is a lifetime ban. They are told all about it and all about why. Pete bet on baseball. He should be banned for life. He was a great player. but so was Shoeless Joe. He should not be in the Hall. And he may not get voted in by the veteran's committee if he doesn't get in by 2005.

Everybody who say him play enjoyed it. Most everyone who has met Pete says he's an arrogant ass. Neither thing is relevant. He should be banned.

Note to MLB. If you let Pete back you are saying it is OK for players and managers to gamble on the games. OK for managers to be betting w/ illegal books on the outcomes of games they manage. Fine. Hopefully all the people who bet the games will stop and your fan base will shrink. After all your bogus "national pasttime" whining and fraudulent antitrust exemption crap, I won't be watching again ever, unless and until the Cubs make it to the series. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Cueless Joey
01-05-2004, 09:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
until the Cubs make it to the series. <hr /></blockquote>
They better preserve your body then. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rich R.
01-06-2004, 05:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> despite his great career I don't see how he should be in the HOF. He has stained the game too much. <hr /></blockquote>
Wally, Pete is a Boy Scout, compared to some of the players who are already in the HOF.
The man should be judged on his play for the HOF. It is not Sainthood, it is a baseball players HOF.

eg8r
01-06-2004, 10:01 AM
I am not sure why he finally came out and told everyone the truth (if it is the truth), but it is about time. How long can someone live a lie and be happy. Also, how many people "truly" believed that he did not gamble???? These are probably all the same people that believe OJ is innocent. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
01-06-2004, 10:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> ..how many people "truly" believed that he did not gamble???? ...<hr /></blockquote>

All the good Germans on the west side of Cincinnati /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
01-06-2004, 10:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I am not sure why he finally came out and told everyone the truth

<font color="green">$$$$$$$$$$$$$ </font color>

(if it is the truth), but it is about time.

<font color="blue">14 years too late </font color>

How long can someone live a lie and be happy. ...<hr /></blockquote>

He doesn't have a conscience when it comes to money and gambling. He's an arrogant prick and a degenerate liar.

One his main accusers was a guy named Paul Janzen. Janzen wasn't rich, he owned a gym where he got to know Pete. Pete still owes him $30,000 believe it or not.

Wally_in_Cincy
01-06-2004, 10:44 AM
There's a backlash against Pete here in Cincy. He probably thought after he came clean everybody would say "Oh you poor boy, it's ok, you just have a disease". In actuality everybody is pissed. He's a confirmed liar now. He has done nothing in the last 14 years to change his life. He gambles all his money away. I would bet (ha ha) he hasn't given Pete Jr. or daughter Fawn any money at all in forever. He originally called his accusers liars and scumbags. Now everybody realizes he's the liar and scumbag.

Let me tell you something about Pete. He barely knew his daughter Fawn (by his first wife Karolyn). He ran around screwing everything in sight during that marriage and Karolyn was/is a wonderful woman and mother. He uses people up like they're dog crap on his shoe sole. It's sickening.

and Johnny Bench is a jerk too /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

More sports guys should be like Boomer and Chris Collinsworth. Those are the good guys.

ray
01-06-2004, 11:33 AM
now i agree, pete was a prick!

a buddy of mine used to pitch for the astros from 79-83, he told me stories of pete rose giving club house kids lists of [censored] to go get for him and when they came back they would get a $5 tip.

ryan would ask them to go get some skoal and he'd give them $100!

baseball players HATED pete, but like i said let the numbers speak for themselves..

ray

btw, a clubhouse boy is THE most underrated job in baseball..

Iowashark
01-06-2004, 12:39 PM
Does anybody know if the book says whether or not Pete was gambling during playing days? Or was it just as a manager...
If he was clean during his playing days I think he should be inducted for his player status, disregarding his manager status. Jm2c...

eg8r
01-06-2004, 01:01 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r

Candyman
01-06-2004, 03:19 PM
now i agree, pete was a prick!

----------------------------------------------------
If he doesn't make the HOF maybe he can team up with Hillary in '08. He seems to have all of the credentials. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ralph S.
01-06-2004, 09:24 PM
I am a baseball fan and now it's my turn to put my two cents worth into the mix.

Bottom line, as a player, Rose is arguably the best ever. Also, accomplishments in the game is what gains recognition, and Rose's stats can hold their own against anbody, including Babe Ruth.

Before anyone says it is unfair to compare Rose to Ruth, look at Ruth's past. He did just as much injustice to the game as Rose, only in a different way. As mentioned already, Ty "The Georgia Peach" Cobb, wasn't exactly peachy keen when it came to morals either. Both are in the HOF.

Many players battled drug and alcohol problems, they made the HOF. If they weren't sports icons, they would be doing 10-20 years in prison, like an average person such as ourselves.

Rose deserves to get the call to the Hall. He has paid his due, and should be allowed back into baseball, with the stipulation that he can't hold any coaching or managerial positions on the field or in the front office.

rukiddingme
01-07-2004, 01:17 AM
Charley hustle is sure hustling us again!!!
The bottom line is this...you can be the best player ever...you can be the biggest SOB ever,you can drink, carouse and sleep with whomever
BUT...if you BET on baseball while still in baseball you are banned and out forever period!...seems pretty cut and dry to me.
ruk

Ralph S.
01-07-2004, 01:41 AM
Well RUK, we are both entitled to our opinions. I will stay with mine. I am for Rose getting to the HOF. Every one has skeletons in their closet. The only difference is, Rose's closet was opened to the public. I do not condone what he did at all. I truly regret he tarnished his image in such a manner.

On the other hand, Pete did not do this as a player. He did it as a manager. The credentials from the playing days is what makes him deserving, and if there is any justice in this world, Pete will make the Hall of Fame.

Like him or not, his stats speak for themselves. He has also set the one of the few records that will never be broken. I hope that the powers that be do the right thing. Re-instate Pete Rose and let him take his deserved place in Cooperstown.

rukiddingme
01-07-2004, 02:02 AM
you are right...we are all entitled to our opinions...that is part of what makes life so very interesting /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
ruk

eg8r
01-07-2004, 07:33 AM
While, I would not be completely upset if Rose was in the HOF, I think you and the other supporters are missing the main point. GAMBLING!!!! Why do people continue to compare Ty Cobb to Pete Rose. What they did was completely wrong but not the same thing. If you want to be in the comparison business, at least choose someone who did the same injustice. Joe Jackson is a lot closer than Ty Cobb, and look at what happened to him.

This is not really about Pete Rose being a "bad boy" but rather him betting against his own team, and betting on baseball as a whole. When Ty Cobb walked up and hit a fan in the stands, he was not punching the entire MLB Association. There are rules against gambling and the punishment is being banned(it even happened to Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle for a short while). There is no rule to ban a player if he gets into a fight, so why do you continue to make this comparison???

eg8r

eg8r
01-07-2004, 07:34 AM
It does not get any clearer than that. Some people just don't want to accept the rules or think they should be bent for special people.

eg8r

eg8r
01-07-2004, 07:39 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Every one has skeletons in their closet. The only difference is, Rose's closet was opened to the public. <hr /></blockquote> All the other players that have been listed had their skeletons out in the open also, how do you think the public knows all of it.

As far as tarnishing his image, sure, but image is not the reason for rules against gambling on baseball while still participating.

[ QUOTE ]
He has also set the one of the few records that will never be broken. <hr /></blockquote> Never say never. However I agree there is a strong chance they will not be broken. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Peter Gammons said something on ESPN that I thought was interesting...(paraphrased) If a grad student was caught cheating, you would not take away his undergrad degree.

eg8r

JPB
01-07-2004, 09:21 AM
[

Peter Gammons said something on ESPN that I thought was interesting...(paraphrased) If a grad student was caught cheating, you would not take away his undergrad degree.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

This is a soundbite argument. If a grad student was caught cheating he wouldn't be hired at the school again or put in its hall of fame. And the situation is different and Gammons knows it.

Cueless Joey
01-07-2004, 10:21 AM
Yup.
If an umpire or a player is caught betting on baseball, he is banned for life.
If Pete Rose is caught betting on baseball, he is inducted to the hall of fame?
Pete called other managers about thier starting pitchers before games and to THIS DAY denies he made bets while in the clubhouse. Right.
So he bet on his team but said he didn't bet against them. OK, so if the Reds were playing that day and he had a bet on the game, wouldn't you think he made decisions so he can win that game that might have jeopardize the team's season ( such as overworking the reliever )?
Baseball's INTEGRITY has to be preserved. Pete should be the poster boy for the ant-gambling message since, apparently, the golden rule posted in ALL locker rooms was not enough.
If you want Pete in the hall, fine. But, this azzhole should never be allowed to work as a manager in MLB again.
He's still lying to this day imo.

eg8r
01-07-2004, 11:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
He's still lying to this day imo. <hr /></blockquote> I am sure he is. No way he spills his guts. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
01-07-2004, 11:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr>
...if the Reds were playing that day and he had a bet on the game, wouldn't you think he made decisions so he can win that game that might have jeopardize the team's season ( such as overworking the reliever )?

<font color="blue">Absolutely. </font color>

...this azzhole should never be allowed to work as a manager in MLB again.

<font color="blue">Preach on brother. Unless he cleans his act up, which he won't, he will never return to MLB in any capacity.

Instead of going down in history as a hero, he will go down as a degenerate. It's a shame really </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Kato
01-07-2004, 11:36 AM
I am completely torn on this issue, let me try to explain.

First, Pete Rose is definitely a HOF'er, his career stats speak for themselves (I don't put Pete in my top 10 but there's room for him). Second, he's selling a book, not setting the record straight, this really bothers me. Third, he wants back in as a manager, this really eats at me.

Pete Rose "The Player" should be in the HOF, Pete Rose the Manager/Gambler should never be allowed back in the clubhouse. The question is whether MLB will make a distinction between the 2.

OK, I'm off the fence, here we go. It's really amazing, for 14 years I've been saying that Pete Rose should be in the HOF. Now that he's come 50% clean I'm not so sure. If Pete bared all and then in 6 months came out with his "Tell All" book it wouldn't have bugged me so much.

Now this is what makes my decision and really annoys me. Pete Rose made the announcement the same day Paul Molitor and Dennis Eckersley were announced for the HOF. That's really low. A great day in the professional careers and 2 great players get put on the back burner. See, it really is all about Pete. That being said, I digress, SCREW YOU PETE ROSE!!!!!!!!! You do not deserve the HOF and you don't deserve baseball which for my money is still the greatest game on the planet.

Kato~~~is done venting.

Candyman
01-07-2004, 11:38 AM
I shouldn't have made that post Ralph. I'm sorry. I tried to delete, but time to delete had expired. Pete is doing what he has always done,(on and off the field) FIGHT LIKE HELL for what he thought was right. I don't know of another player, that I enjoyed watching play more than Pete. He always gave 100%. It would surprise me if his habit ever influenced an outcome of a game. He is a man that could always be counted on. If I went to war I would hope he was on my side. He needs another chance. Look at all of the chances Strawberry got? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
01-07-2004, 11:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr>
Pete Rose "The Player" should be in the HOF, Pete Rose the Manager/Gambler should never be allowed back in the clubhouse.

<font color="blue">It would not bother me that much to see him in the HOF but definitely not in MLB.

But do you realize the only reason he wants to be in the HOF is so his autograph is worth more. That's all he's got to sell. He's already old his 1975 World Series trophy and his 4192 bat and ball. Can you believe that? </font color>

Now this is what makes my decision and really annoys me. Pete Rose made the announcement the same day Paul Molitor and Dennis Eckersley were announced for the HOF. That's really low. A great day in the professional careers and 2 great players get put on the back burner.

<font color="blue">Not to mention the death of Tug McGraw, one of the coolest players ever. That barely got 2 column inches here locally. The whole sports section was about Pete. </font color>


See, it really is all about Pete.

<font color="blue">Yep. and it's all about the money. He needs it to feed his addiction. </font color>

That being said, I digress, SCREW YOU PETE ROSE!!!!!!!!!

<font color="blue">Well said. Pete would screw anybody to support his gambling. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

ray
01-07-2004, 12:09 PM
on the other hand..

does anyone know what odds pete's bookie is giving him to get into the hall?!

ray

GO PETE!

btw, shoeless joe should be in too, in the fixed 1919 series vs the reds he hit .375 with 6 RBI's..

he got banned because he KNEW of the gambling, not because he was gambling..

cheesemouse
01-07-2004, 12:23 PM
Pete was not a very convincing liar and now that it can further HIS cause he is even a less plausable truth teller. I think it is called a credibility gap. Pete made his own bed of thorned roses and will surely ly in it till his dying day. His numbers are great and undoubtebly quailfiy him for the HOF but he shouldn't enjoy it for one day on this earth; the day after he leaves this earth he gets my vote for the HOF.

eg8r
01-07-2004, 12:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
He needs another chance. Look at all of the chances Strawberry got? <hr /></blockquote> Is there anything even remotely similar to Strawberry and Rose? Strawberry's actions would only hurt himself, Rose's actions could have hurt much more.

eg8r

Ralph S.
01-07-2004, 02:50 PM
EG8R, you ask why I continue to make the comparisons. Well, lets take a look. You yourself, mentioned that this even happened to Mays and Mantle. They are in the Hall of Fame, so why not Rose?

Joe Jackson....similar situation but not entirely. He was part of a scandal that included eight players, not just himself alone. Those eight players threw the World Series!!!!!!!! That is a far cry from one player/manager calling his bookie and saying put me down for two hundred on the Reds over the Dodgers.

Cueless Joey
01-07-2004, 05:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> EG8R, you ask why I continue to make the comparisons. Well, lets take a look. You yourself, mentioned that this even happened to Mays and Mantle. They are in the Hall of Fame, so why not Rose?

Joe Jackson....similar situation but not entirely. He was part of a scandal that included eight players, not just himself alone. Those eight players threw the World Series!!!!!!!! That is a far cry from one player/manager calling his bookie and saying put me down for two hundred on the Reds over the Dodgers. <hr /></blockquote>
And why would we NOT suspect Pete bet against his team???
Please, convince us that a GAMBLING addict who is up in his neck in DEBT, would not bet against his team?
Then again, that's what MLB is trying to prevent. Don't bet on baseball because the MOB WILL try to make you take a dive.
Pete used to claim he bet on dogs but not on baseball on the old Donahue show. He said he was a gambling addict but he did not bet on baseball. Great. That's like saying you're alcoholic but you don't drink hard liquor.
Mays worked for a casino when he retired, if I'm not mistaken.
My dos centavos. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Joey~ Loves baseball and wants to maintain it's integrity for our kids' sake.

ray
01-07-2004, 06:06 PM
shoeless joe also never comitted an error in the series..

ray

i'm a baseball freak, too..

Cueless Joey
01-07-2004, 06:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ray:</font><hr> shoeless joe also never comitted an error in the series..

ray

i'm a baseball freak, too..

<hr /></blockquote> And hit like .375?

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ray
01-07-2004, 06:14 PM
.375, 6 rbi's AND no errors.

shoeless joe was the man..

ray

Barbara
01-07-2004, 06:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Joey~ Loves baseball and wants to maintain it's integrity for our kids' sake.
<hr /></blockquote>
"They should teach Little Leaguers how to sign autographs. They don't emphasize that enough." -- Tug Mcgraw

Ot something to that effect as was quoted in the Philadelphia Inquirer yesterday.

Barbara~~~will miss the Tugger /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

(was a HUGE fan of baseball in the 70s and 80s and couldn't hate the Cincinatti Reds enough in the 70s!) /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Kato
01-08-2004, 07:07 AM
According to Fay Vincent on PTI the other day he was also most certainly mentally retarded. Not horribly so but so. (Shoeless Joe Jackson that is)

PS. Right now on 940 AM Fox Sports Pete Rose's bookie is on the radio.

eg8r
01-08-2004, 09:03 AM
[ QUOTE ]
EG8R, you ask why I continue to make the comparisons. Well, lets take a look. You yourself, mentioned that this even happened to Mays and Mantle. They are in the Hall of Fame, so why not Rose?
<hr /></blockquote> You don't understand the question obviously. You were trying to make comparisons with bad boys (which is not against the rules) and a person associated with baseball gambling on baseball (which is against the rules). The comparison (Cobb's actions to Rose's actions)is not there, which is why I asked. As far as Mantle and Mays, the ban was lifted because it was stupid in the first place, they were not gambling.

[ QUOTE ]
Joe Jackson....similar situation but not entirely. He was part of a scandal that included eight players, not just himself alone. Those eight players threw the World Series!!!!!!!! That is a far cry from one player/manager calling his bookie and saying put me down for two hundred on the Reds over the Dodgers. <hr /></blockquote> The comparison of Jackson and Rose is not about quantity of players involved, but rather the very high level of the situation, GAMBLING. While Jackson was not gambling, he was part of, or had knowledge of the throwing of the series (obviously so someone gambling would win the money). This comparison is a million times better than saying, well Ty Cobb was mean. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Candyman
01-08-2004, 12:22 PM
Is there anything even remotely similar to Strawberry and Rose? Strawberry's actions would only hurt himself, Rose's actions could have hurt much more.
----------------------------------------------------------
There are couple of things remotely similar. (1)They both had serious addictions. (2)They were both kicked out of baseball. You obviously don't know much about drug addiction. My family has been devastated for 22 years by an addicted son. It stretches out far from the immediate family also. Everybody is a potential victim that has contact with an addict. They will scam, lie, cheat, harm, rob at gun point, steal, and even murder to support their habbit. I will take a gambler anyday over drug addict.

eg8r
01-08-2004, 01:18 PM
In my quote, I am referring to any similarities in their shortcomings as far as MLB is concerned. As far as MLB is concerned drug addiction and betting on baseball are two completely different things (I guess similar only by the mere fact that both are addictive).

In reference to the drug addict hurting himself and the gambler hurting more, I think your situation has aided you in looking into my statment and seeing more than what was there. I am referring to the two things as far as MLB is concerned...A drug addict hurts himself, sure it hurts the team because he may not be performing up to par, however there are other drugs in which he could take that could certainly help out his performance. In contrast, there is nothing good that comes out of gambling, and that is what Rose was doing. Since he has lied since the beginning there leaves little doubt he is not lying now. So, with that in mind, what is to say that one day Rose decided to bet his Reds would lose. In this case, if he were so prone to make the bet, what would keep him from screwing with his team (lineup, players, etc) to make sure the Reds lost?

This is the difference I was trying to make. Strawberry is high on coke, oh well, he has screwed up his career and is kicked out. If Rose bets against the Reds, what is to say he will not on purpose hamper his own teams chance of winning if that outcome would pay him more?

eg8r

rukiddingme
01-09-2004, 06:58 AM
Pete "understands" he made a mistake and "he shouldnt had did it" but he sure did not say he was "sorry"...nothing approaching an apology whatsoever.
He gets my vote for the LOSER Hall of Fame.
ruk

Ralph S.
01-09-2004, 02:12 PM
I would like to reiterate my thoughts on this as some have misunderstood them. I am not defending Pete Rose. I am not saying that what he did should have gone unpunished. What I am saying, however, is that his accomplishments as a player should allow him induction into the HOF.

I also feel the same way about Joe Jackson.

Pete chose to do what he did, he has to live with the decision he made. Remember, this was done after he retired from playing. What he did as a manger was and is wrong, but as a player there is no proof he threw or fixed a game.

The bottom line, is that stats are what get you into the HOF. Many players would love to have his stats and accomplishments.

Also, his former team mates, have made their feelings known, and rightfully so. I will say this though, they wouldn't have accomplised as much as they did without Rose. Pete Rose was the Big Red Machine. He was it's heart and soul.

To err is human, to forgive is divine. I feel that there are many wrongs that should and could be righted. For those who can't forgive, I am sorry. Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame. I will never be convinced otherwise.

ray
01-09-2004, 02:19 PM
i totally agree with ralph..

BUT, if you are not gonna allow joe and pete into the hall, take out their jerseys, bats, balls etc..

don't say that these guys are not allowed into the hall but their gear can be.

ray

pete should go first ballot..

eg8r
01-09-2004, 03:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Remember, this was done after he retired from playing. <hr /></blockquote> Are you somehow privy to all the information available as to Pete's gambling habits. I would find it quite tough to believe Pete became a gambler "after" he retired as a player. Do you honestly believe his betting on baseball happened only after he retired? Or do you only care about the time frame in which he was "caught". I truly believe Pete is sorry, he is sorry for being caught, and quite happy he was caught while he was a manager and not a player.

Also, is there any proof that Pete was not gambling as a player/manager? I would almost have to disregard everything you have ever said if you think Pete was a saint during his playing years and he only started gambling when he became a manager. :0

I do like the idea of Pete making the ballot the year after he takes his last breath. While he was a remarkable player, he is also a disgrace. I don't think there is any reason whatsoever to give him the satisfaction of entering the HOF while he is alive. Once he is gone, then induction should be a sure thing. He was a great player, no doubt about it.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
01-09-2004, 03:33 PM
I just hope he gets help with his gambling problem. He probably feels like a dipsh*t for throwing away all those millions. Or maybe in his own mind he justifies it as strictly entertainment.

He recently dropped $25,000 in one day at River Downs in Cincy.

ray
01-09-2004, 03:56 PM
eg8r,

do you have any proof that he WAS gambling during his playing days?!

that argument could go back and forth, the only FACTS that we have that we can go on is that he gambled AS A MANAGER and he kicked ass AS A PLAYER..

first ballot, baby..

ray

eg8r
01-09-2004, 08:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
that argument could go back and forth, the only FACTS that we have that we can go on is that he gambled AS A MANAGER and he kicked ass AS A PLAYER..
<hr /></blockquote> There is no argument, just be honest with yourself. Besides that fact that he was an awesome player (which no one has ever disputed) he was a gambler. Now just when do you honestly believe that began?

eg8r &lt;~~~Asking ray to be honest is a lot more than anyone expects from Rose, I wonder why????/

Ralph S.
01-09-2004, 09:51 PM
eg8r &lt;~~~Asking ray to be honest is a lot more than anyone expects from Rose, I wonder why????/


Eg8r, I have no beef with you personally, as I am sure Ray doesn't either. The comment you made was a little unfair. This is a friendly debate, or so I thought.

Each is entitled to his opinion. By the way, can you dispute Ray's question with evidence? Where is the proof that Rose bet for or against his team as a player? I am all ears.

eg8r
01-09-2004, 10:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The comment you made was a little unfair. This is a friendly debate, or so I thought.
<hr /></blockquote> The comment was not made to be mean to ray, but rather to show what is expected Rose. I was asking ray to be honest as to whether he really felt Rose had only begun gambling on baseball when he became manager. Does he honestly believe that? If so, fine.

No I don't have indisputable evidence that he had gambled prior, however, do you honestly believe he did not? I find it hard to believe anyone thinks Rose is telling the whole truth right now. He is only sorry for getting caught, and it is a shame he got caught so late.

eg8r

ray
01-10-2004, 08:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
that argument could go back and forth, the only FACTS that we have that we can go on is that he gambled AS A MANAGER and he kicked ass AS A PLAYER..
<hr /></blockquote> There is no argument, just be honest with yourself. Besides that fact that he was an awesome player (which no one has ever disputed) he was a gambler. Now just when do you honestly believe that began?

eg8r &lt;~~~Asking ray to be honest is a lot more than anyone expects from Rose, I wonder why????/ <hr /></blockquote>


such harsh words..

yet those words do not provide evidence of gambling during his playing days.

which you just ASSUME that he did.

you know what they say about assumptions..

ray

btw, since you don't know me personally.. stick to the facts! i'll be more than happy to let you talk about my mother once we get to know each other.. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

oh yeah... FIRST BALLOT, BABY!

eg8r
01-10-2004, 12:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
btw, since you don't know me personally.. stick to the facts! i'll be more than happy to let you talk about my mother once we get to know each other..
<hr /></blockquote> Anyone ever bring up your mother?

I am sticking to the facts, he was a gambler. What part of that do you not understand/comprehend. What I asked you was a question, I did not say anything was fact other than his skill and his gambling. Don't turn this around as an assumption at all. What I am doing is asking you a question as to when you believe he began gambling on baseball?

What is so tough about that, except that you don't want to admit it did not start so late.

eg8r

ray
01-10-2004, 12:43 PM
eg8r,

easy killer, i was being sarcastic..


[ QUOTE ]
What I am doing is asking you a question as to when you believe he began gambling on baseball?<hr /></blockquote>

and now for the great question. I HAVE NO IDEA when he began gambling


[ QUOTE ]
What is so tough about that, except that you don't want to admit it did not start so late.<hr /></blockquote>


the tough part is that there is no proof that it started so early..


ray