PDA

View Full Version : The Nine Ball break



bluewolf
01-06-2004, 07:40 AM
In playing 9b I am finding out that even if balls go in, if the balls do not go where I want them to go, this makes a run out difficult. My cb usually ends up in the middle of the table, but the other balls are often in difficult positional places.

I have gotten pretty good at those long shots and shape is getting better but my break in terms of getting the balls to go where I want is a problem.

Any suggestions? Or is this just trial and error learning. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Laura

ras314
01-06-2004, 08:15 AM
Hahahahaha. Laura, if you ever find out how to do that let me know. Nobody else, just me and we'll both get rich!

I've been trying all sorts of breaks, including some that wind up scratching too much. For a while I had the cb hopping straight up a foot, little movement of the obs. On bar boxes I've gone back to center breaks and just use less speed and try to hold the cb near middle. Just near impossible to get consisent racks.

Gets fustrating to make a wing ball and wind up hooked on the one ball. Seems to happen less with a softer break but sure leaves a mess to try to run out.

ryushen21
01-06-2004, 08:38 AM
Yeah, my nine ball break has been frustrating lately too. i can always get a good spread and at least one ball on the break, but after that things go screwy. I end up having to play safe or go for some really tough shots. I've varied positions, played all ranges of power, dropped the elbow, not dropped the elbow and about 5 other things but no luck. i guess the break is one of those things left in the hands of the almighty pool gods.

Wally_in_Cincy
01-06-2004, 09:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Hahahahaha. Laura, if you ever find out how to do that let me know. ...<hr /></blockquote>

I don't know if you've watched the US Open final with Parica and Jones, but Jones seemed to have it figured out. On that table on that day anyway.

Jose wasn't happy /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

woody_968
01-06-2004, 09:35 AM
Much of what is happening on the pro side is due to the tight rack being used. If you had the exact same rack every time you would be able to get the balls to go close to where you want them to. But for those of us that use a normal wooden rack (most of us /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) we will have small differences in each rack so predicting what will happen becomes very difficult.

I know that everyone that has posted to this thread already knows this, just pointing it out to some of the newer posters that may be reading.

UWPoolGod
01-06-2004, 09:55 AM
One thing I try to look at is where on the rack the 2 ball is. Knowing the position routes of the rack balls on a break are important in guessing which area a ball will head. I end up breaking accordingly with different english positions to get the cueball uptable or downtable. Makes for at least the opportunity to get on the next ball.

pooltchr
01-06-2004, 09:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Hahahahaha. Laura, if you ever find out how to do that let me know. ...<hr /></blockquote>

Jones seemed to have it figured out. <hr /></blockquote>

Jeremy has figured out a lot of things that most of us haven't even thought about! Of course, Jose has his share of secrets as well! LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RedHell
01-06-2004, 10:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote UWPoolGod:</font><hr> One thing I try to look at is where on the rack the 2 ball is. Knowing the position routes of the rack balls on a break are important in guessing which area a ball will head. I end up breaking accordingly with different english positions to get the cueball uptable or downtable. Makes for at least the opportunity to get on the next ball. <hr /></blockquote>

This is interesting, from that post I understand that you use a break that pocket the one ball most of the time. As the 2 ball will be in different spot on the break, why not concentrate on potting the wing ball and setting up position for the one ball instead ?

UWPoolGod
01-06-2004, 10:26 AM
My problem...other than not making balls...is making the one ball and being hooked on the 2. Now it is possible that it is all due to luck of the rolls...but maybe where it was placed in the rack. But you are also right by saying to just make a wing...set up for the 1...and then play shape to the 2. Just depends on how I am breaking.

Iowashark
01-06-2004, 11:15 AM
Good topic, I have a different question...same topic. I break from the left rail about 3 inches behind headstring. Usually the 1 ends up in the same corner I'm shooting from, but I'd been having cb control problems so I weakened my break to control the cb better. Now the 1 gets to that same corner faster, (I don't know how since I'm hitting softer) and lots of times ends up going 3 rails and resting on the headrail. Why is the 1 getting there faster when I'm breaking slower?

RedHell
01-06-2004, 12:05 PM
I think what is happening is that you might have a slower cue ball but as your aim point is more precise you have a better power transfert intro the rack.

Let's say your full throtle break is 25mph, but with a lower accuracy you only transfert 70% of that power into the break, then you transfert about 17.5 mph into the rack.

Now you lower your speed to 20 mph but with a way better accuracy that transfert 95% of power into the rack. Then the slower break will tranfert 19mph. Hence the faster one ball....

Just my guess...

Scott Lee
01-07-2004, 01:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> In playing 9b I am finding out that even if balls go in, if the balls do not go where I want them to go, this makes a run out difficult. My cb usually ends up in the middle of the table, but the other balls are often in difficult positional places.

I have gotten pretty good at those long shots and shape is getting better but my break in terms of getting the balls to go where I want is a problem.

Any suggestions? Or is this just trial and error learning. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Laura <hr /></blockquote>

Laura...Quit worrying! When you have broken 10,000 racks, you can WORRY about not being able to control the 'balls' (truth is, almost nobody else can either...LMAO)! LOL Keep breaking like you are. If you want, move your CB around, and try for the same control with the CB.

Scott

phil in sofla
01-07-2004, 03:28 PM
You're right about Parica.

At a seniors' tour event at Mizerak's in Lake Park, I saw Parica consistently getting the 1 or 2 ball to end up close to the 9, where he had many chances at early combos on the 9, many of which he pocketed.

phil in sofla
01-07-2004, 03:41 PM
From extensive reading of instructional books and viewing of videos, I can say NOBODY I've read or viewed discusses how to make balls go where you want on the break. This makes me think it is either a VERY advanced subject, well beyond my current pay grade, or else an impossibility, or so remote a possibility that it isn't very worthwhile to concentrate on.

The MOST it seems one can try for, based on what I've seen out there, is to a) achieve relative center table position for the cue ball (to make any shot no longer than a half table shot, and hence easier), and b) to try to get shape on just the next ball, the 1 or 2, depending on whether the 1 is pocketing in the side corner.

On the other hand, I've had people explain how to try to make money balls that are directly behind the 1, using a given angle of breaking compared to the rack, and also, a corresponding amount of English on the break stroke. That is clearly possible, and I even won a match a while back by calling the pocket on the 8 on the break when it was a weight ball for me, and racked behind the 1 (cross side, of course).

Now, maybe this topic isn't discussed because of a general rule that using English on the break isn't a great idea.

One other thing that might be a factor is simply speed on the break. At least in 10 ball, it is said a moderate break rather than a harder break is better, because the harder break ends up making the balls rebound back together, and tieing them up more. Something similar is true in 8-ball breaking on the second ball, where a very hard break tends to put a bunch of balls on one side of the table on the rail, for a very ugly runout situation.

SPetty
01-07-2004, 03:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote phil in sofla:</font><hr> ...depending on whether the 1 is pocketing in the side corner.<hr /></blockquote>I've tried and tried, but I've never been able to pocket any ball in the side corner. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Billy
01-07-2004, 03:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote phil in sofla:</font><hr> ...depending on whether the 1 is pocketing in the side corner.<hr /></blockquote>I've tried and tried, but I've never been able to pocket any ball in the side corner. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

yes indeed ... that is a tough one /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dg-in-centralpa
01-07-2004, 03:57 PM
Lately my breaks have either been no ball made and the cb hidden with no shot on the one, or making a ball or two and getting hidden from my next shot.

DG - 9ball...no wonder I have gray hair, or is that from the wife?

snook
01-07-2004, 03:59 PM
I even won a match a while back by calling the pocket on the 8 on the break when it was a weight ball for me, and racked behind the 1 (cross side, of course).

i'm no pro, but you were able to read a rack like that and you were being spotted the 8? your real name isnt bucktooth is it?