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slammer
01-06-2004, 05:49 PM
who runs better leagues, the APA or the BCA? Whats the diff?

Rich R.
01-07-2004, 05:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slammer:</font><hr> who runs better leagues, the APA or the BCA? Whats the diff? <hr /></blockquote>
It all depends on your area, who is running the league and the people playing in the league.

In my area, the APA has the best leagues. In some other areas, the BCA leagues are best. There are major diferences in the way the leagues operate.

It is different strokes for different folks.

Why not try both, if they are available to you. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bluewolf
01-07-2004, 08:00 AM
I think both here are ok, but apa in our area is too bottom heavy. When you see a person who stays a two for two years and a three for two more with no indication of lack of talent, to me there is something wrong.

Not sure exactly what is going on but something....

Laura

=k=
01-07-2004, 08:48 AM
not part of your question but i enjoy tap leauges best.. guess i just hate slop.. plus here we enjoy a top leauge director..

SpiderMan
01-07-2004, 09:21 AM
Second that, it's the leadership that makes or breaks a league.

But, all other things being equal, I prefer the format of our local BCA league. We have five-man teams, and you play either two or three games with each opponent on the opposite team. The two teams keep three tables simultateously busy, and we finish in about 2 to 2-1/2 hours.

My local APA league also has five-man teams, but you only play a match against one particular individual on the other team. The rest of your time is spent sitting around waiting to play, because the matches are run serially on one table. So, despite a lesser number of total games played, the APA team match often takes 3 or even 4 hours. I suspect it's set up that way to keep the most people hanging around with nothing to do for the longest possible time, so they will buy more beer. Since TAP is basically an APA copycat, they probably have a similar format but I'm not sure.

SpiderMan

Fred Agnir
01-07-2004, 09:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slammer:</font><hr> who runs better leagues, the APA or the BCA? Whats the diff? <hr /></blockquote>The BCA doesn't run leagues. They sanction them. The individual league operators run their own leagues, using any format/rules they want.

Fred

01-07-2004, 10:33 AM

01-07-2004, 10:38 AM

Wally_in_Cincy
01-07-2004, 11:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr>
...I would rather wait APA style ...<hr /></blockquote>

I must respectfully disagree ww.

That's the one thing I really dislike about APA. If there is an extra practice table or two I can play to my heart's content, but usually there isn't.

SPetty
01-07-2004, 12:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Second that, it's the leadership that makes or breaks a league.

But, all other things being equal, I prefer the format of our local BCA league. We have five-man teams, and you play either two or three games with each opponent on the opposite team. The two teams keep three tables simultateously busy, and we finish in about 2 to 2-1/2 hours.

<hr /></blockquote>I, too, agree with that the leadership can break a league.

I, too, prefer the format of your local BCA league. My local BCA league plays a team of five against five, where each player plays the opponent one game. We play on two tables and it takes longer to finish!

(BTW - I'd like to also add my "Welcome back", Spiderman. You've been missed!)

Iowashark
01-07-2004, 12:58 PM
I think APA leagues on this forum are a lot like Meucci cues...those who like them, like them. Those who dislike them, absolutely despise them. I've played both BCA and APA. I only played APA for 1 year, and will never do it again. There are way too many things I dislike, and too many things my captain disliked about me (wasn't getting enough innings). I still play in my BCA league, but the BCA doesn't set up the format, it's set up by the local League Operator. I also play in a VNEA league which is basically an identical format to the BCA league with slightly different rules. But as I've said before...
To each his own.

Scott Lee
01-07-2004, 01:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr>

(BTW - I'd like to also add my "Welcome back", Spiderman. You've been missed!)
<hr /></blockquote>

Ditto, Marty! See you, and everyone else, next time I'm in the DFW area, this spring!

Scott

Sid_Vicious
01-07-2004, 02:55 PM
"My local BCA league plays a team of five against five, where each player plays the opponent one game"

That one game format per player means you could effecfively lose the break, get run over or make a couple of mistakes and basically pay league fees for the night without playing hardly at all. UPL and PPL offers multiple games per player, loser breaks, so you are assured to get SOME time on the cloth regardless of your luck and/or talent draw.

What do you pay for a night of only 5 games anyway????sid

houstondan
01-07-2004, 03:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> "My local BCA league plays a team of five against five, where each player plays the opponent one game"

That one game format per player means you could effecfively lose the break, get run over or make a couple of mistakes and basically pay league fees for the night without playing hardly at all. UPL and PPL offers multiple games per player, loser breaks, so you are assured to get SOME time on the cloth regardless of your luck and/or talent draw.

What do you pay for a night of only 5 games anyway????sid <hr /></blockquote>

that's the format we play. 10-bux/5 games/ten guys/2 hours. works pretty well and has for a long time. agree that the l.o. makes or breaks it.

mostly, i'm spoiled. we've got one of the best, toughest leagues in the country.

dan

Sid_Vicious
01-07-2004, 03:17 PM
Does the new players/teams, especially the Bs or C-rated ones usually stick around through multiple seasons with this situation? I've usually found that many curious newbies to league have been run off in short fashion with such a brutal format. Anyway that's my experience, it's great for the big dogs and stacked teams, but start up teams can not hardly get any kind of a beginning before it's over, and that ain't much fun in the scheme of things...sid

SPetty
01-07-2004, 03:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> That one game format per player means you could effectively lose the break, get run over or make a couple of mistakes and basically pay league fees for the night without playing hardly at all.<hr /></blockquote>Yep. Sucks.<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr>What do you pay for a night of only 5 games anyway????<hr /></blockquote>I hate to post this for fear of being heckled, but here goes... $15 to play those five games over 3-4 hours.

Iowashark
01-07-2004, 03:48 PM
My BCA league fees were just upped from 3 to 5 bucks for higher end of session payouts, this is for 5 games a night. My APA league was 7 bucks a night for anywhere between 3 and 6 games a night and usually about 3-4 hours. My VNEA is 3 bucks + table time(whether it be coin ops or hourly) for 8 games a night.

dg-in-centralpa
01-07-2004, 04:03 PM
The one league I play in is not sanctioned by APA or BCA. Someone about 30+ years ago set down rules and regs for a league and it is still in existance. We pay $1.00 per game that you shoot and the bar/club picks up the quarters for the table plus gives everybody one free drink and some put out food as well. We have no handicaps, no laying down of players, no playoffs, just straight man to man. First place team wins about $1000 and down the line from there.

DG - loves this league

woody_968
01-07-2004, 04:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> I hate to post this for fear of being heckled, but here goes... $15 to play those five games over 3-4 hours. <hr /></blockquote>

Well if $15 is good or bad would all depend on if the league pays back in cash and how the money was distributed. If they pay back a good amount of money in a structure that lets many players get money back then it may not be too bad.

woody_968
01-07-2004, 04:12 PM
One of the best leagues I ever played in was an in-house league. It was 8-ball handicaped, but was handicaped by points. The more balls your apponent had on the table at the end of the game the more points you got so it made you want to try to get out every chance you had instead of playing safe. Im not saying playing safe is bad, it was just a fun league. At the end of the year they split the money up by how ever many points were scored. Then each player got payed for all their points. Too bad a new owner took over the pool room and ran everyone off!!!

SpiderMan
01-07-2004, 04:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Second that, it's the leadership that makes or breaks a league.

But, all other things being equal, I prefer the format of our local BCA league. We have five-man teams, and you play either two or three games with each opponent on the opposite team. The two teams keep three tables simultateously busy, and we finish in about 2 to 2-1/2 hours.

My local APA league also has five-man teams, but you only play a match against one particular individual on the other team. The rest of your time is spent sitting around waiting to play, because the matches are run serially on one table. So, despite a lesser number of total games played, the APA team match often takes 3 or even 4 hours. I suspect it's set up that way to keep the most people hanging around with nothing to do for the longest possible time, so they will buy more beer. Since TAP is basically an APA copycat, they probably have a similar format but I'm not sure.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

I might add here that the APA allows you to meet head on with one opponent. I prefer this rather than playing one game against the next opponent each time, whomever that may be. I would rather wait APA style rather than this hap-hazard stuff. For that kind of entertainment, you can just go to a bar and putt your quarters in the slot. <hr /></blockquote>

It's not just APA's waiting that gets to me, though that's a big part of it. I also prefer our BCA format because I get to play a decisive two-out-of-three match against every player on the other team, rather than just against one opponent who is often chosen (in APA) not to be a great matchup but merely to "sacrifice" a lower player. APA sometimes has me sitting around a smoky bar for four hours, just so I can spend thirty minutes frustrating a beginner. The main reason I play APA is to share a team with my girlfriend and other acquaintances who wouldn't be able to hang in a non-handicapped format. For that cameraderie, it's a good thing, and we have a sponsor who pays our weekly dues so I can't gripe about the expense. But it's just not good pool most of the time.

Here's how bad it's gotten ..... I look forward to Karaoke as a diversion on APA nights!

SpiderMan

woody_968
01-07-2004, 04:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>

Here's how bad it's gotten ..... I look forward to Karaoke as a diversion on APA nights!

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

OMG!!! I never new it could come to that!!!

bluewolf
01-07-2004, 06:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr>

Bottom heavy usually means there are lots of women. So if you are a guy, this may be good, no matter how the league is run /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

It also means that in many of these cases, these women are not being helped to improve their game so that they can advance. While some are content beings twos and just want to do it for fun, I have talked to quite a few frustrated two women who wanted to get better but noone was helping them and some who were constantly being put against sl6,5 and so forth and feeling frustrated because they were losing all of the time. These women got to play against other sl2-3 a couple of matches, then the other matches were against higher players, which percentage wize keeps them as twos. IMO, if sl2-3 women were matched together on a more regular basis, then they for the most part would advance.

It seems that once a woman becomes an sl4, this does not occur nearly as much.

The LO is not keeping the women a two but many captains want them to stay a two for at least the whole session due to the 23 point rule. Also if the twos and threes advance then they have to find new women. It just seems easier for some of these captains to keep their twos a two. A few determined ones overcome this hurdle and find ways to get better, but in our league, so many stay two.

While some captains do try to help the twos get better, at least here, 2/3 of them do not and openly hope that they will not become a 3 or a 3 a 4.

I do not see sandbagging in these women, what I see is boocoos of 'handicap management',especially in the twos.

Laura

houstondan
01-07-2004, 08:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Does the new players/teams, especially the Bs or C-rated ones usually stick around through multiple seasons with this situation? ..sid <hr /></blockquote>

although it is pretty darwinian, there is a broad mix of skill. there always seems to be a couple of teams from "our lady of the blind and infirm" but they have fun and, as they develop, they kind of team-hop up the ladder. we do see a lot of red-hot bar bangers who come for a half a season and then kind of wander off. 14 teams, average 8 players each, there's room for everyone.

dan

01-08-2004, 11:42 AM

SpiderMan
01-08-2004, 04:24 PM
Owwwoowww! Maybe you and the husky should make a duet of "Little Red Riding Hood". Three things I've learned about singing (and I just started this APA season): (1) They can't fire you, and you'll never know if the applause is just because you're finished, (2) if you stick to C&amp;W all you have to do is stay in key and sound sad, and (3) there will always be that one drunk who gets lost, starts over three times, and finally just dances to the music, making you look much better by comparison /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SpiderMan