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bigshooter
01-13-2004, 10:11 PM
O.K. So I'm over at the Billiard Palace on Sunday afternoon (after church of course) I couldn't play in the tourney cause its a 6 or under tourney so I'm over on the nine footers practicing and the losers from the tourney start filtering over as they get knocked out (tourneys on the 8 footers) and two young men start playing beside me one is probably pushing 20 years old the other quite a bit younger, both decent shots.
So I watch the younger one miss every single shot where the C.B. is on or near the rail because he shoots jacked up and too hard, so eventually I call him over to my table and I told him I noticed that he was missing that particular shot and offered to help him.
I showed him how to make a long shot with the C.B. stuck on the rail the proper way and the kid gets pissed off and tells me I have no right to criticize his playing.
Is this what I get for trying to help?
And a few nights before that I was walking over to the bathroom and glanced at a group of people sitting in the corner on my way and some loud mouthed kid says real loud to his girlfriend "was that old guy looking at you, I ought to kick his a**"
I ignored him and chalked it up to testosterone.
Are most young people retarded now or just the ones that hang out in pool halls?

logixrat
01-13-2004, 10:39 PM
Woah...what are the chances of finding a local on these boards!?!? I too am from around this area, and have played several games over at BP. In general I find more attitude flying around that place than some of the other ones. But I don't think it's isolated to poolhall kids, it's just kids in general. Seems they are raised with less and less respect each and every passing day.

Of course, maybe the kid was just disappointed about getting knocked out and extra sensitive about his play style. Then you, an unknown person, comes along to show him the "correct" way to do it. It just probably didn't mix well, especially if he was amongst friends.

As far as your other problem about checking out the girl...was she hot!?! If ya gonna look, ya can't get caught...hehe.

Lucky for me I have intimidation in my favor, so not many punks give me crap. Of course, if they really knew me, they would know I wouldn't hurt a fly unless provoked. But no need to go and blow my cover...hehe.

bigshooter
01-13-2004, 10:50 PM
Yeah, I'm not trying to pick on the kids, I have an eight year old boy of my own and it's definately not isolated to pool halls, We went out the Taco Bueno the other night for some fine dining and the teenage boy in the next booth was the most disrepectful kid I think I've ever heard, He was with a young girl and talked to her like they we're making a porn video or something, I don't even know how to describe it.
The kid at the BP was probably upset getting knocked out, maybe I'll see him again and hustle him out of his cue. LOL
As far as checking out the chicks, the truth is there was a thick smoky haze between us and them and I was just trying to see if it was someone I knew or not and it took me a few seconds for my eyes to adjust, I don't even know what she looked like!
If I'm gonna get the beat down at least I should know what she looks like!

smoakyspeedster
01-13-2004, 10:54 PM
That's a shame that the kid has left you with that impression of us young folk ( as i am only 18). I know that when my friends and i go to the local pool halls, or anywhere for that matter, we always tried to present ourselves as having decent manners, and respect for our elders. That guy was probaly embarassed to be helped in front of his friends, and I would hope that you wouldn't think less of all younger people.

Popcorn
01-13-2004, 10:54 PM
With all due respect, who were you doing it for, him or you? We all run into people all the time who just like to hear themselves talk. He since he did not seek your advice, offering it could be perceived as criticism. I personally like to mind my own business, it has been a pretty good policy over the years.

bigshooter
01-13-2004, 11:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote smoakyspeedster:</font><hr> That's a shame that the kid has left you with that impression of us young folk ( as i am only 18). I know that when my friends and i go to the local pool halls, or anywhere for that matter, we always tried to present ourselves as having decent manners, and respect for our elders. That guy was probaly embarassed to be helped in front of his friends, and I would hope that you wouldn't think less of all younger people. <hr /></blockquote>
No I am just kidding, I love young people that is why I was trying to help him, it takes a lot more than one silly incident to scare me away.
We have all been young once (some of us twice) and I've done my share of disrepecting I'm sure, its just convenient to forget our own trespassings.
I'm sure I just approached the young man at a bad time, there was a group of young people on the other side of me that were very polite and had great etiquette so I should give credit where credit is due.
Blessings.

bigshooter
01-13-2004, 11:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> With all due respect, who were you doing it for, him or you? We all run into people all the time who just like to hear themselves talk. He since he did not seek your advice, offering it could be perceived as criticism. I personally like to mind my own business, it has been a pretty good policy over the years. <hr /></blockquote>

No I sincerely just wanted to help him but the common thread in all of the posts seems to be that I should have approached him at a different time or not at all.
I agree.

Popcorn
01-13-2004, 11:23 PM
I think I have just trained myself to not offer advice although sometimes you would like to. I just see how it is taken when others do it, so I never do. I always get along with kids because I never talk down to them and always treat them with respect. What is funny though is, once you reach a certain age, everyone "you" need advice from is younger then you. So instead of them being the dumb kid, I become the dumb old man, especially when it comes to things like computers and such.

Cueless Joey
01-14-2004, 12:18 AM
You can always ask " Can I show you how to make that shot?"
If he refuses, it's his loss.

cheesemouse
01-14-2004, 07:17 AM
I don't mean to put words in anybodys mouth but over the years I have learned that, in general, unsolicited advice is very rarely welcomed. It is hard too resist sometimes when you see someone doing things so obviously wrong but for me the path of least resistance is silence....as someone has said "when the student is ready a teacher will appear"...JAT

Kato
01-14-2004, 08:03 AM
I find this behavior interesting. Here's what I see where I live. The general attitude of the kids around here is what you'd expect to find. Brass, arrogant, ect. Bunch of gangster wanna be's/Eminem's. That being said, the kids where I hang out are respectful to the veteran's and always receptive to learn.

That being said, if they don't ask I don't give. I do tend to strike up conversations and befriend them. After they feel a little more comfortable with you they'll start asking questions.

Kato

Wally_in_Cincy
01-14-2004, 08:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> You can always ask " Can I show you how to make that shot?"
If he refuses, it's his loss.
<hr /></blockquote>

If the kid had been by himself he may have welcomed the help. With his friends watching he took it as an insult. Lot of peer pressure at that age.

Fred Agnir
01-14-2004, 08:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigshooter:</font><hr> So I watch the younger one miss every single shot where the C.B. is on or near the rail because he shoots jacked up and too hard, so eventually I call him over to my table and I told him I noticed that he was missing that particular shot and offered to help him.
I showed him how to make a long shot with the C.B. stuck on the rail the proper way and the kid gets pissed off and tells me I have no right to criticize his playing.
Is this what I get for trying to help?<hr /></blockquote>
Yes, this is what you get for trying to help. Since he wasn't asking for any help, you seemed to him to be insulting his game. That's just the way it is.

The over-desire to help someone, even if they didn't ask for it has some psychological name to it: Helper Syndrome. It's fine when someone is looking for the help. It can be met with roughness if they aren't.

Fred &lt;~~~ talking from unfortunately the same experience

Sid_Vicious
01-14-2004, 08:20 AM
"After they feel a little more comfortable with you they'll start asking questions."

You know what!? If somebody is narrow minded enough to cast off a gift of knowledge, then I say F'em! There are too many truly deserving players who'd be thrilled for a tidbit of veteren knowledge. I don't want them to come around asking me questions after showing their a$$ like that when I offered to help. You just lost your good graces with me kid...sid

Steve Lipsky
01-14-2004, 08:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigshooter:</font><hr> Are most young people retarded now or just the ones that hang out in pool halls? <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Bigshooter. Without any hint of sarcasm, I can honestly say that most young people are now indeed retarded.

- Steve

P.S. When I was about 16 and playing at a local room with my friends, some guy called me over and told me that I had talent but I shot the ball way too damned hard. He told me to treat the cueball "like an egg". I managed to thank him, and my friends managed to be impressed. We all seemed to resist the urge to curse the man out (who does this??). I will never forget the memory.

Iowashark
01-14-2004, 09:19 AM
Hey it's not all younger people, I was in the same situation last night, except reversed. I was at a bar playing some older guy for 5 bucks a rack, I probably seemed like a young punk to him. He obviously is used to shooting on really fast 7 foot tables. The table we were playing was a somewhat slow 8 footer. Lots of his shots were falling short or his leaves would fall short and hook himself. Well about 40 dollars into it I offered him some advice about the table playing a little slow and playing a bit more aggressive. He called me a conceited young pri$* and stormed off after hitting his cue against the table hard enough to break the last 2 inches off (it was a house cue). I think this behavior can be found in just about anyone when they are down on their game a bit. Jm2c

UWPoolGod
01-14-2004, 10:14 AM
He told me to treat the cueball "like an egg". I managed to thank him, and my friends managed to be impressed. We all seemed to resist the urge to curse the man out (who does this??). &lt;---Steve L

Yeah I was playing on an unused table at the 8ball tourney on Sunday night against another guy in the tourney before the tourney started and the first round. Probably 15 games+. I beat him 13. Now I noticed that when he missed he was jumping up on his shots. I let him go on with it until it came for the last rack. When he did it again the last rack I told him to stay down on his shots (he was jumping up) and I ran the rack and went over to watch the tourney. He made it though the tourney and had to play me in the losers bracket (I beat him) and he got 3rd. Before we played the match he thanked me for telling him to stay down because he has been missing dumb shots for weeks and this was his best finish in the tourney to date (because he stopped missing those). I said your welcome and we started up.

I am only 25 and wonder if the same works in reverse. If I was to watch an older player who has been playing the same speed for 30 years and offered advice, if he would accept criticism from someone half his age? Depends on the person, but I have had this happen. They scoff at the idea I know more about pool than them, and when I beat them they probably chalk it up to lucky kids. If I could learn something from a Junior Nationals player I would in a heartbeat. Just leads to more knowledge of shots/thinking down the road.

Iowashark
01-14-2004, 10:39 AM
I think that was the case with the guy I played last night. I'm 24 but I look young for my age, and I had my wife with me who's 2 years older than me but doesn't look a day over 19. He probably thought I was a lucky kid. Keep in mind this was in an unfamiliar bar, and this guy had a good stroke probably used to playing in bars to beat bangers out of a few bucks. I originally went in there only to get a bite to eat with the wife, didn't even know they had a pool table. Put a quarter up while waiting for the food and the guy at the table let me know it was a 'money' table. I don't think 5 bucks a rack qualifies as a 'money' table, but this was a bar/resteraunt, not a pool hall.

Popcorn
01-14-2004, 11:12 AM
Why would you be mad at someone just because they ignored your unsolicited advice, that is no reason to hate them for life. They have that right, they may have no interest in the game at all and just want to come in and bang the balls around with their friends. I like to play billiards but I won't play with one of those guys that after a shot spends two minutes telling me why I should have played the shot different. This is not a lesson, I just want to play, if I am looking around at the balls before I shoot it does not mean I don't know a shot, I want to be allowed to think about it. Some guys just come over and begin telling you what they think you should do. I hate that, besides in billiards many of the shots can be subjective. It is not that I don't want to learn, but I don't want to be doing this when I am playing a game. Some of these guys are psychotic or something. They can't even watch a game without freaking out if you don't play the shots the way they would.

Jay
01-14-2004, 11:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigshooter:</font><hr> O.K. So I'm over at the Billiard Palace on Sunday afternoon (after church of course) I couldn't play in the tourney cause its a 6 or under tourney so I'm over on the nine footers practicing and the losers from the tourney start filtering over as they get knocked out (tourneys on the 8 footers) and two young men start playing beside me one is probably pushing 20 years old the other quite a bit younger, both decent shots.
So I watch the younger one miss every single shot where the C.B. is on or near the rail because he shoots jacked up and too hard, so eventually I call him over to my table and I told him I noticed that he was missing that particular shot and offered to help him.
I showed him how to make a long shot with the C.B. stuck on the rail the proper way and the kid gets pissed off and tells me I have no right to criticize his playing.
Is this what I get for trying to help?
And a few nights before that I was walking over to the bathroom and glanced at a group of people sitting in the corner on my way and some loud mouthed kid says real loud to his girlfriend "was that old guy looking at you, I ought to kick his a**"
I ignored him and chalked it up to testosterone.
Are most young people retarded now or just the ones that hang out in pool halls? <hr /></blockquote>

Not all of us young people are retarded or stupid. Im only 20 and I openly welcome advice and teachings from the older and more experienced players. If you ask me most of the time it is the older players that wont help out us younger players. Many a times I have asked for advice and many a times I get the cold shoulder. I play in local 9 ball league tournaments and I play against some high level players and I am the youngest out of all of them. They always try to teach me and give me advice and I always welcome it. So not all us youths are retarded, its just sometimes we are just misunderstood. You all know what it was like to be young.

tateuts
01-14-2004, 11:40 AM
My experience has been that pool rooms truly transcend the boundries of age and gender. I wouldn't let a few incidents like this bother you.

The young people in our room have been completely different. They've been friendly and respectful to us middle-age guys. They respect our games too.

I think in a pool room it helps if you treat everyone as equals regardless of age or gender.

Chris

bigshooter
01-14-2004, 11:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jay:</font><hr> <hr /></blockquote>

Not all of us young people are retarded or stupid. Im only 20 and I openly welcome advice and teachings from the older and more experienced players. If you ask me most of the time it is the older players that wont help out us younger players. Many a times I have asked for advice and many a times I get the cold shoulder. I play in local 9 ball league tournaments and I play against some high level players and I am the youngest out of all of them. They always try to teach me and give me advice and I always welcome it. So not all us youths are retarded, its just sometimes we are just misunderstood. You all know what it was like to be young. <hr /></blockquote>

I apologize for using the word retarded, I was just venting and I should not have lumped all young people in together as I said in an earlier response I have run across a lot of well mannered young people in and out of the pool hall.
You bring up a good point, I have seen some veteran players that wouldn't dream of giving someone advice even if asked to, sort of a your not worthy attitude.

Sid_Vicious
01-14-2004, 12:19 PM
"I noticed that he was missing that particular shot and offered to help him."

"I showed him how to make a long shot with the C.B. stuck on the rail the proper way and the kid gets pissed off"

Gettin' pissed off after he passed on just saying "No I don't need help" when asked...F'em! I know lots of young players locally who greatly appreciate advice, so if I totally have an attitude against one butt head, I feel it's ok...sid

Tom_In_Cincy
01-14-2004, 12:54 PM
There are many younger players that 'appreciate', 'show good manners', 'show respect' and 'are very thankful' for any help they get improving their game.

These players get my attention all the time. I don't concern myself with the negatives, when there are so many positives.

MikeM
01-14-2004, 12:59 PM
Steve and Big,

This is probably the best way to offer unsolicited advice. Start with a compliment. Pump him up a little and then say you could be even better if......

That's the way I try to approach it although it doesn't always work either.

Mike

RedHell
01-14-2004, 01:18 PM
Are they all retarded ? No, but for some reason they sure seem less respectfull....

I'm not that old, 33, but it sure seems in my years there was certain things we would apologies for doing. As an example, the other day, I was playing with my wife. As she walks up to break, there was a kid (18 to 20) who was racking. She stood aside and waited for him to finnish before leaning down to take her break shot.

The kid put his rack down, turned around stepping on her foot and bang right into her ribs as he walked by. Guess what, no sorry, no apologies, nothing. He just kept walking like nothing happend.

Are they all like this, no, but it's seems there is more then there use to be.

One thing I noticed, kids that have been properly introduce to the game and its etiquette are a lot more respectfull of their surounding than the once a month ball banger.

I believe that, just like in golf, the etiquette that teaches a player to shut up while the opponent is shooting, to walk out of a shot line, to congratulate nice shots, also help them learn personal respect.

The room I play in has changed look over the last few years and the clientele has also changed. We see a lot more of groups of 6 or 8 kids coming in for one table and just take every single square foot of shooting space around their table. They are constantly in your way and can't figure out that they should be standing away from other tables while not shooting.

With less and less sports/activities being practiced by our youth and more time spent online or on the game box, a certain public behaviour lesson is missing from them.

All in all, they're not bad kids, they are just innocent, until they get introduce to respect.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents....

Perk
01-14-2004, 01:20 PM
Happened to me the other league night. 3 members of the team are "A" players. We routinely talk about thought processes (i.e. different ways to runout), rarely will we try to teach anything on league night.

Well, I was playing my game, and a shot come up with the Cueball froze to the object ball (8ball). It was aimed to miss the side pocket to the left. Well due to the layout of the table I chose to hit it in the "left" direction more as a defense shot but also tried to make it. I missed obviously even more left. I know that if I would have hit it right, it would have pushed the OB to the right and made it, but it still would have been hard, and would have sold out the game.

Well anyways, my teamates went off about the process of throw etc, and why I should hit it to the right. I got irritated with them, and after the guy immediately missed his shot I was getting ready to make the 8ball and they were still arguing about it. I finally said irritated: "I dont think you need to worry about my knowledge of that particular shot".

Helping someone in life can be a challenging thing in most ways, and it comes up in pool alot. I have taken the road to only help if its asked, but never in a match.

Kato
01-14-2004, 02:54 PM
I'm only 33 and I don't remember being young. I envy you.

Kato

RedHell
01-14-2004, 03:02 PM
Kato, I don't wanna know what kind of youth you had if you can't remember what happend !!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SPetty
01-14-2004, 03:38 PM
I'm responding to no one in particular. I'm responding to the concept of not helping unless asked.

As one who needs help, there is no way to know whether you who can help will be bothered, honored or irritated if I happen to ask you something. Also, I might not know the right thing to ask. Hmmm... Hey, would you please tell me if I'm doing something wrong? That seems a little vague...

Consequently, I rarely ask for help.

So if those who can help rarely offer it and those who need help rarely ask for it - well, not a happy picture.

So, I guess I'm asking on behalf of all who need help, please don't stop offering help. I mean that mostly for the folks on this board, not the other kind who's probably had a little too much to drink anyway and can't explain what they're trying to show and doesn't know half of what I already know from the people on this board anyway.

Kato
01-14-2004, 03:42 PM
That's why I make friends. With friends that need help you can approach them versus strangers. I will never withdrawl my help any more than I will ever stop asking for it.

Kato

snook
01-14-2004, 03:47 PM
i'm 17 and i love when people offer help, unfortunetly NOBODY ever has! it hurts me, i know i do things wrong and nobody cares to show me what(which is why i like scott so much) i try to help my friends though when they play and they seem to appreciate it, i just ask them simply if they would like to be shown how to do a certain shot, or stance. and several of my friends have asked me if i will help them. i seem to see more problems with kids who smoke, drugs, and whatnot. not with your average kid.

JimS
01-14-2004, 06:15 PM
Ask. If you are having problems with your game go up to a good shooter that you've noticed seems to be a decent person and ask for help.

Never offer unsolicited advice. You can ask the person if they'd mind if you told them something that you've noticed that might help their game but even that is pushing the envelope.

I'd be honored if a young guy came up to me and asked....course...come to think of it...that won't be happening. I'm not a good shooter and I'm an old fart and a pri#&amp; so I doubt they'll be asking anytime soon. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Keith Talent
01-14-2004, 06:31 PM
I've always been glad to get a little useful advice from a better player, when I was 18 or now ... usually it sticks in the mind because I know it's not easy to offer it without being asked. Hope people don't give up because of a few nitwits.

Myself, I don't generally offer, though maybe to a banger in a bar. Last time I did that, I showed a woman how to hit a crossover bank (which she apparently had never seen played) on the 8 ... she was in shock when she made it.

Ralph S.
01-14-2004, 08:01 PM
Sure is funny the way some people act. I agree that not all kids or younger people today are obnoxious and rude, although many are. I think much of it has to do with the current society. Many of us grew up in a different era. I certainly know that if I treated people in public or private for that matter, in a rude fashion, I wouldnt have been able to sit for a month of Sundays.

I personally feel that much of the bad behaviour stems from the violence and poor attitude that is so readily accepted in today's society.

I have been thanked and verbally bashed for offering a friendly tip or suggestion. Therefore,I just don't do it anymore unless asked. Saves headaches and misunderstandings.

gnef
01-14-2004, 10:53 PM
Sorry about your bad experience with us younger people... (i'm 19), but hey, if anyone is in the downtown austin area, i'd sure be willing to get help from anyone. =) (btw, what did you tell that guy about shooting from the rail?)

-Mel