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bigshooter
01-17-2004, 02:02 PM
I've never played with one how do they hit?
Is there an advantage to an ivory joint other than looks?

I've always considered ivory as somewhat outdated other than for inlays but I have no proof of that, its just something I've always thought but I still see a lot of new customs with ivory joints.

dooziexx
01-17-2004, 03:17 PM
I have 2 MIke Bender cues that have ivory joints on them. They actually play a little softer than his cues that have phenolic joints. But overall they still play great and they look good too.

tateuts
01-17-2004, 06:11 PM
The cues I have with ivory joints all have a solid, firm hit. Ivory joints are beautiful. The bad thing about ivory is that it's brittle, so it's easy to damage. I suggest trying an ivory or staghorn jointed cue - I think they're the best.

Chris

Popcorn
01-18-2004, 04:19 AM
You know, a lot of people say that, but if the right piece of ivory is selected, it is a very strong and durable material. I remember reading something years ago, about how the design for the blade of the Damascus sword was inspired by studying ivory.

tateuts
01-18-2004, 03:02 PM
Interesting about picking out good ivory. I would imagine that the underlying wood has to be properly seasoned as well.

I was informed that ivory was brittle by a well known cue maker. He used ivory a lot and was concerned about cues being returned later for repairs. He tended toward staghorn instead of ivory. Personally, the only ivory I've had a problem with is in ferrules and in the Hoppe-style butt rings. It's mostly been hairline cracks in older cues. My guess it's due to wood expansion and contraction. I've not had a problem with ivory or staghorn joints at all. Nonetheless, I prefer and play with ivory ferrules.

Chris

Popcorn
01-18-2004, 04:25 PM
I have seen cuemakers that sleeve the ivory over a thin piece of phenolic tube. I guess that is in case the wood under expands it will lessen the chance of splitting. I have also seen ivory joints that were not sleeved hardly at all maybe a 1/4 of an inch with the rest being a solid slug. There are a lot of old cues around with ivory ferrules and joints that have stood the test of time and ware.

Cueless Joey
01-18-2004, 05:22 PM
Sleeving ivory looks lame to me.
Why bother having ivory then.
That's reserved for the tap and die cuemakers imo. lol
I used to have one that was capped. I used to break with it.

ted harris
01-18-2004, 06:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Sleeving ivory looks lame to me.
Why bother having ivory then.
That's reserved for the tap and die cuemakers imo. lol
<hr /></blockquote>
How about for looks! How about appraisal value! Same amount of ivory to start...much more work...more consistency...more strength...more reliability = lame...NOT!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Cueless Joey
01-18-2004, 08:08 PM
Sorry Ted.
I like mine capped and threaded.
I wouldn't pay for ivory joint for the looks of it.
Buckhorn looks as good and is more durable.

ted harris
01-18-2004, 09:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Sorry Ted.
I like mine capped and threaded.
I wouldn't pay for ivory joint for the looks of it.
<hr /></blockquote>
To each his own. No problem, if you don't mind using antiquated 1970's technology to build cues in 2004...or if you don't mind not having wood all the way from the tip to the rubber bumper! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Cueless Joey
01-18-2004, 09:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ted harris:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Sorry Ted.
I like mine capped and threaded.
I wouldn't pay for ivory joint for the looks of it.
<hr /></blockquote>
To each his own. No problem, if you don't mind using antiquated 1970's technology to build cues in 2004...or if you don't mind not having wood all the way from the tip to the rubber bumper! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Since I have a graphite cue with Cuetec shaft and Sumo tip, I wouldn't know. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

justbrake
01-20-2004, 12:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Interesting about picking out good ivory. I would imagine that the underlying wood has to be properly seasoned as well.

I was informed that ivory was brittle by a well known cue maker. He used ivory a lot and was concerned about cues being returned later for repairs. He tended toward staghorn instead of ivory. Personally, the only ivory I've had a problem with is in ferrules and in the Hoppe-style butt rings. It's mostly been hairline cracks in older cues. My guess it's due to wood expansion and contraction. I've not had a problem with ivory or staghorn joints at all. Nonetheless, I prefer and play with ivory ferrules.

Chris

<hr /></blockquote>

whats staghorn

tateuts
01-20-2004, 10:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote justbrake:</font><hr>
<hr /></blockquote>

whats staghorn <hr /></blockquote>


The same as "buckhorn" - they are antelope horn, or as we call the "antlers".

Chris

Big_Jon
01-20-2004, 06:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ted harris:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Sleeving ivory looks lame to me.
Why bother having ivory then.
That's reserved for the tap and die cuemakers imo. lol
<hr /></blockquote>
How about for looks! How about appraisal value! Same amount of ivory to start...much more work...more consistency...more strength...more reliability = lame...NOT!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif <hr /></blockquote>

More strength??? how can a piece of ivory that is only around 0.050" thick (based on a joint of 0.850" and I.D. of ivory being 0.750") be stronger than a piece of ivory that is around 0.1125" thick, with a solid cap???

Thanks

Jon

And what's wrong with 1970's style of cuemaking??? if it ain't broke... don't fix it... IMHO, sliding phenolic over maple, then sliding ivory or S.Steel over that would result in a weaker over all joint...

Foxtrott
01-20-2004, 07:39 PM
Patena is the Key . Ivory wont make you shoot better .But as a value in a cue it seems to hold better equity .What you need to look for is a very good Patena in the ivory.

ted harris
01-20-2004, 08:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Big_Jon:</font><hr> More strength??? how can a piece of ivory that is only around 0.050" thick (based on a joint of 0.850" and I.D. of ivory being 0.750") be stronger than a piece of ivory that is around 0.1125" thick, with a solid cap???

Thanks

Jon

And what's wrong with 1970's style of cuemaking??? if it ain't broke... don't fix it... IMHO, sliding phenolic over maple, then sliding ivory or S.Steel over that would result in a weaker over all joint...<hr /></blockquote>
Is phenolic stronger than ivory? It is the whole joint assembly that is stronger. With the ivory sleeved over the phenolic, lots of stress during impact is relieved from the ivory.
There is a big difference in 1970 "style" and "technology," which is the term I used in my post.

SUPERSTAR
01-21-2004, 01:03 AM
Well lets see now. I have myself a custom BLACK BOAR that Tony made for me a few years ago. It has Ivory sleeved over stainless steel at the joint. It's as pretty as they come. Not to mention it hits like a DREAM! Anyone who knows TONY can tell you. He's like a MAD SCIENTIST when it comes to his stuff. His cues are the STRONGEST cues made IMO.
I would think that when it comes to the strength of the assembly whether it be ivory, phenolic, maple, steel or whatever. A lot of that is a result of WHO is putting it all together.
I'm sure i could try and build a cue, but if i had no clue what i was doing or tried to save money by using poor quality materials. It might fall apart screwing it together.
Find yourself someone who is a freak about the quality of their product, and your not gonna have ivory splitting all over the place. Find someone who is looking to make something pretty but could care less about it's integrity and your gonna be pissed when a chunk of something goes flying off of it.
Superstar

ted harris
01-21-2004, 01:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SUPERSTAR:</font><hr>I'm sure i could try and build a cue, but if i had no clue what i was doing or tried to save money by using poor quality materials. It might fall apart screwing it together.
Find yourself someone who is a freak about the quality of their product, and your not gonna have ivory splitting all over the place. Find someone who is looking to make something pretty but could care less about it's integrity and your gonna be pissed when a chunk of something goes flying off of it.
Superstar <hr /></blockquote>
Would you please clarify as to whether you are knocking my materials, methods, theory and skills, or if you are agreeing with it?

Cueless Joey
01-21-2004, 01:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SUPERSTAR:</font><hr> Well lets see now. I have myself a custom BLACK BOAR that Tony made for me a few years ago. It has Ivory sleeved over stainless steel at the joint. It's as pretty as they come. Not to mention it hits like a DREAM! Anyone who knows TONY can tell you. He's like a MAD SCIENTIST when it comes to his stuff. His cues are the STRONGEST cues made IMO.
I would think that when it comes to the strength of the assembly whether it be ivory, phenolic, maple, steel or whatever. A lot of that is a result of WHO is putting it all together.
I'm sure i could try and build a cue, but if i had no clue what i was doing or tried to save money by using poor quality materials. It might fall apart screwing it together.
Find yourself someone who is a freak about the quality of their product, and your not gonna have ivory splitting all over the place. Find someone who is looking to make something pretty but could care less about it's integrity and your gonna be pissed when a chunk of something goes flying off of it.
Superstar <hr /></blockquote>
That, I don't understand at all. So, the ivory is threaded to the stainless steel collar?
If that's the case, I wouldn think if the ivory contracts ( they do expand and contract) it might break b/c the ss collar is too hard.
My mentor is also a freak. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif He REFUSES to use ivory collars, ferrules or inlays. He's fanatical about his buckhorn collar and Ivor-X ferrules.
You're right though. Cuemakers who are fanatical about quality are the best.

SUPERSTAR
01-21-2004, 01:32 AM
Not knocking you at all Ted. I was just throwing in my 2 cents on the whole ivory sleeve integrity thing. I have the utmost respect for your cues and your opinions when it comes to woodworking and cuemaking. I on the other hand have NO clue about woodworking and cues. ACTUALLY....all i know is from watching Tony work, and comparing his stuff to other stuff i come across. You've actually seen my cue. Couple of years ago at BREAKTIME during the Joss. It was you ANNIGONI, PUTNAM, and myself talking about cues cause SHAWN was asking pointers about cuemaking and reflecting on his experience. Then we got onto the topic of TONY vs. OTHER cuemakers.....technology and all that stuff.
If you remember who i am.....SSSSHHHHH

SUPERSTAR

Foxtrott
01-21-2004, 01:37 AM
Ive seen Teds work and I cannot knock it at all . Anyone who does is a fool . I had a cue collection walk off (cues I used) and I contacted Ted about making me a cue in the manner of one of my cues that walked.He told me no problem as long as his name was on it and I redaly agreed.
Ted knows the playability of a cue . I will say my only concern in cues is for shooting and Ivory to me is just another show piece .I place my money in playability not show .

ted harris
01-21-2004, 01:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr>That, I don't understand at all. So, the ivory is threaded to the stainless steel collar?
If that's the case, I wouldn think if the ivory contracts ( they do expand and contract) it might break b/c the ss collar is too hard.
You're right though. Cuemakers who are fanatical about quality are the best. <hr /></blockquote>
No, the ivory is sleeved over the steel, but not the same way as mine. The joint on a Black Boar has a stainless facing on both sides of the ivory and looks to be about an eighth of an inch in length on each side. Ivory is going to expand and contract over any material, dependant on humidity and temperature. Whether it cracks or not is largely dependant on the tolerance between the ivory and said material and the glue used to secure it to that material. IMHO, flexible glues are preferred when installing ivory.

ted harris
01-21-2004, 01:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SUPERSTAR:</font><hr> Not knocking you at all Ted. I was just throwing in my 2 cents on the whole ivory sleeve integrity thing. I have the utmost respect for your cues and your opinions when it comes to woodworking and cuemaking. I on the other hand have NO clue about woodworking and cues. ACTUALLY....all i know is from watching Tony work, and comparing his stuff to other stuff i come across. You've actually seen my cue. Couple of years ago at BREAKTIME during the Joss. It was you ANNIGONI, PUTNAM, and myself talking about cues cause SHAWN was asking pointers about cuemaking and reflecting on his experience. Then we got onto the topic of TONY vs. OTHER cuemakers.....technology and all that stuff.
If you remember who i am.....SSSSHHHHH

SUPERSTAR<hr /></blockquote>
I quite enjoy many of the ideas I have discussed with Tony and seen in his shop, and have come to many of the same conclusions although I am not a student of theory. Much of it is just common sense to me. Of course, there is much that I have not even attempted yet, but...in time it will happen. I can only hope that my cues offer a mix of the best things I have seen elsewhere, and the best things I have implemented on my own. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BLACKHEART
01-21-2004, 11:01 AM
The joint collars only job, is to keep the wood at the joint from splitting. Other than that it's just using prettier material that makes them different. Most Qs with a break in the joint area, come as you break the balls. If you lean on your Q on the follow through, the shaft will bend &amp; since the joint is stiffened via the joint screw &amp; collar, the weakest point is generally just behind the end of the screw about 2-3 inches from the end of the forearm. The joint does not make the overall Q "STRONGER". There are only 2 basic methods of Q construction. The FULL SPLICE made like a bar Q &amp; the 1/2 SPLICE where the butt half is made in 2 pieces &amp; joined together. A 3rd option is to use a single piece of wood for the whole butt. In my opinion the word "STRONGER" can only be used when referring to a full spliced butted Q...JER

bluewolf
01-21-2004, 11:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> The cues I have with ivory joints all have a solid, firm hit. Ivory joints are beautiful. The bad thing about ivory is that it's brittle, so it's easy to damage. I suggest trying an ivory or staghorn jointed cue - I think they're the best.

Chris

<hr /></blockquote>

When I ordered my scruggs, Tim would have put ivory joint on if I wanted it, but said that if it cracked, it was very expensive to replace. So that is why I went with the stainless one.

Laura

Cueless Joey
01-21-2004, 11:27 AM
Jer, is there a chance the butt would break if the ivory ( if it's epoxied) cracks?
What do you think about the Robinson joint? Doesn't that joint ( forgetting about the hit of it) make the cue stronger?
A sectional cue like Ted's with a dual taper are stronger than full-splice imo. After all, full-splice are glued and not threaded. And, everytime you hit a ball with a full-splice ( butterfly splice are worse in this dept. I am told) the forearm is pushing down and tries to separate from the butt but does not because it's glued. Full-splice does offer more gluing surface though. That's what they were intended to do.
A sectional cue is threaded-on/jointed and is flat to flat. So, it should never break. A stronger collar should make the cue stronger if one breaks with the cue and bend it on the table. The collar should prevent the joint from splitting.

BLACKHEART
01-21-2004, 02:15 PM
I had a Robinson Q a long time ago. If I remember right ,it had the joint screw in the shaft, instead of in the butt. I remember the hit was like a Southwest &amp; the workmanship was 1st rate. I also had a full spliced Q made by Joel Hercek. It played like a dream. I highly recommend his Qs. If you anchored both ends &amp; put a weight in the middle of one of his Qs, you would see that they are indeed stronger. As for the Ivory joint cracking. Once a crack in the joint or ferrule is discovered &amp; you stop playing with it long enough to have it fixed there should be no problem...JER

ted harris
01-21-2004, 04:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> The joint does not make the overall Q "STRONGER". <hr /></blockquote>
I said that ivory sleeved over phenolic is a stronger joint than flat faced ivory, nothing more.
However, now that you bring it up...If a cuemaker uses a single procedure that is not as "strong" as anothers, is his overall cue "weaker?" Wouldn't that mean that whether a cuemaker used 1 or 20 procedures that were "stronger," you could say that the cue as a whole was "stronger," provided everything else was of equal strength? I am really not trying to get into this discussion this way, but to say that a cue is not "stronger" overall if it has more strength is ridiculous.

Popcorn
01-21-2004, 05:52 PM
Gus Szamboti made me a cue with an ivory joint that was piloted, I did not ask, that is just the way he made it. I also had one from Bill Stroud that was also piloted. I never really thought about it, but I wonder if there are any advantages to making the joint like that? As I post on here, I can't believe I have owned so many cues. Of course they were not worth that much at that time. I think the Szamboit was like $275.00 when I got it.

BLACKHEART
01-21-2004, 11:22 PM
Hi Ted. I don't think any of my posts were in any way an answer to YOUR POSTS. About this STRENGTH thing. Since the only direction a pool cue travels is in a straight line, I guess it's hard for me to think of STRONG to discribe one. When asked about my cues, I say that they are easy to play with, that they have good Q ball control &amp; things like that, but never have I discribed one as strong. MAYBE MINE ARE WEAK. Come to think of it I did have a customer swing one of my cues at a guys head &amp; missed. He hit a parking meter &amp; broke the shaft off, but the rest of the cue survived. MAYBE I DO MAKE A STRONG Q &amp; DON'T KNOW IT,HaHaHa...JER

Cueless Joey
01-21-2004, 11:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ted harris:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> The joint does not make the overall Q "STRONGER". <hr /></blockquote>
I said that ivory sleeved over phenolic is a stronger joint than flat faced ivory, nothing more.
However, now that you bring it up...If a cuemaker uses a single procedure that is not as "strong" as anothers, is his overall cue "weaker?" Wouldn't that mean that whether a cuemaker used 1 or 20 procedures that were "stronger," you could say that the cue as a whole was "stronger," provided everything else was of equal strength? I am really not trying to get into this discussion this way, but to say that a cue is not "stronger" overall if it has more strength is ridiculous. <hr /></blockquote>
I like to think you are correct Ted. I'm not taking sides since I'm from Switzerland and France. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
A cuemaker who uses the strongest epoxy possible and is conciencious enough to add about .020 of an inch where the forearm meets the handle thereby going to the lengths of using two separate tapers for the forearm and the handle, for his sake, I hope it's not all for naught. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Mad scientist Ted? Sleeving his ivory collars to strenghten them, tap, tap, tap.
I know this player in the pool hall. He breaks with his expensive custom cue. It now has a nasty rattle.

SUPERSTAR
01-22-2004, 12:23 AM
Ok. Let's clarify one thing. When i said the STRONGEST cue IMO. I wasn't talking about the JOINT. I was talking about the forearm and handle. BLACKHEART mentioned 2 basic methods. Well...most of those methods for cuemakers involve screwing the handle to the forearm in some manner. Whether it be by a PIN, or whether the handle has some wood screw sticking out of it to screw INTO the forearm or whatever. The FULL SPLICE housecue method is reserved for HERCEK and housecues. The 3rd method you talked about is CLOSE to the method Tony BLACK BOAR uses. He actually has a solid piece of wook running from the joint to the buttcap.

Most of the cues i've seen broken, have done so either in the forearm...and sometimes that's hollowed out for some reason, OR they break at the PIN area where the handle is joined to the forearm. That's what i mean by STRONGER. IT is virtually impossible to break a BLACK BOAR unless you are actually TRYING to do it. Maybe leaning it up against a wall and giving it a running kick might do the job. Or smashing it a couple of times like a golf club on some pavement, but basically....it isn't gonna break by accident as i've seen happen with OTHER cues when someone dropped them...or leaned on them a little. Even a frustrated slam on the table after a missed shot...which SHOULDN'T break a cue...but somehow DOES.

As for the joint and collar. Sleeved or not..phenolic or whatever. The strength of THAT....i have absolutely no idea about. Only difference i noticed on the ivory sleeved one vs. my other black boar with a steel joint wasn't in the way they hit, but in the weight AT THE JOINT.

Hope this cleared some things up.

SUPERSTAR

also..TED...after the cue talk, we got to talking about the TOOTH!

ted harris
01-22-2004, 01:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> Hi Ted. I don't think any of my posts were in any way an answer to YOUR POSTS.
<hr /></blockquote>
Hi Jer,
Well, since your post was titled;
Re: Ivory Jointed Cues? [re: ted harris]
01/21/04 11:01 AM (12.221.167.50)
I just assumed you were replying to my post. Since it specifically said [re: ted harris] I can only go by what was posted by you...and I am sure you build a strong cue! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ted harris
01-22-2004, 01:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr>I know this player in the pool hall. He breaks with his expensive custom cue. It now has a nasty rattle. <hr /></blockquote>
Well Joey, every cuemaker has made a cue that has had some kind of problem. My suggestion would be that the player with the cue that rattles should make arrangements to send the cue back to the maker to correct the problem. Unless it was caused by abuse (intentional or unintentional), most cuemakers would fix it for free, myself included. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tommy_Davidson
01-22-2004, 01:57 AM
&gt; I have a question primarily for the cuemakers in the group. I have played with the same Bob Runde era Schon for 12 years now,and refuse to change until I find something that hits and feels better to me. That being said,I try to hit balls with as many different cues as possible. Most players/cuemakers/dealers I have talked to over the years feel that the flat-faced,big pin type cues such as Southwest,Josey,Ted's and Jerry's are "stiffer" than a piloted stainless style like Szambotis,along with the other old school cuemakers like Runde,Mottey,etc. I understand their use of "stiffness" as a term to describe an aspect of that particular cues playability,assuming that the exact opposite of that would be "flexibility",referring to "whippier" cues like Meucci,Cuetec and such. How do you feel on this subject? In my own experience,I feel like the stainless type is "stiffer" as far as that earlier described phenomenon,but then again I have never owned one,so maybe I am not looking at this as objectively as I perhaps could be. Maybe it's the shaft/butt taper synergy that causes this school of thought,as I understood it,David Kersenbrock was the one that popularized the flat faced big pin movement,using a more conical semi-constant taper along the whole cues length,as opposed to being made up of a bunch of straight sections of varying diameter,and blended in. The taper on the shaft I use most feels to me just like a Southwest or Cognoscenti does,with little or no straight section,tapering a little the whole way back,and I can feel the difference in the level of my own perceived "stiffness" as compared to the standard Schon taper I see on other players Schons. This is the best thread I have seen on the subject or general cue construction in a while. Also,what did that guy mean by "tool and die" cuemakers? Is having a machinist/tool and die based background a bad thing? Am I taking a machine shop class with 2 quarters of CNC training for nothing? The experienced,certified tool and die makers I know are absolute nuts when it comes to the accuracy and quality of their machines as well as the processes taken to get there,along with the finished product. If Ted and Jerry can comment on this,by all means do so. I will be contacting both of you via email and phone soon,as I would like to take a stab at doing something cue related in class,as I have to complete 4 projects of my own design to graduate this class,and need your advice on several things too complicated to discuss here. Thanks for your input,Tommy D.

Tommy_Davidson
01-28-2004, 12:30 AM
&gt; No response from Jerry and Ted? I must be slipping. Tommy D.

jer9ball
01-28-2004, 11:32 AM
I've played with cues that had joints of aluminum, steel, linen phenolic, and ivory. Without a doubt, the biggest difference I can feel, is due to the tip and shaft. Haven't ever changed ferrules, so I don't know what that would do.

I really think the joint material is pretty much a moot point. Pick something that you like. If there was one vastly superior material or style, most of the pros would use it. Instead, they generally play with whatever company pays them the most to use.

cheers,
jer9ball

Popcorn
01-28-2004, 11:57 AM
Although everything has to be taken into account, there is, to me anyway, a distinct difference between a piloted steel joint and a flat faced joint, whether it be phenolic, ivory, plastic or whatever. I think the choice of joint is an important element.

BLACKHEART
01-28-2004, 12:52 PM
HI TOMMY; If all of us were "A" players &amp; had owned Qs from all of the joint &amp; taper types, then all of the terms like stiffness would mean the same to everyone. Since that's not the case, then stiffness can have different meanings to each of us, depending on our experience.
When a ball is hit with a Q, it sends a shock wave from the tip to the end of the Q. If it were made from a straight grained single piece of wood, then the shock wave would be uninterrupted all of the way back to your hand at the wrap. Now, everything you put in between that tip &amp; your hand, stops some of that feed back. I feel that metal joints stop more of the feedback than any of the others. So you could interpret that as "STIFFNESS". Or you could say that a shaft with less flex had more "STIFFNESS". Maybe things like this are the reason we can't all agree on terms discribing a certain makers Qs.
By the way the taper on my shafts is straight for the 1st 4 inches, then increases slowly for the next 7 inches. So it's more "conical" than a true pro taper.
If you look at the joint end of a shaft, you can predict whether it has a stiffer hit. The sooner the taper begins,the whippier the shaft will be. The stiffness comes from the joint end. JUST MY OBSERVATIONS...JER

Rod
01-28-2004, 01:13 PM
Amen, I like your observations. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I think I might like your shafts too. It's not often the people hear how a maker tapers their shafts. It can be measured of course which is what I have done in the past.

Rod