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04-21-2002, 02:09 AM
Several years ago, I had a local New Orleans man replace two cue tips. i supplied the tips as his selection wasn’t very impressive. I suspected by his manner and modest set up that this guy wasn’t properly educated in modern cue construction. The prices were beyond low (7 dollars for a tip replacement including a free shaft refinish). I had worries that he may have never seen a laminated tip before, let alone know what to do with it. He had a tiny portable lathe at the now closed “ Big Easy Billiards” pool hall hidden in a popularly used mall, in residence during any tournament. Well, he put the tips on well. I had to only wait an hour...the shaft refinishing I thought would need much time before I could use the shaft., but he assured me…”go try it out”. Upon first touch I was shocked, the shaft felt like true perfection, cool slippery glass. I was a fool to assume incompetence…he was talented. I brought all of my cues to him for the next few years. Now I cannot find anyone, or any products (tried the Q clean kit, Q silk, > 1500 sandpaper, etc) that can create such a fine finish. I am now looking into scientific instrument grade abrasives, and extremely hard finishes (”Rock Hard” and even “West Systems” epoxy) that will take an extremely fine polish. I know it may sound absurd but I actually play better with a more glassy finish, no exaggeration. Maybe just a mental thing but it does improve my game. Any help or hints that I have not tried will be greatly appreciated. I hope to be able to at least equal what this gentleman did. He remains unequalled so far ...no other local Cue maintenance folks have come close. If you know of the gentleman I am referring to then please post. This is my Holy Grail in a sense, the most amazing shaft finish possible. If I have success with the extreme fine abrasives and extra hard finish I’ll surely make a follow up post. Of note, New Orleans is a sauna, high heat and perpetual 100% humidity (really). Perhaps this is a factor in why I cannot match the quality from years ago. Maybe this man learned a secret to adjust to such conditions. Any information and/or ideas greatly appreciated.
Sincere best regards,
^v^

Chris Cass
04-21-2002, 03:23 AM
Hi Red,

More than likely he refinished your shaft with rubbing compound at a high speed. It not only cleans the shaft but it does come out like glass and feels smooth to the touch. Jacoby uses the Mothers cleaner/polish.

If you had a spare bolt pin and a drill you could place it in a vice and spin it using the stuff. Seen it done at a tourney awhile back.

Regards,

C.C.

04-21-2002, 06:14 AM
The best thing I ever used on my shafts is Micro-Burnishing film you can find it in Mueller catalog pg, 104.
They are four defferent grades of of fine abrasives that do an excellent job. Just rince them in luke warm water after your finished . You can use them 50 to 75 times before they need replaced .

Doctor_D
04-21-2002, 06:58 AM
Good morning:

The Q-Smooth burnishing film works very well. I use the film in conjunction with the Q-Glide. The Q-Glide, which appears to be like a silicone, seals and smooths the shafts. Additionally, as far as the burnishing film is concerned, you can extend its useful life by rinsing them under warm water after each use.

Dr. D.

/ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif Amazing what you learn once you become hooked on this game /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Dr. D.

TomBrooklyn
04-21-2002, 07:45 AM
I suspect very fine wet/dry sandpaper in grits of 1000, 1200, and 1500 as used in the auto body business for sanding between coats of high end paint jobs and available at autobody suppliers would be equivelent in performance to the special burnishing film which I think is merely small pieces of very fine sandpaper on a plastic rather than paper backing. Would anyone disagree?

They wet/dry sandpaper can also be rinsed off after use. Each 8"x11" (approx.) sheet costs about a dollar, so you get a lot more for your money.

JimS
04-21-2002, 08:24 AM
I get mine as smooth as I can by hand using the Q-Smooth papers and then use a leather burnisher and then, I believe, the secret is to use cigarete lighter fluid to clean and seal the shaft.

It does feel like glass after using the lighter fluid. I haven't needed to use anything but the lighter fluid and leather burnisher since I started using it. No more abrasives of any kind have been needed. I love it!...thanks TonyM for the idea!!!

Cueless Joey
04-21-2002, 08:29 AM
Dr. Z is the best shaft pack there is imo. It comes with aircraft quality "sandpaper" and wool cloth.

Troy
04-21-2002, 08:50 AM
With that glowing intro, I wouldn't dare try to compete with your memory of the "perfect shaft".
He no doubt spun the shaft in his lathe and burnished it very well.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: redwinebluebird:</font><hr> Several years ago, I had a local New Orleans man replace two cue tips. i supplied the tips as his selection wasn?t very impressive. I suspected by his manner and modest set up that this guy wasn?t properly educated in modern cue construction. The prices were beyond low (7 dollars for a tip replacement including a free shaft refinish). I had worries that he may have never seen a laminated tip before, let alone know what to do with it. He had a tiny portable lathe at the now closed ? Big Easy Billiards? pool hall hidden in a popularly used mall, in residence during any tournament. Well, he put the tips on well. I had to only wait an hour...the shaft refinishing I thought would need much time before I could use the shaft., but he assured me??go try it out?. Upon first touch I was shocked, the shaft felt like true perfection, cool slippery glass. I was a fool to assume incompetence?he was talented. I brought all of my cues to him for the next few years. Now I cannot find anyone, or any products (tried the Q clean kit, Q silk, &gt; 1500 sandpaper, etc) that can create such a fine finish. I am now looking into scientific instrument grade abrasives, and extremely hard finishes (?Rock Hard? and even ?West Systems? epoxy) that will take an extremely fine polish. I know it may sound absurd but I actually play better with a more glassy finish, no exaggeration. Maybe just a mental thing but it does improve my game. Any help or hints that I have not tried will be greatly appreciated. I hope to be able to at least equal what this gentleman did. He remains unequalled so far ...no other local Cue maintenance folks have come close. If you know of the gentleman I am referring to then please post. This is my Holy Grail in a sense, the most amazing shaft finish possible. If I have success with the extreme fine abrasives and extra hard finish I?ll surely make a follow up post. Of note, New Orleans is a sauna, high heat and perpetual 100% humidity (really). Perhaps this is a factor in why I cannot match the quality from years ago. Maybe this man learned a secret to adjust to such conditions. Any information and/or ideas greatly appreciated.
Sincere best regards,
^v^
<hr></blockquote>

clarence
04-21-2002, 04:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: JimS:</font><hr> I get mine as smooth as I can by hand using the Q-Smooth papers and then use a leather burnisher and then, I believe, the secret is to use cigarete lighter fluid to clean and seal the shaft.

It does feel like glass after using the lighter fluid. I haven't needed to use anything but the lighter fluid and leather burnisher since I started using it. No more abrasives of any kind have been needed. I love it!...thanks TonyM for the idea!!! <hr></blockquote>


after applying the lighter fluid do you burnish the shaft with leather again ?

04-21-2002, 05:20 PM
thanks to all for the information. a question though... i don't mean to sound rude...is the lighter fluid thing for real or just some inside joke here for newbies?;) i'm willing to try it but it sounds too good to be true(also sounds like a trick /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif. i do want to add that i do like the q~smooth films but they are still not quite as effective as(and no i'm not suffering from a photogenic memory) the finish available at "the Big Easy". i feel sure these are over prices auto sandpaper, not true 3000+ "mirco" grits. anyone know the approximate grit of these things? one more thing..Q~glide, is it normal to have to squeeze the mercy out of the bottle to get a drop out? what are some opinions on this very expensive stuff?
best regards and thanks,
^v^

04-21-2002, 05:35 PM
I am surprised that no one recommended the "Q-Wiz" page 54 in the Mueller catalog. I live in Florida and my game suffered with the heat and high humidity here. Like most serious players I tried every thing you can think of until I found the Q-Wiz. This neat little disc now lives in my right front pocket and is always ready to keep me in stroke no matter what. It is a two sided disc. One side is used to clean and smooth a dirty shaft and the other side is used to burnish the shaft. I was amazed at how easy it is to use but was concerned that the cleaning side might be removing wood so I contacted the manufacturer. They told me that they had an engineering company conduct a series of test. The conclusion was that the more abrasive cleaning side did in fact remove a minute amount of wood but it would take about ten years of frequent use to reduce the shaft 1/10 of a mm (about the same as using a dollor bill according to Barry Szamboti). The burnishing side did not remove any wood at all. I frequent a lot of the Pro events and have noticed more and more of the Pro's using the Q-Wiz. That was good enough for me. I'm hooked on them.

cheesemouse
04-21-2002, 07:12 PM
wino,
It's for real. I thought the same thing but I tried it and its for real.

04-22-2002, 05:17 AM
Tom, the only problem with using sand paper is that it opens the pours of your shaft,it doesn't burnish (seal) the shaft. Therefore you will sand your shaft more often.With the burnishing pads if your shaft needs dressed up a little you can just take a damp paper towel and wipe it once or twice then wipe it with a dry towel and its as good as new,because the shaft is sealed. You can do this three or four time before you need to burnish the shaft again.This way your shaft will last longer.

04-22-2002, 05:45 AM
OK everybody try this...Armor All. Yup Armor All.

Best Method
1. Small amount on a clean napkin
2. Run over length of shaft
3. Let it dry verticle for 10 min
4. Re-apply
5. Burnish with new clean napkin
6. Amazing result &amp; cheap

Oh stay away from tip or you'll regret it. Also does a great job of cleaning shaft.

Nick

BillPorter
04-22-2002, 06:42 AM
The lighter fluid idea is for real. It's been around for many years and is a standby for some of the older players. The Q-Wiz pad is also great. It's handy, can be washed off and reused many times, and can be found on the Internet for about $5 a pad. It's been my experience that some shafts do better with one approach and others with another technique. Q Silk works well. One of my favorites is cue wax "burnished" with 1500 or 2000 grit paper.

04-22-2002, 08:17 AM
Here's something I use which is an idea that was passed on to me:
Start by cleaning the shaft thoroughly. Sand lightly with 800 grit sandpaper, then vigorously w/ 1000 grit, then finish w/1500 grit. The fine grades of sandpaper used will not remove wood from the shaft. Next, spray with Silicone spray, which can be bought in the local Autoparts store. Make sure it's silicone and not something oil based. Let the shaft soak up the spray. After it dries, sand again with 1500 grit paper and clean with soap and water. Spary again with Silicone and buff with a paper towel.

This should leave your shaft smooth as a babies A and moisture resistant also. The only thing you need to do once in a while, is to spray the stick and buff. I do my shaft before every tournament and swear by it.

Eric &gt;just silly about silicone

04-22-2002, 08:18 AM
Here's something I use which is an idea that was passed on to me:
Start by cleaning the shaft thoroughly. Sand lightly with 800 grit sandpaper, then vigorously w/ 1000 grit, then finish w/1500 grit. The fine grades of sandpaper used will not remove wood from the shaft. Next, spray with Silicone spray, which can be bought in the local Autoparts store. Make sure it's silicone and not something oil based. Let the shaft soak up the spray. After it dries, sand again with 1500 grit paper and clean with soap and water. Spary again with Silicone and buff with a paper towel.

This should leave your shaft smooth as a babies A and moisture resistant also. The only thing you need to do once in a while, is to spray the stick and buff. I do my shaft before every tournament and swear by it.

Eric &gt;just silly about silicone

04-24-2002, 06:58 AM
I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but just out of curiosity I tried using some basic Pledge furniture polish on my old McDermott shaft. It didn't do much as far as cleaning, but it did really "slicken" it up! I sprayed the polish on a paper towel and and rubbed it on gently at first gradually working up to a vigorous "burnishing" with the paper towel. This is the first time I've tried it, so I don't know the long-term effects it might/might not have. One side benefit.....the shaft now has a nice "lemon-fresh" smell instead of the usual ashtray smell!

04-24-2002, 07:08 AM
I posted the previous "Pledge" message and forgot to ask for feedback if anyone knows of reasons I should not be using Pledge on the shaft. (i.e. long-term detrimental effects)

JimS
04-24-2002, 07:17 AM
I don't blame you for questioning the veracity of my recommendation for lighter fluid but I'm not pulling your leg. The stuff works great. It was recommended to me/us here on the ccb by TonyM, a cue builder in Canada who has years of experience and is a very bright individual. I make it a point to never miss his posts.

I'm a real nut about having a perfectly clean and smooth shaft. I've tried every commericial product I could find....Karseal, Cue Slick, Q-Glide, Shark Oil...you name it and I bought it and used it for a while until the next thing came to my attention. The lighter fluid is absolutely the best thing I've used yet.

Oh...about having to squeeze the life out of the bottle to get a drop out.......that was also my experience. I never have to use those products that leave a waxy service now. I found that all of them got sticky after using them a few times and then I had to use abrasive on the shaft to cut the stuff off. I don't have to do that with the lighter fluid. Burnish it with leather and then use the lighter fluid. No special brand. I even carry a small amount in my cue case in an eye drop bottle (with the old label removed and ligher fluid clearly written w/a Sharpie marker)

JimS
04-24-2002, 07:24 AM
I'm no expert and I don't know of any detrimental long term effects of using the Pledge but every product I've used to coat the shaft, whether it was Karseal or Q Slick or Cue Glide or Shark Oil or whatever, left a residue that after a short time and some humidity got gooey and sticky. Then I had to sand the shaft to get rid of the stuff. By far the best thing I've used is the lighter fluid. It hasn't gotten sticky. I use only a leather burnisher now. Haven't used ANY abrasive for the last approximately 3 months.

JimS
04-24-2002, 07:27 AM
I don't. The fluid dries immediately and is ready to go. The surface is very polished and slick with no residue that gets sticky later.

04-24-2002, 07:49 AM
I wondered if the Pledge might gum-up over time. I'm picking up a 314 shaft today, do you know if it is safe to use lighter fluid on a Pred. shaft?

JimS
04-24-2002, 07:52 AM
Sorry but I don't know...but Tony will..if he's around today.

Rich R.
04-24-2002, 07:53 AM
Jim, like you, I am no expert, but I do dabble in woodworking. From things I have read in woodworking magazines, I don't believe that products containing silicone do anything good to wood. Pledge contains silicone. IMHO I wouldn't use it on a pool cue or wood furniture.
I personally do not like to use any type of wax product on my shaft. When new, I use a fine abrasive to take most of the wax and/or lacquer finish off. Only rarely after that. Since I only sand very lightly, I'm sure some finish remains in the grain of the wood and seals it. I prefer the feel of the smooth wood. It is harder to keep clean, but I am not real finicky about that. I don't mind if my cue looks like I use it. LOL. Rich R.

04-24-2002, 08:13 AM
In the 60s I had a friend who shot 3 cushion billiards. He would burnish his shafts with a dollar bill &amp; put a couple drops of lighter fluid on a napkin, and rub it in. I don't remember which he did first. I don't see him too often now, but I'll ask next time I see him.

04-24-2002, 11:24 AM
Summary ---
.&gt; Pledge, CueWax, Karseal, etc... All will get "gummy" when exposed to a bit of sweat.
.&gt; Silicone used sparingly shouldn't hurt a shaft... Do NOT drown it... I use a piece of old baby blanket with a small amount of silicone spray and buff after application.
.&gt; Cig Lighter Fluid (NOT Butane... /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif )should NOT bother a Predator.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: jingle:</font><hr> I wondered if the Pledge might gum-up over time. I'm picking up a 314 shaft today, do you know if it is safe to use lighter fluid on a Pred. shaft? <hr></blockquote>

Troy
04-24-2002, 12:10 PM
Mmmmm. I didn't logoff but became Anon anyway..... /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> Summary ---
.&gt; Pledge, CueWax, Karseal, etc... All will get "gummy" when exposed to a bit of sweat.
.&gt; Silicone used sparingly shouldn't hurt a shaft... Do NOT drown it... I use a piece of old baby blanket with a small amount of silicone spray and buff after application.
.&gt; Cig Lighter Fluid (NOT Butane... /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif )should NOT bother a Predator.

Troy

clarence
04-24-2002, 05:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: JimS:</font><hr> I'm no expert and I don't know of any detrimental long term effects of using the Pledge but every product I've used to coat the shaft, whether it was Karseal or Q Slick or Cue Glide or Shark Oil or whatever, left a residue that after a short time and some humidity got gooey and sticky. Then I had to sand the shaft to get rid of the stuff. By far the best thing I've used is the lighter fluid. It hasn't gotten sticky. I use only a leather burnisher now. Haven't used ANY abrasive for the last approximately 3 months.


Hey Jim what do you use to clean your shaft to remove chalk and hand oil. Some say lighter fluid can do this as well .

How come you burnish first then apply the lighter fluid after ? The people I know that use lighter fluid to keep the shaft slick does it this way

1. Use water or alcohol to remove hand oil and or chalk from shaft.
2 When shaft is clean rub with soft cloth to help it dry up well. Most prefer alcohol as it dries up faster compared to water.
3 apply lighter fluid on soft cloth and apply to shaft
4 Burnish with leather

Barbara
04-24-2002, 07:40 PM
Long time, no post!

I ran into Barry at the Expo (a couple of times) and he told me he met you! He really likes your product, too.

And thanks for my "extra" Q-Wiz!

Barbara

JimS
04-24-2002, 09:13 PM
The reason I use the lighter fluid is to clean the chalk dust and hand oils from the cue. It just happens to do a great job of burnishing it to. I use the leather burnisher as needed while playing.