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View Full Version : Any info on this Nubs cue (nova)



Foxtrott
01-20-2004, 07:27 PM
I have obtained a nova cue . I have no Idea of the true value of the cue . Im not an Ivory kinda cue person so I was not to keep it and just trade it off .I hit a few balls with it and bam the cue must be something .Any information would be greatly appriciated. I had the pictures put on a webpage . Here is the link . I coulnot Email all the pictures and keep Emailing and Emailing .Let me know what you think .
http://www.tradedepo.com/praygodschildrenscuespictures.html
Click on the nova.
Also webmaster when you check this could you email me a link so I can resubscribe to the Mag as we just moved
and I have to travel 20 miles to get it on order from the local bookstore . Thanks Fox

tateuts
01-20-2004, 08:50 PM
I had a Nova and liked it a lot but I sold it.

My experience has been that Nova's sell for a little less than comparable Schon's. While it may Blue Book for $2,000 I think realistically it would bring $1000 or maybe a little more or less on auction, which is what the high end Schon's end up trading hands for. Not that it's not worth more, it's just that there is not a strong collector following for Nova's.

I have not seen your cue before, or anything like it exactly. Although they are good cues and Nubs Wagner was and is a well liked man with a great reputation, I don't think Nova built up a strong enough customer following as either a custom cue maker or a production cue maker. Very few can survive in the gray area in-between. Marketing, sales, and referrals are what the cue business is all about and there are too many talented cue makers out there. He closed shop a couple of years ago, sadly.

The crash of the Japanese cue frenzy also hurt a lot of cue makers that were maybe a little over-extended. Here's a new Nova for sale in Japan that's somewhat similar to yours:

http://www.tp-cc.com/Nova/NV01-32.htm

The price? 212,000 yen, or about $2000.

I had heard that Nubs was still doing repairs and whatever -he moved away from Wisconsin too I think. Maybe someone can post his phone number and you can contact him about your cue's history.

Chris

Foxtrott
01-20-2004, 09:15 PM
Thanks for the info . Personally I do not put much stock in any cnc cues but I have friends that are great shooters and they do . I just cannot play with a full ivory cue . I worry more about bumping the cue more than my game . The guy paid $3800 for the cue alone so I would guesstamate you may be right on the money with you figure.I was told this Cue was made here in the US but still its cnc .I was hopeing to end up with an old widow cue for it . I just didnot know if it was something I should stick up in the closet and break out later .Thanks for your feedback on the issue .
Fox

Foxtrott
01-20-2004, 09:27 PM
Yes I see a resemblence . But Not half the ivory nor the ivory points the guy said were so rare in a nova but that box design is close.Thanks for the link it kinda gives me a better idea on what they go for .
Fox

tateuts
01-20-2004, 09:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Foxtrott:</font><hr> Thanks for the info . Personally I do not put much stock in any cnc cues but I have friends that are great shooters and they do . I just cannot play with a full ivory cue . I worry more about bumping the cue more than my game . The guy paid $3800 for the cue alone so I would guesstamate you may be right on the money with you figure.I was told this Cue was made here in the US but still its cnc .Fox <hr /></blockquote>

I think you're right on all of this. I can see the cue going for over $3,000 in the height of the custom cue/investment craze. The values have really taken a nosedive except for a handful or legendary makers.

Before cues were way overvalued. I kind of think that some of them are undervalued now.

Chris

Popcorn
01-20-2004, 11:55 PM
I am just curious, what do you mean when you refer to a cnc cue?

Cueless Joey
01-20-2004, 11:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I am just curious, what do you mean when you refer to a cnc cue? <hr /></blockquote>
Cues with points/pockets and inlays that were cut by a computer nemerical controled mill. :-)

Foxtrott
01-21-2004, 12:02 AM
A cnc is where a computer makes the cuts and the maker installs the pieces . If you will notice you will see plain jane looking cues bring a premium dollar over the loaded ivory cues.Thats because they are all hand done . This cue was made the same way as a schon .CNC

Popcorn
01-21-2004, 12:11 AM
Other then the value, what would be the differance between a cue where the pockets for the inlay were cut on a manual panograph and one cut with a cnc mill? How would you know the differance, if you were not told by the cuemaker it was cnc cut?

Foxtrott
01-21-2004, 12:22 AM
You can tell by the sharp points . The CNC will have a rounded edge and a hand done will have a sharp edge .Yes the value makes a great difference .The cue shoots the same and has a ton of Ivory . I am not an ivory cue owner or liker (I like just a tad) but If I were to get a loaded ivory cue and was going to spend $3800 on a cue I would have made sure it was hand done and gotten less Ivory.Now I realise that the friendship thing came into play for him to go overbord on a cnc and the cue will appriciate but it willot do what a scruggs or a lambros would do in the situation.Sure years down the road it will be worth a ton but that scruggs or lambros will be worth double.

Popcorn
01-21-2004, 12:24 AM
quote
"Personally I do not put much stock in any cnc cues "

I was wondering just why he used the term cnc, as a derogatory term.

Foxtrott
01-21-2004, 12:32 AM
I don't say it is %100 derogatory it I guess matters what you collect and prefer and what your budjet is. I prefer all hand made wood on wood (only )shooting cues . I got that because I wanted a Jerry Franklin sothwest.I think the cue was done great.Its just not in my field or desire.The guy had to do a ton of work to get that cue together in the first place . Face it a cuemaker is just about forced to do CNC worK nowadays because all the hand crafted makers have made their name and customer base . I have heard nothing but great feedback on nubs and Nova cues and his cues and I would place that cue over a schon if you want my honest opinion but the only schon I would own would be a old handmade one by BOB.

Popcorn
01-21-2004, 12:33 AM
You are describing the difference between a spliced point and a flat bottom ( inlayed) point. Many cuemakers like to do inlayed points such as floating points that are cut manually. As far as the rounded point, that is due to the radius of the cutter whether cut manually or cnc. You would have no way of knowing how it really was done.

Popcorn
01-21-2004, 12:39 AM
You are losing me on the hand made thing. Do you see the guy with a hammer and chisel cutting the inlay? Cue makers have been using pano-mills to do inlay as long as cues have been made.

Foxtrott
01-21-2004, 12:43 AM
You win .

Popcorn
01-21-2004, 01:03 AM
I actually agree with you, I feel a cue where the cuemaker uses cnc to do the inlay work should be worth less. For the simple reason that the cuemaker is only limited by the amount of equipment he has. He can make an almost unlimited number of cues. If he is doing all the work himself, then there is a limited number of cues he will produce in his life just due to the personal time involved. When technology comes into play several things happen. One is, better and more consistent product is produced, as well as increased production. Second, is the price and value of the product goes down. This should also apply to cues. I think the reason it does not, is because many cue shops produce one of a kind work. They create a limited production product on purpose. That can result in a higher value.

Cueless Joey
01-21-2004, 01:11 AM
How many of those 9 cuemakers at the cueamakers' show in LA use CNC?
ALL of them, I think. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
OK, maybe not Schick.
Actually, CNC points can be made sharper if the cuemaker wants too. Inlayed points done on a pantograph uses the same cutting mills as the cnc mills.
Now, the v-bottom points are the sharpest. But, some cuemakers argue too that v-points aren't good b/c they take too much wood from the forearm . Coring the forearm makes it a moot point though.
Hell, plane janes hit the best! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Foxtrott
01-21-2004, 01:17 AM
I fully agree with that . I have no idea what to do with the cue . I cannot shoot with it and I am not a collector so it has no use to me but it is a nice cue. Im more of a shooter and the weather changes I go through and the enviorments I am in would be short life on that cue .

Foxtrott
01-21-2004, 02:39 AM
I thank everyone for the replys on the cue .But I still wonder if anyone knows where nubs is or how to contact him .
Thank you Fox

Wally_in_Cincy
01-21-2004, 08:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Foxtrott:</font><hr> ...Also webmaster when you check this could you email me a link so I can resubscribe to the Mag as we just moved ...<hr /></blockquote>

I'm not the webmaster but here ya' go:

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/subscribe/

tateuts
01-21-2004, 01:30 PM
OK, guys. I'm telling it like it is. Seeing a beautiful, sharp inlay makes me smile. All I know is, seeing a heavily rounded "point" makes me want to puke. It's purely aesthetic. OK I said it - let's call them "blunts" or "U" turns, or "dulls". Let's call them "child safe prongs", but face it, let's not call them "points" because they certainly are not.

I don't care what tool was used to make them, no "blunts" in my collection!

Chris

woody_968
01-21-2004, 04:27 PM
New campain - Just say NO to Blunts - LOL

Cueless Joey
01-21-2004, 04:49 PM
Bandido's cues (http://azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/attachment.php?s=&amp;postid=922) OK, how about this one?
These were done MANUALLY by Edwin Reyes. No panto or any mill.

tateuts
01-21-2004, 04:57 PM
I break into the song...

WILD THING DA-DA DA-DA-DA YOU MAKE MUH HEART SING DA-DA DA-DA-DA YOU MAKE EVERY THING... GROO-VEE!

Popcorn
01-21-2004, 05:02 PM
It is the size of the cutter. You can use an 1/16 of an inch cutter that will produce a larger more noticeable point or you can use a 1/32 or even 1/64 cutter where except up close will appear to comes more to a point. For the extra touch the cue maker can clean up the point by hand and make it perfect. Cutters are expensive. If the right speeds are not chosen you can break $50.00 worth of cutters doing just a few inlays. that is why some guys chose to use larger cutters. It is faster and they will not be inclined to break so easily. It would be unreasonable to use such a small cutter doing large points, but with smaller inlays, there is no reason for them to have such large radiuses unless it is the intention of the design. When you see inlay like diamonds that should have points with a radius you can see at arms length, the cuemake is just lazy. It would make me wonder where else he skimps on quality. Like anything, the truth is always in the details. I believe with cues, a cue who's design and workmanship is more perfectly executed, is worth more. Just as it would be at a car show, two cars side by side can be the same car, but one just stands out and the price should reflect it. I like to use the term "clean". Some cue makers work is incredibly clean, even a cue that is very plain. You just look at it and you can see the difference. Look where the different woods meet each other, how the collars meet up with the wood the fit of the shaft, ring work that is perfect, not one a few thousandth bigger and your eye can see it. Very little glue lines if any, (sometimes luck). most of the cues out there can be easily picked apart if you want, even among the name cuemakers. Very few are in that top class or even care to be, it is not easy. It is not to be critical of any one cuemaker, just there are few that turn out that kind of clean, total attention to detail work that should command the big bucks. Many are fooling themselves with the prices they think their work is worth. This is all just my opinion of course.

SpiderMan
01-21-2004, 05:04 PM
All rounded points are not done by CNC, some are done by manual pantograph routing. They still use a spinning motorized cutter, though, and that results in rounded points. But you can't really tell a pocket cut by manual pantograph from one cut by CNC.

On the other hand, neither can you tell a fully hand-cut (by knife) pocket from one that was routed out by either a CNC or manual pantograph, then the points "sharpened" by finishing with a blade. Bill Schick uses a pantograph followed by a blade for finishing the sharp pockets. The inlay itself can be completely made by CNC or pantograph and still have sharp points, since that is an outside-milling operation.

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
01-21-2004, 05:06 PM
That is one good-looking stick!

SpiderMan

Popcorn
01-21-2004, 05:09 PM
Good work is good work, no matter how it is done. Someone can be a butcher even with the best of equipment. You would have to see the cues up close, to really evaluate the guys work. A picture on the net can't tell you much.

tateuts
01-21-2004, 05:15 PM
Thanks for the info, Popcorn.

Popcorn
01-21-2004, 05:24 PM
You can spot a point that is an inlay and not a splice if it has veneers. The veneers will appear like a chevron and similar in size. With a spliced point, the veneers will change from one to another as the cue tapers, this does not happen with an inlayed point. They are a little more work to do and can look nice.

Cueless Joey
01-21-2004, 05:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> You can spot a point that is an inlay and not a splice if it has veneers. The veneers will appear like a chevron and similar in size. With a spliced point, the veneers will change from one to another as the cue tapers, this does not happen with an inlayed point. They are a little more work to do and can look nice. <hr /></blockquote>
My local cuemaker worked on some blanks with veneered v-points from a well-known cuemaker who passed away. He had to fill up the glue gaps at the bottom of the points. Those veneered v-points look nice but some veneers are soft and/or do not stay all that tight at the bottom.
Inlayed points go only about .125" deep at the max. It does a good job of preserving the forearm's integrity imo.

Popcorn
01-21-2004, 05:41 PM
I was not saying one was any better then the other, just if someone tell you the point is spliced, for what ever reason, when it is an inlay, you can tell. Bloodworth makes points like that and so does Bill Stroud, maybe more.

Cueless Joey
01-21-2004, 05:48 PM
My bad.
Tad inlays his veneers too.

Foxtrott
01-22-2004, 03:35 AM
All that info is great guys but has anyone seen nubs or know how to contact him ?

SpiderMan
01-22-2004, 08:25 AM
I wasn't talking about inlay vs splice, I was referring to inlay vs inlay. I'm familiar with the veneers and like that style also. I think the jury's still out on whether the spliced butt is inherently stronger and more warp-resistant that a fully-cored conventional, but I vote for the splice. The guys at AE cues argue elsewise, but then it's in their interest.

SpiderMan

Foxtrott
01-23-2004, 03:21 AM
Are you saying the only real way to tell if it is a splice vasically is if you remove the wrap ?