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View Full Version : Are the pros so good ?



Foxtrott
01-24-2004, 04:40 AM
Now I have been around here and there and in my travels you can sometimes run across the big names in sponsered touraments .We all have . Now not to knock any of the pros as I would not want to lock horns with them right now but are they really just faces? I mean if you can afford to train 8 to 12 hours a day 7 days a week as we did when I played strong there is not many people that can touch you .I have noticed and not to sound Odd but all the players now days are attractive and when I have seen these players I have seen them loose to medioker players Now guys like Efrin breaks that thought but for the most part they are all attractive in one way or another .My wife says Efrin though dresses well and is a nice man and is considered attractive for TV viewers.I am concerned if the "not so" attractive players are haveing difficulty placeing as a name .I know a pro or 2 though from here and
there thing as alot of us do and have never brought up this issue so as not to offend.I have seen very strong games in my life come just out of local pool rooms in all towns.I mean if you go to anytown you will definatly find there is a player that nobody will play without weight in some way or another .Now a few of us know a few people that have alot to do with the placement of the players and everyone has seen that for the most part they are spread out like butter except for the big events . Hey business is business and I understand this but I know some pretty not so good looking players that would give some of the pros a run
for their money or maybe even worse .I respect the pros as all the training they do . Per advice from the big guy in Fla. that a few of you know I was told to train train train . In another 6 months of training constantly in my basement I will go at it again. Ive been at it a year now. I will say though I do have a concern as I willnot hustle this go round . I will shoot for the tourneys . As I am not a ugly person but not a showpice .I have concerns of will I have the same advancement oppertunities as the big guys.Look at the female pros that follow this board .No disrespect ladys and I am married with 3 kids house dog the works but you girls are knockouts especially the up and comeings . I know you guys shoot well and mean nothing bad .I mean no disrespect but this issue does bother me a little as I had planned this and worked hard to save to be able to train properly .As I am in my mid thirtys now I am not like I was if you know what I mean .Personally I think the right players out there now can be in the ranks if they work hard and save so they can afford to do this.I worked 2 jobs for 5 years to do this and have devoloped a business from the procees . It was not easy . I guess I am saying does anyone think there is a bit of truth to the matter that the attractive players get the oppertunities over the normal or not so attractive players to go to the top ?Have you guys seen players passed because of their looks?If not passed just not get that little help here and there ?All the big names in the old days were not so attractive and not so young but they definatly earned their position and could play well.What are your thoughts in this matter?I ment no dissrespect by this post to anyone but this is an issue that few will talk about but do wonder about .

woody_968
01-24-2004, 09:13 AM
Well I dont think there are people being passed over because they are ugly. These are pool tournaments, if ya win the game you move on. I know the womens tour does seed the players, so this does make it more difficult, but never the less still depends on play. Heck look at some of the top players on womens tour, they are not all knock outs, but they can all play.

bigshooter
01-24-2004, 09:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Foxtrott:</font><hr>
not to sound Odd but all the players now days are attractive and when I have seen these players I have seen them loose to medioker players...

I am concerned if the "not so" attractive players are haveing difficulty placeing as a name...

Now a few of us know a few people that have alot to do with the placement of the players and everyone has seen that for the most part they are spread out like butter except for the big events . Hey business is business and I understand this but I know some pretty not so good looking players that would give some of the pros a run
for their money or maybe even worse ...

I guess I am saying does anyone think there is a bit of truth to the matter that the attractive players get the oppertunities over the normal or not so attractive players to go to the top ?

Have you guys seen players passed because of their looks?

All the big names in the old days were not so attractive and not so young but they definatly earned their position and could play well.What are your thoughts in this matter?

<hr /></blockquote>

I'm not sure what your trying to say or ask, as far as I know players are equal according to their ability not whether their good looking or butt ugly.

If your referring to tournament seeding? I don't think looks has anything to do with it.

Are you referring to sponsors?
That is the only area I know of that might be affected but hey welcome to the real world, take for example Anna Kournikova who is ranked somewhere around 70th place in the world but is strikingly beautiful and has more sponsorship deals than the rest of the women tennis players put together.

Personally I am buff and hot so I don't worry about such things. LOL = middle age spread. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Foxtrott
01-24-2004, 09:57 AM
If you are saying the sponsers have the only kickback you must take into the consideration of paying your dues tagging along with the tour . I have seen all the guys that travel with the tour and none of them are ugly .Who pays for this ? It is most definatly not the players and most definatly not the sponsers?It is the tour funds itself .Now if they dont want to pay your way how are you going to do it . Rooms and travel expensis are expensive food and tournament entry . Now you could go and win a few of the events but there is no way you are going to get enough points to make any standing if you can not bankroll the whole deal .Am I not correct in this ? From what I have seen I am . I dont see any ugly people getting a free ride but I have hopped in the car with a couple of the others and split the drive with a couple guys . I might be wrong but do you think that all this does not make a difference to a player.? Look at all the players that have slowly come up the rankings . I will not mention names but look .Look at the ones that were not so attractive make it .They had to hit and miss the big tourns for a while to get a standing and if they could not make it this year wait till next.But the young good looking people seem to have
slowly been able to be at every event that existed and be there somehow without a flaw. Thats called a Bankroll from somewhere . Heck I know a kid right now thats been with the tour and the local barplayers would eat him for lunch and did but he has a free ride and is very closed lipped about it and he is from here and has a bankroll.

Foxtrott
01-24-2004, 10:05 AM
I mean yes you are going to have the top seeds sponsered like that- but not just the travelers trying to place a name for themselves .Its like they were already chosen and they know it they are just waiting till they get the ok . Might I also add that playing the top five players all the time dont hurt either to make you a better player.

woody_968
01-24-2004, 10:10 AM
As far as I know the tour does not pay for players to travel. I have a friend that was trying to get on the womens tour, she got a local sponsor to help with some of the expenses. If you are saying that someone that is good looking will have more success finding a sponsor (backer) than this may have a small possiblity. But in most cases, if someone is going to put their money up to back someone it will be because they can play. Not because they look pretty holding a cue. The reason she had so much trouble getting on tour was the seeding that is involved in WPBA tournaments. And from what I understand that is done because the tour is being controlled by the top players, and seeding makes sure they dont see each other till late in the tourny. This could also be done because TV sponsors like to see the big names in the finals. Which is funny because (I dont remember if it was this year or last) When Karen Korr was playing for the US Open against the girl that won the qualifier to get in, seemed like everyone was rooting for the underdog.

Rich R.
01-24-2004, 10:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Foxtrott:</font><hr> Who pays for this ? It is most definatly not the players and most definatly not the sponsers?It is the tour funds itself . <hr /></blockquote>
I really don't think you have a grasp of what goes on in pro pool. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

There is no money from the Tour.

In fact, other than the haphazard UPA, there is no men's tour at all. Players, and if they have them, backers and sponsors, pay for the players to travel to tournaments and pay the entry fees. Being drop dead gorgeous or butt ugly does not matter. You have to play good pool.

Now on the women's side of the coin, there are a number of regional women's tours. Most of there tournaments include a paid entry into a WPBA tournament, as a prize for the winner. This is the $500 WPBA entry fee only and does not include travel and lodging. Again, looks are not considered.

Some of the best players have major sponsors, who pay them and their tournament expenses. Some have small sponsors, who may give them some equipment and maybe a few dollars. Others try to win as much as they can at small tournaments and gambling, to support their travel to the large tournaments. Some are on the road, gambling, constantly. Being a pro pool player is not as glamorous as other pro sports. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

If you want someone to pay your way to travel around the country and play in pool tournaments, you don't have to look good. All you have to do is play better than most everyone else. That's all. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cheesemouse
01-24-2004, 10:22 AM
Foxtrott,

I'm having a hard time understanding your point. Something is disjointed in your logic...You seem to be saying that a mysterious invisible hand is controling who wins and only those who's physical beauty rises to some unknown standard are allowed to compete and win in pro events. Now I don't know what your standards of beauty or 'attractiveness' are but I can think of some puke ugly players that can beat any other player in the world on any given day and there is no invisible hand stopping them from proving it at an opportunity they choice.

I think you should clearify your point or perhaps get plastic surgery..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Foxtrott
01-24-2004, 10:44 AM
Thanks for the reply . I may be opening a can of worms I should not as it is a very gray area and I can keep making points and eventually I think I will upset the wrong people.I do feel there is a system in place though.I do think that appearences does have alot to do with weather your gonna make it playing or not .I think the system has been designed that way . I guess thats part of life .

woody_968
01-24-2004, 10:58 AM
Foxtrott, I guess I will have to go back and re-read your posts, as you said you can keep making points but I havent seen one yet. I really dont think you are gonna hurt anyones feelings. Hell if I was a top pro player you could tell me I was ugly as a cows !#$ and I really wouldnt care /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ross
01-24-2004, 01:34 PM
No, no, you're right, Foxtrott. Don't let anybody disuade you. Keith M. was just telling me the other day how he feels guilty that he has to rely on his GQ good looks to be a top pro. Helena Thornfeldt chimed in, "I know what you mean, here I am, can't play a lick, but they make me number 3 ranked woman in the US, and just because I'm drop-dead gorgeous!" At that point, Jose Parica and Ralf Souquet walked up and overhearing the conversation piped in "Welcome to the club! I know it's not fair, but we just have to accept all of this success we have been given for being so hot-looking. We're just lucky in that department and the rest of the "average-looking" world will have to deal with it!"

Ross ~ regularly relies on his Brad Pitt looks to win matches

Popcorn
01-24-2004, 04:01 PM
Was this a test? If so I failed, because I did not understand at all what you are talking about.

Kato
01-24-2004, 04:17 PM
You're not Brad Pitts twin brother Ross? Hmmmm, I really thought you had a striking resemblance.

Kato~~~failed on tour because of my striking resemblance to Atila the Hun /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

jer9ball
01-24-2004, 04:40 PM
This foxtrot guy must be trolling. Rarely does a person hear anything so stupid. I've heard some great consipiracy theories before...and this isn't one of them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Foxtrott
01-24-2004, 08:50 PM
Rich , You go down to Smileys the month after next and you watch the whole system . It may be easy to label this a nonsense but you go down there and you take a look at the system and you watch it.Yes I do beleave there is this invisible hand that helps out certain not so good players get by for a while .I mean look at the boy from north east of you . Why the heck is he running with the big boys ? He cant run more than maybe 6 balls if he tries in straight pool and is totaly lost in nine ball. Everyone from atlantic city to virginia has taken everything the kid ever had in money games .There are a few of them there . If your saying I have no Idea then take a look for yourself .Ill be there as always .

Foxtrott
01-24-2004, 09:00 PM
Oh sweetpea I am not fugly . Actually better than average. I am just not 18 years old anymore.I dont see any pros jumping in on this post do you and shooting it down? Because it is kept quiet.On the table though I would have no problem for you to attempt to edjucate me ??????????????????????????????????????????? I also realise it is not going to be so easy to do what I want to do as per me not being 18 years old anymore.But I can do it . Its just going to cost me a ton.

JimS
01-24-2004, 09:31 PM
This has GOT 2b Bernie or Patrick in disguise.

Troy
01-24-2004, 10:58 PM
Beside being no more than a "woofer", make an attempt at an education.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Foxtrott:</font><hr> edjucate <hr /></blockquote>

Troy
01-24-2004, 11:00 PM
That must be it. Now I'm sorry I even bothered to post.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JimS:</font><hr> This has GOT 2b Bernie or Patrick in disguise. <hr /></blockquote>

tateuts
01-24-2004, 11:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Foxtrott:</font><hr> Now I have been around here and there and in my travels you can sometimes run across the big names in sponsered touraments .We all have . Now not to knock any of the pros as I would not want to lock horns with them right now but are they really just faces? I mean if you can afford to train 8 to 12 hours a day 7 days a week as we did when I played strong there is not many people that can touch you .I have noticed and not to sound Odd but all the players now days are attractive and when I have seen these players I have seen them loose to medioker players Now guys like Efrin breaks that thought but for the most part they are all attractive in one way or another .My wife says Efrin though dresses well and is a nice man and is considered attractive for TV viewers.I am concerned if the "not so" attractive players are haveing difficulty placeing as a name .I know a pro or 2 though from here and
there thing as alot of us do and have never brought up this issue so as not to offend.I have seen very strong games in my life come just out of local pool rooms in all towns.I mean if you go to anytown you will definatly find there is a player that nobody will play without weight in some way or another .Now a few of us know a few people that have alot to do with the placement of the players and everyone has seen that for the most part they are spread out like butter except for the big events . Hey business is business and I understand this but I know some pretty not so good looking players that would give some of the pros a run
for their money or maybe even worse .I respect the pros as all the training they do . Per advice from the big guy in Fla. that a few of you know I was told to train train train . In another 6 months of training constantly in my basement I will go at it again. Ive been at it a year now. I will say though I do have a concern as I willnot hustle this go round . I will shoot for the tourneys . As I am not a ugly person but not a showpice .I have concerns of will I have the same advancement oppertunities as the big guys.Look at the female pros that follow this board .No disrespect ladys and I am married with 3 kids house dog the works but you girls are knockouts especially the up and comeings . I know you guys shoot well and mean nothing bad .I mean no disrespect but this issue does bother me a little as I had planned this and worked hard to save to be able to train properly .As I am in my mid thirtys now I am not like I was if you know what I mean .Personally I think the right players out there now can be in the ranks if they work hard and save so they can afford to do this.I worked 2 jobs for 5 years to do this and have devoloped a business from the procees . It was not easy . I guess I am saying does anyone think there is a bit of truth to the matter that the attractive players get the oppertunities over the normal or not so attractive players to go to the top ?Have you guys seen players passed because of their looks?If not passed just not get that little help here and there ?All the big names in the old days were not so attractive and not so young but they definatly earned their position and could play well.What are your thoughts in this matter?I ment no dissrespect by this post to anyone but this is an issue that few will talk about but do wonder about . <hr /></blockquote>

The person most qualified to answer this question is "The Golden One" - Mr. Fast Larry. He has a "Ask Fast Larry any Question" thread on A-Z Billiards. He answers any questions and asks himeself any questions too.

Chris

Foxtrott
01-25-2004, 12:56 AM
I would suggest troy that you type your name in the search and look at your own posts prior to telling others how to spell . I use a vioce com system and then go through and correct my mistakes . It looks to me as you plain just typed it in . Who are you to judge others for the same mistakes you make ? I have made a post to ask people what they thought on the subject as it pertains to plans that I have . I did not ask for a lesson in grammer especially from someone that spells worse than me . I know I cannot spell the greatest thats why I use a voice com system . But I do know I can run a few balls . Other than a few posts here I did get edjucated feedback at other places and a few guys here have some great feelings .As everyone has blown this issue here out of the water a few have also kept their comment private.I think my final thought is that I may be a little parinoid about the situation as per the people that have repied with honset opinions to incude some of the pros .Although it may seem like a dead subject to you I have gotten some responces from people that have feelings on this matter also .I guess they also are wondering or may have wondered due to the fact they have enough thought and game to try . I really dont think you would try nor if you did you would last because you like to showboat and a showboat never is consistant. Have a nice journey through life troy .

Foxtrott
01-25-2004, 01:03 AM
I am more than willing to take a few shots and low blows on this . I mean thats why it was posted . I had a question no matter how stupid a few people may think it to be and I asked it . I was taught the the only stuipid question is the ones you do not ask . I guess you guys know the one about the only stupid answer also . To the people that have been honest and also the ones who have mailed me thank you.I more or less see I am working up an isssue that is really not in the train of thought of afew people on this board.

CarolNYC
01-25-2004, 05:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
the attractive players get the oppertunities over the normal or not so attractive players to go to the top <hr /></blockquote>
NO!
[ QUOTE ]
Have you guys seen players passed because of their looks? <hr /></blockquote>
NO!
[ QUOTE ]
not passed just not get that little help here and there <hr /></blockquote>
NO!
[ QUOTE ]
What are your thoughts in this matter <hr /></blockquote>
All you have to be is a dead-on balls accurate,kick-a$$ player-the PROS are THAT GOOD and they've earned the right to be where they are!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Foxtrott
01-25-2004, 07:09 AM
Oh Agreed Carol some of the pros are that good . Just some are not and should not be where they are .At ALL

JimS
01-25-2004, 07:21 AM
No doubt about it. Some of them didn't win to get there. They just got pro status because.......um...because..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Rich R.
01-25-2004, 08:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Foxtrott:</font><hr> Rich , You go down to Smileys the month after next and you watch the whole system . It may be easy to label this a nonsense but you go down there and you take a look at the system and you watch it.Yes I do beleave there is this invisible hand that helps out certain not so good players get by for a while .I mean look at the boy from north east of you . Why the heck is he running with the big boys ? He cant run more than maybe 6 balls if he tries in straight pool and is totaly lost in nine ball. Everyone from atlantic city to virginia has taken everything the kid ever had in money games .There are a few of them there . If your saying I have no Idea then take a look for yourself .Ill be there as always . <hr /></blockquote>

#1. I'm not familiar with "Smiley's". Where is it?

#2. I don't know know who you are referring to, as the "boy from north east" of me. Please give me a name or at least initials. PM me if you prefer not to mention it puplicly.

#3. Please read the post by Ross.

Keith Talent
01-25-2004, 08:31 AM
This is all a little bit cracked ... but there's a grain of truth in there, maybe.

Nobody can stop you from being a champion, no matter how unappealing you may be, personally, physically, whatever. But those things will cost you endorsements, maybe even encourage promoters to try to find a pretty face to knock you off your perch. And you'll get more help on the way up if people like you, too ... but you've still got to produce, eh?

Or become the Anna Kournikova of pool, I guess.

Troy
01-25-2004, 09:58 AM
Not worthy of an answer.....
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Foxtrott:</font><hr> ....edjucated....parinoid....honset... responces... <hr /></blockquote>

Detroitgirl
01-28-2004, 05:23 PM
With the exception of a very few players (who have played for a long time on tour and have maintained enough ranking points to be invited back to tournaments), the WPBA is made up of players who have earned their right to be there. So becoming 'pro'is simply based on how one plays. However, as far as sponsorship, I would have to agree that good looks (especially women) can help one get more opportunities. That, and of course the ability to market yourself. This is not to say that a top player couldn't get sponsorship without being a 'knock-out' but just that it doesn't hurt to be 'attractive'. It may be sad, but it's true.

sledhamrbrk
01-28-2004, 06:36 PM
No offense but when's the last time you took a good hard look at these three ?Pageant Bueats ? (http://www.whodunit-web.com/nickbuddyralph.html)

Not what some might consider pageant material.Thank God they can play pool !

(Best Wishes to Nick on a quick recovery)

CarolNYC
01-29-2004, 04:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
good looks (especially women) can help one get more opportunities. That, and of course the ability to market yourself <hr /></blockquote>
I also think personality and charisma play a big role-if people judge books by their cover, they're gonna miss out on alot of reading! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Carol~beauty is in the eye of the beholder! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif