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MaineEAck
04-21-2002, 05:22 PM
After watching Ted Harris at the Joss event this weekend, I have decided that I would like to start going to some small local tourneys and start doing repairs. Ted harris helped me out and gave me a lot of advice, he was really nice to me. Does anybody have any ideas on how I could make or find a cheap booth that I could get to pool rooms with not a lot of effort?
Thanks in advance for any help!

BLACKHEART
04-21-2002, 05:43 PM
Let's just suppose, that you're set up at a tournament & I bring you the shaft off of my $2000 one of a kind BLACK HEART CUE. I tell you to replace the cracked ivory ferrule & put on a hard layered tip. You chuck up the shaft, start to cut away the cracked ferrule & all of the sudden the ferrule seems to explode into 2 pieces, split down the middle, leaving only 1/2 the ferrule & 1/2 of the tenon it's glued to. If you don't know what to do, then you're not ready to work a tournament. Believe it or not this hapens often enough, that you had better be ready for it...JER

Doctor_D
04-21-2002, 05:54 PM
Good evening:

This is also a classic example of where and when liability insurance becomes a necessity. If you damage an expensive cue, and you do not have liability insurance, you will need to be in a position to pay out of pocket for the repair and/or replacement. Additionally, albeit infrequent, should a spectator be injured while you are working the potential financial liability can and will be significant. I respect and encourage your eagerness and your desire to turn your hobby into a business. However if you move to fast and are ill prepared, in-spite of your best intentions, your business will be over before it even had a chance to begin.

I also understand that this is information and/or direction which you would rather not have to deal with. I share this with you not to discourage you but to prepare you for a more profitable future. I have a significant background with years of expeirence in Risk Management - Financial and Legal Liability and as such I have seen what happens to a company and/or business when liability claims are filed in conjunction with a law suit.

Crawl first, then walk, then sprint, then run... Do it right the first time and it will last your lifetime.

Dr. D.

Q-guy
04-21-2002, 06:53 PM
Post deleted by Q-guy

MaineEAck
04-21-2002, 07:04 PM
Post deleted by MaineEAck

cheesemouse
04-21-2002, 07:09 PM
MainE,
Hang tough. Part of being involved in pool is defending yourself to others.

04-21-2002, 07:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Q-guy:</font><hr> He has no intention of taking any advice given by anyone ... He got a grain of information ... even though he has not a clue to what he is doing ... It is just for money, the worst reason to do anything ... I realize he is just a kid, but Blackheart tried to give him good advice and he replied with a wise guy remark ... I am lost as to where this kid is coming from. <hr></blockquote>

and his sneaky petes are for sale ... thanks to the encouragement of the ccb

next ... ?

04-21-2002, 07:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Q-guy:</font><hr> Post deleted by Q-guy <hr></blockquote>

Well I for one am not surprised by the deletion and your actions Mr. Q-guy.

Although you have 'behaved' yourself as of late(since having to register)you in the past have been guilty of throwing insult after insult to many here on the ccb.

You are a hypocrite of the worst kind and give us anonymous' a better chance of redeeming ourselves in the eyes of the better ccb'ers.

Have a nice thought ...

Q-guy
04-21-2002, 07:39 PM
Post deleted by Q-guy

04-21-2002, 07:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: MaineEAck:</font><hr> Post deleted by MaineEAck <hr></blockquote>

Not sure why you deleted your post young man.It was nice,sincere, and to the point.It was admired.

You should find no shame in that you are young, energetic, and an entrepreneur to boot.Keep up the good work.Your parents seem to have did a great job concerning your morals and work ethic(something missing and totally lost with today's youth)

Incidently,Dr. D posted a great piece of info to heed young man.

All the best.

04-21-2002, 07:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Q-guy:</font><hr> Does that mean you don't like me anymore? <hr></blockquote>

No.It just means that you are an egghead and a fool.

TalismanTony
04-21-2002, 08:54 PM
Being in Thailand I was asleep when most of this thread happened. I just want to say how much I appreciate Doctor_D's posts (this thread and others), In business it is essential to have someone point out potential downsides so that provisions can be made to cover all eventualities "in advance". Out of interest, how many of you guys that build cues and do repairs have liability insurance? Just in case a situation such as Jer mentioned occured.

Jordan, you have a fantastic source of invaluable information at your fingertips. Listen to all sides and try to learn as much as possible. But whatever happens believe in yourself and what you do and just keep on doing it the very best you can.

Kind regards,

BLACKHEART
04-21-2002, 10:17 PM
JORDAN.....when I tell you that you are not ready to do repair work at tournaments, I'm not being mean hearted or disrespectful, but as BRTALLY HONEST as I can be. Until you have done repairs on nearly EVERY brand &amp; kind of pool Q, you haven't enough experience to work a tournament. Often times, the simplest of repairs can turn very ugly, quickly. If the owner of that Q is standing there watching you, you are in big trouble. Until you have experienced some of these disasters &amp; have figured out how to solve them, you have no business winging it, right in front of the customer. I work as a steelworker &amp; do Q repairs &amp; Q making as a second job. I did tip &amp; ferrule repairs for about a year for the cost of the materials plus ONE DOLLAR. Before that I was a design engineer for a watch &amp; clock company &amp; painted signs for a second job. I painted peoples names on lunchboxes,mailboxes, tractors, dog houses, racecars you name it. I worked for a six pack of beer. I lettered a 60 foot boat for $35. BUT...I took the time to learn my craft. The next 60 foot boat I lettered was for $300. But by then, I had done my time &amp; was good enough to ask for more money, because I DESERVED IT. If you don't heed my advise please do this for me. When you get out of this business in about a year, I'll buy your equipment, at 1/2 price of coarse...JER

Troy
04-21-2002, 10:46 PM
My personal "libility insurance" is being capable of covering any disaster I create. To date the most severe was blowing a Moori tip with NO replacement in my stock. I had to scramble to find and buy a new Moori out of MY pocket, but that was my problem and that's how I treated it.

I am also very careful NOT to bite off more than I can chew.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TalismanTony:</font><hr> Being in Thailand I was asleep when most of this thread happened. I just want to say how much I appreciate Doctor_D's posts (this thread and others), In business it is essential to have someone point out potential downsides so that provisions can be made to cover all eventualities "in advance". Out of interest, how many of you guys that build cues and do repairs have liability insurance? Just in case a situation such as Jer mentioned occured.

Kind regards,

<hr></blockquote>

Cueless Joey
04-21-2002, 11:03 PM
I studied machining for 5 months. I must tell you, there is a lot involved in maching. I know of a local LONG time cuemaker who doesn't know how to thread properly. He has busted more than a few Predator shafts trying to create a dowel then a tenon for it. He quit doing them.
I suggest taking a machining class extensively. Nothing can replace CONFIDENCE.

Cueless Joey
04-21-2002, 11:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: BLACKHEART:</font><hr> Let's just suppose, that you're set up at a tournament &amp; I bring you the shaft off of my $2000 one of a kind BLACK HEART CUE. I tell you to replace the cracked ivory ferrule &amp; put on a hard layered tip. You chuck up the shaft, start to cut away the cracked ferrule &amp; all of the sudden the ferrule seems to explode into 2 pieces, split down the middle, leaving only 1/2 the ferrule &amp; 1/2 of the tenon it's glued to. If you don't know what to do, then you're not ready to work a tournament. Believe it or not this hapens often enough, that you had better be ready for it...JER <hr></blockquote>......
I'd trim off the rest of the tenon. Chuck up the lathe and dial it. Make sure it's turning true. Drill a hole, thread the hole. Plug it up with matching male threaded dowel. Trim it down to tenon size. Thread it and glue in threaded and capped ivory ferrule. Keeping in glue relief in all.
Or, I'd just send it to the original cuemaker. :0)

Vagabond
04-22-2002, 12:06 AM
Hello Mate,
Dr.D gave an excellent advice and at your age it may be difficult for u to understand and appreciate the TORT CLAIMS.
I recommend that u start as an apprentice under a seasoned cue repairman. Cheers
vagabond

bigalerickson
04-22-2002, 01:34 AM
Blackheart,

Your name says it all.

Would you like a cookie for all your effort? maybe some cudos of some sort. I don't know anything about mania, while he may seem possibly a bit misguided, he should at the very least be given respect for what he has, and is trying to accomplish.

Your comments were condescending, discouraging, and frankly terribly rude and uncalled for. You are a part of the problem why too many good people don't want to play pool.

And please save your breath getting mad at me, Im just here to tell the truth.

Alex

04-22-2002, 02:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bigalerickson:</font><hr> Blackheart,

Your name says it all.

Would you like a cookie for all your effort? maybe some cudos of some sort. I don't know anything about mania, while he may seem possibly a bit misguided, he should at the very least be given respect for what he has, and is trying to accomplish.

Your comments were condescending, discouraging, and frankly terribly rude and uncalled for. You are a part of the problem why too many good people don't want to play pool.

And please save your breath getting mad at me, Im just here to tell the truth.

Alex <hr></blockquote>

Hello Alex - it's kinda hard to decipher the tone of a particular post thru a keyboard.

I personally took Blackheart's post as a helping hand to Jordan certainly not as a negative.He has helped the young man several times in the past and imo is an asset to this board and pool in general.

It's possible that you may have misconstrued his stern fatherly attempt to help this young man.

Welcome to the board ... you new gambler you &lt;grin&gt;

Doctor_D
04-22-2002, 05:03 AM
Good morning Jordan:

Do not, under any circumstances, become discouraged, disheartened and/or disappointed with any of the feedback you have received here. No one, and I mean no one, wants to have their ideas and/or aspirations challenged, threatened, blocked or berated.

I would like very much to share the following with you. The clients with whom I work generally fall into Two (2) categories. The first would be the established company which has fallen into financial distress and is on the verge of bankruptcy and the second would be the emerging enterprise seeking to acquire venture capital and establish operations. With each of these types of clients I am nothing short of brutal in regards to the challenges that I place upon them. My logic, which has been reinforced through years of experience (I have been working in financial management and corporate operations for 27 years now), is simple. If my client can survive my brutal assaults on their business plans, budgets, forecasts, revenue models and marketing plans; in addition to how their organization is structured and their product and/or service is delivered to the marketplace, then they will be able to survive any and all challenges being placed upon them. I challenge my clients so that they can be in a position to challenge themselves, as well as to respond rather then react to the challenges being placed upon them by customers, lenders, venders and the like.

Established companies fall into financial distress for a myriad of reasons which range from paying too much attention to sales and not enough attention to operations and financial management. These companies also fall victim to bankruptcies because they grew too fast too soon with resources and skill sets which were insufficient for where they were heading and ultimately found themselves. You need a solid foundation upon which to build a business. Pay attention and devote the time and energy needed to laying the required foundation and you will have a business, which will provide you with rewards above and beyond the monetary gains you will enjoy, for years and years to come. Question, have you ever heard or read the following? Why is it that there is never enough time to do it right the first time, yet there is always enough time to do it over later?

Preparation, for any eventuality, will provide you with the skills and resources you will need to succeed. Succeed, not only in your evolving business but, in every aspect of your life. Develop a skill and then perfect it. Then, as you develop and perfect your skills, continue to build upon them. There are NO short cuts. Take the time to do it right the first time and you will develop a solid reputation which will precede you wherever you go.

Dr. D.

MaineEAck
04-22-2002, 05:57 AM
ok, i have to go to school, and I will post more then. The post I deleted had something I still want said. Thanks to the advice of Dr. D, Blackheart, Troy, and others. I will not be doing tourneys so soon. Although I am not sure if all these people who talk about machine schooling know that my father has been working as the top paid machinist at Mid State Machine for about 20 years now... He helps me with everything, and I appreciate all the help from everyone...
Got to run talk to you guys later..

Doctor_D
04-22-2002, 06:01 AM
Good morning:

Excellent news Jordan. Yes, your father can and will provide you with priceless knowledge and information. His direction and guidance, coupled with all that you will learn from the cue makers who are willing and able to provide you with any form of assistance and/or apprenticeship, will lead you to a successful career.

Dr. D.

Rich R.
04-22-2002, 06:05 AM
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Anonymous:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;
Hello Alex - it's kinda hard to decipher the tone of a particular post thru a keyboard.

I personally took Blackheart's post as a helping hand to Jordan certainly not as a negative.He has helped the young man several times in the past and imo is an asset to this board and pool in general.

It's possible that you may have misconstrued his stern fatherly attempt to help this young man.

Welcome to the board ... you new gambler you &lt;grin&gt; &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I too took Blackheart's post as Jer trying to give some good practical advise to Jordan. Although I commend Jordan for his effort, he has to learn to walk before he can run.
Just picture yourself at a tournament and the ferrule on your $2k cue breaks, just about mid way through the tournament. You have a break in your matches and go to Jordan to have your cue fixed and something terrible happens. Although it may not be his fault, if he can not fix it right away, I don't believe may players would be too understanding.
Rich R.~~~listens to all advise and takes some of it.

MaineEAck
04-22-2002, 06:11 AM
So, How do I know when I am ready? I mean, couldn't anything go wrong with any cue repair person? NOT JUST ME If I make any mistake the first thing I will do is try to fix it, If I cannot, I will buy them a new shaft. Simple as that. I will do No work on butts, For now I need to build up my supply of Driver Pins for all the different shaft taps out there. Does anyone know a place that sells them? Or do most cue makers make their own? Thanks in advance for any help.

cueball1950
04-22-2002, 06:19 AM
Jordan;;; call mike webb and simply ask mike if you can apprentice under him at some joss tour events next year to learn. mike is a nice guy and i would not be surprised if he helped you. he likes to teach people who want to learn the craft and are serious about it. you should have introduced yourself at the event in chelmsford. i was there. poolfan was there as well as steve lipsky.anyway,,the only way to really learn is from someone who is honest and reputable and does not cut corners. and that is mike webb...........................mike

Doctor_D
04-22-2002, 06:23 AM
Good morning Jordan:

An apprenticeship, with a well respected craftsman, is priceless. Make the effort, whether with Mike Webb or any other suitable custom sue maker, to learn your craft from the bottom up. Then, when your mentor believes that you are ready, you will be kicked out of the nest to go it on your own.

Dr. D.

Rich R.
04-22-2002, 06:40 AM
Jordan, you have not been working on cues all that long. At this point, I think the supply you have to build most is experience. Ambition and energy will only get you so far. There is no substitute for knowledge and experience. JMHO. Rich R.

BLACKHEART
04-22-2002, 07:56 AM
Cueless Joey wins the prize for knowing how to make this repair,but the post was to illustrate to Jordan that there are LOTS of problems that come up in Q repair that he hasn't encountered in his 2 months of owning a lathe...JER

BLACKHEART
04-22-2002, 08:06 AM
Thanks, "bigalerickson" for the input &amp; welcome to the CCB...JER

MaineEAck
04-22-2002, 09:04 AM
I am asking webb right now about maybe helping out a a joss event some time. I have heard that he is not allowed to teach b/c he promised he would not. But we will see. Do you teach people BLACKHEART? now that I think about it, you have actualy tought me a lot already, and I thank you for that.

heater451
04-22-2002, 09:55 AM
Maineeack,

I think everyone is more worried about the particular tournament scenario.

Even if you will make good on a repair gone bad, you may not be able to do it right then. And some guy who is ready to go into competition right then may not be able to deal with an accident involving his equipment.

It just helps to have experience with varying equipment, as you never know when something requires a special tool, or a special 'touch', until you've dealt with it a few times.

Anyway, good luck with however you go.

(Also, you might want to post your question about pins in another thread, so that it isn't buried in this one.)

MaineEAck
04-22-2002, 09:59 AM
Alright, thanks... I will make another post after school as I am in Internet/Webpage Design now. Even though I could teach the class haha... Thanks guys!

BLACKHEART
04-22-2002, 10:22 AM
Since I live in the midwest &amp; you live on the east coast "teaching" is out of the question. However "mentoring" is something else. As long as you are willing to learn, I am here to help, with any advice I can give.Continue to e-mail me any time...JER

MaineEAck
04-22-2002, 10:25 AM
thank you very much, I will E-mail you with all my questions, I am always willing to learn, and listen... Thanks for the support

WaltVA
04-22-2002, 10:26 AM
Jordan - I think what JER and others are stressing is that there is a difference between shop work and tournament work. A mistake in the shop means you can consult your Dad or JER, find a solution, and present the repaired cue to the owner with no problem. A mistake at a tournament bench, with the anxious owner watching you, is a lot different and can destroy your reputation before it's well established.

Sometimes you need to know that one little trick to get out of a jam, and experience is the only teacher. You just don't want your learning experience to be on stage in the spotlight. Going slow and working with someoneas an apprentice sounds like a good plan. JMHO

Best wishes, Walt in VA

MaineEAck
04-22-2002, 12:40 PM
I just hope I can find someone to help teach me, there are not any willing cue makers in my area. The only guy who does repairs works on a wood lathe an can only do tips

MaineEAck
04-22-2002, 12:51 PM
Still no word from Webb, I talked on E-mail this morning... I will let you guys know whats going on...

Doctor_D
04-22-2002, 01:26 PM
Good afternoon Jordan:

Your search may require you to do some traveling while off from school during the Summer. If NO one who is local to you is available to teach then maybe a week or two on the road would solve part of your problem.

Dr. D.

04-22-2002, 01:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bigalerickson:</font><hr> Blackheart,

Your name says it all. Your comments were condescending, discouraging, and frankly terribly rude and uncalled for. You are a part of the problem why too many good people don't want to play pool.

And please save your breath getting mad at me, Im just here to tell the truth.

Alex <hr></blockquote>

big,

that's the problem with newbees. sometimes they run off with wild and crazy pronouncments without having a clue what the abackround and history are.

j.e.r.(blackheart) has been working with the kid for many months mentoring him here and by e-mail.

sometimes kids don't want to hear what you have to say but you still need to say it. just the way things are.

anyway, don't question blackhearts motivation. he's already practically adopted the kid.

dan

MaineEAck
04-22-2002, 01:48 PM
I 2nd that! that is very true, Jer was only letting me know what I needed to hear, He has been well more then nice to me, and has helped me with so much already, When I see an E-mail from him, I know it's a 4 page novel on some new repair subject... He is the best!

bigalerickson
04-22-2002, 02:05 PM
I eagerly withdraw my judgement of blackheart, I clearly did not see the whole situation, and was a bit too tired to be vocalizing my opinion at 4 am.

-Biggie

MaineEAck
04-22-2002, 02:19 PM
I hope that everyone knows how nice of a guy the Jer really is, He has been sooo sooo helpful to me. He deserves the good name he has in the cue Biz

04-22-2002, 02:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bigalerickson:</font><hr> I eagerly withdraw my judgement of blackheart, I clearly did not see the whole situation, and was a bit too tired to be vocalizing my opinion at 4 am.

-Biggie <hr></blockquote>

since you're kinda new you might not know that it's a rule that when you post something dumb you have to send all the other posters $5 each. just post your bank i.d. and pin and we'll deduct it. it's an honour system thing.

dan...trust me

MaineEAck
04-22-2002, 02:32 PM
But doesn't the Thread Starter get a Customary $50.00 I am sure of it! haha

TalismanTony
04-22-2002, 08:29 PM
Hi Jordan,

While starting in your repair business you will make some mistakes and I am sure that you would put them right or compensate the owner if that was not possible. So before you make the mistakes, check out liability insurance, that way if you have to buy a new shaft for a mistake you may make, you will not be forced out of business before ever getting going. I am not sure how much this costs but you should check it out.

The other point made here is that a tourney is not the place to be "learning" from mistakes. It is far too high-pressured, just the additional pressure could cause you to make mistakes. At a tourney your customers would be impatient and intolerant of any mistakes, damage to their equipment could be a disaster.

The apprenticeship idea is an excellent one. That has traditionally been the way we have passed on trade skills for centuries. As Jer pointed out, while he can give advice you really need to be standing next to the man while he works. I am sure many US cue makers would not mind someone coming to learn from them, if the person was sincere and dedicated to it.

Keep at it.

bigalerickson
04-22-2002, 08:47 PM
I would gladly pay anyone who posted in this the 5 dollar fee... as it appears it is my duty.

However due to all the problems with security on the internet these days. And seeing the rising cost of stamps these days, mail just simply isn't effective. So, the only conclusion I see is if anyone wants to come see me personally, there'll be a crisp 5 spot waiting for you!

bigalerickson -
the only thing that can prevent our dreams of tomorrow are our doubts of today. Proceed with active faith and confidence!

Chris Cass
04-22-2002, 09:32 PM
Me too Al? Ok, I'll see ya tomorrow.

Yippeee,

C.C.~~claims rep for the CCB. after collecting for everyone, meet me in Vegas for the money. I'll be the short bald old nice guy at the $100. blackjack table or craps table. I'll be the one with spaghetti sauce on his shirt. LMAO singing "Where have all the greenbacks gone, long time pa-aa-sing.

rackmup
04-23-2002, 05:42 AM
Merely post your VISA account number (don't forget the EXACT spelling of your name as it appears on the card AND the expiration day!)

Just trying to help.

Regards,

Ken

ted harris
04-23-2002, 11:00 PM
Walt,
There is definitely a difference in tournament work, and shop work. Tournament work is far more complicated than shop work. At the tournament you are forced to improvise, ad-lib, create solutions to complex situations under extreme pressure. It stimulates reasoning and thought. Myself, and very few others have developed our reputations soley by learning and working tournaments. I personally have had perhaps dozens of situations with the owner of their prized possession watching. I find that when a situation appears, and then is corrected with sheer determination and will, that it inspires an even greater confidence. My whole learning experience has been on stage and in the spotlight. The really refreshing part is that my learning experience has just begun. I would recommend that Jordan do tournaments if that is what he wishes.

ted harris
04-24-2002, 12:00 AM
Jer,
Or, instead of cutting away the ferrule, you could heat up the ferrule with a heat gun and unscrew the ferrule. I would like to thank another traveling cue repairman, Joe Blackburn for that one. When I started working tournaments, I had no clue what to do. Everything I learned, I learned at tournaments. I wouldn't trade my experiences if I could. If I should end up in a situation with a cue repair, I will find a way to fix it, replace it, or anything else I have to do to make it right. I do not think that Jordan, or anyone else for that matter, should live their life based on what might go wrong. We all make mistakes, and the ones that persevere through adversity are the ones that find knowledge. I say we let Jordan decide if he wants to seek knowledge. He has a great idea. I can attest to that.

BLACKHEART
04-24-2002, 08:29 AM
A little propane torch is in my shop for just that purpose. Good to hear from you again, hope things are going well for you. If I remember rightly, the 1st time I heard from you, it was when you were just getting started &amp; I gave you a source for Hustler blanks. Then I heard from you when you developed your brass bushings. I was doing business as "J &amp; J CUSTOM POOL CUES" then...JER

MaineEAck
04-24-2002, 12:11 PM
My Dad is bringing me home 2 letter stamps that are made out of metal(J and L) and I think i will heat them up and put JL on my sneaky petes... do you guys think that will look alright? I will take some pics and show you tomorrow! Is this how Tim Scruggs does it?

ted harris
04-24-2002, 03:57 PM
Jordan,
You really do not have to heat them up. You can just put them against the cue, and wack them with a hammer. You will want to practice on other scrap wood first. Then if you want, you can put some crayon in the indentations.

MaineEAck
04-24-2002, 06:38 PM
ok, i will try that also, and see how it looks... Thanks for teh great idea... did you get my E-mail? I think something may be wrong with my E-mail as some people don't get them