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jonmartn
01-25-2004, 06:24 PM
I am in the market for my first pool table. I am currently looking at Connelly and American Heritage. I am also going to look into Kasson, Brunswick, and Olhausen. I am looking to spend around $2000 on the table. I'm a novice player and enjoy the game, but am realistic that I will never be much more than a recreational player. Any input that anyone has about tables would be appreciated.

JimS
01-25-2004, 07:15 PM
Hi,

Please don't think me rude but....

We are constantly being asked this question and you can answer a lot of your questions if you try the search function prior to posting then come back to posting for more specific questions regarding ???

jonmartn
01-25-2004, 08:01 PM
OK, what I meant to ask is about the different manufacturers. I have done research as far as slate thickness and type (Italian, etc), wood type and construction. What I am looking for is any input as far as which brands have questionable reliablity, value etc.

I have read previous posts and opinions seem to be high concerning Olhausen and Brunswick, I was just wondering if people have opinions on American Heritage, Connelly or Kasson tables.

I realize that this is probably a frequent question, but I thought that any additional input that I could get would not hurt. Thanks.

kyhogan
01-25-2004, 09:41 PM
AHHH John let me first welcome you to HELL (whoops I forgot the P). And lets start off by cautioning you here. Many folks confuse quality with peformance. You and I are in the same boat. We want a quality table. Many of the fellows here are past quality. They want a performance model (see Ford makes both the ESCORT and the MUSTANG). And many would tell you don't buy the escort it wont hold the curves right etc. etc. But hey it will drive 200K miles and never need a tune up.

Enough with the car analogy. For 2000(or less) you can buy a nice Kasson or American Heritage all wood but they probably have less expensive production methods(cheaper fasteners) and depending on the dealer you may not get 1" slate. For 2000 or less you can buy an entry level Brunswick or Olhasuen and while these companies claim to have superior construction you will have to sacrifice by taking lesser products (laminates and veeneers or particle board and plywood).
Most of the companies claim to be American made but the reality is only a small part of the table is done in the US and most is outsourced. Despite what any salesperson says the lower model Brunswick and Olhausen do not have the same componets like cushions etc.

I have seen Kasson and American Heritage side by side and they appear to have similar construction and both appears to be good quality for the money. Kasson has at least some recognition on this board with a few stating what they have seen is solid. ((Stay away from the Meridian the salesman will tell you it's American Heritage and it's not. I had a good conversation with an American Heritage rep and he stated they meerly import that table for the Dealers to have a cheap table, the don't put the American Heritage label on it and don't give it a lifetime warranty).

I've seen Brunswick and Olhausen side by side. Brunswick looked better than Olhausen but I would not touch anything not in their solid wood line of tables. One I only want solid hard wood and two beyond slate nothing else about them is like the upper models. Except they have been around the longest and there is a good chance they will be here when your much older. (thats a nice plus with their warranty).

Now with that said they will all tell you that you can save money by buying a used table (of course bare in mind you will add 200 for set up cost).

If you want to spend 2000 and get the best all around hardwood table new then the American Heritage Boston or Kasson Deville would be my choice, and you should be able to get it the deville for 1900. If you wanna drive to atlanta to pick it up I can give you information for a dealer for 1300 but remember it will cost another 200 for local set up.

Now I'm past that and have gotten sucked into the world of buying used. AHHHHHHH Still trying to figure out if I'm gaining anything.

logixrat
01-25-2004, 10:04 PM
The short & sweet is I think low to mid priced Brunswicks are junk, Olhausens are nice but you will probably need to spend $2500+ to get the quality you will appreciate in the long haul, unsure of the Connelly as I haven't been able to lay hands on one, and I strongly RECOMMEND the Kasson table - they are built right & priced affordable. Others frequently recommend Gandy & Diamond Pro's. I haven't played or seen either, but both usually get great reviews. You might check them out...the only thing is I'm not sure they are in your price range.

And here are a few recent threads discussing tables:

Kasson or Zbilliards (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&Number=119004&page=4&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

Golden West pool tables input needed (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&page=6&view=collapsed& sb=5&o=)

Home Table (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&Number=119761&page=2&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

Should I Buy It (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&Number=119121&page=1&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

Buying new table - Brunswick vs. Connelly (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&Number=117093&page=1&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

What's wrong with the cheap brunswick (contender) (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&Number=120235&page=0&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

What is better Gandy or Brunswick (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&Number=120457&page=0&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

A message from Brunswick (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&Number=120470&page=0&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

logixrat
01-25-2004, 10:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote kyhogan:</font><hr> AHHH John let me first welcome you to HELL (whoops I forgot the P). And lets start off by cautioning you here. Many folks confuse quality with peformance. You and I are in the same boat. We want a quality table. Many of the fellows here are past quality. They want a performance model (see Ford makes both the ESCORT and the MUSTANG). And many would tell you don't buy the escort it wont hold the curves right etc. etc. But hey it will drive 200K miles and never need a tune up.

Now I'm past that and have gotten sucked into the world of buying used. AHHHHHHH Still trying to figure out if I'm gaining anything. <hr /></blockquote>

Do I detect a little bit of sarcasm there kyhogan!? Hehehe. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif Although I will agree...you have went through quite a spill trying to select the "perfect" table. You have a great deal of patience.

In regards to your specific situation, I would buy that NEW Kasson table for $1300, and setup/level the table myself or spend the extra $200 if you don't want to mess with it. That is a GREAT deal. Heck, they are about $1900 in my area with the setup included. Even with a used table, you will probably spend $500-$1000, depending on specific make/model and condition, plus the setup fees if you decide to go that way. You can start to see how your savings is dwindling. I guess it just depends how hard pressed you are for cash. In my scenario, I bought my used table for $750 and did the setup myself. If I could have spent $1500 for the BRAND NEW Kasson table, and not have to strain my back, I would have probably did it.

Either way, good luck on the deal. I know you are still researching the different tables. And you are right, each detail is intimately explored on this board. When you are playing, your mind isn't really thinking about the bolts used for the rails, or other details like that. Instead you are focused on potting balls and running the rack out. It is important to get a good quality table, but don't forget the fun of the game is why you are doing it to begin with.

Good luck!!

kyhogan
01-26-2004, 06:48 AM
It seems 2500 is the breaking point if you spend 2500 you can get quality and performanc in most of the brands. I know someone has given me prices for Diamond and they are around 2500.

kyhogan
01-26-2004, 09:45 AM
HUm a large majority of the posts were started by ME /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

kyhogan
01-26-2004, 02:21 PM
OK I have made a decision based upon price, style, and location.

2 year old Kasson Deville $600. OK Mostly price.

And if I ever come across a $40,000 dollar table for $300 bucks I will be able to afford that one too.

[/url]Buying used sounds like a whole lot of hassle to me and I dont have time for all that. <hr /></blockquote>

OK you all may begin the razzing!

logixrat
01-26-2004, 03:32 PM
Well, you know how well I like the Kasson's so you got my vote, for whatever it's worth. And $600 sounds like a good deal as well. When you go look at the table, be sure and carefully inspect the obvious things such as cloth wear, condition of the rails &amp; pockets, responsiveness of the cushions &amp; overall "feel" of the table. You might also use the diamonds and hit the cue ball around to see if the hit "aligned" or not. Also, check by the head spot where you rack to see if there are any divets in the slate. Not a big deal if there are, but you will want to bondo those in when you re-setup the table in YOUR house.

Take a flash light with you, and don't be afraid to crawl under the table. Inspect the frame to make sure it is in good condition, and that everything is "tight". Also, look closely at the slate and ensure it is slate and not a synthetic product. Use a tape measure to confirm the EXACT thickness of the slate (that whole 3/4", 7/8" vs. 1" thick deal). Also, check for any hair line cracks or chipping. While down there, make sure the legs are in good condition as well.

If possible, I suggest playing a few games on the table before making an offer. Just get familiar with it, and know it feels good. Never let the seller see you drool. Always offer a little lower, but REASONABLE so you don't torque them off. Perhaps condition to the sale on the slate not being cracked/chipped from the top side when you remove the cloth to move the table.

As previously discussed, don't put much value on accessories unless they have something special like Centennial balls, or a custom cue. On the other hand, don't get excited and run off and leave the "freebies" like the triangles, chalk &amp; brushes. Although cheap, you will need them.

Take at least one friend with you to help disassemble and move the table. Also, a socket set (or wrench set), screwdrivers and staple remover will prove useful. Also, extra blankets to wrap the slate in during transit. Many report successful moves laying the slate down horizontally, but I did mine vertically (at the last minute) and I think it rode a little better. Just take it easy going home, and try to pick the route with the least amount of bumps.

Once you get her home &amp; setup, take a few pics and post back about the overall experience. I am sure you will be thrilled. Speaking of pics, here are a few of my table:

Pic 1 (http://members.cox.net/nolimits007/images/table1.jpg) | Pic 2 (http://members.cox.net/nolimits007/images/table2.jpg) | Pic 3 (http://members.cox.net/nolimits007/images/table3.jpg) | Pic 4 (http://members.cox.net/nolimits007/images/table4.jpg)

Good luck &amp; enjoy!!

SPetty
01-26-2004, 03:37 PM
Hi logixrat,

So, is that table in your kitchen, or is there a kitchen in your game room? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Oh, and cute puppy!

SPetty
01-26-2004, 03:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote kyhogan:</font><hr> OK I have made a decision <hr /></blockquote>Hi kyhogan,

It's about damn time! hahaha /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

If you hang around the CCB for awhile, it'll now be your job to answer all the new questions about new tables. You did a very fine job answering this one! Keep up the good work!

kyhogan
01-26-2004, 04:03 PM
I believe that is his kitchen, family room, and bedroom because it'a a one room efficiency. (now you know he is a die hard pool player) Fortunately he has the dining table and mattress top conversion kit. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

woody_968
01-26-2004, 04:22 PM
Sounds like ya got a great deal /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

kyhogan
01-26-2004, 04:45 PM
Dang it Balls and cues etc thats what it doesn't come with.

Ok now joining the first table question. What is a good set of first balls. ((NOT YOUR ULITMATE STUFF)) Just ones that will roll straight. Instead of the junk the dealer wants to sell you for $150-250 whats better to get.

kyhogan
01-26-2004, 05:20 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3657059116&amp;category=21 210&amp;sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&amp;rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3656185121&amp;category=21 210&amp;sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&amp;rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3655658903&amp;category=21 210

Any of these look like decent starter kits.

woody_968
01-26-2004, 05:55 PM
As far as what they cost, that depends on what quality you want to get. For Super Pro balls, you could spend anywhere from $115 to $160 depending on where you buy them. You can get some really good deals on ebay, thats where I will be getting mine from. If you want the name of the guy I will be getting mine from let me know, Ill look it up when I get home. You could buy cheaper ones to get you started, thats what I did. But of course now I have a fifteen ball that is so far out of ballance it makes 90 degree turns when slowing down, and will actually wobble when if finds its final resting place.

Another store I have had good luck with is www.billiardsexpress.com (http://www.billiardsexpress.com) they have good prices on most things with speedy shipment.

If you just do some looking on the net you will find reasonable prices on many things. spending the 200 for the one from the dealer might be worth it if its a good set of balls and stuff. But if they are cheap, take that money and by some super pros.

kyhogan
01-26-2004, 06:38 PM
Hum set of balls $100

Set of Cues $100

Bridge, triangle, etc.

Hum that used brunswick including everything for a 1000 is sounding better.

kyhogan
01-26-2004, 07:14 PM
Are pro series royal crown balls ok or junk.

woody_968
01-26-2004, 08:00 PM
I dont really know about the Royal Crown balls. As for me and my last experience with cheaper balls I will either get the Aramith Super Pro's or a set of Centinials.

As far as cues go, again you should be able to find some on ebay for less than 100.

ras314
01-26-2004, 09:14 PM
Like the fan, but is that enough table light?

Nice place.

logixrat
01-26-2004, 10:34 PM
Thanks ras314, it works pretty decent for us. But you are right about the ceiling fan...even though it's nice, there isn't quite enough light in there. I've been think'n of adding a "can light" on that one end of the pool table, or maybe having my electrician friend re-center the fan over the table or just remove it altogether and put up a table light. Kinda depends if we get an offer on our house soon, as we have it up for sale.

Hehe, but let me clarify a few thing about my setup. The pool table is in our 2nd living room. Prior to putting the table in there, we had a traditional boring setup. But it was nice, as that is our kitchen in the background, and family events everyone always gathered in that smaller room. Our main living room is about 20' x 20' and is up front, but I couldn't talk the wife into that one!

To get a better perception of how the house is actually laid out, feel free to take a "virtual tour". We got the house listed for sale, and this was a "perk" to help it sell faster. If interested in buying, by all means contact me - but the table goes with me!!

Virtual Tour - 2nd Living/Kitchen/Master Bedroom (http://media.homestore.com/HB7P6PEP-2-VIRTUAL_TOUR.htm?_MLSNAME=tulsa&amp;_MLSID=321141&amp;poe= realtor)

Virtual Tour - Main Living/Dining/Glimpse into the Kitchen/2nd Living Area (http://media.homestore.com/HB7P6PEP-3-VIRTUAL_TOUR.htm?_MLSNAME=tulsa&amp;_MLSID=321141&amp;poe= realtor)

And thanks SPetty, that is is our beloved weiner dog Spencer. We also got a black Sharpei, named Sha-Kill, but he was chowing down and didn't have time to look up and sneak himself into the picture! Sha-Kill is my dog, and I love him to death...unfortunately he's getting to be an old man now.

In regards to the question about pool balls, you will hear it said 10x over...the Brunswick Centennials are the best! But they come with a price tag as well. About $180, give or take for a BRAND NEW set. Might find them cheaper if you dig online, and your local dealer will probably charge ALOT more for them. 2nd best choice is the Super Aramith Pro Balls, and they are about $140 for the set. My table came with just a regular set of Aramith Premium balls, which are economically priced at $80 or so. It seems the dealers around where I live package that set or quality with most of their packages. I imagine your dealer does something similar. Personally if I had to buy them out of pocket, I would have cheesed and bought the cheapest set I could find and then saved my $$ to get the Centennials. If I had the $$ up front, I'd go straight to the Centennials. Not only do they roll great, and very, very precise...but I like shooting them better. They appear brighter to me, and they have black circles around the numbers (similar to the Magnums) that I really like.

As far as the packages you noted, I'm not a huge fan of them but they do get you started. If I didn't have ANYTHING to shoot with and couldn't afford to buy the pieces individually or spruce up for a GOOD package, then I'd probably buy that $50 set with the Aramith balls. Then upgrade your components as your $$ flow and skill level increases.

But hey, that's just me.

Nightstalker
01-26-2004, 10:38 PM
I have Aramith Premiums and they work great. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

kyhogan
01-27-2004, 04:53 PM
Thats a nice house but it was better imagery thinking of the one room efficiency with the mattress top conversion kit.