View Full Version : Opinion on throwing a game....
01-26-2004, 08:39 AM
I had a discussion yesterday with a friend who organises pool tourneys. Last week, a player proposed his opponent to let him win for 20$ so he would finnish third, cash in third place monies and remain with the same ranking (our 1st and 2nd place always go up a rank making it tougher everytime they win).
The reason he did this is there's only a few weeks left and he's fighting for the tour money. They pay a nice amount of cash for 1st thru 10th at the end of the season. It's like a league and tourneys mixed together.
In anycase, what do you think the T.D. should do about this.
1 - Leave it as it is, it's of no concern.
2 - Strip the player of his money for that tournement
3 - Warn the player that if you throw a game again he's out of the tour ?
4 - Throw the players involved off the tour ?
01-26-2004, 08:43 AM
01-26-2004, 08:45 AM
It is cheating, plain and simple.
Disqualification from the current tournament with forfeiture of ALL money and a warning on being removed from future competition.
01-26-2004, 09:24 AM
Well the player proposed it...did the other player take the offer? If so then 4, if the other player declined and told the TD then throw the offerer out.
This also happened seems like every year at ACUI regional college tourney. Schools would send 5+ guys who were split apart into different round-robin groups. They recently went to top 4 or 5 out of each group went on to the Bracket tournament the next day. But before that it went by total games from everyone and the top 32 would play the next day. Well someone could just dump a few games to another player to get the bubble-guys games up to a point where he would make it to the next day and kick someone else out. heard of it happeneing every year until they changed it.
01-26-2004, 09:34 AM
That was in the finals of the loser bracket. The two players were ranked 8 and 5. Wich mean player A has to win 8 games and player B as to win 5 to go thru.
Player A (rank 8) offered player B (ranked 5) to let him thru for 20$. This way player A finnishes third and do not get popped to rank 9. This (staying an 8) will allow him to keep finnishing high in the tournies keeping his position on the tour (I think he's first or second).
Player B accepted the deal, got thru, won the tourney and paid off.
Keep the comments coming as I intend to print this thread off and let the offenders read it !
in that case tar and feather them..
01-26-2004, 09:50 AM
Well if that was the case then Player A was intentionally sandbagging and should be dropped. Player B was probably looking at it from more of a monetary standpoint seeing that extra $20, but still was aiding the sandbagging. How did they get found out? Did a friend squeal on them or was player B boasting about it?
01-26-2004, 10:32 AM
Cheating is Cheating. Both parties involved should be disqualified and thrown out. I can't even believe that there is a discussion regardng this. Personally, I would never want to win anything if I hadn't earned it. I always give it my best effort and expect nothing less from my opponent. It was the sandbagging stuff going on in our local APA League that caused me to quit. IMO, victory without integrity is completely hollow.
01-26-2004, 11:01 AM
If they actually went through with it, both should be DQ, and if you decide to let them play in future events, I would probably bump up their handicap as well. (personally, I would DQ for the rest of the year, and then think long and hard about letting them back next year) Trying to "work" the system to your advantage is simply cheating, nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn't put up with it. Play to win, and if you do win, live with the new handicap. That's the whole idea!
01-26-2004, 11:10 AM
4-4-4-4-4-4- and if that is not enough give him afew5-5-5-5- I look at it as cheating your fellow pool players!!!! hate a cheater,may the best man win that is my out look on it. that is my final answer. STICK
01-26-2004, 11:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote UWPoolGod:</font><hr> Well if that was the case then Player A was intentionally sandbagging and should be dropped. Player B was probably looking at it from more of a monetary standpoint seeing that extra $20, but still was aiding the sandbagging. How did they get found out? Did a friend squeal on them or was player B boasting about it? <hr /></blockquote>
Actually it's player B (rank 5) who paid the 20$ to go thru. Player A offered him this option instead of playing him all out and beating him.
The way I found out was simply because player A kinda bragged about it. I was playing my friend (the TD) and player A showed up. I asked him how he fared in the tourney saturday, because I know he's fighting to be in first and that's when he simply told be he finnished third and had a big grin on.
I joke that he sandbag not to get his rating up, and that's when he told me he got paid 20$ to throw the game and let the B player thru.
I told him in the discussion that if I were in charge he would at least get warned about it, but I would probably throw him out the tour. He said he did nothing wrong, if he wants to lose that's his right. He said he knew that if he won he would get boost to a 9 and it would make the next few tournement tougher to score points. So he decided to hold his game and put number on his total a little at the time.
I tried to make him realise that by doing so he affected the integrity of the game. That other players would probably not tolerate that. I told him that he has a right to his opinion but I also had mine and that I thougth he was wrong doing it.
I told him, if you wanna hold on and finnish third, fine, but don't let anyone know about it and keep it for yourself. Bragging about that will only irratate other players.
With $6000 up for grabs, a similar thing happened at a USPPA event in Reno in Dec '02.
Here's a Press Release link :: http://www.azbilliards.com/2000pressrelease.cfm?id=81
01-26-2004, 12:06 PM
Throw him off the tour, no other option-
01-26-2004, 02:37 PM
I take it this is an in-house handicap tournament? Just keep in mind this is pool you are talking about and you will understand that anything goes. Why should it upset you - it is just the next level up from sandbagging in the APA.
The same thing goes on here where a few players decide who will win when they meet in the tournament and then split the winnings. They don't want the best of the group to keep winning because then his handicap would go up too high.
And of course these same guys are always the first to complain that someone else is handicapped too low. None of them have jobs that amount to anything and they depend on pool winnings to get them thru from week to week.
I used to feel sorry for them, now I just take them for the bums they are and like in the movie would just as soon stick my cue in that hole in their throat.
Of course if you are referring to a legit amateur tournament, or higher level tournament, then conduct like this should be in their by-laws and the players dealth with accordingly.
01-26-2004, 02:50 PM
At the very least something should be said to each player in private. Then hold a tournament meeting before the next tournament and let everyone know that it will not be allowed (without giving up names).
Then nominate both parties for the bonehead of the year award! Im not supporting what was done, just pointing out that each party was, ummmm, stupid. Player A, if wanting to do this, should have never said anything and dumped quietly. Player B should have realised that if player A wants to win the championship would probably dump anyway, so why should he pay him to do so?
Next they need to look at the way things are currently handicaped. If player B felt that player A must dump for him to win, then the handicaps are not giving player B a fair chance to win.
01-26-2004, 02:51 PM
For that I would have to differentiate in-house tournement and legit amateur ?!@?!
Tho it is handicaped, it has players from A to AAA level. It is usually a field of 25 to 40 players and they come from different club. Is it sanctionned by the local federation of billiard, wich I believe is a member of the BCA (no sure tho)...
In any case, it doesn't really upset me, but I could see a player failing to make the final by a game if he plays the player that throwed the game and didn't get his rating go up ! That could upset him .
01-26-2004, 03:12 PM
Just lke in other sports, dare I give the example baseball, players have been ousted for dumping and gambling. The more noteables being Joe Jackson and WhiteSox team mates, and the more recent, Pete Rose saga. All these players were banned for life from baseball.
In fairness, these two players should be banned from this particular tour or tournament, permantly. My vote goes to suggestion #4.
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