PDA

View Full Version : Break Cue / weight



SPetty
01-29-2004, 01:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Things I've learned from CCB:</font><hr>There's been a trend to lighter break cues because a lighter cue can be moved forward more quickly, and therefore can be made to travel at a higher rate of speed than a heavier cue, resulting in a higher rate of speed for the cue ball.

There's a suggestion to back off of the speed on the break for purposes of accuracy.

The weight of a heavier cue may help the pendulum swing of the stroking arm to deviate less, thereby increasing hit accuracy.<hr /></blockquote>Those are all thoughts I believe I've seen here.

I recently bought a heavy cue. It was too pretty and too nice of a deal to pass up, and I bought it without touching it. (No lectures, please... ) Once I got it, I realized just how heavy it was, and it's not balanced like I'm accustomed to - seems "butt heavy". I could hardly make a ball with it.

So I thought, maybe I'll replace my break cue with it. So I set up a rack and took a swing at it. Man, I'd forgotten how exhiliarating and powerful you feel stroking and thrusting a long heavy rod... um, but I digress...

Although I haven't noticed anything wrong with my lighter break cue, breaking with this heavy cue just feels more ...fun? And, I wonder if it's possibly more accurate than a lighter cue, even though it might not strike as powerfully?

Has anyone here ever gone to a lighter break cue and then back to a heavier break cue?

Any comments on these thoughts?

Thanks!

Wally_in_Cincy
01-29-2004, 02:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr>I'd forgotten how exhiliarating and powerful you feel stroking and thrusting a long heavy rod... um, but I digress...

<hr /></blockquote>

Geez... LOL

Seriously, how heavy is it?

I had a Viking sp and my cue repair guy was going to increase the weight for me. Unfortunately it grew legs at a tournament so I never got to try out a really heavy break cue.

Popcorn
01-29-2004, 02:41 PM
A lighter cue will let you accelerate the cue to a faster speed which will translate to the cueball moving faster when it hits the rack. Having said that, breaking as hard as you can is not always what you want to do. If you are not going for some kind of maximum break and that may account for most average players who are happy to make a square hit on the front ball, you may in fact get a better break with the heavier cue due to the power it's extra mass offers. It may even offer additional control. It is good to watch what the pros and try what they do, but that does not mean just because they are pros what they do is exactly right for you. Although all advice given should be considered, the job is to sift through it and find what applies to you. The truth is, you don't need someone to tell you what works best for you, try different things, you will find what works best pretty quick.

Fred Agnir
01-29-2004, 02:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> Although I haven't noticed anything wrong with my lighter break cue, breaking with this heavy cue just feels more ...fun? And, I wonder if it's possibly more accurate than a lighter cue, even though it might not strike as powerfully?

Has anyone here ever gone to a lighter break cue and then back to a heavier break cue?

Any comments on these thoughts?

Thanks! <hr /></blockquote>Hopefully, you've never read from me that a lighter cue has more of an advantage than a heavier cue when it comes to breaking. Each has its own inherent advantage.

Bottom line: the way someone breaks and their physical attributes can point to an optimum break stick weight. It could be lighter. It could be heavier. That is to say, there's no reason to discount the other.

Fred

Pizza Bob
01-29-2004, 03:13 PM
I never abandoned the heavy break cue. I have always subscribed to the more weight moving slower school of thought, than to the light weight moving fast. Worked in shooting (guns) - always favored the .45 ACP over the 9 mm, and it works for me in pool.

Funny story: Had a friend who favored a REALLY heavy break stick. Had a Heubler, low-end cue and packed the cavity in the butt (on top of the weight bolt) with lead-wool - tamped it down good. Made for some spectacular breaks - about two to be exact, because the third time he broke with the cue, he shattered the forearm. Now THAT was spectacular.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

BLACKHEART
01-29-2004, 04:30 PM
My playing Q is 20 1/4 oz. I used an 18 oz. break Q for several years. I've made 3 of verious weights since. The one that does the best job for me is 19 1/2 oz. I don't recommend going more than 1 oz. below the weight of your playing Q. The 18 oz. never felt like I was hitting the ball solidly enough &amp; I felt it was harder to to control...JER

SPetty
01-29-2004, 05:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>...how heavy is it? <hr /></blockquote>I haven't weighed it, but it's description says it's 20.25 ounces.

Thanks, everybody, for your help and responses so far.

BLACKHEART
01-29-2004, 05:09 PM
I've sold Qs from all of the major Qmakers. Every one of them have missed marked the weight of they're Qs. If they have an order for a 20 oz. &amp; they have one weighing 19.5 oz. They'll just put a 20 oz. sticker on it. I've bought directly from the manufacturer &amp; distributors. Both have sent me Qs under or over the marked weight...JER

MrSecant
01-30-2004, 10:39 AM
I agree with popcorn. Everyone has different types of muscles. Some move faster where others are simply stronger. If you are a strong guy but slow, heavy would be best. The opposite is probably true as well. The way you break is also an important factor.

01-30-2004, 11:04 AM

Chris Cass
01-30-2004, 11:38 AM
Tap, Tap, Tap.

I believe one should break with a cue that's one oz lighter than their playing cue. I've also broke with both before making my decision. I base this on two basic reasons. One being if your playing tournament pool. One has to break many times throughout the tourney. The heavier cue will eventually wear you down in the long run.

The other reason is that beaking with a heavier cue may change the feeling in your back hand, when going to a lighter cue when shooting. All this is a individual thought anyway. The break is all timing, whether it be good or bad. It is effecting you whether you believe it or not over a long period of time carrying this equipment on your shoulder for three days. Unless, your talking Vegas for 10 days.

Regards,

C.C.

Wally_in_Cincy
01-30-2004, 11:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> I forgot to mention again my theory about a strong neck (shaft) produces mighty mighty breaks.

<hr /></blockquote>

can't disagree.

I break with a cheapo sp with a thick, conically tapered shaft and it works great.

Eric.
01-30-2004, 11:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> I forgot to mention again my theory about a strong neck (shaft) produces mighty mighty breaks.

Several times I have mentioned that the el cheapo sticks we got with our pool table breaks as good as any sticks out there. They have the screw off tips (rock hard and flat)) if you want to 'know what I mean'. Please, someone tell me that they have broken with one of these sticks so that I won't feel like I am exaggerating LOL. PS, they weigh only around 19 oz. I am guessing. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree. For the hard breaks, a strong taper seems to be the better shaft. Given that, I don't think too many house cues come with long tapers.

My Predator BK has a taper somewhat similar to a Carom cues'. It grows alot sooner than the 'Pro taper', making it stiffer. Using a flat, shaved down hard tip, it breaks nicely. My BK also weighs 19oz, just my personal preference.



Eric

Perk
01-30-2004, 12:04 PM
Them "el cheapo" house cues come in handy for me also. I drop my Predator to grab a house cue to jump balls. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

cuttyshark
01-30-2004, 12:37 PM
My take:

(And I welcome any disagreement)

I don't believe that any one break cue configuration is any "better" than any other.
Granted, this theory is, purely, subjective, but, in my mind, the purpose of a break cue is, primarily, to eliminate the chance of tip deformation on my regular playing cue (or, to lengthen the life of ivory materials).
Obviously, since we're entitled to use this equipment, its in our nature to experiment and form opinions related to performance optimization. But, I'm still skeptical.

If anyone would do some objective testing of break cue performance (say an average of balls made, and, dispsersion patterns for 18, 19, and 20 oz cues, with soft/hard/layered/phenolic tips, with a couple of different tip sizes and shaft tapers thrown in for completeness - and, I think a hundred 9 ball racks with each setup would be an adequate sample size), it would enlighten the world.

Until then, it's all BS as far as I'm concerned...

Popcorn
01-30-2004, 12:40 PM
Just a couple more thought on the break cue. With the break whether a little lighter or heavier there is that point of diminishing returns. I used to break really hard till it was pointed out to me by another player, that you could count on you fingers the actual good break I made in the course of the session. I realized that just before the break, there was a little but of anxiety also as I prepared to hit this hard break, knowing bad things could happen. When I slowed down my break, "Every" break became a good break, in that there was no more scratching, or flying all over he table with the cueball and when I made a ball on the break I found myself running out more, and I don't think I am really making any less balls on the break then before. I just had to put out of my mind the fact that if I don't make a ball I may leave the other guy out, but I can't be worrying about that. When I became aware of it I then began to notice that many of the top players don't break super hard, but prefer to make sure they make a good solid hit on the rack and control the cue ball better. That is where the diminishing returns comes in. You break as hard as you can to the point of having control of the break and not beyond. The way I break now, the cue is not as critical to the break any more. I often break with my playing cue with out a thought and don't even take out my break cue.

RedHell
01-30-2004, 01:10 PM
Eric,

Talking about your BK, how did you take care or you mushrooming ferrule ?

Eric.
01-30-2004, 02:21 PM
That remains to be seen. I sent the shaft back to Predator and will wait to hear from them as to whether it's warranty or not. Either way, the ferrule needs to be replaced by Predator so as to not void the warranty on the rest on the shaft, so I'll let ya know...


Eric

RedHell
01-30-2004, 02:24 PM
TY, keep up informed... I'm curious.

According to what I read around the net, it is hard to get Predator to respect the warranty. It seems that all the warranty cover is if the wood split, and that they use poor usage or maintenance of the cue as a reason to void it...

bigbro6060
01-30-2004, 06:56 PM
I had a break cue custom made, works really really awesome!

is just 1oz lighter than my playing cue but more important it is more of the weight at the front end of the shaft so it makes it less likely to deviate when striking and definitely gives it more ooomph

Tom_In_Cincy
01-30-2004, 10:18 PM
Observation about your experience.

All too often, I hear of players talking about playing bad or not wining more often or there is something wrong they are in a slump.. but how often do you hear about players talking about having FUN playing? After all... this is a game. Even good competition can be lots of fun.

Love to hear and see players having fun....

About the break cue.. I had a 21 oz Meucci Sneaky Pete that I gave to a friend (Wally ask to see Ed Sr's break cue) when I got a 19 oz Bludworth SP that I've used for a break cue for the last 5 years.

I didn't see much difference in either's perfomance, I still don't have a strong or consistant break. Something I've been working on for 30 some years. One of Pool's little challenges.

woody_968
01-31-2004, 09:56 AM
Shark, I agree some testing could be done, but I dont think I would base it on balls made. As that brings in table conditions, the way the balls were racked, and too many veriables. I dont know if just cueball speed would be the correct number to look at either but I think it would be a good place to start. Of course it would have to be done first with some type of machine that could produce exactly the same stroke - like Kato /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif - and then done with several players of different abilities. I wonder if Dave Pelz has any interest in pool /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif