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View Full Version : Are There Any Kasson Owner's Out There?



pittpanther
02-01-2004, 02:25 PM
Hello - first I would like to issue a collective thank you to all. I am a new member who has been taking in quite a few threads regarding table selection advice and recommendations. As such, several of these threads make mention of the Kasson brand, which seems to be fairly respected (especially by logixrat!) I was hoping to hear from some Kasson owners to hear some of their feelings regarding the brand and their experience with it.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

pittpanther
02-01-2004, 07:45 PM
Along these same lines, I received a price quote of $1425 for a Kasson DeVille (includes starter kit, but not setup nor delivery). Like everyone, I am a huge fan of getting a great bargain - but such a reasonable price conflicts with the old "...you get what you pay for," principle if in fact the Kasson table is of high quality.

kyhogan
02-01-2004, 08:54 PM
Have you looked at the construction?
Yes you will get what you pay for. What you will be paying for is inferior grade solid wood. ((would your rather pay the same moeny for plywood and laminate)). What you will get is inferior rail material by brusnwick standards (but I wonder how good of rails they had 25 years ago). You will get inferior fasteners when compared to more expensive nuts and bolts.

Outside of driving a good distance most folks are selling the deville for 1900 with installation and cheap balls. Yes thats about $600 shy of a brunswick or diamond of similar grade wood.

Slate is debateable and probaby not italian or brazilian and I think depends largely on dealer and watch it it just might be 3/4.

Installation runs from 200-250 and cost the dealer about $150. If you can get them to install it for $1600 I would say your $300 ahead of the game on new. ((they are selling for about 800 used)).

If I had 3grand to blow sure I would move up to the better table (Diamond) and better accessories. But I don't play enough to warrant that kinda money. If you do then pay more and get more.

kyhogan
02-02-2004, 05:29 AM
p.s. I'm going to pick up my used Kasson this weekend. It will be another 30 days before I get it set up and playing on it. If you wanna wait I'll tell you more after that.

pittpanther
02-02-2004, 07:09 AM
Thanks for the response, and for all of your former threads /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ~ they have been very helpful. I have yet to lay my eyes on a Kasson - their site for locating dealers appears to be unavailable. I will try to contact them this week. I would definitely appreciate some feedback once you receive your table.

I would classify myself as a beginner currently, but my personality type is that I only like to buy something once. I plan on spending quite a bit of time playing on this table. I would hate to be in a position in a couple of years where I have outgrown the table. I may be able to justify spending $2.5K, maybe $3K - but I would prefer not to if the benefits are not justifiable.

Like many, my table choice will have to be of furniture quality. There is no way my wife would allow me to bring a table like the Brunswick Gold Crown series into our house /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif!

woody_968
02-02-2004, 02:23 PM
Would she like the looks of a Diamond /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If she wont let ya bring it in the house then ya sell her on building a seperate room so you wont wake her up when your hitting balls at 3:00am LOL

kyhogan
02-02-2004, 08:34 PM
http://www.diamondbilliard.com/tables/athome.aspx?tn=jubilee

I was told the above table sells for around 2500. Look around on here with post involving Greg Diamond the owner of Diamond tables. Do some research on his tables and him and it will become obvious what to buy. If I were going to spend $2000 to $3000 on a pool table this is the route I would go. In fact I decided that instead of spending $1500-1800 on a Kasson I would rather buy used now and if I play enough upgrade later and put the used table at the lake house.

Brunswick outsources most of their work now,and in my book except for a few models is mostly a label on foreign tables. Olhausen is the same way and their cheap stuff is really cheap. You wanna inexpensive well built table for the money buy the Kasson or American Heritage (an even lesser known but similar quality) but be sure to get 1" slate.

Since you can afford a decent table now, know what you want, and only want to buy it once; get a Diamond. And rest assured you will be getting what you pay for and not just a cheap import with a name on it (In my humble opinion).

pittpanther
02-02-2004, 08:49 PM
I am learning the same lesson(s) you learned Kyhogan. It seems the more I research, the more I keep steering towards the Diamond brand.

I also checked my local want ads and found an ad for a 9' Peter Vitalie, "1 inch slate, Mahogany, perf condition," for $2800. I have only read a few things about their tables so far, but I haven't really been looking yet either. Any insights on this brand?

Frank_Glenn
02-02-2004, 08:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote kyhogan:</font><hr> http://www.diamondbilliard.com/tables/athome.aspx?tn=jubilee

I was told the above table sells for around 2500. Look around on here with post involving Greg Diamond the owner of Diamond tables. Do some research on his tables and him and it will become obvious what to buy. If I were going to spend $2000 to $3000 on a pool table this is the route I would go. In fact I decided that instead of spending $1500-1800 on a Kasson I would rather buy used now and if I play enough upgrade later and put the used table at the lake house.

Brunswick outsources most of their work now,and in my book except for a few models is mostly a label on foreign tables. Olhausen is the same way and their cheap stuff is really cheap. You wanna inexpensive well built table for the money buy the Kasson or American Heritage (an even lesser known but similar quality) but be sure to get 1" slate.

Since you can afford a decent table now, know what you want, and only want to buy it once; get a Diamond. And rest assured you will be getting what you pay for and not just a cheap import with a name on it (In my humble opinion). <hr /></blockquote>

I agree, but his name is Greg Sullivan.

frog
02-02-2004, 09:38 PM
I have had a kasson for 4 yrs, and love it. And I play in a lot of touneys, and pool halls too. Igt does not bank like a bruns. becuase it does not have super speed cushions. I have owned 3 different furn tables, and the kasson is the best by far. I have the model that is maple subframe, not black particle board. the pluses are the 5" rails, solid maple rails(not puny sounding on banks), The pockets on mine play like diamond pro cuts, pocket speed works good on railers. I must nsay my favorite table to play on is a gold crown, but I prefer the look of a furniture table.

kyhogan
02-02-2004, 09:44 PM
Thanks for correcting me on Gregs last name! But maybe he should change it to Diamond.

I have seen the vitale tables. Going on what was described to me the bottom line is they are built with high end furniture craftmanship. But I have not seen any points about how vitale tables are on the cutting edge of the billards game. ((NOR HAVE I LOOKED))

Which brings me to another point you can spend a whole lot of money on just furniture and carvings etc. Your statement was best value for a table with emphasis on a quality pool table. If more money and time goes into the furniture aspect and the final sale price is similar then what did not receive as much attention?

=k=
02-03-2004, 06:53 AM
pittpanther.. i have a Peter Vitalie and really like it.. new mine was 10g. i would have been just as happy with a gold crown but wife thought they looked ugly..

pittpanther
02-03-2004, 07:39 AM
Thanks all for the responses. I haven't found much information regarding the playability of the Vitalies. Their website seems to promote more of the furniture aspect of their tables, which concerns me a little bit. I think I will go take a look at it nonetheless.

=k= - can you comment on your experience with Vitalie's playability?

Kyhogan - you mentioned in an earlier thread that you found a dealer in the Atlanta area offering the Kasson DeVille for $1,300 - would you mind sharing their contact information?

Thanks again everyone!

pittpanther
02-03-2004, 08:59 AM
I just spoke with a local dealer of Kasson tables (Brizzi's in Laurel, MD,) and the owner (Bob Brizzi) indicated that the Kasson DeVille is entirely imported... and for this reason, he will not sell it.

Has anyone else heard this about Kasson tables?

More and more, I am starting to turn towards Diamond. I am a little concerned about their Home Tables as well though. I requested some literature from them today.

kyhogan
02-03-2004, 09:42 AM
Look at my post a message from brunswick. You will be surprised at how many tables are outsourced outside of the US. The reality is that most of the table componets are outsourced outside of the us (think about it plastic, slate, leather, fastners, and wood). And quite frankly so is the labor to put those parts together.

Under $2K I challenge you to find a table that is not entirely outsourced. The American Heritage people indicated to me that some of their stuff around 2000 grand wasn't. Brunswick basically said their stuff is. I believe the entire Kasson line is. Honda's and Toyotas run for 200-300K miles.

You have to watch the Dealers they are like used car salesman. They have one thing in mind selling you a table. They already have enough friends.

sandgnat
02-03-2004, 09:55 AM
There are other smaller scale manufacturers out there that make tables here in the good ol' USA. You just have to look for them. Check out American Heirloom (Gandy reinvented). They don't make a "low end" table, but they are 100% American made. Or go with a Diamond! Can't go wrong there either. Gotta spend the money for quality unless you can find a good deal on a used table. Just my 2 cents. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

sandgnat
02-03-2004, 09:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr> Would she like the looks of a Diamond /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Remind her that she can tell all her friends that you bought her a Diamond!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pittpanther
02-03-2004, 02:27 PM
Kyhogan - were you able to find the DeVille for $1,300 in Atlanta?

pittpanther
02-03-2004, 03:03 PM
Also, does Diamond only sell direct?

=k=
02-04-2004, 06:57 AM
pittpanther, the table plays great. the pockets are a little to big. when i recover i am going to shim them, a little. when they set up the table, i made them reset the rails three or four times, they finally got it right that was three years ago and they have stayed straight.. you can run ball up rail from either direction and not get any interferance by center pocket.. not sure this is a good thing as i try it on other tables and half the time i get kicked out at side pocket.
anyway i am pleased with the table. i think why you don't hear more about them is because they are pricey..

Ken
02-04-2004, 07:35 AM
I know of only one Diamond "dealer". It is a pool room that has Diamond tables and if you want one they can get one for you. Of course, you can do that yourself. I don't believe the room owners keep any tables around for sale.
Ken

pittpanther
02-04-2004, 06:26 PM
I read in a couple of other threads that the Diamond Pro (in oak) is selling for $3500? Is this still the case? I have requested a price list from Diamond, but I just can't wait /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif!

sigep1967
02-04-2004, 06:32 PM
sorry to tell you pittpanther but that sale ended Jan 30 I too was thinking about getting one at that price but i am not ready to buy one yet so i missed the sale.

logixrat
02-04-2004, 08:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pittpanther:</font><hr> I just spoke with a local dealer of Kasson tables (Brizzi's in Laurel, MD,) and the owner (Bob Brizzi) indicated that the Kasson DeVille is entirely imported... and for this reason, he will not sell it.
<hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

What the? How the? When the? Man, that comes as a total shocker. Of course, I guess for $1300-$1600, that might explain some of it....still I don't like it. The table I looked at that I was so impressed with was The Bentley, and can be found here:

http://www.kassonpooltables.com/tablestc/ben.html

As memory recalls, that table was right at the $1800-$1900 range. Not as cheap as the Deville, but still not a bad bargain. Hopefully that table was NOT an import, because I liked it way too much (as everyone has heard in numerous posts).

Either way, if your gut leads you toward the Diamond, by all means go for it. I have found that more times than not, my gut is right and if you don't follow it, you just end up regretting it in the long run. I haven't checked prices on the Diamond because I never had that much $$ to spend, but I have heard numbers kicked out from $2500-$3500.

Good luck!

kyhogan
02-04-2004, 10:10 PM
The bentley retails cheaper than the deville. The bentley has cabinet legs the deville has solid legs if one is made over seas they both are. It does not surprise me and does not take away from it's basic construction. The 1300 price comes as a result of shrewed bargaining and one can't just walk in and get such a deal. Remember my local dealer told me to hit the road when I offered him $1600 and indicated I was going to another city to buy one for $1300. The Bentley they would sell for $1600-1800.

Again you will be hard pressed to find any table under $2000 and few under $2500 built in the US.

I spoke to American Heritage and they flat out told me which ones were the imports (the models they strictly imported were cheap and did not carry a lifetime warranty or the company name they were just that cheap imports). American Heritage also ships their cabinet whole not likely from an oversees shipper.

I will share my contact once I have a table in hand.Sorry sometimes suppliers change their mind or sell all they have in stock and the deal isn't good after that.

Both Kasson and American Heritage were similar in construction not exact but similar.

$2500 is the breaking point. If your going to spend 2000 or more step on up and get a good one.

I want one of them Italian slate, south american rain forest hardwood, italian leather, all American tables. Because it's done better in the states buddy (and don't give me any of that North Carolina slate neither). /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pittpanther
02-06-2004, 09:33 AM
Thanks again for all of the information.

Kyhogan - for $2500, what table would you buy? With the Diamond Pro sale over (I was close to justifying the $3500 for it!), I am virtually back to square one.

A local dealer (Champion Billiards) is supposedly having a big sale this weekend - they carry Olhausen, AMF, A.E. Schmidt. Another local dealer (the one that mentioned some of Kasson's tables are imported) carries Kasson and C.L. Bailey. I am going to go check them all out.

kyhogan
02-06-2004, 11:24 AM
Can't you get the Diamond Home for around 2500.
Heck the Diamond Pro sounds good. I'm a believer that if something was on sale (not the only last year model or clearance) then they can sell it for that price any time. Sales are merely intended to activate the constant fence sitter into action.

Mr DEALER I want to buy this table at this SALE price as it was offered.

Obviously you have financial resources get what you want you'll be happier with it.

pittpanther
02-06-2004, 07:24 PM
I will definitely check with Diamond regarding the sale.

As far as their Home Tables go - what is the story on them? Their website does not provide a whole lot of specifics. While I didn't want to bother Greg Sullivan, I tried to leave him a private message asking about the Home Tables, but I have not heard from him yet.

Does anyone own a Diamond Home Table? Maybe I need to start a new thread with that title...?!

I have since started a thread regarding this question. For reference:

Diamond Home Tables Thread (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=122683&amp;page=0&amp;v iew=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1)

pittpanther
02-06-2004, 07:49 PM
Kyhogan - did you get your table yet? If not, when?

kyhogan
02-06-2004, 07:54 PM
Look the way I read Diamond's web page they build them 1 table at a time. Which means you calling him is not troubling him but doing business.

Clearly you are a serious buyer. GET that man on the phone and tell him what you want. Ask him about the home tables. I think you are discounting the home tables with out the facts. Here is the page with the table spec http://www.diamondbilliard.com/tables/brochure.aspx?brochure=home

Watch out for them fast talking dealers.

pittpanther
02-06-2004, 08:02 PM
I did manage to find his e-mail, and sent him my questions. I would only call him as a last resort - although he appears to be incredibly accessible!

It is my understanding, there are no Diamond dealers in my region of the country (Northeast) - direct sales through Diamond only.

kyhogan
02-06-2004, 08:15 PM
Direct sales only and you will only call him as a last resort.

Man you are talking about this Mans business, his baby, his livelyhood, Get on the phone.