PDA

View Full Version : Player ratings



Wayne
02-02-2004, 06:34 PM
Using the USPPA rating system this is what pro players ratings might look like: (some are actual)
200 Efren, Archer, Bustamante, Strickland
180-195 Pagulyan, Parica, Immonen, Souquet
165-180 Duell, Eberle, Chamat, Jones
155-165 The Monk, Tony Anigoni, Amar Kang
130-145 Allison, K. Corr
115-130 Jeannette Lee, Helana Thornfeldt
90-115 Aaron Aragon, Jennifer Chen, Melissa Herndon,
Monica Webb, Michelle Rakin, Vivian Villereal
75-90 Ming Ng, Aileen Pippen, Angel Paglia
65-75 Fran Crimi, Lisa D'Atri, Cassie Anderson,
Stephanie Boch, Jenny Lee

UWPoolGod
02-02-2004, 06:48 PM
Hmmm I don't know about me hanging with the women in the 90-115 range. Maybe get some games but I am pretty sure I would get walloped. I was a 105 when I stopped.

Tom_In_Cincy
02-02-2004, 07:18 PM
Interesting opinion Wayne.

Sadly, I see, you didn't back it up with any data.

Under USPPA rules, any Professional player must be rated 125 and above.

From the USPPA web site Rating Guide Lines. (http://www.usppa.com/director.htm)

Professional Player 125+

Semi Professional 110 TO 124

AAA 95 TO 109
AA 80 TO 94
A 65 TO 79
B 50 TO 64
C 35 TO 49
D 25 TO 34
E 18 TO 24

Wayne
02-02-2004, 07:43 PM
Actually, 10 or 11 of the players I listed have actual averages in the range listed. I believe the ratings guide lines you listed are to give someone a beginning average. You certainly wouldn't rate a whole lot of people over 125 who are actually in the 65 to 125 range (or they wouldn't hang around long).

I have a lot of experience with the system and I would bet that most of the averages I listed would be pretty accurate.

Troy
02-02-2004, 08:42 PM
Some of these quoted averages are from an article by Tony Annigoni on the USPPA site written after the the May 2003 Reno Open.
See -- http://usppa.com/openaverages.htm

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wayne:</font><hr> Using the USPPA rating system this is what pro players ratings might look like: (some are actual)
200 Efren, Archer, Bustamante, Strickland
180-195 Pagulyan, Parica, Immonen, Souquet
165-180 Duell, Eberle, Chamat, Jones
155-165 The Monk, Tony Anigoni, Amar Kang
130-145 Allison, K. Corr
115-130 Jeannette Lee, Helana Thornfeldt
90-115 Aaron Aragon, Jennifer Chen, Melissa Herndon,
Monica Webb, Michelle Rakin, Vivian Villereal
75-90 Ming Ng, Aileen Pippen, Angel Paglia
65-75 Fran Crimi, Lisa D'Atri, Cassie Anderson,
Stephanie Boch, Jenny Lee <hr /></blockquote>

tateuts
02-02-2004, 08:48 PM
If you're Wayne P. then I know you know what you're talking about.

I've looked over the list and I think you are pretty well right-on. Monk and Tony might be rated a little too high from what I've seen. Chamat might be rated one notch low.

It's hard to peg Bustamante, Efren, etc., but I think they could spot the other male pros a game or two in a race to 9 and win their 50% share.

Can you figure out, in a race to 9, how many games Efren would have to spot Chamat? My guess is one game. How many games would he have to spot Jeanette Lee?


Chris

tateuts
02-02-2004, 08:57 PM
I still think it's a great post, because it puts into perspective just how much better than the rest of us the champions are.

These averages Tony is giving in his article are not at all accurate because they need to review quite a few matches - like 100 to be exact - to have an accurate average.

Basically, an Efren might be spotting your average shortstop 4 games in race to 8. Bear in mind, this is to even things up, so theoretically Efren would win 50% of the time. Your average shortstop might spot a "B" player 4 games in a race to 8, etc.

So if the "B" player wanted to know how he stood in relation to an Efren, well, he would need 7 games in a race to 9!

Chris

Frank_Glenn
02-02-2004, 09:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]

So if the "B" player wanted to know how he stood in relation to an Efren, well, he would need 7 games in a race to 9!<hr /></blockquote>

I'm not sure I like 7 on the wire from Efren, can I get the break, too?

tateuts
02-02-2004, 09:21 PM
OK, the break and 7 games on the wire. Here's some advice - If you vomit it might throw him off.

Chris

cheesemouse
02-02-2004, 09:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I like 7 on the wire from Efren, can I get the break, too?



<hr /></blockquote>


If I ever walk into a pool room and see Efren sitting there I'm going walk right up to him and say "Efren, I hear you play pretty good 9ball. I'll give you the seven in a race to seven for anything you want to play for...as long as it is less than a hundred bucks".......that would be the best $100 I have ever spent... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

tateuts
02-02-2004, 09:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr>

If I ever walk into a pool room and see Efren sitting there I'm going walk right up to him and say "Efren, I hear you play pretty good 9ball. I'll give you the seven in a race to seven for anything you want to play for...as long as it is less than a hundred bucks".......that would be the best $100 I have ever spent... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, Efren will play you cheap even up. He's a very nice, and very humble man.

When he was here in Los Angeles a few months ago I was out of town, but my good friend played him a couple of races for $50 each. The pool room owner was calling people to come down to play him. My friend is a good player, but of course he choked - who wouldn't against Efren? Anyway, they played two races to 9 for $50 each and it was like 9 - 4.

Great fun and a great experience. I definitely would have chipped in a few hundred to play him -no doubt about it.

Chris

Tom_In_Cincy
02-02-2004, 09:58 PM
Wayne,

Suggested ratings for "known" players.

Any Pro male that wanted to play in a USPPA tournament that joined that nite would be assigned a rating of 125+.

I would assign any top 20 male of female PRO at least a 150.

Tony Chohan and Amar Kang play at the USPPA tournament that I run at Hard Times in Sacramento. Both of them are over 150. Neither are in the top 20 rankings of either male or female players.

tateuts
02-02-2004, 11:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Wayne,

Suggested ratings for "known" players.

Any Pro male that wanted to play in a USPPA tournament that joined that nite would be assigned a rating of 125+.

I would assign any top 20 male of female PRO at least a 150.

<hr /></blockquote>

Not to be sexist, but I don't agree it's accurate that any top 20 female would get a 150. I think maybe the top two. I know Melissa Herndon plays in ours. She's ranked 16th right now and she's rated about 95 on average. And she's damn good too!

Chris

UWPoolGod
02-03-2004, 11:40 AM
A girl I dated in Seattle is a strong player...meaning she can run a rack if they are sitting right but also dogs balls. She is only rated like a 60, should be a 80 or so. She gets in the money at the tourney every week but doesn't move up in rating. Probably cause her innings are high and safties are low.

No matter what I was rated coming back from USPPA, the TD would rate me 10+ points higher so he didn't have to spot me a game. Didn't matter when I was beating him 5-0 a few weeks in a row but he didn't agree on what rating came back...which is at his discretion to change. None of the top players in Seattle play in the tourneys cause it takes all day, and they get frustrated having to spot people 5-2 all the time. But then again...at 100+ should always beat a 40 every day of the week with that spot.

tateuts
02-03-2004, 12:44 PM
Here's a good one. I get matched even with the director of our area who's a strong player, win the toss, and break and run out the first rack. I was playing pretty good and getting easy tables, so I'm running out everything and beat him 7 to 2. The next week, I'm playing at 20 points higher. Big mistake, lesson learned. Don't drill the guy who sets the handicaps!

Chris

cycopath
02-03-2004, 02:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr>Not to be sexist, but I don't agree it's accurate that any top 20 female would get a 150. <hr /></blockquote>

According to Mitch Laurance they are "the best players in the world".
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/images/smilies/dozey.gif

Wayne
02-03-2004, 04:07 PM
Hi Chris: Yes it is me. I would guess that Efren would be giving Jeanette 3 games in a race to 9 and Marcus 1. I think you are correct that Monk and Tony are a little high but since there actual ratings are in that range I put them in there. Wayne

Wayne
02-03-2004, 04:19 PM
Tom:

Here is an experiment for you. Find a female ranked around 20th (who you say you would rate equal with Tony and Amar). Then go ask Tony or Amar if they would be willing to give this female the 6 and 7 and the breaks for $2000 a set in a race to 9. (I already know the answer but it may change your opinion.)

Tom_In_Cincy
02-03-2004, 07:10 PM
Wayne,

I thought we were talking about tournament handicaps.. how'd this get into a match-up question?

Not sure why you want to change my opinion?

Wayne
02-03-2004, 07:30 PM
I thought it would be obvious that you wouldn't rate 2 people equal in a handicapped tournament if one of them could give the other the 6 and 7 and the breaks.

Sid_Vicious
02-03-2004, 09:40 PM
"I thought it would be obvious that you wouldn't rate 2 people equal in a handicapped tournament if one of them could give the other the 6 and 7 and the breaks."

Amen...sid

Tom_In_Cincy
02-03-2004, 10:54 PM
Post deleted by Tom_In_Cincy

tateuts
02-03-2004, 10:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wayne:</font><hr> Hi Chris: Yes it is me. Wayne <hr /></blockquote>

Well, I hope to see you around here and in the pool room some more in the future. Very interesting post. See you,

Chris

tateuts
02-03-2004, 11:00 PM
Tom,

You are always right. So is your new neighbor, Ahhnold. He was on our KNX1070 morning radio show stumping for Prop 57 and 58. He is a natural born salesman. Hope you like SMF.

Chris

SRpool
02-04-2004, 04:11 AM
I'm not sure who was talking about the match up between a woman ranked around 20 and Tony or Amar giving up the 6,7 and the breaks, but I might be a good candidate for that game. I'm ranked 20th and I would sit and beg that they come to play like that. I know it's off topic I just couldn't resist.

eg8r
02-04-2004, 08:36 AM
Hey, what is this crap about deleting your post? Now we don't know what you reply is to a perfectly good post by Wayne.

I hate this option of deleting posts. It is not like you could take back the words if they were spoken.

eg8r

tateuts
02-04-2004, 10:58 AM
Not me! I'm betting on Sarah with the nuts!

Chris

Tom_In_Cincy
02-04-2004, 01:10 PM
Good question, I will ask them this week. And post the answers.

Would it make a difference if it was their own money? Or would you be willing to put your own money up?

Is it the wild 6 and 7? or Called?

Hard Times Tournament tables or the tables out front?

Wally_in_Cincy
02-04-2004, 01:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Not me! I'm betting on Sarah with the nuts!

Chris <hr /></blockquote>

Ditto that. That bet is a lock...IMO

tateuts
02-04-2004, 02:10 PM
Post deleted by tateuts

/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
02-04-2004, 02:21 PM
Don't irritate eg8r. That's Qtec's job /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r
02-04-2004, 02:58 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r

Rod
02-04-2004, 03:18 PM
Could be a good bet. I'm rated a 25, how much weight is everyone giving up if I bet high? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Wayne
02-04-2004, 03:37 PM
Regarding Tony and Amar not being in the top 20 of either male or females. If you are referring to some posted statistic somewhere this may be true. If you are saying there are 20 women in the world better than either of them you need your head examined (lol).

I watched Tony torture Ronny Wiseman in ten ball 8 ahead for 8G's. Although neither Tony or Amar would be in the top 20 men if they played regularly in pro events they would not be out of their league either. If they played regularly in women's pro events it would be a bloodbath.

Wayne

SRpool
02-04-2004, 03:42 PM
I wasn't trying to start a whole argument by any means. That is a huge spot. I respect both of their games but, that is a big spot. You are asking about the tables at Hardtimes, I know nothing about the tables there. If the game did happen, since you were asking how it would go down, I will take one wild, one call. We can play on a tight table. I can put up my own money or get money from a backer.

Like I said though, I am not trying to start anything. I was just saying it could be an exact test of what you said, finding a woman ranked around 20th and play the game.

No hard feelings anyone.
Sarah

Wayne
02-04-2004, 04:08 PM
Hi Sarah:

Sounds like you have game. Since both of them are road players they may be interested in this match-up. I am sure someone in Sacramento will let them know of this possibility. I may be wrong and they may think this is too much of a spot for you. (I see you are ranked #2 on the 2004 women's list for money it would be great if you could maintain that early lead). If they like it I am sure they will look you up in the Chicago area.

I mentioned this spot because I saw Santos (who is better than Tony or Amar) give Jennifer Chen (who was rated in the top 5 at the time) this spot and he won. He then increased the spot to the 6, 7 and the breaks plus the last two and tortured her for two more sets for 4 figures.

I hope no one thinks I am putting down women players because I think the top 40 or 50 are great and I wish I was as good as the top 2 (hopefully some day soon). I compete against some in this category (top 50) and I am very impressed with their talent and determination. I would love to see a female player rise to the top of the game I think it would be a great story and great for the game.

Wayne

Tom_In_Cincy
02-04-2004, 04:14 PM
Wayne.. you made me laugh out loud. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tony and Amar would have to play in a lot more MEN's tournaments to know for sure if they can bust the top 25 of the MEN's. I've seen both of them play a lot. Matching up and in tournaments. They are strong....but, IMO, not in the top 25. Not in tournament play anyway.

I just blurted out laughing when I got the visual of Tony playing against the women... and Mitch saying "these are the best players in the world"

Glad to know you have a sence of humor. Can't wait until you come to Hard Times for an event. I'll buy the 1st round (or 3)

Fred Agnir
02-04-2004, 04:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wayne:</font><hr> Using the USPPA rating system this is what pro players ratings might look like: (


155-165 The Monk, <hr /></blockquote>

Warren, I trust?

Fred

Wayne
02-04-2004, 04:41 PM
Well I heard on the grapevine that Tony was not allowed to compete on the women's tour because of dress code violations. Apparently, he could not or would not get his purse and high heels to match.

Troy
02-04-2004, 05:42 PM
Yup, Warren (The Monk) Costanzo is well established at 155.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wayne:</font><hr> Using the USPPA rating system this is what pro players ratings might look like: (


155-165 The Monk, <hr /></blockquote>

Warren, I trust?

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Tom_In_Cincy
02-04-2004, 11:34 PM
SRPool,

Sorry to report, at this time, neither Tony or Amar are willing to give-up that spot. Both said that you are too strong a player. I asked them separately tonite and both surprized me by saying the same thing. "That's too strong a spot for the 20th ranked ladies"

Amar was even hesitant to play Michelle Rakin with that spot.

SRpool
02-05-2004, 01:42 AM
Thanks for asking Tom. Like I said before, that is a huge spot. I'm suprised Tony didn't jump at it the way I played at the DCC. But like I said, I have the ultimate respect for both of their games.

Sarah

Dagwood
02-05-2004, 02:41 AM
Tom...

Just curious, because when I was out in Cali last, in Monterey, Tony was living there, managing one of the pool halls there, the Blue Fin. Does he still have a stake in that room, and does he still go down there? Or is he staying over at Hard Times in Sacramento? Only reason I'm asking is I'm going to be heading back out to Cali in a few weeks, the military's stationing me back in Monterey for about a year, and I know that Tony is good for action. Last time I was out there, a few months before I left, Tony was playing Lettuce Larry from Gilroy for a little bit of pocket change...4 figures.

Dags

tateuts
02-05-2004, 08:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wayne:</font><hr> Well I heard on the grapevine that Tony was not allowed to compete on the women's tour because of dress code violations. Apparently, he could not or would not get his purse and high heels to match. <hr /></blockquote>

Wayne,

How about that big 60 year old transvestite that comes around, the one with the hairy legs, high heels, facial surgey, and 44DD implants? She plays pretty good. Would you volunteer to do a sex check on her? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


Chris

tateuts
02-05-2004, 08:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Wayne.. you made me laugh out loud. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I just blurted out laughing when I got the visual of Tony playing against the women... and Mitch saying "these are the best players in the world"

Glad to know you have a sence of humor. Can't wait until you come to Hard Times for an event. I'll buy the 1st round (or 3)
<hr /></blockquote>

Wayne is a good player and a good guy. You would enjoy your drink.

Chris

Tom_In_Cincy
02-05-2004, 11:07 AM
Dagwood,

Tony is a regular at Hard Times Sacramento. I've never heard Tony speak of Monterey.

Troy
02-05-2004, 12:19 PM
Sounds like you're referring to Tony Annigoni and Sac Tom is referring to Tony Chohan.

To answer your question, no, Tony Annigoni is out of the Blue Fin. He isn't "staying" at Hardtimes either. He is on the road quite a bit promoting the USPPA and playing in tourneys. For example, this Saturday he's doing a clinic associated with a 65 &amp; under USPPA tournament at Cal. Billiards in Mountain View.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Dagwood:</font><hr> Tom...

Just curious, because when I was out in Cali last, in Monterey, Tony was living there, managing one of the pool halls there, the Blue Fin. Does he still have a stake in that room, and does he still go down there? Or is he staying over at Hard Times in Sacramento? Only reason I'm asking is I'm going to be heading back out to Cali in a few weeks, the military's stationing me back in Monterey for about a year, and I know that Tony is good for action. Last time I was out there, a few months before I left, Tony was playing Lettuce Larry from Gilroy for a little bit of pocket change...4 figures.

Dags <hr /></blockquote>