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View Full Version : Why did Earl lash out on Day 4 of Mosconi Cup



dooziexx
02-09-2004, 11:11 AM
Just finished watching a the 2003 Mosconi Cup over the weekend. After Earl's match with Nick van den Berg, he lashed out saying something like how Nick would play when he turns 40... Why did he lash out at Nick?

Perk
02-09-2004, 11:27 AM
InsidePool magazine made mention of this in their Mosconi Cup coverage. It was something about the highlights of the prior years match with Davis/Strickland issues right before Earls match this year. I guess the Europe fans were giving it to him during the match, and that was his way to vent. I never paid much attention to his antics previously, but he seemed like a child, and if I was incharge of a team, I wouldnt have him on it, even though he shoots damn good. He kinda reminded me of Pete Webber doing the chop during his bowling matches. Webber brought intensity to his games, but since then he has mentioned reasons for quiting his chop/antics. He still is powerful and has attitude, but not so much towards his peers. Strickland seems to definately have issues regarding respect of his peers. Kinda makes ya wonder how much respect he gets as an individual from his counter parts.

Billy
02-09-2004, 12:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dooziexx:</font><hr> Just finished watching a the 2003 Mosconi Cup over the weekend ... Why did he lash out at Nick? <hr /></blockquote>

after all these years,I just gotta wonder if even Earl knows /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jmo

Steve Lipsky
02-09-2004, 01:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Perk:</font><hr> I never paid much attention to his antics previously, but he seemed like a child, and if I was incharge of a team, I wouldnt have him on it, even though he shoots damn good. <hr /></blockquote>

This reminds me of an incident when, about 10 or 12 years ago, the Baltimore Orioles were in the playoffs. A player (I think it was Roberto Alomar?) got into a dispute with the umpire and actually spit on him. He SPIT on him, on live TV.

I remember thinking that if I were Davey Johnson (the Orioles manager at the time), I would have benched Alomar for the next game. Instead, he said that he would abide by the league's decision on the incident, which wouldn't even be made until the offseason.

I felt that this incident was truly the beginning of the end, as it were, for sports and society. There was no longer any question that it was all about money and very little else. The right thing to do would have been to bench Alomar, playoffs or not. Let Baltimore regain its pride. Have Johnson effectively say, "You want to act like a child, go ahead. But don't do it on my watch. Don't do it when it reflects on me and the city."

But in the end, the almighty dollar won out, and he played. And I am sure that if Davey Johnson had benched Alomar, and they lost the series, he would have been fired during the offseason. But there are some things worth losing your job over.

- Steve

Rich R.
02-10-2004, 05:15 AM
Sorry Steve, but you left out the part where the umpire called Alomar a racist name, before the spitting. Most people forget that part.
It didn't make the spitting right, but the umpire continued to work and I don't believe he was ever suspended or fined.
I guess the players are held to a higher standard than the people controling the game.

Fleece3
02-10-2004, 05:33 AM
OK here is the story,

The previous day, before his match with Davis, SKY VIDEO showed a brief video intro before the match. Davis's was very respectfully, Earl's video however, show just about EVERY missed shot and blowup that Earl had had. The Euro fan took great pleasure in laughing at every shown mistake and frustration. The video ended with the announcer saying that "Earl is the kind of guy that if he was drowning would shot at the rescuers" This obviously got into Earl's head and Davis blanked him 5-0. The next day with VanDan Berg, the crowd kept the same attitude and try to get under Earl's skin. When he won IN SPITE OF, he vented. I can't say I blame him and I would have done the same thing. You are wrong when you say he turn on Nick. He did not. He was very respectfully to Nick and the ref. Even shook both of their hands at the end of the match. He DID rub SH*T in the faces of the Euro fans and with good reason. The man is one of the greatest EVER. How about showing a little RESPECT!!! Frankly, I was hoping that JJ lost. I wanted Earl to be at the table when USA won the damn thing. He was the next and final match (in fact he was in the practice room warming up when JJ won it. What could have been better than both teams being on the hill with Earl dropping the final 9 Ball!!!

Perk
02-10-2004, 07:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fleece3:</font><hr> How about showing a little RESPECT!!! <hr /></blockquote>

To gain respect ya must give respect. I wouldnt want my kids to act like that. He could have handled it differently, but the usual ass came out. He has respect as far as pool goes, but as a role model, hardley!

ChrisW
02-10-2004, 08:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fleece3:</font><hr>
You are wrong when you say he turn on Nick. He did not. He was very respectfully to Nick and the ref. Even shook both of their hands at the end of the match. He DID rub SH*T in the faces of the Euro fans and with good reason. The man is one of the greatest EVER. How about showing a little RESPECT!!! <hr /></blockquote>


I don't think he was respectful of Nick at all.
Ya, he shook his hand but I think it was nick who showed respect by taking it after Earl's dance number before the game was over. If Earl respected opponent then he should have held off his display until after the handshaking was done.
I am sure you are correct about the attitude of the fans and the pre-Davis match video but thats where it should stay. I don't feel Earl was wrong AT ALL for the interview after the match only his crap during the match even though he had it in the bag.

Chris' 2cents worth of crap

Steve Lipsky
02-10-2004, 08:29 AM
Hey Rich. I didn't forget that part - I never heard it. Did that come out immediately after the incident, or a while afterwards?

- Steve

Rich R.
02-10-2004, 08:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> Hey Rich. I didn't forget that part - I never heard it. Did that come out immediately after the incident, or a while afterwards?<hr /></blockquote>
Steve, it took a while to come out. I'm not sure if the umpire ever admitted it openly, or not, but there were a number of people who heard him and verified it. The league never really pursued it and made Alomar the fall guy.

To this day, Alomar gets different calls, from many umpires in the league, and the league officials ignore it. If there is a very close call, involving Alomar, there is a very good chance the call will go against him. Replayys have proven this.

I'm no Alomar fan, and never have been, but there are two sides to every story. He was not totally at fault.

If I'm not mistaken, that same umpire, and I don't remember his name, was involve in at least one other incendent, where he called a player a racist name.

Voodoo Daddy
02-10-2004, 12:56 PM
Gimme 10 Earl Stricklands...he is triple tough to beat and he wears his heart on his sleeve. Say what you will about his antics...he is the McEnroe, the Webber, the Howard Stern of our sport. People watch him for more than just his playing, they wanna see what he is gonna do next and if that creates controversy...so be it!!

Voodoo~~~Earl fan

Bob_Jewett
02-10-2004, 02:02 PM
I happened to be about 20 feet from Earl when he made his
comments and walked out of the interview. It's interesting to note why he was critical of Nick van den Berg. In fact, I think his criticism of Nick's game was valid even if Earl did not express it in a way that would lead Nick to use the advice.

If you have the match taped, watch and see if you can catch what Nick does, that most people would consider a major flaw and that no other player there did, that might have prompted Earl's comments.

I've seen Earl in several situations where he was in fact in the right (in some sense) but the way he put things turned most witnesses against him. He has a knack.

rocky
02-10-2004, 02:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> Gimme 10 Earl Stricklands...he is triple tough to beat and he wears his heart on his sleeve. Say what you will about his antics...he is the McEnroe, the Webber, the Howard Stern of our sport. People watch him for more than just his playing, they wanna see what he is gonna do next and if that creates controversy...so be it!!

Voodoo~~~Earl fan <hr /></blockquote>

Earl is alot of the reason that you dont see coke, pepsi, Nike, rebok or any of the car manuf. sponcering billiards except for someof the ladies. May be fun to watch but it is takeing the sport back years everytime he does it!

eg8r
02-10-2004, 02:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Earl is alot of the reason that you dont see coke, pepsi, Nike, rebok or any of the car manuf. sponcering billiards except for someof the ladies. May be fun to watch but it is takeing the sport back years everytime he does it! <hr /></blockquote> This is all assumed. Have you been in the Nike, Coke, etc boardrooms and listened to what they had to say after being pitched as a sponsor? I am going to guess you haven't. Did all the major sponsors refuse to endorse Tennis because of McEnroe, Bowling because of Webber???? Quit making Earl the fall guy.

eg8r &lt;~~~ Also an Earl fan

Voodoo Daddy
02-10-2004, 02:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rocky:</font><hr> Earl is alot of the reason that you dont see coke, pepsi, Nike, rebok or any of the car manuf. sponcering billiards except for someof the ladies. May be fun to watch but it is takeing the sport back years everytime he does it! <hr /></blockquote>

Actually Rocky...your not far off. The reason you DONT see those cooperate sponserships is called the inability to fill a convention center with fans. Rod Laver was the catalyst to get Volvo involved with WTA back in the early 70's because tennis is a stadium sport, its outside and it appeals to the spending public. Does pool have a person that can put the figures down for CEO-types...can you assure investors that you can pack a 15000 seat arena? I think not so dont be so fast to point the bad finger at Earl until you do some pointing in the mirror and ask "What have I done to promote pool?" !!!

Steve Lipsky
02-10-2004, 04:05 PM
Hi Bob. I haven't seen the match. Was wondering if you could elaborate on what you mean (Nick's flaw)?

Thanks,
Steve

Bob_Jewett
02-10-2004, 07:20 PM
Hi Steve,

If no one else notices the flaw, I'll speak up.

PQQLK9
02-10-2004, 07:28 PM
I have not noticed anything after watching it several times of which Earl dominated the table.
If this was something that Nick did at the table the telecast only showed him scratching in an earlier game and running out to get on the hill.
What am I missing?

CaptMorgan
02-10-2004, 07:40 PM
I was born in Greesboro (where Earl is from) and lived about 20 mins North of there my whole life until the past few years so I must admit I'm a little partial here but I'd say that in a match such as this where intesity is in the air and so thick you can cut it ppl are going to say some silly stuff. We're all human and make mistakes. I once saw Allison Fisher bean Jeanette Lee in the finals and Allison jokingly said something to Jeanette about the size of her trophy being bigger than Jeanette's. I saw this and my first impulse was "wow that was kinda tacky and rude" but I'm sure that afterwards Allison realized it could have been handled differently but you can't take things back so easily, especially after it's covered by ESPN. I still love to watch Allison and when I get to see Earl I love to watch him play too. These people and are human and we shouldn't be to quick to burn them at the stake. But controversy makes good TV so...

Ralph S.
02-10-2004, 11:00 PM
If we are talking about Robbie Alomar the baseball player, the umpire involved in the initial incident was John Hirschbeck. And yes, the umps have been very biased against Alomar ever since, yet he is still one of the best baseball players on the diamond.

cueball1950
02-11-2004, 01:10 AM
Did anyone else happen to notice that Earl was the only U S player not wearing a UPA patch. Sorta made him stand out in my opinion. Sorta like he was on his own out there. But i was glad to see when it was over that they all hugged each other. Even earl and charlie hugged. almost fell off my chair when that happened. Also ask earl about a british fan calling him an old man during his play. And why is it the euro fans get to heckle our players when they are shooting and quiet when a euro is shooting. Earl even mentioned the disrespect of the euro fans........................mike

boalt06
02-11-2004, 01:53 AM
Fleece,

1. I always enjoy your posts.
2. How can I view the mosconi cup.. DO they sell copies? OR better yet, a free option.

THank You,
EG

PQQLK9
02-11-2004, 06:32 AM
The Mosconi Cup is on ESPN 2 again tonight at 11PM Eastern time.

tateuts
02-11-2004, 07:30 AM
Earl was goading the crowd by putting down their player. First he made a comment about the age difference. Then he criticized the the European fans. Then he intimated that a player like Van Den Berg could win even if he knew "nothing about the game". Then he said something that Van Den Berg couldn't break from the middle of the table without "breaking his hand".

My suggestion - if you want to respect Earl, watch him play to see his greatness and plug your ears when he talks.

As far as Van Den Berg goes, he has great talent and I think he will continue to be a champion for many years to come. Hopefully he will be a champion on and off the table.

Chris

tateuts
02-11-2004, 07:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> Hi Steve,

If no one else notices the flaw, I'll speak up. <hr /></blockquote>

The tape is irritating because our edited version only really shows Earl at the table and only a couple of shots of Van Den Berg's. In earlier matches, I noticed a tendency for him to pop-up on the shots. He's a nervous, fidgety type of player. But last year he was even more jumpy. Like a lot of Europeans, he uses the open bridge a lot. I think he has a great game, especially for his age.

Chris

Bob_Jewett
02-11-2004, 12:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
our edited version only really shows Earl at the table and only a couple of shots of Van Den Berg's. I <hr /></blockquote>

Well, then, I guess I have to fill things in. I was there for the whole match. Nick has a severe case of elbow drop. At times you could see his tip flying in the air and the butt or forearm clacking against the table. I think it's something he should fix. As Earl pointed out, if Nick had to break from "the box" (near the head spot), that much elbow drop could be fatal to his grip hand. It is the style of a beginner, and shows that with enough practice, almost any style can be made to work.

PQQLK9
02-11-2004, 12:36 PM
Thanks Bob,they never showed Nick breaking but Earl did comment that if he (Nick) had to break from the box he would probably break his hand.
Earl also questioned how well Nick would play when he turns 40.
That gives this 63 yr. old some hope /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

tateuts
02-11-2004, 02:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> Nick has a severe case of elbow drop. At times you could see his tip flying in the air and the butt or forearm clacking against the table. I think it's something he should fix. As Earl pointed out, if Nick had to break from "the box" (near the head spot), that much elbow drop could be fatal to his grip hand. <hr /></blockquote>

Very interesting. And I just thought Earl was ranting. Thanks for the insight. ESPN must think we just want to see our guys because we're Americans. This sort of international contrived rivalry is a little much for me. I like to watch the other players too, especially Steve Davis, Mika Immonen, and Thorsten Hohmann.

Chris

thecardman
02-11-2004, 04:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr>
Nick has a severe case of elbow drop.<hr /></blockquote>

Mr Jewett

Many thanks for that! I had not noticed that with Nick's game until you mentioned it and now, on watching the whole match on video, it is as clear as day!

Personally, when Earl mentioned about "...make him break from the box... he'd break his hand!" (paraphrased), I thought he was having a go at Steve Davis from the night before. Personally, for the Mosconi Cup where the Sardo Tight Rack is used, I think they should break from the box, but that is just my opinion.

Bob_Jewett
02-11-2004, 07:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr>
I like to watch the other players too, especially Steve Davis, Mika Immonen, and Thorsten Hohmann. <hr /></blockquote>

Then go watch the tournament in person. I had no idea of what to expect, except that it was a little boisterous in Europe. I really enjoyed it even with a mild case of the flu. The 2004 event will be in Europe, and might be worth a trip -- Christmas shopping in London? -- but the 2005 event is supposed to be back in the US.

02-12-2004, 11:37 AM

Sally
02-12-2004, 11:51 AM
Forgive me for piping up here, but even if Nick Van den Berg played stark naked with his hair on fire, I don't believe that gives anyone the right to criticize him. And Bob, if you were sitting 20 feet away from Earl as I was during Mosconi Cup, you know what he said to the audience. There's no excuse for that.

Frank_Glenn
02-12-2004, 02:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Just to mention here: Did you know that the latest edition of Inside Pool Magazine named Earl the Sportsman of the Year!!!!!! You have got to love it. Go Earl. <hr /></blockquote>

Not really, read the article.

thecardman
02-12-2004, 04:08 PM
What did Earl say (I don't expect exact words - maybe just initals with stars)??? It certainly was not heard during the TV broadcasts here in the UK, but the commentators mentioned that "words were said" between Earl and the Euro fans.

Thanks

thecardman
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bob_Jewett
02-12-2004, 08:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sally:</font><hr> Forgive me for piping up here, but even if Nick Van den Berg played stark naked with his hair on fire, I don't believe that gives anyone the right to criticize him. <hr /></blockquote>

I disagree. Above I pointed out a flaw in his technique. I think I have the right to do that, and I think that is criticism -- perhaps constructive criticism if it's valid and Nick acts on it. Earl has a right to "talk trash" if he feels like it, and the tournament organizer has a right not to invite him back if he thinks that's damaging to the event, and we have the right to criticize Earl for how he handles these situations. And we even have the right to send comments to Matchroom Sport if we would like things to go differently next time.

Qtec
02-13-2004, 06:26 AM
Bob,how would you rate Earl,s performance in that match.

Qtec

JimS
02-13-2004, 08:00 AM
I agree with you Bob that Earl has the right to act in any manner he chooses but, of course, his actions may bring unpleasant consequences for him.

I believe that it's very clear why Earl acts the way he does; Earl is emotionally immature.

He either cannot or will not control his emotions and when his emotions reach a certain level of intensity he "acts out"...he allows his emotions to come to the surface and be expressed in socially unacceptable and inappropriate ways. He has tantrums and acts like a very young child and then often blames others or situations for his behavior.

There is nothing you can do to "make me mad". The truth is that something happens in my world and then I choose to respond. Earls responses are sometimes immature (and so are mine but I'm not in the spotlight).

Sally
02-13-2004, 11:14 AM
I believe in my article I wrote that he threw the European audience two choice but unprintable words. And as he stormed out of the arena, he referred to the fans as f-ing idiots.

Bob_Jewett
02-13-2004, 09:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Bob,how would you rate Earl,s performance in that match. <hr /></blockquote>
I don't recall his play, but I'd seen a lot of matches by then, and I was watching elbows.

As far as his behavior towards the audience and such, it's not how I would behave, and it makes me embarassed to be on the same "side" and/or a fellow pool player, but I'm not sure it's an unadulterated disaster. Was McEnroe good for tennis, etc. etc.? It certainly gives us something to jaw about, and I was delighted that his perhaps too severe comments were partly about what I had been watching for.