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SPetty
02-10-2004, 07:16 PM
Has anyone seen this book? Any reviews?

The Eight Ball Bible (http://www.8-ballbible.com/)

Ralph S.
02-10-2004, 10:54 PM
I have seen it for sale in a variety of places. I have yet to read it. I will be purchasing it soon though. Looks like it could be a good read.

dmgwalsh
02-11-2004, 05:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> Has anyone seen this book? Any reviews?

The Eight Ball Bible (http://www.8-ballbible.com/) <hr /></blockquote>

I bought the book. It looks real good. Plenty of in-depth writing and good diagrams. It deals mainly with barbox 8 ball, and since my league plays on nine footers, I put it down for now and will get back to it later.

The author, R Givens (Randy, I think) is a good guy. I've talked to him on the phone a few times. Here's an email from him regarding 8 ball on small versus large tables:



"This style is more effective on bar tables because safety play is so much easier.

The bottom line is that 8-ball is a different game on a big table. As my friend Bunny Rogoff (one of the best bar table 8-ball players ever aka "Pots and Pans") says "8-ball is a different game on a big board. A shot maker can dominate on a big table. That rarely happens on a bar table. You've got to know how to play the game to win on a small table."


Just to show that he means what he says Bunny busted Keith McCready on a bar box four or five years ago (Bunny is over 75 years old). For those who don't know, McCready is one of the best money players on the planet drunk or sober.


The ideas in The Eight Ball Bible apply in any style of 8-ball and to other games as well. It's just much harder to play a good safety from rail to rail on a 4-1/2 x 9. The balls are less congested on a big table making aggressive play more effective.


One night after a bar league match some of us went to a pool room. No one made a table run on the bar tables all night. But we ran out 4 of the first 10 games on the big table.


As I say in the book there is a long line of big table players who shoot better than I do who went down to defeat on a bar box because of a superior strategy.


Enjoy the book and keep us posted."
R Givens

sandgnat
02-11-2004, 08:05 AM
Thanks for the terrific post. Very insightful and good food for thought.

Fred Agnir
02-11-2004, 08:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmgwalsh:</font><hr> For those who don't know, McCready is one of the best money players on the planet ...<hr /></blockquote>... and a CCBoard contributor.

Fred

SpiderMan
02-11-2004, 10:20 AM
The author asserts that he makes the shot of "Sample 4" 4 out of 5 times! I'm going to have to set it up and try it, I wouldn't have thought it would go that often. If I make it 1 out of 5, I'm going to start practicing it a little.

SpiderMan

Wally_in_Cincy
02-11-2004, 10:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> The author asserts that he makes the shot of "Sample 4" 4 out of 5 times! ...<hr /></blockquote>

It would be easy to scratch if the 1-ball were the cue ball so maybe he's not totally whacked. 80% though? I'm skeptical.

I'm certain Fast Larry could do it though.

RailbirdJAM
02-11-2004, 08:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmgwalsh:</font><hr>Just to show that he means what he says Bunny busted Keith McCready on a bar box four or five years ago (Bunny is over 75 years old). For those who don't know, McCready is one of the best money players on the planet drunk or sober.<hr /></blockquote>

Four or five years ago, Keith and Bunny never played.

They did play, however, when Keith was a 17- or 18-year-old. He said Bunny looked like a guy that couldn't play, and Keith spotted him three balls playing 8-ball, and Bunny "hustled" him. Keith was following him around town for a week after that, trying to get him to play again, but to no avail. He lives in Vegas now and is known as "Pots and Pans." Keith has always admired Bernie's gift of gab.

RailbirdJAM

Scott Lee
02-11-2004, 09:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RailbirdJAM:</font><hr> He lives in Vegas now and is known as "Pots and Pans." Keith has always admired Bernie's gift of gab.

RailbirdJAM<hr /></blockquote>

Just so you know, Bunny has been known as "Pots &amp; Pans" since the 50's. It is not a new nickname. Since Keith is an itinerant "hustler" himself, I find it humorous that Bunny could 'hustle' Keith, at any age! Of course, I remember Keith when he was 17 too...brash, obnoxious, and cocky...and a GREAT player! I like him better today than ever, and I wish him the best, in his efforts to get back on top!

Scott Lee

Perk
02-12-2004, 08:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> The author asserts that he makes the shot of "Sample 4" 4 out of 5 times! I'm going to have to set it up and try it, I wouldn't have thought it would go that often. If I make it 1 out of 5, I'm going to start practicing it a little.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Last night I tried this shot over and over at home. I wasnt able to make it consistently. I was like 1/10 or close to it. I then tried the long version of it, and couldnt come close. For .80 percent I think may be impossible, since there are TOO many variables for this shot to be high percentage. IMO

Rich R.
02-12-2004, 08:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> The author asserts that he makes the shot of "Sample 4" 4 out of 5 times! I'm going to have to set it up and try it, I wouldn't have thought it would go that often. If I make it 1 out of 5, I'm going to start practicing it a little.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>
Could someone put this shot on the WEI table, for the rest of us to see? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
02-12-2004, 09:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Could someone put this shot on the WEI table, for the rest of us to see? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

1-ball caroms off 11-ball into pocket A

START(
%Ag4Y9%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%Kl8Z9%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pa3W1%Qs3B1%Ue5Y1%V a8W4%Wk5Z7
%Xh3Y9%_r8D4%`p0M9%al2Y6
)END

Rich R.
02-12-2004, 09:16 AM
Thanks Wally. Looks like a very interesting challenge.
Is the object to make both balls, or just the one?

Perk
02-12-2004, 09:42 AM
http://www.8-ballbible.com/MindBuster.html

Stripes played safe, and the object is to make your last solid and get shape on the 8ball. I tried it a few times, and it seems that I would have a higher success rate trying to kick the solid in, or pocket his ball and roll forward trying to freeze on the rail for a difficult shot for stripes....I will try it again tonight, see if it works better.

Eric.
02-12-2004, 11:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RailbirdJAM:</font><hr> He lives in Vegas now and is known as "Pots and Pans." Keith has always admired Bernie's gift of gab.

RailbirdJAM



<hr /></blockquote>

FWIW, I think Pots n Pans got his nickname from his day job selling, well, pots and pans...


Eric

Rod
02-12-2004, 11:58 AM
Hi Rich,

The striped ball is actually off the rail a little by the first diamond. It is a rail first shot. As viewed by the original diagram at the web site, Diagram (http://www.8-ballbible.com/MindBuster.html) it would send the solid to the opposite corner and most likely make both balls. As the striped moves up the rail towards the side you have to hit the rail even farther back from the stripe to carom the solid in the corner. That makes the shot more difficult.

Rod

cycopath
02-12-2004, 01:27 PM
I picked it up after seeing the ad in Inside Pool a couple of months ago. It took awhile to get it, but the guy kept me informed of delivery times and what not. He seems like a stand up guy.

I've only thumbed through it at this point, but it looks like a real winner as far as bar table 8 ball goes. That's what my league play is so I figured it was natural I should own the book. It appears to be well worth the remarkably inexpensive price of 29.95 + S/H. It's really quite a large book, loaded with info.

If bar table 8 Ball is your game, I'd definitely say this book is worth your time to get.

Popcorn
02-12-2004, 04:59 PM
I haven't seen Rogoff in, must be 25 years. I didn't run around with him or anything, but did go places with him from time to time. He was a real hustler in every sense of the word, but I am sorry to say he played drunks and on the lemon so often, when he had to play a tough player he could not get there. You got tired of all the negotiating and scheming, trying to make a lock game, when you could just get up there and play without the BS. I hate that pretending you can't play and stuff. What if someone there wants to bet it up and you have been acting all night like you can't play. It is just bad in my opinion, but, there are guys that have spent there whole life doing it. I think he would rather play a sucker for $10.00 a game, then play a player for a $100.00 an game, even with a 70-30 the best of it. Quite a character, and he was a very good player at one time.

Bob_Jewett
02-12-2004, 07:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Perk:</font><hr> http://www.8-ballbible.com/MindBuster.html

Stripes played safe, and the object is to make your last solid and get shape on the 8ball. ... <hr /></blockquote>

I think that the fact that you hit rail first does not make the shot easier. You have about the same difficulty of shot if you put the stripe about ten inches out from the side pocket, and your ball back two diamonds, and then try to play your ball off the stripe into a corner pocket. In the non-rail-first version, I think it might be possible to set up a reasonable 80% shot on a small table using the half-ball angle. I think anyone who gives up 3-1 odds on the rail-first version will lose unless he sets up exactly the same shot every time and hits the ball very consistently.

I suppose the shot is something to keep in the back of your mind, and it is a good illustration of interesting escapes, but it's a recipe for losing your rent money on a tight table.

Perk
02-13-2004, 06:52 AM
I definately agree, this is not a a high percentage shot.

ajrack
02-14-2004, 12:46 AM
He has been in Vegas for many years and goes by the handle "The Governor"
When he first showed up in Vegas I saw him playing a guy for $50 a game 8 ball and while his opponent was shooting at the table he was trying to sell small stuffed animals at the bar for $3 !!!