View Full Version : The Diamond System
02-11-2004, 08:58 PM
I need some help learning the Diamond System. I have Byrnes Book and I am reading it now but by the time I get to the table I can't seem to use the info and just guess. I have noticed that there seems to be different systems? How did you learn it?
02-11-2004, 09:51 PM
I put labels on my table (back when I had one) to help me learn it but to be honest I never really found it to be of great use to me, I do better just to trust my instincts for kicks but others swear by it so who knows.
Heres a few links I found, maybe it will help you.
Diamond System (http://www3.sympatico.ca/eric.perreault/diamond_system_en.html)
#2 System (http://www.easypooltutor.com/article32.html)
#3 System (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/8972/lessons/pool_howto.html)
There are many systems. I really don't know many and have forgotten some of the systems I have looked at. Since I don't get to play billiards much I have not really missed it. However, I will probably buy the 4 volume Billiard Atlas books and work through a bunch of shots. Just because.
You, OTOH, live in Golden. So you need to drive down the hill and take some billiards lessons. Denver has some very good billiard players who can help you with some systems. Get on a good billiard table and hit a lot of system shots and take some lessons. Give up the pockets for a while and you'll learn some systems. A good 3C instructor can probably steer you to the right books in addition to Byrne's.
If you are already taking some lessons forgive me. But if not poke around Shakespeares and get some. Allen Gilbert was there for a while. If he still is, take lessons. Don't tell me you missed Jaspers and Ceulemans there this summer tho. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
02-12-2004, 09:26 AM
Thank You I am checking those out now!
02-12-2004, 09:37 AM
Thank You. You must be in this area. I have been to Shakespears only once at Christmas time a couple of years ago. I play at Brooklyns in Arvada. I am keeping the name of the instructor because I have wanted to take a lesson but I don't know where to start or what to tell him or her what I need to work on because it seems that I need so much. I am in a kind of information overload what to use what not to worry about for now etc. ummm err...I hate to say it but I dont know who those people are that mentioned that I shouldn't tell you I miss seeing them....I wont say it then...*L* /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I used to live in Denver. Shakespeares was opened when I didn't play much anymore, and then I moved away. Brooklyn's wasn't open. (Well, there was a bar over by the stadium with that name, did they move? No pool tables then) Anyway, I went in to shakespeares one day and hit some around and Allen Gilbert was practicing. He won the US 3C championship many times. He gave some lessons there. He introduced himself as billiards players actually do and didn't seem to mind when I sweated him instead of beating the rails on an adjacent table. If I had stayed in Denver I would have taken some lessons and played billiards at Shakespeare's a lot. There are other good players who live in denver or spend some time there. Billiards players also tend to be more helpful than pool players. I never had a formal lesson from a billiards player. Their strokes and bridges tend to look a bit different. They tend to have short bridges and have a bridge that looks more comfortable on centerball or follow shots. They also tend not to do anything funky with their wrists, as you shouldn't. A good billiards player can do amazing things with the cueball though. It sometimes looks like they have a motorized ball with remote control or something.
Ceulemans is one of the best billiards players in history. He sent 3C averages through the roof. He is 65 or so now and still plays real strong. Jaspers is a top billiards player. They did some kind of thing at shakespeares last summer after the big tournament in las vegas. A 2 day clinic or something with limited attendance. I wasn't there either. Billiards is a beautiful game. Since you live in an area where the game hasn't died you should play it some. Even if you only use it to learn where the cue ball is going in pool it is worthwhile.
02-13-2004, 07:25 AM
You're assuming he knows what "billiards" is. I think he needs a diamond system for pool.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> You're assuming he knows what "billiards" is. I think he needs a diamond system for pool. <hr /></blockquote>
Well, he said he has Byrne's book and that has a few billiards diagrams in it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I know he needs it for pool and plays pool, not billiards. Perhaps I was unclear, but that's why I call pool pool and billiards billiards. I don't own them, but it looks like thiose Billiard Atlas books have a ton of diamond systems, many of which can be used for pool. A lot of the systems are basically the same.
Perhaps I also failed in my post. But when a player is interested enough in cue sports to get to this board, I think it is time they spend some time on a table with no pockets. For all kinds of reasons. Mostly because it is a great game and needs to make a comeback. Also, for pool to thrive, people need to know that billiards exists and to play it. When pool was a big sport billiards was probably bigger. Bar table league pool will kill our sport eventually if people don't graduate to other games. One game they should graduate to is 3 cushion. To play 3C properly you need an expensive well maintained table in a pool hall with some space. If billiards is around the other games are doing ok. So I tried to post in a way that will get him to go to one of the nicest billiard rooms in the country where he WILL meet excellent players who will help his game. The worst that happens is that he will improve his pool. The best is that he will learn a great game he can enjoy the rest of his life and meet some good people.
And I don't know when I will make it to Denver again. But if I go there I will pack a cue and hit shakespeares with anyone who has never played billiards. I play maybe 2X a year on a bad table and can't play well. But I like the game and will play with anybody if they have any interest at all. Or even if they don't. And I never scratch in the side pocket at least.
02-13-2004, 09:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluey2king:</font><hr> I need some help learning the Diamond System. I have Byrnes Book and I am reading it now but by the time I get to the table I can't seem to use the info and just guess. I have noticed that there seems to be different systems? How did you learn it? <hr /></blockquote>
I learned from Hoppe's book, since Byrne hadn't written any books at the time. As others have mentioned, there are in fact many diamond systems. I had a hard time learning from the book, and it would have helped if there had been a good teacher around, to show the arithmetic (and label the diamonds as suggested earlier) and to make me do examples.
You haven't said yet whether you play on a table with or without pockets. It's important to notice that the systems change a little depending on the kind of table, so if a particular system doesn't work well for you, it might not be your fault.
Whether you should spend time on systems depends on how well you play. If you don't run the whole rack once a night at pool, or make 25 points at 3-cushion in less than 100 trips to the table, it will be better for you to wait until your stroke develops more consistency.
As far as the instructor goes, if they're any good, they should be able to figure out what you need to work on. You might try saying, "I want to make sure my fundamentals are OK, and then maybe learn about a few diamond systems."
02-17-2004, 12:39 PM
Thanks Bob! I play 8 and 9 ball APA leauge on barbox tables. I have just purchessed a 4x8 table with Simonis 860. I have never played true billiards. I just got used to the term because of the confusion with pool (swimming) doing searches on the web. I feel the knowing the diamond system would really help with safty play getting out of jams and putting the oponet in one. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
05-06-2004, 08:51 PM
Its a bit late but this may help
www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/ (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/) technical_proofs/TP_7-2.pdf
05-06-2004, 10:23 PM
Hi there i like the dimond system that Dr. Cue has. I have seen a lot of them and i thing this is the best one to learn. You can find it here if you like. Or if you are going to Vegas for the bCA or the VNEA he will be there for both. Go here http://www.themonk.com/ look for Monk Videos and you want the 202 series. If you have a TV around your table you can learn this system in a matter of days. Hope this helps. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
05-07-2004, 08:32 AM
I find the problem isn't to understand diamond systems, I understand them when I read them and lay a chart out next to me with the values for the diamonds and that formula and I'm all set. I have no problem doing the arithmetic in my head, but there is a serious problem for us memory challenged individuals. I think if you learned the system young it probably stuck, but if you came to the game late remembering it is a major problem.
On one of his tapes Jimmy Reid has a pretty good system (which I can't really remember /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif) based upon using a landmark (spot on the wall for instance) to line up on then adjusting where you line up on that landmark for the number of rails you kick. Matter of fact I think I'll drag that tape out and reveiw that method.
I think like bank shots for most kicks, even multi-rail, the best method is to take a lot of them in practic and thereafter just trust your instincts. Some how or other I bet that is what my hero Efren does.
05-07-2004, 08:51 AM
Well if you have a home table,you could use some stickers on your table.That's what I did, and played around with the system for awhile.Now I don't really use the system at all.
But I think it's good to learn, and increase your knowledge base.
05-07-2004, 01:00 PM
I guess you're talking about the Hoppe "Corner 5" or 3 rail system?
It's a good system but it has a few adjustments depending on where the CB lies. I don't have the time to go into all of it(there are many adjustments, sorry). Best I can say is that it is very useful for kicking and figuring position routes for the CB in games like 9 ball. Instead of numbering the Diamons 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, etc, use 15, 20, 25, 30. It makes it easier to be more precise. Also, there are generally 3 zones for the CB to start in: "No adjustment, short angle, Long angle". N"No adjustment" is usually between CB Diamond 40 to CB Diamond 55. These kicks are best played with a Dead Ball, no english.
If you're really interested, buy a book on it. Try "The Billiards Atlas". It's not the best written explainations, but if you are somewhat experienced you can figger it out.
*I just realized someone dredged this post up from 1952. I hope you're still around and see these posts, Blu.
05-07-2004, 03:12 PM
Yes I am still around /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif
And tonight we are in the playoffs in 8 and 9 ball.
Wish me luck!
Thanks to all the responders! This fourm has help me a lot!!
I picked up some great tips here. Someone post a thread about banks shots that Helped Soo much!! Now I have a plan and a good chance of making them, and I have made several that my team thought were luck.
"The more I pratice the Luckier I get"
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