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Grady
02-24-2004, 02:02 PM
I'd like to see the results of all the voting for this year's and any other year's HOF procedures.Billiards Digest and the BCA do things in far too secretive a manner for my tastes.
It's about time that a really qualified panel of dignified experts, 100 per cent excluding industry magazine editors, was formed, for the purpose of selecting HOF inductees.
This post isn't about me. I've come to the point where I could care less about the machinations and deceit of the BCA and BD too, for that matter.No, friends and pool lovers, this post is about "Bugs", Ronnie Allen and Jersey Red not being in the HOF.
There exists no rationalization or sound basis for this. In fact, it's insulting to have the BCA and BD love how Johnston City, gambling and guys like "Bugs", Red and Ronnie played and excited thousands of fans and then exclude them and their ilk from the HOF.
It's a disgrace, ladies and gentlemen and I'd like to begin a groundswell movement to: a. Get these guys and some others inducted, as they so richly deserve and b.Get rid of the 6 to 8 man comittee that currently, in total secrecy as far as I know,conducts highly suspicious voting for the HOF.
Thanks for your kind attention, Grady

shoop1969
02-24-2004, 02:44 PM
I think one of the main problems is the failure of the BCA to have a mass induction of legends at the inception of the HOF. The game of pool has a long, rich history, and the BCA's restriction at the number of inductees leaves literally dozens of deserving players out in the cold.

Bugs, Ronnnie Allen, Jersey Red, Cornbread, ...not to mention more contemporary players like Allen Hopkins who has given alot to the game.

By the way Grady, Buddy Evans from St. Louis says hello.

Kato
02-24-2004, 03:32 PM
When baseball writers and what not vote for the Hall of Fame you always know who is on the ballot and then the percentages. I'm not positive who votes but many people on ESPN will say if they have a vote or not so I'm sure there is a list out there for public viewing. I'm not much for small committees, especially if they don't rotate.

I think the rich history of our sport needs to be:

1) Written about in detail

2) It's greatest "legends", not just tournament pros, need to be put on display for all to see and hear about. That would include your gamblers as well as tournament players.

Of course, I wouldn't know Ronnie Allen from the gas station attendant down the street but that's why I'm not qualified to vote.

By the way, baseball has a "veterans committee". Maybe pool needs something like that to make sure the "legends" get their just due.

Kato~~~ain't no legend

frog
02-24-2004, 03:47 PM
I lost all respect after the induction of Ewa. She might play at the 7speed level maybee. A sports HOF should be for people who excell at the sport, not photogenic, nice, intellegent people, who are mediocre in the field.

shoop1969
02-24-2004, 03:54 PM
I think most objections are not about who's in, they are about who's OUT.

Pelican
02-24-2004, 05:04 PM
I think they should be retired from the game to be eligible. How many active football players are in Canton?

NH_Steve
02-24-2004, 06:16 PM
Let's not forget that the BCA is essentially an industry trade association, that has simply laid claim to being the sole and true official representative of cue sports in America, despite little or no true representation from actual professional players over the years. In fact, the BCA has often been totally at odds with professional players. Despite the fact that the BCA reflects many of the heavy hitters of the U.S. billiards industry, the BCA does virtually nothing towards the promotion of a viable professional player's tour -- even though they consider themselves the 'official' voice of US cue sports. Anyone who wonders why more sponsorship money doesn't flow into the professional tours need only look at the near total lack of support from the BCA and their industry partners. Why should outside industries like brewers, apparel, etc consider jumping in to promote a game when the game's own principle corporate insiders treat their top practitioners as pariah?

Of course there are notable exceptions, like Mark Griffin of Diamond that do an incredible amount to support tournaments, but that is all independent of the BCA.

The BCA may have started with a few players (hand-picked, no doubt, by the industry bigwigs who actually ran the show), and with a commitment to professional players, but that facade collapsed a long time ago. Now they seem to do the absolute minimum for the pros that they think they can get away with, and still cling to their claim of credibility in representing the US in the Olympic effort...

With them so decidedly out of touch with the best players, how can we be surprised that they do a lousy job picking players for the HOF???

I hope I'm wrong about this, but from here, that's what it appears to me, sadly. Please somebody correct me and restore my faith.

And many many thanks to companies like Diamond that do indeed give so much genuine support to the players, without casting unrealistic judgment on their personalities or their 'matching up' practices -- and without requiring the wearing of tuxedos /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chris Cass
02-24-2004, 06:42 PM
Hi Grady,

I'm interested on how they do qualify people for this HOF. IMO, I think they should induct people who have gave'n to the sport in many ways. I'd like to see my friend in the HOF. He's always been a great opponent. He's a really nice man and always conducts himself in a stand-up way, since I've known him. That's since the early 80's. I've played many tournaments with him in the field. Sent him packing one time and still remember him telling me how well I did. You might know him or have heard his name. It's not as world know as yourself but to many he's the tops. His name is Willie Munson.

Regards,

C.C.

Ralph S.
02-24-2004, 08:11 PM
Willie Munson, eh Chris.

Ralph S.>always knew the Cassman kept good company. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cueball1950
02-24-2004, 08:33 PM
When is everybody on here going to realize that the HOF or whatever it is is nothing more than a self serving corporation/organization that will and does induct into its paper(or should i say closet, as it has been described on here) HOF. There is no real HOF. NO building or facility to visit and see the past. Therefore it is just a (non existant) PAPER HOF. What is to stop Grady from starting his own Road players HOF. sure would be alot more interesting I'll bet.........................mike

rukiddingme
02-24-2004, 08:35 PM
There are lots of people who have made great contributions to this sport..."Sailor" comes to mind
ruk

Frank_Glenn
02-24-2004, 09:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cueball1950:</font><hr> When is everybody on here going to realize that the HOF or whatever it is is nothing more than a self serving corporation/organization that will and does induct into its paper(or should i say closet, as it has been described on here) HOF. There is no real HOF. NO building or facility to visit and see the past. Therefore it is just a (non existant) PAPER HOF. What is to stop Grady from starting his own Road players HOF. sure would be alot more interesting I'll bet.........................mike <hr /></blockquote>

Don't hold back, tell us what you really think /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

cueball1950
02-24-2004, 09:54 PM
thanks Frank for your kind words. I think i have already expressed my views enough. This is the only SPORT that has no actual building you can go visit to see our great players of the past. To keep inducting people into something that does not exist is a farse. Show me a building i can visit and then i will give the pool hall of fame some legitimacy. Hey grady. why don't you open your own road players hall of fame. i bet it would be a big hit with the public..........................mike

Bob_Jewett
02-24-2004, 11:22 PM
As I mentioned over in that other forum, the ballots for this year's HOF voting are available at Meritorious Service (http://www.sfbilliards.com/ballot_ms.gif) and Greatest Player (http://www.sfbilliards.com/ballot_gp.gif)

Grady, much of what you've said indicates that you don't understand the HOF process very well. You may want to see how it works before you criticize it.

I believe that anyone may nominate someone to the HOF. Here is the current description of the two categories:

Two categories have been established in BCA's Hall of Fame. The Greatest Players category shall be reserved for outstanding players who have been active in national or international competition for at least 20 years and have won at least one national or international championship. The Meritorious Service category shall be reserved for those who have made lasting, memorable and important contributions to billiards.

Kato
02-25-2004, 07:01 AM
Down here in South Florida we have the "Polo HOF" and we also have the "Fishing HOF". Nothing says excitement like Polo /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Kato~~~not trying to tick off the elitist polo players on the board. Please remember to always replace your divots but watch out for "The Steaming Divot" /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
02-25-2004, 07:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cueball1950:</font><hr>
...This is the only SPORT that has no actual building you can go visit to see our great players of the past....<hr /></blockquote>

There's a bowling HOF building but nobody goes there /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I agree with you though Mike. It would not have to be anything huge or elaborate, just some type of display for now and for posterity.

dmgwalsh
02-25-2004, 10:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> As I mentioned over in that other forum, the ballots for this year's HOF voting are available at Meritorious Service (http://www.sfbilliards.com/ballot_ms.gif) and Greatest Player (http://www.sfbilliards.com/ballot_gp.gif)

Grady, much of what you've said indicates that you don't understand the HOF process very well. You may want to see how it works before you criticize it.

I believe that anyone may nominate someone to the HOF. Here is the current description of the two categories:

Two categories have been established in BCA's Hall of Fame. The Greatest Players category shall be reserved for outstanding players who have been active in national or international competition for at least 20 years and have won at least one national or international championship. The Meritorious Service category shall be reserved for those who have made lasting, memorable and important contributions to billiards. <hr /></blockquote>

Ok, so who decides who gets on those ballots?; and
Who gets to vote? and how has that been determined?

These might be areas that should be explored and changed if possible. Is there a procedure or a process set up within the bca to give anyone input into how these things are decided? Dennis

Chris Cass
02-25-2004, 10:38 AM
Nice Ruk,

That's what I'm talking about. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.

Chris Cass
02-25-2004, 10:40 AM
I never knew that Mike.

Regards,

C.C.~~starting my own. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
02-25-2004, 10:46 AM
Thanks Bob,

That seems tough but fair in it's description. Guess, I need to send in a nominee or two. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~30 yrs and still learning everyday. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RailbirdJAM
02-25-2004, 11:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Thanks Bob. That seems tough, but fair in its description. Guess I need to send in a nominee or two. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif<hr /></blockquote>

The BCA did invite the public's input on 11/28/03:
http://www.azbilliards.com/2000pressrelease.cfm?id=207

It would be interesting to see the names that were submitted.

RailbirdJAM

Voodoo Daddy
02-25-2004, 11:32 AM
I just recieved this via fax;

Dear Mr. Kato,
As a past President of the POLO HOF, I find your remarks unkind and unheralded. I request you to strike all unbecoming POLO comments and restrain yourself from using us as an example in the future.

Thank you,
Biff Snodgrass

Voodoo~~~making light of an obvious ugly. touchy subject

Kato
02-25-2004, 11:44 AM
Voodoo, I know that there aren't many people that you don't know but Polo? Wow, you're reach is farther than I thought.

But hey, what are you're feelings about the HOF? I'd nominate you. All you've done is be a road warrior, a teacher, mentor, and innovator. You da man and I'd nominate you!!!!!!!!

Kato~~~that and $1.88 gets you a large coffee at Border's /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Voodoo Daddy
02-25-2004, 11:49 AM
Thanks KATO for the nod but I wouldnt accept a induction when their is dozens of players that deserve a spot in the HOF. Personally, I once thought of the HOF as a honor but now I feel its a buddy list contest, IMO!!

Voodoo~~~voted for KATO three years runnin

Bob_Jewett
02-25-2004, 01:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmgwalsh:</font><hr>
Ok, so who decides who gets on those ballots?; and
Who gets to vote? and how has that been determined?

These might be areas that should be explored and changed if possible. Is there a procedure or a process set up within the bca to give anyone input into how these things are decided? Dennis <hr /></blockquote>
The members of the HOF Committee are listed on the BCA web site. The BCA issues requests for nominations. The ballots I gave links to explain more. If you want to change how the BCA operates, you will probably have to join either as a business member or get elected to the Board as the player member. How the elections work and the members of the nominating committee are listed on the BCA web site.

#### leonard
03-02-2004, 08:47 AM
Canton now that is a name that should be in the Hall of Fame. Joe 5ft3 won the National Championship in 1951 the second year the table size went to 4 1/2 x 9. Jimmy Moore always said if he knew what Joe knew about 14.1 Mosconi would never beat him. In fact Mosconi refused to play him a match on the small table at Julians in NYC. He would only play him on a 5x10.####

#### leonard
03-02-2004, 08:58 AM
Chris if you see Willie give him my regards.####

bigalerickson
03-02-2004, 09:12 AM
not a one

Chris Cass
03-02-2004, 09:59 AM
Huh, You know Wille? Wille is no Joe Canton but he does bring IMO something good to the sport. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~a #### Leonard fan for life.

#### leonard
03-02-2004, 01:50 PM
Chris, I would play Willie in between games at Mike Ashes in Elizabeth, NJ in the 60s. HE would only play me for 10 a game. I didn't care it was always an enjoyable time.####

wolfdancer
03-02-2004, 11:15 PM
Kato, I'm steaming over your post attacking such a noble cooperative endeavor between man and beast...and I'm not referring to certain pool matchups.
The poor timing of your malicious post, coincides tragically with my plans to plea to the board members to fund my dream of bringing Polo to the poor, underprivileged, inner city youth...modeled after Tiger's highly successful "First Tee"program. I call it "First Chukker"...that's chukker, not choker. Get these kids on the backs of ponies, and get them off our back...and a bonus...if they get interested in polo...maybe I can get a tee time at the local golf course, and not be afraid to set my bag down, while I step inside the clubhouse

Kato
03-03-2004, 12:15 AM
Sorry Wolf, I've been known not of which I speak /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kato~~~non-polo player, worse than poor golfer. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Vagabond
03-03-2004, 05:28 AM
Howdy chriss,
I also know the ``Beed Man`` well and last time I met him was in 1994-95.Cheers
Vagabond

Chris Cass
03-03-2004, 07:14 AM
Hi ####,

I myself would be honored to give you 10 a game. I think that experience is well worth the money, education wise.

Regards,

C.C.~~didn't know Willie got around that much.

Chris Cass
03-03-2004, 07:17 AM
Hi Vegabond,

You sir never cease to amaze me. You sure get around more than most roadys I know. Including Voodoo. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regrads,

C.C.~~proud of his latest secret agent "The V-man". /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Vagabond
03-03-2004, 09:51 PM
Howdy chriss,
By any chance do u know how he is doing? cheers
vagabond

Chris Cass
03-04-2004, 12:52 AM
Hi Vagabond,

Can't remember the lastime I saw him. I think he showed at the Open but, I'm not sure. It could have been at the Windy City event at Pheasant Run. It's the Vicadin. It jarbles my memory a bit. One thing for sure. I'll never forget Willie.

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif