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Brian A
02-29-2004, 09:54 AM
i would like to purchase a starret level for doing pool tables. anyone know where i can get one?

Rod
02-29-2004, 10:13 AM
There are some for sale on ebay right now. starrett level (http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?from=R8&ht=1&satitle=starrett+level&sos ortproperty=1&sospellrecommendation=1)

Or do a google search.

Rod

Frank_Glenn
02-29-2004, 11:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> There are some for sale on ebay right now. starrett level (http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?from=R8&amp;ht=1&amp;satitle=starrett+level&amp;sos ortproperty=1&amp;sospellrecommendation=1)

Or do a google search.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>I bought an 8" Starrett level last week on ebay for $34. Shipping was $5.95. I am one happy camper. Mine was used, new ones are a little more. I saw a new 6" go for about $60 the day after I got mine. There were 2 bids when I placed my (first) bid. Nothing happened until 3 minutes before the end of the auction and then about 6 or 8 people started bidding. I just kept raising the bid by a couple of dollars and I won. Look at the feed back of the seller before you bid. Lots (several hudred) of positive and no negative feedback and you should be OK. Good luck.

PS a new one is about $200 retail, I think

NH_Steve
02-29-2004, 12:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Brian A:</font><hr> i would like to purchase a starret level for doing pool tables. anyone know where i can get one? <hr /></blockquote>I apologize in advance if what I am about to suggest is something you already know, but here goes /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

How to tell if a level reads 'level':

Lay the level on a flat surface that should be nearly level (such as a pool table). It should be in a specific, repeatable location. Note the bubble reading as precisely as you can of one specific bubble in the level (not a problem if there is only one /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif . Then reverse the level end-for-end, being very careful not to turn the level upside down, and set it down in the exact same location as your first reading. Again read the level and take note whether you are getting the exact same reading. If you get the exact same reading, you have a perfect level (that particular bubble -- that side up only!) . If your reading doesn't match, and your level has other bubbles -- or can be turned upside down, then keep trying each bubble in both orientations to see if you can get a matching reading when you reverse each bubble. If you get a matching pair of readings with any bubble both forward and reverse, then MARK THAT BUBBLE -- you've got a good level!

Troy
02-29-2004, 01:34 PM
A Carpenter's Level has multiple bubbles, but a Machinist's Level only has one bubble. Get a 12" for real accuracy leveling a table. New they run about $150.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr>I apologize in advance if what I am about to suggest is something you already know, but here goes /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

How to tell if a level reads 'level':

Lay the level on a flat surface that should be nearly level (such as a pool table). It should be in a specific, repeatable location. Note the bubble reading as precisely as you can of one specific bubble in the level (not a problem if there is only one /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif . Then reverse the level end-for-end, being very careful not to turn the level upside down, and set it down in the exact same location as your first reading. Again read the level and take note whether you are getting the exact same reading. If you get the exact same reading, you have a perfect level (that particular bubble -- that side up only!) . If your reading doesn't match, and your level has other bubbles -- or can be turned upside down, then keep trying each bubble in both orientations to see if you can get a matching reading when you reverse each bubble. If you get a matching pair of readings with any bubble both forward and reverse, then MARK THAT BUBBLE -- you've got a good level! <hr /></blockquote>

JimS
02-29-2004, 07:46 PM
I got mine on eBay and then I took it to a machine shop to have it checked out for accuracy. They did it free.

Brian A
03-03-2004, 05:13 PM
steve do you tables on a regular basis?i have never used a starrett level,and have trouble shimming and leveling tables.i live in nashua nh.can travel if your willing to
help me
thanks brian

NH_Steve
03-03-2004, 08:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Brian A:</font><hr> steve do you tables on a regular basis?i have never used a starrett level,and have trouble shimming and leveling tables.i live in nashua nh.can travel if your willing to
help me
thanks brian <hr /></blockquote>No, I don't do tables regularly, but I do levels regularly /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif installing kitchen cabinets. The only pool tables I have done have been my own every ten years or so...

Candyman
03-04-2004, 12:03 PM
Building a fine Hardwood Pool Table - Rustic Style
Leveling the Slate &amp; Filling the Seems
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Leveling Theories
There are two ways, that I've heard of, to level a table. The first, is to shim the three pieces of slate to one flat surface(explained below), then to level the table with shims placed under the legs. The second method, is to level the table first, as close as possible. Then level the slate while making the three pieces flat.

I chose method number two, for one reason - Luckily, my table was level as it stood.

Making the Slate Flat
Since the table itself was level, I simply needed to shim the three pieces of slate to act as one flat surface, and make them level, all in one swoop. To do this, I found the highest of the three pieces of slate. It took me two shots to do this...I thought I had the highest one, but after I was half way finished, I realized I didn't. No big deal. By finding the highest piece, you can then level it, then bring the others up to it, then to level.

I took a small drill bit, and made a pilot hole into the poplar through the pre drilled slate screw holes. Then I started the screws, so that they were in place, but not tight. I then took two decks of playing cards, and ripped them in half (yes, all at the same time.) Use these cards to insert between the poplar slate supports and slate backing. It's amazing how one card can make a difference. Get that first piece level (or flat, if you chose method 1.) Then we will move on to the others.

To check for level, I used several methods; one, a level. Two, I took one of the balls and spun it, then slightly tapped it so that it should spin in place. If it's off level, it will spin down hill. Three, I slowly rolled the ball each way across the table to see if it varied. Because of the micro grooves that are in the slate, sometimes the ball will tend to follow the grooves, so don't be confused if it rolls one way the first time, then the other the second. If it's off level, you will know. If it's on, you will wonder why the ball goes different ways each time. Just take your time, and you will get the hang of it. Once it was level, I inserted cards wherever a screw was, and where there was plenty of gap (to support the slate from sagging eventually.)

Next, take two strings and tightly fasten each of them to each end of your cabinet. So the strings will be running lengthwise on each side of the cabinet. You then take four quarters to prop up each string at the string ends. This will give you your line of flatness. Use a fifth quarter as a gauge. Starting at the seam where it meets the already leveled piece, bring the seams to the same height. Then shim the rest of that piece to the proper height of the string. Slide the quarter under the string. It should barely touch the little pieces of fur poking out from the string. Do this for each piece along the entire length of the string and check for level. This process will take four or five hours, but it's actually quite enjoyable. You get to roll your balls!!!

Before waxing, check it again. Feel the seems with your fingers, the ridge should be almost non-existent. If you roll a ball each way over the seem, it shouldn't make a noise, and it should not stop, or drop off the ledge. Add a card here, tighten a screw there, it will get there. The center screws should not be tightened unless there is a bow in your slate. Just snug them down gently to prevent a future bow.

Sealing the Seems
I took a propane torch, and a stick of very hard wax purchased from bestbilliards.com. I then slightly heated the slate itself, because wax likes warmth, then dripped the wax onto the seems. I dripped it about one or two inches wide. I did this in about 10" increments, then quickly ran the flame over the seem again to kind of spread out the wax, just a touch. After waiting about 10 seconds, I then took a paint scraper and scraped the excess wax off. After redoing a few areas several times, I discovered that laying a razor blade down almost flat, then scraping the wax off, worked much better than my plastic scraper.

Repeat this process for the screw holes also (in the middle seems only - the outer rim screw holes are buried under the rails and don't need to be filled.) The holes are a little more difficult to get perfect. But you can always remelt the wax and try it again.

NOTE: Some use alternatives to wax, such as Rock Hard. You probably shouldn't use wax if the temperature in the room will get above 90-degrees. The reason for this, is the wax can bleed into the cloth if it gets to warm.

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How to Recover a Pool Table

If doesn't help, Pm me and I will try to help. My expertise is leveling machine shop equipment, but I have leveled a table before. A couple of suggestions on what I did could save you some time. Instead of playing cards, go to an industrial suppy company and buy shim stock. Get .001", .005", .020". You can build about any thickness you need without getting to sloppy with these thicknesses.
Start with leveling the frame first, then place the middle slate on the framework first. I made sure that slate was highest to begin with by placing .025" shims under each bolt hole. Get it level by shimming the lowest corner first. Tighten bolts and recheck. Re-shim if necessary. Then work toward each end using the same technique. A metal straight-edge, feeler gauge, 1" mic or vernier caliper will help a lot. Lay the straight-edge on the middle slate and slide it slightly over the outer slate. The dowl pins will probable be holding it up at the same height as the middle slate near the inside edge and drop down toward the end of the table. You will need to slide the feeler gauge between the frame and bottom side of the slate near those dowls and add appropriate amount of shims. If you don't when you tighten the bolts near that seam, you will colapse the gap. Slide the straight-edge on toward the end of the table making sure the straight-edge is in firm contact with the middle slate. Use the gauge and check the gap between the slate and bottom of edge. Make up the same amount of shims and check for level. After I got everything level, I would make a sketch of the hole patterns and make a note of exactly what shims I used and what location they were in. This will help after the table has set for a while and needs to be re-leveled.

Putting the cloth on is touchy. It is easy to attach, but it has to be put on with just the right amount of stretch to have good playability.


Before installing the rails, check the BCA web site for the recommended hole tolerances and rail heights. A long metal straight-edge and a framing square should help you line these up.
I'm sorry this is so long. Hope it helps. Good Luck, Lock