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shoop1969
03-08-2004, 09:09 AM
This past weekend the poolhall where I work/play put on a fairly large handicapped tourney (2000 added, $40-80 entry, depending on skill level - we had around 90 entries).

Our skill levels were:

World Beater - race to 13
Champion - race to 11
Shortstop - race to 9
Player - race to 7
Novice - race to 4

The "Novice" class was really supposed to be for people who don't play much - 3's and 4's maybe (APA).

Anyway, some guy talked his way in at the Novice level - said he hadn't played in a couple of years and when he did he was a 3 in the APA.

About 5 minutes before the first matches I spy this guy in the back corner of the pool hall - he's sporting a circa early 80's Joss, and cutting balls across the end rail into the corners with almost no angle...and this is on a triple-shimmed GC.

Long story short, we started asking around, and found one guy who'd seen the dude playing as an A player in a tourney in the next state. We gave him his entry fee and told him to hit the road. Personally, if it were my place I woulda kept the entry and just disqualified him.

Have you guys had this problem in handicapped tourneys? If so, how do you handle it? The rest of the tournament went off without a hitch and with very minimal bitching about the handicaps.

SpiderMan
03-08-2004, 10:23 AM
Whenever there is opportunity, there will be cheats. That's one of the reasons that I finally just quit APA. The last straw was running into a team who happened to have a 5-rated player that I knew from the local gambling scene. He's a ball or two better than me in reality, but in APA I'd have to give him two games on the wire.

Talked to his captain casually about it and he said "yeah, we're trying to keep Bob at a five for the city tournament and 'Vegas. I just play him against lower players so he can get more innings in." I asked him if he didn't consider this cheating, and his response was "In 'Vegas, there will be plenty of 3's playing at that level".

SpiderMan

Rich R.
03-08-2004, 10:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Whenever there is opportunity, there will be cheats. That's one of the reasons that I finally just quit APA. The last straw was running into a team who happened to have a 5-rated player that I knew from the local gambling scene. He's a ball or two better than me in reality, but in APA I'd have to give him two games on the wire.

Talked to his captain casually about it and he said "yeah, we're trying to keep Bob at a five for the city tournament and 'Vegas. I just play him against lower players so he can get more innings in." I asked him if he didn't consider this cheating, and his response was "In 'Vegas, there will be plenty of 3's playing at that level".

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>
SpiderMan, I hate to disagree with you, but I believe problems like the one you mention have more to do with the people in the league that allow it. It is not the fault of the APA. The national organizatin can not possibly watch every player. It is up to the players on the local level to keep everybody honest.

dooziexx
03-08-2004, 10:44 AM
Anytime you throw in that kind of added money, the players just come out of the wood work.... And there will be a few that are sandbaggers trying to get in and steal the whole thing.

Chris Cass
03-08-2004, 10:46 AM
Hi Spiderman,

That's all to true about Vegas. I know who's taking off the open team event this yr. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Either John Lewis doesn't care, has part of the player, or just incompedent. Who else would let Bobby Pickle in the open singles when getting several calls on the matter.

The masters event is easy. Just lose two yrs in a row and your now a open player. I knew all this though before I went myself. I also know that there's atleast 1/4th of the open are master players. Out of 2000 players your better off playing the masters event IMHO. You know there's less players, more money, and you know the deal.

The other hand, you drop to an open status. Then, get a crack team of masters not labeled and you'll make money. However, with the overhead of the trip and stay, it's more of a vacation.

The BCA isn't all about Vegas anyway. It's the state operators that have the real say. It's those operators that need to come first, for the BCA. Those guys can make ya or break ya. What were we talking about again? LOL I don't know about you but, I feel better. LMAO

Regards,

C.C.~~home of the largest state tourney, or largest league. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bigshooter
03-08-2004, 12:21 PM
I had the opposite problem when I first moved to Tulsa noboby knew who I was and I used to play a ton in the 80's but have been away from the game for awhile but they always rated me way too high since I was an unknown and they thought I was trying to sandbag but in reality I was just struggling to get my game back to where it used to be but its a hard thing to judge someones speed if you don't have a track record for them.
I'm just glad I don't have to be the one to do it.

SpiderMan
03-08-2004, 12:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Whenever there is opportunity, there will be cheats. That's one of the reasons that I finally just quit APA. The last straw was running into a team who happened to have a 5-rated player that I knew from the local gambling scene. He's a ball or two better than me in reality, but in APA I'd have to give him two games on the wire.

Talked to his captain casually about it and he said "yeah, we're trying to keep Bob at a five for the city tournament and 'Vegas. I just play him against lower players so he can get more innings in." I asked him if he didn't consider this cheating, and his response was "In 'Vegas, there will be plenty of 3's playing at that level".

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>
SpiderMan, I hate to disagree with you, but I believe problems like the one you mention have more to do with the people in the league that allow it. It is not the fault of the APA. The national organizatin can not possibly watch every player. It is up to the players on the local level to keep everybody honest. <hr /></blockquote>

Rich,

We don't disagree, I never said that the national organization should or could control anything. I'm sure they would if they could, but as we both know they can't. And if it's up to the individuals, well some are honest and others aren't, so some will cheat and others won't. That's one reason why I'm done supporting it. The other reason is that I just don't like the format, designed to keep me in a bar for four hours straight with only 30-45 minutes of playing.

SpiderMan

Rich R.
03-08-2004, 12:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> We don't disagree, I never said that the national organization should or could control anything. I'm sure they would if they could, but as we both know they can't. And if it's up to the individuals, well some are honest and others aren't, so some will cheat and others won't. That's one reason why I'm done supporting it. The other reason is that I just don't like the format, designed to keep me in a bar for four hours straight with only 30-45 minutes of playing. <hr /></blockquote>
Sorry for my missunderstanding. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

mike_in_iowa
03-08-2004, 01:55 PM
cc, does this mean you will be going to the valley or bca state tourneys this year?


mike a

SpiderMan
03-08-2004, 04:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Spiderman,

That's all to true about Vegas. I know who's taking off the open team event this yr. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Either John Lewis doesn't care, has part of the player, or just incompedent. Who else would let Bobby Pickle in the open singles when getting several calls on the matter.
<hr /></blockquote>

Are you talking about Pickle on an open team, or in the open singles? Every open team can have one masters player. I'd be really stunned if they let him in the open singles this year.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>I also know that there's atleast 1/4th of the open are master players.
<hr /></blockquote>

That really hasn't been my experience. I've gone to the nationals all of the past ten years, always played open, and would be hard-pressed to call 1/4 of the field master players. I'd say at least 1/4 of the open field plays better than I, but that doesn't make them master's level. Maybe half of that 1/4 could hang in the master's.

Will you be there this year?

SpiderMan

Chris Cass
03-08-2004, 11:42 PM
Hi Mike,

Another congrats on the showing at the Windy City event if you didn't see the last congrats I posted awhile back. You done good.

Yes, for the love of a woman and a young boy I'm going to compete at the Ia State level tourney. I passed it up 2 yrs ago for Jackpot Junction. $10,000 added makes it tough to pass up. Anyway, Jackpot moved the dates and Heide has her heart set on it. The Spike miester /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif will make his dabue (sp) at VF this yr. Been trying to hold him back till 13 but he's determined at 11. LOL

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif,

C.C.

Chris Cass
03-08-2004, 11:53 PM
Hi Marty,

Naa, not Bobby. He's already labeled an Elite player I believe. Don't get the wrong idea. I like Bobby. He had my back at one tourney after Vegas. I don't want to spill the beans yet. But, it'll be close to home.

Bobby shouldn't have been allowed to enter in the open singles in 2002. Now, if you didn't know a players status then fine. The problem with that deal. Who didn't know Bobby? I was talking about the open team event and know that you can have a master on the team.

Maybe, 1/4 of the field might be an over estimate but I played 3 masters IMHO out of the 7 or so matches I had. See, the state level operators judge whos masters or not at their tourneys. Vegas, lets anyone who hasn't played in Vegas before, the right to play in the open event. Unless, they know the player.

Regards,

C.C.~~doesn't want John Lewis' job. between a rock and a hard place every yr. I imagine.