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ArNz
03-11-2004, 12:19 AM
what is back-hand english? is it the same as throw like when u compensate shooting using english?

also i've heard that back-hand english dsnt exist much on predator shafts.

cd anyone care to explain as im not really familiar with all these.

NH_Steve
03-11-2004, 06:17 AM
An instructor might have a more accurate description. But my understanding is that back hand english is a method of compensating for english-induced throw. To aim, first place your bridge hand and cue tip directly in line with your shot, directly through the center of the cue ball, then without relocating your bridge, pivot the cue with your back hand to get your desired english. That puts the juice on the cue ball, and it naturally alters your aiming path just a little to compensate for throw.

The other method to apply english is the parallel aim method -- where you shift your whole bridge hand over to stroke through the edge of the cue ball in a parallel line of aim to get your english. You have to use your judgment to 'feel' the proper compensation for english induced throw in that case.

Back hand english is a neat trick for getting a feel for proper compensation on english shots -- I think especially for inside english. There are nuances in the back hand method -- like how long your bridge is -- and of course other variables come into play depending on how far away the object ball is, how hard you are hitting, etc.

The whole issue points out the critical importance of getting an initial acurate bridge hand placement for good shot accuracy. To see just how important, try placing a good firm bridge nice and accurately, then close your eyes and shoot. You might be surprised how often you make the shot with your eyes closed. Back hand english is at work here, adjusting for inadvertent angling of the cue. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Troy
03-11-2004, 07:58 AM
An excellent description of "back hand english". And yes, it does tend to compensate for deflection/throw.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr>.....To aim, first place your bridge hand and cue tip directly in line with your shot, directly through the center of the cue ball, then without relocating your bridge, pivot the cue with your back hand to get your desired english. That puts the juice on the cue ball, and it naturally alters your aiming path just a little to compensate for throw.
<hr /></blockquote>

woody_968
03-11-2004, 09:08 AM
Nice reply Steve, cleared a few things up for me as well. Thanks.

ArNz
03-11-2004, 11:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr> An instructor might have a more accurate description. But my understanding is that back hand english is a method of compensating for english-induced throw. To aim, first place your bridge hand and cue tip directly in line with your shot, directly through the center of the cue ball, then without relocating your bridge, pivot the cue with your back hand to get your desired english. That puts the juice on the cue ball, and it naturally alters your aiming path just a little to compensate for throw.

The other method to apply english is the parallel aim method -- where you shift your whole bridge hand over to stroke through the edge of the cue ball in a parallel line of aim to get your english. You have to use your judgment to 'feel' the proper compensation for english induced throw in that case.

Back hand english is a neat trick for getting a feel for proper compensation on english shots -- I think especially for inside english. There are nuances in the back hand method -- like how long your bridge is -- and of course other variables come into play depending on how far away the object ball is, how hard you are hitting, etc.

The whole issue points out the critical importance of getting an initial acurate bridge hand placement for good shot accuracy. To see just how important, try placing a good firm bridge nice and accurately, then close your eyes and shoot. You might be surprised how often you make the shot with your eyes closed. Back hand english is at work here, adjusting for inadvertent angling of the cue. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>


damn! as what i expect of! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif thanx for the clear explanation steve. and also to the rest of u guys /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

rocky
03-11-2004, 12:23 PM
That was an excellent description. That is why alot of "seasoned" players have trouble shooting with a low deflection shaft. Over the years their mind has compensated for squirt with back hand english.

DoomCue
03-11-2004, 12:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr>But my understanding is that back hand english is a method of compensating for english-induced THROW.<hr /></blockquote>

Throw or squirt (aka cue ball deflection)? Isn't the classic BHE test done without an object ball (there's no throw without an OB)?

-djb

Bob_Jewett
03-11-2004, 01:52 PM
&gt; But my understanding is that back hand english is a method of compensating for english-induced throw.

Actually it's for squirt, which some wrongly call deflection. To complicate matters, in the UK, they say "throw" to mean squirt. In the US, "throw" means the change in the line of a struck object ball because of the friction at the contact point from the striking ball. Throw has nothing to do with the cue stick.

&gt; You have to use your judgment to 'feel' the proper
&gt; compensation for english induced throw in that case.

You always have to compensate for squirt, swerve and throw on sidespin shots, and it has to be by feel.

&gt; Back hand english is a neat trick for getting a feel
&gt; for proper compensation on english shots -- I think
&gt; especially for inside english.

I think that while it is useful for beginners to show them roughly how much squirt compensation is required for a fairly squirty shaft, it is not good enough to make most sidespin shots on a table with tight pockets.

Fred Agnir
03-11-2004, 04:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr> But my understanding is that back hand english is a method of compensating for english-induced throw. <hr /></blockquote>This is incorrect, though the rest of your post is fine. Back-hand english is a method of compensating for squirt, not english-induced throw. Maybe you mean "what the English snooker players refer to as 'throw'" ?


Fred

NH_Steve
03-11-2004, 08:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr> This is incorrect, though the rest of your post is fine. Back-hand english is a method of compensating for squirt, not english-induced throw. Maybe you mean "what the English snooker players refer to as 'throw'" ?
Fred <hr /></blockquote>Yeah I actually realized that after I left the house this morning -- meant to say 'squirt' -- it was early /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

NH_Steve
03-11-2004, 08:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr>
Actually it's for squirt, which some wrongly call deflection. To complicate matters, in the UK, they say "throw" to mean squirt. In the US, "throw" means the change in the line of a struck object ball because of the friction at the contact point from the striking ball. Throw has nothing to do with the cue stick.

<hr /></blockquote>Agreed 100% and that is indeed what I meant to say but my vocabulary was pre-coffee confused.