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View Full Version : SIMONIS VS GRANITO CLOTHS



cornercue
03-11-2004, 05:27 PM
CAN I GET SOME OPININS ON SIMONIS VS GRANITO CLOTHS FOR PLAYING 8 BALL AND 9 BALL.THANKS

kyhogan
03-11-2004, 08:00 PM
For a lack of other responses! All I've ever heard is Simonis antying else would be second rate.

mworkman
03-11-2004, 08:25 PM
I dunno. I bought Tour Edition 3030 from Championship. I love it. Seems very fast and looks good. Seems just as good as anything I've ever played on. I'm not sure if I've ever played on new simonis tho', just used. jm2c

Scott Lee
03-11-2004, 10:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote kyhogan:</font><hr> For a lack of other responses! All I've ever heard is Simonis antying else would be second rate. <hr /></blockquote>

Just goes to show you how misinformed people are. Gorina has been manufacturing pool and billiard cloth LONGER than Iwan Simonis. Simonis is indeed excellent quality. However, Gorina (Granito is one brand of Gorina cloth) is less expensive, plays faster, and wears better than Simonis.
It is definitely NOT second rate cloth. The owners were just too slow, years ago, to jump on the American pool tournament scene bandwagon, and Simonis got the "in"...
keeping them in the forefront of people's minds. Both clothes are very similar and competitive in all respects, except Gorina costs 20% less than Simonis.

Scott Lee

kyhogan
03-11-2004, 10:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote kyhogan:</font><hr> For a lack of other responses! All I've ever heard is Simonis antying else would be second rate. <hr /></blockquote>

Just goes to show you how misinformed people are. Gorina has been manufacturing pool and billiard cloth LONGER than Iwan Simonis. Simonis is indeed excellent quality. However, Gorina (Granito is one brand of Gorina cloth) is less expensive, plays faster, and wears better than Simonis.
It is definitely NOT second rate cloth. The owners were just too slow, years ago, to jump on the American pool tournament scene bandwagon, and Simonis got the "in"...
keeping them in the forefront of people's minds. Both clothes are very similar and competitive in all respects, except Gorina costs 20% less than Simonis.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Yah I was one of the smucks that fell for VHS when BETA was really better.

Ken
03-12-2004, 08:27 AM
Granito was used at the Patriot cup the first year. Greg Sullivan had it put on as an experiment to see how the pros liked it. Their opinions were that it was too fast. In the straight pool competition just the slightest hit on the rack would spread out many balls. It totally changes the game.

The next day J. Lee played a set of nine ball with C. Williams and they were continually missing position due to the speed of the cloth. If you want to make the game easy and not have to develope a stroke then use it.

The first time I played on it I made a draw shot and after the cue ball hit the object ball I watched the cue ball sit in one place spinning furiously backwards unable to grab the cloth and move back.

The purpose of the cloth is to slow the ball down. If you want a fast table then don't use any cloth.
KenCT

smfsrca
03-12-2004, 01:14 PM
I have yet to find anyone who can play on a recently covered table and tell me whether the cloth is Simonis 860 or Granito Basalt. Almost everyone I have ever met will assume it is Simonis even though it is Granito. I guess the only reason Granito is not as well known is the lack of advertising and limited distribution for their billiard cloth products. The parent company Gorino sells cloth for other purposes wheareas Simonis is billiards only.

Steve in CA

Scott Lee
03-12-2004, 06:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote smfsrca:</font><hr> I have yet to find anyone who can play on a recently covered table and tell me whether the cloth is Simonis 860 or Granito Basalt. Almost everyone I have ever met will assume it is Simonis even though it is Granito. I guess the only reason Granito is not as well known is the lack of advertising and limited distribution for their billiard cloth products. The parent company Gorino sells cloth for other purposes wheareas Simonis is billiards only.

Steve in CA <hr /></blockquote>

This is exactly what I was trying to say in my earlier post. No disrespect to Kyohogan was intended...

Scott Lee

kyhogan
03-12-2004, 09:49 PM
Oh no disrespect taken on my behalf. I was just trying to get the topic ball rolling.

denoandrews
03-13-2004, 01:13 AM
Only two cloths serve the upper echelon of the sport...Granito and Simonis. There are no other cloths that compare as they are the only two high quality worsteds. There are other types of cloth that are more economical, but you are obviously looking for the good stuff. Basically, you can't go wrong with either, although Granito is better IMO. I must also note that I was the U.S. manager for Granito for three years, but it's not that cause of my bias.

There are two types of Granito for pool- Basalt and Tournament 2000. Some have reported that speed on Granito is an issue- only on the Tournament 2000, which is really fast cloth. Had those people played on Basalt, nobody could have told the difference between that and Simonis 860.

At the time of my employment there, Basalt had 94% worsted wool and only 6% nylon...compared to Simonis's percent in the high 80s for wool and the rest nylon. Nylon=white spots.

The weave is tighter on Basalt than on Simonis. Basalt is slightly more difficult to install because it doesn't stretch nearly as much as Simonis. But think about it...a cloth that stretches during isntallation means that it will be ever stretching and becoming slightly loose over time. ever seen a Simonis covered table with cloth that wasn't super tight?

I don't mean to knock simonis as it is also a very superior cloth. The bottom line is that either one you choose is just fine...and most players can't tell the difference between the two...that's Basalt and 860. Stay away from the tournament 2000 unless you want a very slick and fast cloth.

Deno J. Andrews

Ralph S.
03-13-2004, 01:15 AM
I have played on the Gorina {Granito} brand cloth one time that I am sure of the brand. All I have to say, is its like playing on a smooth sheet of thin ice. Thats how fast this stuff plays when maintained properly. It can be a real stroke destroyer. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Paul_Mon
03-13-2004, 08:21 AM
Someone recently told me that Granito does not have a top side and a bottom side. This would mean that Granito could be flipped over after a few years of use. Any truth to this?

TIA......Paul

Fasteddy7
03-13-2004, 08:33 AM
I have had Granito cloth on for a year. It has held up great and has played consistent throughout this time. Buy granito, save money without sacrificing quality.

Lanny
03-14-2004, 07:41 AM
Gorina's website says that the Basalt cloth is 88% wool and 12% nylon and doesn't state the weight per yard or meter.

Simonis' website didn't give the percentages,but several commercial websites stated that the 860 was 90% wool and 10% nylon and weighs 410 grams per square meter.

Diamond's "About Us" page states that the 860 is 100% wool with a nylon backing.

Lanny

denoandrews
03-18-2004, 02:29 PM
There is a top side and a bottom side. However, it is virtually impossible to differentiate them by eye or even feel. Some people do flip the cloth, but it is problematic. The cloth is designed to create the flattest possible surface next to slate. When the cloth is played on, dimples, scratches, little holes, etc., are created on the top of the cloth. If you flip that over, the new bottom side will not be a good foundation for the other side which will play like new for a week or so before you start noticing funny little rolls. If purchased on sale, you can usually pick up a nice Basalt piece for a very reasonable price. If going through the process of recovering the table, it is best to simply replace the cloth then.
Deno

tito
03-19-2004, 12:16 PM
Hi, Iīve got GT 2000 ( Gorina Tournament 2000), itīs a really got cloth to play 8 ball. If you want to play 9 ball the best choice is Simonis 860, itīs more faster than GT 2000. Gorina basalt itīs a good cloth too for 8 ball, but I didnīt play with it yet.

Csabus66
05-18-2007, 02:40 AM
Hi! Ive a question: Where you bought Gorina Cloth? I build an old small (7ft) table and I need it. Help me, please! Csabus

scaramouche
05-18-2007, 03:40 AM
For what it's worth

From the specifications I've seen:

Simonis 860 is 23 oz.
Tour Edition 3030 from Championship is 24 oz.
Granito Tournament 2000 is 25 oz.

tjlmbklr
05-18-2007, 09:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote kyhogan:</font><hr> For a lack of other responses! All I've ever heard is Simonis antying else would be second rate. <hr /></blockquote>

Just goes to show you how misinformed people are. Gorina has been manufacturing pool and billiard cloth LONGER than Iwan Simonis. Simonis is indeed excellent quality. However, Gorina (Granito is one brand of Gorina cloth) is less expensive, plays faster, and wears better than Simonis.
It is definitely NOT second rate cloth. The owners were just too slow, years ago, to jump on the American pool tournament scene bandwagon, and Simonis got the "in"...
keeping them in the forefront of people's minds. Both clothes are very similar and competitive in all respects, except Gorina costs 20% less than Simonis.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Well said Scott. As a matter of fact I might be re-doing the cloth on my table with Granito Tournament 2000 cloth. I have Simonis 860 now.

BLACKHEART
05-18-2007, 04:28 PM
I don't think anyone answered the question. HOW DO YOU TELL THE "UP" SIDE, OF EITHER OF THESE CLOTHS...JER

tjlmbklr
05-18-2007, 09:26 PM
Oh trust me you'll know the difference on Simonis. I had, or should I say have an issue with my cloth. I feel it is too fuzzy. I won't get into it again, but I had to convince people that I wasn't just blowing steam up they're a@#. Most though the pictures i posted were the cloth upside down; but they were not.

cushioncrawler
05-19-2007, 12:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> Granito was used at the Patriot cup the first year. Greg Sullivan had it put on as an experiment to see how the pros liked it. Their opinions were that it was too fast. In the straight pool competition just the slightest hit on the rack would spread out many balls. It totally changes the game.

The next day J. Lee played a set of nine ball with C. Williams and they were continually missing position due to the speed of the cloth. If you want to make the game easy and not have to develope a stroke then use it.

The first time I played on it I made a draw shot and after the cue ball hit the object ball I watched the cue ball sit in one place spinning furiously backwards unable to grab the cloth and move back.

The purpose of the cloth is to slow the ball down. If you want a fast table then don't use any cloth. KenCT <hr /></blockquote>Ken -- Re the qball backspinning but being unable to come back -- the slipperyness of the cloth determines the amount of backspin that u can get, and the speed of the cloth determines how far the qball will come back. The length of time that the qball seems to "sit there", with backspin, will not have any effekt on how far it ends up coming back.

But i think that i agree with u re cloth speed. The speed shood be not too slow and not too fast. Everyone seems to be missing the main issue -- it all depends on the speed of the cushions. Cushions too shoodnt be too fast nor too slow. It appears that K55s etc are a terrible design or something -- too slow. Thusly all of u guys need a very fast bedcloth. But a very fast bedcloth iz too fast for some shots, eg the break shot.

In english billiards, a long time ago, players and manufacturers were aware of issues like the speed of the cloth and the speed of the cushions. It woz known that a very slow cushion needed a very fast cloth, but that this woz a terrible combination. Likewize, a very fast cushion needed a slow cloth, and this woz terrible allso. But, the pool fraternity up there put up with krap cushions, and put up with having to uze fast cloths, and not one player ever starts a proper debate about the real issue, the krap cushions. madMac.

Greg in VA
05-19-2007, 08:36 AM
My friend wanted the "fastest cloth possible" on his Gold Crown III......I had read on here long ago about Granito Tournament 2000 and told him about it. Well, it is like playing on formica! He is arguably the best player in town, and really only plays at home these days. As a result he is TOTALLY acclimated to the speed difference between his cloth and Simonis 860. (which is what the rest of us play on). It is a HUGE advantage for him as we all struggle with speed playing on his table. The only reason I even go is cause I figure to beat the other two guys in the game so I don't get hurt money wise. (momma didn't raise no fool) /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If you stand at the foot of the table, and roll the ball into into the side rail with medium speed, it will cross the width of the table 5 times. You can roll it as hard as you can on my table, and you MIGHT get 4 rails! He had Accufast rails as opposed to Brunswick super-speed, they probably contribute to the difference also.

Bottom line....... Be REALLY carefull with the Tournament 2000.

tjlmbklr
05-19-2007, 08:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Greg in VA:</font><hr> My friend wanted the "fastest cloth possible" on his Gold Crown III......I had read on here long ago about Granito Tournament 2000 and told him about it. Well, it is like playing on formica! He is arguably the best player in town, and really only plays at home these days. As a result he is TOTALLY acclimated to the speed difference between his cloth and Simonis 860. (which is what the rest of us play on). It is a HUGE advantage for him as we all struggle with speed playing on his table. The only reason I even go is cause I figure to beat the other two guys in the game so I don't get hurt money wise. (momma didn't raise no fool) /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If you stand at the foot of the table, and roll the ball into into the side rail with medium speed, it will cross the width of the table 5 times. You can roll it as hard as you can on my table, and you MIGHT get 4 rails! He had Accufast rails as opposed to Brunswick super-speed, they probably contribute to the difference also.

Bottom line....... Be REALLY carefull with the Tournament 2000. <hr /></blockquote>

My issue with the Simonis is it's like I have tiny broken fibers. Pictures don't do it any justice. I tried emailing Simonis and she said it looked fine. I still haven't had any basis for comparison yet. The only high speed cloth I've played on is Granito Tourny 2000 and my Simonis.