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View Full Version : Let's Define Slop



Sid_Vicious
04-25-2002, 03:55 PM
I've been bothered by the discussions here on slop and wanted people's ideas of the details of what defines slop. If we are playing any game(9-ball excluded) and I miss an intended pocket but rat in something into another pocket then that is definetely slop. If I make my ball in the intended pocket but I carom off of another ball or rail on the way there I do not label this slop. Really, the word slop sounds like you just mangled your shot and got rediculously lucky, and I do NOT see anything but making balls in unintended pockets as that word, slop.

So let's get clear here. Who thinks that I slopped in a ball when I call a corner pocket shot with another ball sitting there for sideboards and happen to nick that ball before going down, all without calling anything BUT the intended pocket.

You see folks what slop is to some may merely be petty "crybabying" by others...sid~~~I'll welcome call 9-ball but take that carom & kiss crap out of the equation, just call pocket

cheesemouse
04-25-2002, 04:22 PM
Sid,
When I rare back and say "this baby is gettin six chance to go" you know I'm trying to slop the ball and if it does happen to go I will laugh my ass off and stick it to ya!!!!! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

04-25-2002, 05:26 PM
I agree, that if there are balls around the pocket and you kiss of one of them, it isn't slop. But if the ball you kiss off is a foot away form the pocket, unless you were playing that kiss, I would call it slop. Or if you are firing a ball that is a couple of inches off the side rail into the corner pocket and it goes up & down the table 2-rails and goes in the called pocket, I would call that slop. Jim R.

Sid_Vicious
04-25-2002, 06:20 PM
Sounds like an accurate assessment to me as well, but I still uphold the BCA view that if it gets into that intended pocket is is legal. This merely takes the argument out of the scenario over what degree of off-target defines bad enough to call slop. Those shots you describe are very few and far between(IMO), even with the bangers it is more likely to be some other pocket altogether, not the real odd ball two rail miss to end up in the correct pocket...sid~~~seen it happen but not ofter enough to change a ruleset over

Rod
04-25-2002, 08:54 PM
Sid, I don't call that slop. I just say it's fortunate that other ball was there. What I do define as sloppy play is when someone caroms off 1 or more balls with the c/b to get position. It's pretty obvious when that happens. I see that happen quite a lot, and it's only a question of time until they get hooked. I move balls for obvious reasons, but unless it's necessary I'd rather keep the balls as they lie.

phil in sofla
04-25-2002, 09:18 PM
I disagree, a little.

If the ob 'nudges' another ball on its way in the pocket, basically having the correct line already to pocket the shot, and the nudge just re-directing it to another part of the pocket, that seems as you say, not slop.

However, if you hit it bad, where it was going to definitely hit the rail instead of the pocket facing and go in, and the carom angle gives you the made shot, then that IS slop, IMO.

Not that it shouldn't count. I do believe in call pocket only. Just that, being realistic, you missed the shot in the scenario I raise, and only by sheer luck got it to go, in a way you definitely didn't plan.

Ralph S.
04-26-2002, 12:24 AM
In my opinion there are some justifiable points made so far on the topic of "slop" in this thread , but I have to agree pretty much with Sid on this one.
Ralph S.

Chris Cass
04-26-2002, 03:36 AM
Sid,

Personally, I call it slop if I contact any rails at all. I even count the soft rail. When I cut a ball or bank it, I don't even want to see nothing but net.

Now, when I'm playing someone else besides myself. Heck, I'll take anything baby. Funny how the better you get, the harder it is to slop a ball in. Wierd isn't it?

Regards,

C.C.~~agrees with Sid.

04-26-2002, 07:04 AM
Every sport has its "slop" to one extent or the other. The frequency in pool may be more obvious than in other sports simply because the playing field is smaller and there are six pockets available. Having played golf for forty years I can tell you that many shots, called "ugly but useful" get to their intended target but not in the way the golfer had invisioned. Slop is everywhere; baseball, football, tennis and marbles. You just may not call it slop. Slop is good. It makes sports more interesting. I like slop.

PoolFan
04-26-2002, 08:44 AM
I'm in full agreement here with this assessment also. Even in 9-ball over 90% of the shots are obvious, even if a player does not call it. That two rail scenario does come few and far between.

I'm not so pretentious to be a purist of the game to the extent of calling rails and caroms. Man, if that were the case innings in 9-ball would constantly be turning over. If you nick a ball by the pocket so be it. Hell, I play those shots knowig that I have side boards as do top players. Do I want my object ball to hit the heart of the pocket every time, of course I do. Does that happen all the time, not even close.

End result, if I have to play a banger, I'm up for it. I know in the long run skill will always rule over luck. I actually happy to play lesser players who feel that they need to ride the 9 to win against me. That means I get more chances at the table. Let's face it with more chances at the table the better player will come out on top.

rackmup
04-26-2002, 12:29 PM
Is it written ANYWHERE that all kisses, caroms & rails must be called prior to each shot? I don't believe so.

Most games (excluding 9-ball) require only that "ball and pocket" be designated. I'm with Sid on this one.

I also agree with Chris as well...if, in my mind, I plan on pocketing a ball "clean" and it happens to hit a soft rail or kiss another ball before being pocketed, well...that's "sloppy" to me but legal nonetheless.

"NO SLOP" usually only exists in bars, on bar boxes, against players that don't know the true rules of the game.

Your best bet is to know the caliber and mindset of your opponent and have the rules laid out before ever racking the balls.

Regards,

Ken (only gets sloppy at the dinner table)

04-26-2002, 01:04 PM
I agree with your thinking, many times I have come up with no shot after a break but was able to combo something or carom the cueball off a ball to make another ball. This is not slop. The game of 14.1 covers the pocketing of balls in a reasonable way.

Chris Cass
04-26-2002, 01:28 PM
Ok,

Now, who out there tied up Rackmup and is using his computer? There's nothing funny only serious content.

Good post,

C.C.~~trying to learn how to be funny.

04-26-2002, 02:58 PM
I agree, slop is not illegial, it's just another name for luck or a good roll. It's like in football, a pass gets tipped and falls into the hands of a defensive player; or in basketball when the ball goes around the rim a couple of times before falling in; or in hockey, the puck deflects off a players skate and goes into the net. Why should pool be the only sport where you can't get a good or bad roll? As it turns out, the less skillful the player the more he needs slop, or luck to win. Jim R.

rackmup
04-26-2002, 03:47 PM
(I'm laying low...I've been surrounded by other posters...don't know their names...they use aliases and sneak around anonymously...and I'm looking for a way out. Send reinforcements if you can...they're sneaky little bastards...I don't think they know anything about pool or the pool movement. Don't worry about me...I am FINE. I will be out of here in a few hours and I will send you a post that will indicate my well-being and my freedom from the tyranny of those who wish to suppress me...remember the code words:

"The tips take Talisman to the top tier of the tourney tonight")

Freedom my brothers...freedom.

Ken (code word-"Ken")