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View Full Version : Tip SHAPING, best tool for the job, and how to?



Geoff
03-17-2004, 04:54 PM
What is the best tool for shapping a tip? I have a tip tapper, but as I understand it, this tool is not for shaping, but for getting the tip to hold chalk. My initial attempts with sand paper in hand, are not yielding good restults. I can not get a uniform, consistent radius. Is there some tool out there that makes it easy to shape to a dime or nickel radius? Could someone list the "proper" procdures for tip shaping, i.e how to do it, and maintenance? I see guys at my local room reaching for sandpaper every couple of games. I would like to get a good shape and then leave it alone, save the occasional tapping/scuffing. This is not a layered tip, if that matters. TIA, Im just starting out here and would like to learn to do this correctly, and spend my time concnetrating on my stroke, not equipment.

Sid_Vicious
03-17-2004, 05:23 PM
Here's the economical answer,,,get a piece of 3/4" PVC pipe, chop it into 8"-12" sections, and saw them in half down it's length. Get some adhesive backed sandpaper and use whatever grade you wish, taking a piece tailored to fit in the curvature of the half-piece of PVC, and sock it in there. I have several pieces of cut pipe, some has 120 grit and some with 60 grit for coarse shaping. You can also get bigger PVC, say 1" and make a big nickel shaper.

You can buy these pre-fab'd shapers too, but you'll pay for them. It's too easy to make several(IMO) These work ok by hand operation but any mechanized spinner will turn out a slicker shape...sid

UWPoolGod
03-17-2004, 05:26 PM
Yeah I use an Ultimate Tip Tool. I have a question for people who use those also. When using the "nickle" shape sander..do you grind on it until there is fresh tip showing all the way..or just the edges? Usually when I do it I end up with fresh tip on the outsides and the inner is still blued from chalk. I have a feeling I am not getting a true nickle shape by doing that.

bluewolf
03-17-2004, 06:35 PM
We bought the willard at VF last year. We bought the one for the dime shape and the one for the nickle shape.

Laura

Geoff
03-17-2004, 06:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Here's the economical answer,,,get a piece of 3/4" PVC pipe, chop it into 8"-12" sections, and saw them in half down it's length. Get some adhesive backed sandpaper and use whatever grade you wish, taking a piece tailored to fit in the curvature of the half-piece of PVC, and sock it in there. I have several pieces of cut pipe, some has 120 grit and some with 60 grit for coarse shaping. You can also get bigger PVC, say 1" and make a big nickel shaper.

You can buy these pre-fab'd shapers too, but you'll pay for them. It's too easy to make several(IMO) These work ok by hand operation but any mechanized spinner will turn out a slicker shape...sid <hr /></blockquote>


Hey sid, I actually have one of these laying around somewhere, using one of these would you simply work your way around the tip, holding the shaper at a constant angle to the tip? For example it the cue is straight up and down, hold the shaper at a 45 deg. angle to the tip (or whatever angle to achieve desired tip shape)? Seems simple enough.
I was wondering if there is some wonder tool out there that gives a "perfect" tip shape very time.

stickman
03-17-2004, 06:51 PM
I shape my tips on my lathe. I start with the sides. I turn them even with the ferrule and taper them very slightly to adjust for mushrooming. When doing the crown, I spin the shaft with the lathe and get the initial shape with my Dremel with a small sanding drum. I finish with the Williard dime shaper. Every once in a while, I have to turn the edge of the crown with the lathe cutting tool. If the sides aren't even from side to side, I have to use the cutting tool. Once the edge of the crown is straightened up, I use the Willard again to finish. You can quickly tell if the sides are uneven, because the Willard will wiggle when the sides aren't even. After that, I burnish the sides with a small bit of water on a Q-tip and burnish with leather. Like Spidey, I put a thin layer of Super glue on the side for a finishing touch. It's never caused a problem so far.

You don't have a lathe? Ask Spiderman or Sid Vicious how to build a crutch foot shaft spinner. I had one but the ex-wife kept it. It is inexpensive, easy to build, and very handy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Troy
03-17-2004, 07:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Geoff:</font><hr> Hey sid, I actually have one of these laying around somewhere, using one of these would you simply work your way around the tip, holding the shaper at a constant angle to the tip? For example it the cue is straight up and down, hold the shaper at a 45 deg. angle to the tip (or whatever angle to achieve desired tip shape)? Seems simple enough.
I was wondering if there is some wonder tool out there that gives a "perfect" tip shape very time. <hr /></blockquote>

The sandpaper in the holder works very well, just be patient. About the only thing approaches getting a "perfect" shape is having it done on a lathe.

Troy

Troy
03-17-2004, 07:17 PM
Sounds like the tool you're using has a larger radius than a nickel.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote UWPoolGod:</font><hr> Yeah I use an Ultimate Tip Tool. I have a question for people who use those also. When using the "nickle" shape sander..do you grind on it until there is fresh tip showing all the way..or just the edges? Usually when I do it I end up with fresh tip on the outsides and the inner is still blued from chalk. I have a feeling I am not getting a true nickle shape by doing that. <hr /></blockquote>

Sid_Vicious
03-17-2004, 07:47 PM
For merely shaping the crown, just run it parallel to the unround tip, and spin the shaft 180 to 360 degrees as you swipe the tool across it, and repeat. That crutch tool and a drill motor makes it a breeze!!!sid

Steve - Detroit
03-17-2004, 09:23 PM
You want a wonder tool that gets the right shape? Go out and buy the Ultimate Tip Tool and that's all you'll need. It has both nickle and dime radius shapers so you can experiment with the shape that works best for you.
They work great and its easy to replace the sandpaper.

BUT, when you've got the shape you want, put it away. Very occasionally you may need to touch it up but DO NOT use it to work on the sides of the tip, even though they claim you can perform all sorts of trim functions. If you do, you might want to get Troy's email because I guarantee you'll be seeking his services (or someone like him).

Troy
03-17-2004, 09:41 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve - Detroit:</font><hr> You want a wonder tool that gets the right shape? Go out and buy the Ultimate Tip Tool and that's all you'll need. It has both nickle and dime radius shapers so you can experiment with the shape that works best for you.
They work great and its easy to replace the sandpaper.

BUT, when you've got the shape you want, put it away. Very occasionally you may need to touch it up but DO NOT use it to work on the sides of the tip, even though they claim you can perform all sorts of trim functions. If you do, you might want to get Troy's email because I guarantee you'll be seeking his services (or someone like him). <hr /></blockquote>

buddha162
03-18-2004, 05:42 AM
I find that the Willard tip scruffer (I use a Nickel radius) gives the most uniform shape. The Ultimate tip tool is good too, but after you run out of the first sandpaper insert it's hard to get a perfectly true Nickel radius out of the replacement pads. I had trouble with it anyway.

With your feet, hold the willard shaper on the ground. I do this on carpet, since the underside of the shaper is rounded (very iffy design, imo).

Take shaft and insert tip into the shaper.

Putting NO pressure on the shaft, start twirling the shaft back and forth, like you're starting a fire.

To check that you're holding the shaft perpendicular to the floor as you shape, look at the shaft from different angles (move your head to the left/right, then back to make sure).

Every 5 seconds or so, rub the leather fibers off the tip with a paper towel, and dump/blow the fibers out of the willard.

Check shape with an actual nickel, holding it up against a light source.

-Roger

Wally_in_Cincy
03-18-2004, 07:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve - Detroit:</font><hr> You want a wonder tool that gets the right shape? Go out and buy the Ultimate Tip Tool and that's all you'll need. It has both nickle and dime radius shapers so you can experiment with the shape that works best for you.
They work great and its easy to replace the sandpaper.

BUT, when you've got the shape you want, put it away. Very occasionally you may need to touch it up but DO NOT use it to work on the sides of the tip, even though they claim you can perform all sorts of trim functions. If you do, you might want to get Troy's email because I guarantee you'll be seeking his services (or someone like him). <hr /></blockquote>

Good advice.

Geez. All the guy needs is a cue cube or an ultimate tip tool and you guys have got him buying pvc pipe and a bandsaw and a lathe and building a crutch tip home-made lathe and trimming and burnishing and aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh...........

SpiderMan
03-18-2004, 10:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Geoff:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Here's the economical answer,,,get a piece of 3/4" PVC pipe, chop it into 8"-12" sections, and saw them in half down it's length. Get some adhesive backed sandpaper and use whatever grade you wish, taking a piece tailored to fit in the curvature of the half-piece of PVC, and sock it in there. I have several pieces of cut pipe, some has 120 grit and some with 60 grit for coarse shaping. You can also get bigger PVC, say 1" and make a big nickel shaper.

You can buy these pre-fab'd shapers too, but you'll pay for them. It's too easy to make several(IMO) These work ok by hand operation but any mechanized spinner will turn out a slicker shape...sid <hr /></blockquote>


Hey sid, I actually have one of these laying around somewhere, using one of these would you simply work your way around the tip, holding the shaper at a constant angle to the tip? For example it the cue is straight up and down, hold the shaper at a 45 deg. angle to the tip (or whatever angle to achieve desired tip shape)? Seems simple enough.
I was wondering if there is some wonder tool out there that gives a "perfect" tip shape very time. <hr /></blockquote>

Geoff,

If you have to hold it at a 45-degree angle, you're using the wrong tool. Are you trying to use one of those "universal shapers", a sandpaper holder with a fairly flat contour, that is sometimes used to both shape the crown and trim the sidewalls? That device is too "flat" to do the best job on the crown.

Whenever you have to eyeball the angle (45 or whatever) all around the tip, you are going to have trouble getting it even. What you should use is a shaper whose curvature exactly matches the desired crown radius. That way, you sand perfectly flat across the top of the tip, holding the tool at exactly 90 degrees. That's a lot easier to hold constant than some arbitrary angle. Just rotate the shaft (spinning is even better if you have a crutch tool or lathe) as you pull the shaper across the top of the tip at 90 degrees.

BTW, as Sid alluded, if you split a piece of 3/4-inch pvc pipe, it will have almost a perfect penny radius when lined with a strip of self-stick sandpaper.

Here's a picture of the tool you should make:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkychateau/detail?.dir=/Erwin+Cue&amp;.dnm=a868.jpg

You use it by sanding straight across the tip at 90 degrees, so no "judgement" is required to get it even:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkychateau/detail?.dir=/Erwin+Cue&amp;.dnm=Shaped+Elk+Master.jpg

SpiderMan

Geoff
03-18-2004, 11:40 AM
LOL, man you guys must think I'm a real moron! I was totally in the dark about these tools and the proper use. Yeah, the sand paper holder thing i have is not the correct tool for the job, similar, but way to flat. Thanks for all the info. Ultimate tip tool ordered, PVC bought, done deal. At least now I will know that I am doing this properly. Thanks for helping a newbie out. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

woody_968
03-18-2004, 11:55 AM
LOL Wally, some of us do tend to get a little excited when it comes to repair and maintenence tools /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I still use the standard tweeten sandpaper thingy like what Sid makes. Best "tool" I ever purchased.

Regulator
03-18-2004, 10:44 PM
Hi Spiderman,

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a picture of the tool you should make:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkychateau/detail?.dir=/Erwin+Cue&amp;.dnm=a868.jpg

You use it by sanding straight across the tip at 90 degrees, so no "judgement" is required to get it even:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkychateau/detail?.dir=/Erwin+Cue&amp;.dnm=Shaped+Elk+Master.jpg

<hr /></blockquote>

I understand the sander. What shape do you make with the gun? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan
03-19-2004, 09:25 AM
HaHa, that's not pool-related. I use the Yahoo account to post all sorts of pictures, and the gun was one from my collection that I had for sale recently. Guess I forgot to delete it.

SpiderMan