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View Full Version : A good win last night



Wally_in_Cincy
03-19-2004, 07:37 AM
I was fortunate enough to beat an APA 7 last night for the first time. The race was 5-3 and I won 3-0. He was not shooting very well. He probably missed 4 balls in the match.

First game he broke and came up dry. Because the balls were spread pretty well I had to be aggressive. I nailed this bank shot into pocket A and ran out from there.

wei table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

START(
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%PH8R6%QZ5\0%UU8F7%VI9Q7%W[2Y9%XX3C7%YW3D0%ZV9D4%_q5N0%`c2E5
%aW4E9%b_1V5%ch5T0%dq7O7
)END

Do not be afraid to play safe with ball-in-hand. I played a killer safe on this guy and then with BIH I played this which allowed me to get BIH again and win the match.

START(
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%Nn6L4%PE5W8%_G2Y0%`H4W0%aF3W3%bo2F4%cd7E0%dJ1U5
)END

PLease understand, I'm not fishing for a string of "atta-boys". I'm just sharing some thoughts and encouraging folks by saying that practice really does pay off sometimes. If you have any thoughts on the strategy I used I would be interested in that.

bluewolf
03-19-2004, 09:34 AM
That is great Wally, glad to hear you played so well. I had a good win last night too, although not quite as remarkable as yours. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

As an sl3, I was playing a guy ranked as a three. He ran 4 balls several times during the match and sometimes 5, and often fairly difficult long cuts. Going into the match, in his first session, he had a 6 out of 7 winning average, so he was pretty good. I had beaten an sl4 last week, and an sl5 a few weeks before, so a little tougher competiton just briings out one's best game, IMO. He was a better shooter than I, so I did have to use strategy to beat him.

In the following shot, I chose to mishit an easy shot, because my other two balls were in a place where I would have had to do a very difficult, precise kick to get to them,which I did not have the skill to do that kick and I could not afford to give this good shooter BIH.

START(
%Aq1Z2%B[1B0%C[6B3%D[7B5%Et5B8%FL8P5%GL9O1%HS3O5%IO0P9%JB7B9
%KN7N1%LJ5N2%MB6B5%NJ1Q8%OL5S4%Po6W9%Wq1[6%Xp7Z9%]p9Y5%^o7X6
)END

So yeah, when I am playing a better shootiing player, I do have to pull that strategy out of my pocket to win.

Laura

UWPoolGod
03-19-2004, 09:52 AM
Nice shooting Wally.
On your 2nd BIH layout did the 2/3/5 not all go in the lower left pocket or did you break it up to that point? Loking at that layout I probably would have made the 5, followed up to the left rail, taken the 4, then the 3, the 2 and head downtable for the 8 in the side.

I was mad in mine. I missed this stupid easy shot in the 5th game to finish the set out with 3 break&runs.

After making my previous ball down the rail into pocketA and stopping it for break out angle, I used too much english and threw the ball over off the tit to the end of the blue arrow. He was a 6 but scratched a few balls later and I took it own. Would have liked the 3pack though.

START(
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%]q8P1%^k1Q6%eB0`4
)END

Wally_in_Cincy
03-19-2004, 10:04 AM
good strategy. sometimes I try to miss and I make the ball /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I saw your post at AZB about that guy. Maybe you should talk to your LO.

Wally_in_Cincy
03-19-2004, 10:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote UWPoolGod:</font><hr> Nice shooting Wally.
On your 2nd BIH layout did the 2/3/5 not all go in the lower left pocket or did you break it up to that point?

<font color="blue">The 2 would not go in that pocket. My diagram is a bit off. I suppose I could have pocketed the 2 up-table but there was no need to try. Besides I needed it up-table for shape on the 8 </font color>

...Would have liked the 3pack though.

<font color="blue">The best I have done is a "1 and 7/8" pack /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

bluewolf
03-19-2004, 10:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> good strategy. sometimes I try to miss and I make the ball /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I saw your post at AZB about that guy. Maybe you should talk to your LO. <hr /></blockquote>

That team is in first place. They have used this guy to beat all of the threes, ensuring an easy win. I think they are padding his innings too because he told me that he usually has 8-10 innings, where this guy could easily get out in four against a mediocre three.

I used to get pretty upset about sandbagging but have become so competitive that it does not bother me so much anymore. If he was a four, i would have had a 3-2 spot, just like the 4 and the five I beat a 4-2 spot. In all three cases, I won 2-1, so dont guess that xtra spot would have mattered, anyway.


In our league, they are real bad about not counting safes, also, which makes the innings seem higher. I have just accepted that it is a way of life in our league and I will become a four when I become a four, although I would like to be shooting a little better before that happens. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Laura

03-19-2004, 11:14 AM

Wally_in_Cincy
03-19-2004, 11:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> Congratulations on your killer safe shot and win Wally. I love to watch 8 ball players beat the unsuspecting with good safety play. Way to go!! <hr /></blockquote>

Whitey,

The first game I actually won with aggressive play /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif. I knew this guy was a monster and if I didn't run out I was dead, considering the layout of the balls.

But ya gotta when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. ...

or something like that /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Sid_Vicious
03-19-2004, 12:40 PM
"Do not be afraid to play safe with ball-in-hand. I played a killer safe on this guy and then with BIH I played this which allowed me to get BIH again and win the match."

Few people use agressive BIH safeties(imo), one especially nice one is in the game of nine ball after a scratch on the break. Sure there are balls you can run, maybe even a runout, but it's my observation that most of us average players can't run an open rack all the way, especially against a strong's pressure. Here's what I'm talking about.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

START(
%AK1U8%BX7Z3%Cb7C9%Dh4Z2%EY7O8%FN6U3%GQ0L6%HQ5V0%I r3S6%PH8V9
%Uf2C9%VK7U3%Wr2L1%Xg9C5%]L8U9%^I6V9
)END

Pin that 6 or get nestled behind that wall and most people will leave you the 1-9 combo after a missed hit. There are many, many subtle ways to coast the 1 toward the nine and leave yourself grinning with a lock down safety...sid

Wally_in_Cincy
03-19-2004, 12:55 PM
ouch! that's brutal.

brilliant, but brutal /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sid_Vicious
03-19-2004, 01:00 PM
One "compliment" I get from time to time is "You are NOT a nice man", said with more humor than animosity. A simple safety like that could take a hill-hill match for the title, the easy way. You gotta do what you gotta do,,,nineball, game of skill, not always...sid

Tom_In_Cincy
03-19-2004, 01:20 PM
Now that is a great nite. Good Win and happy hour to boot.

Maybe a POY is in your future also..

Good shooting my friend.

Wally_in_Cincy
03-19-2004, 01:32 PM
Thanks buddy.

His name was Terry Ritchey. You ever meet him? He's a Hamiltucky APA legend /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Rod
03-19-2004, 03:09 PM
Good Playing Wally. Sometimes playing safe with BIH is a real smart move especially if you lock them up tight. Very improtant when playing a good player.

I'd be interested in the set up before you shot. Sometimes not taking a run out could be costly if he hits one of those balls. I don't necessarly agree with sending the ball up table, near his balls. It looks like your speed control had to be good or it doesn't make the rail, or it travels to far which makes position more difficult. The 8 is nearly in front of the side so position play isn't that difficult. Just a couple of thoughts.

Rod

Tom_In_Cincy
03-19-2004, 03:14 PM
Oh yeah.. Terry has played in the Snookers Saturday line tournament. He did well, but you know that's a tough crowd on Saturday.

Wally_in_Cincy
03-19-2004, 03:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>
I'd be interested in the set up before you shot.

<font color="blue">the 2 was tied up and would not go past the 3.

START(
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%Nn6L4%PE5W8%_G2Y0%`H2V7%aF3W3%bo2F4%cd7E0%dJ1U5
)END </font color>

Sometimes not taking a run out could be costly if he hits one of those balls.

<font color="blue">I think I had him snookered worse than it looks on the diagram. He would have been really lucky to hit, much less make, a ball. </font color>

I don't necessarly agree with sending the ball up table, near his balls. It looks like your speed control had to be good or it doesn't make the rail, or it travels to far which makes position more difficult. The 8 is nearly in front of the side so position play isn't that difficult.

<font color="blue">not for you maybe /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif </font color>

Just a couple of thoughts.

<font color="blue">and I thank you for both of them sir /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif </font color>

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
03-19-2004, 03:22 PM
wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

Rod,

the setup after the safe looked like this

START(
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%Nl9K8%PG9Y2
)END

he was tied up pretty good.

Rod
03-19-2004, 03:27 PM
Those shots are often overlooked sometimes even by good players. I always want to know where the 9 is on the table when I play safe. Even if it's not ball in hand, sometimes a 1, 2, 3 or even 4 rails to leave the o/b near the 9 wins games. There are plenty of examples but here is one
START(
%CK6D2%D_5D4%EW5Z6%Fr9G5%Ge1T4%HM9D3%Ir7T9%PX7K7%U q9K8%Vj0C9
%Wh9C9%XP4[2%YD6I6%ZK6D0%[O4Z1%\D2J8%eB3b0
)END

Of course if you screw up on the safe you might leave a good carom. Just knowing your ability in some situations is real important.

Rod

Rod
03-19-2004, 04:09 PM
You made a good shot Wally and it won you the game, period. Now here is my solution. Wei Wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/%7Ewei/pool/pooltable2.html)

START(
%BI0V2%CI0W7%DF1G9%EJ0Y4%H\4Y4%I_9D6%JF6D4%Ke4X8%L i1Z5%Ml8R3
%Nn6L4%PN7Y6%eB5`9%_D5Z9%`F0Z3%aI1Y6%bI7U3%cJ0W4%d J5Y3
)END

I'm real sure you could do the one above. Now here is the results even if you touch the three, just a gentle little stroke and you have the 4 as a backup. Real important those back up shots sometimes.

START(
%BF5U3%CH0X3%DF1G9%EB4\1%H\4Y4%I_9D6%JF6D4%Ke4X8%L i1Z5%Ml8R3
%Nn6L4%PJ7O7%eB5`9
)END

Now there just sitting ducks. Quack Quack Quack /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Rod

Qtec
03-20-2004, 12:30 AM
I think you have to go for the runout.

START(
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Two shots for your opponent.
1.safety shot via the 10ball to pos A.
2. Deliberate foul pushing the 4ball to pos B.

Coming off 2 cus it would be difficult for him to miss a ball.

As long as you think it was the right shot to play thats fine. No point in playing a shot your not comfortable with.

Play your own game.

Q

bluewolf
03-20-2004, 05:21 AM
Wally,

Sometimes I think you just KNOW. You just know it is in the pocket or the run is just there. I think a person is halfway in the zone at that point.

I made a mistake in my last game thursday night. I was on the last ball before the eight and I KNEW it was in the pocket with perfect short straight in on the 8. The coach jumped in and coached me to not do it that way. I foolishly followed his advice which left me hard on the eight.

So to you, if you just KNEW, then you did it right. JMHO.

Laura

Wally_in_Cincy
03-20-2004, 08:12 AM
Rod,

I don't recall the exact table layout but I'm pretty sure you have a good solution there. However I am not the best at predicting the results of a cluster breakout. That one is pretty simple though I will admit.

Like most hackers I went for a long time just breaking up clusters and not thinking about the results. For the last year or so I would guess I have concentrated much more on this, knowing this is one of the ways I can improve my 14.1 game.

I also learned a long time ago the same thing about combos. Sometimes making the combo is the easy part and knowing where the first ball is going is the hard part.

Keith Talent
03-20-2004, 08:49 AM
atta boy, Wally ...

Hell, all these 7s and A players must have been at our humble levels for a least 5 minutes way back when. Maybe you're finding a new level now. I think it was Capelle who said, "Wally-in-Cincy's game could take a big leap forward at any time." /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
03-20-2004, 08:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith Talent:</font><hr> atta boy, Wally ...

Hell, all these 7s and A players must have been at our humble levels for a least 5 minutes way back when. Maybe you're finding a new level now. I think it was Capelle who said, "Wally-in-Cincy's game could take a big leap forward at any time." /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

not really.

I improve bit by bit over time but I just caught him on a night when he couldn't run 3 friggin' balls.

I do ok but I am learning to be grateful for the small leaps.

Thanks Keith.

Keith Talent
03-20-2004, 10:18 AM
For sure, gotta enjoy the small steps that come after the stumbles and the staggers.

And is it (you name it) any LESS valuable because you had to work for it, rather than inheriting it or winning it in the lottery?

Wally_in_Cincy
03-20-2004, 11:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith Talent:</font><hr> For sure, gotta enjoy the small steps that come after the stumbles and the staggers.

And is it (you name it) any LESS valuable because you had to work for it, rather than inheriting it or winning it in the lottery? <hr /></blockquote>

That reminds me of something. I was at the tavern last night. I resisted playing for at least an hour because there was no real competition.

We were going to leave soon so I decided to play one game before I left. Of course when I beat this guy (did not know him, seemed like a nice guy) he insisted on continuing.

I beat him 3 more games, made some nice shots, he was like "wow man I wanna be able to make those shots"

I said "Well go practice about 2000 hours like I did" /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I doubt he will....

Sid_Vicious
03-20-2004, 11:17 AM
"I said "Well go practice about 2000 hours like I did""

Call me quilty as sin, my "practice" is in the range of maybe a thousand hours, but I'm more of a learner by playing, lots and lots of playing, bad, I know. Still practice just wears me out...sid

Wally_in_Cincy
03-20-2004, 11:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Call me quilty as sin, my "practice" is in the range of maybe a thousand hours, but I'm more of a learner by playing, lots and lots of playing, bad, I know. Still practice just wears me out...sid <hr /></blockquote>

Well, to be perfectly honest, my "playing" time would have to be included in that figure to reach the 2000 mark.

and don't feel bad. practice wears me out too /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

when I first started I could see much improvement in my play as it related to my practice time but as you go on the increments are not nearly as noticeable or immediate. hence the motivation to practice diminishes somewhat...unfortunately.

for me anyway