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Popcorn
03-29-2004, 05:09 PM
This is what you want for cue repair. This is one of those small Logan lathes with the 1 3/8 spindle bore. This one even has a six jaw chuck. You can do so many different kinds of cue operations on that lathe, it is like it is designed for the cue maker. It is similar to the old heavy 10. I love that old American iron. If I lived within a few hundred miles of where that lathe is, I would probably take a look at it and I would not be afraid to pay top dollar if it is a good one even if it needs a few repairs. They are so hard to come by.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3806973717

BLACKHEART
03-29-2004, 06:11 PM
Popcorn,I recently had some e-mails from a CCB poster, who bought a small lathe, to do shaft repairs. Now he wants to do more towards Q makeing & he's stuck, becuse the lathe is too small. I agree with you that this is a great lathe for repairs,but is it too small make Qs on?...JER

Popcorn
03-29-2004, 07:09 PM
You could not build a whole cue on that one lathe, but to get that size bore you usually need a 1200 + LB monster. That lathe could be set up in someone's spare bedroom with no problem just to do repairs. It would need to be changed to 110 though.. You can do most of the cue operations such as drilling, building the handles, part making and so on, and with little more then a another 9 inch x 36 South bend ( easy to find anywhere), you could build cues. As someone buys more equipment, that lathe would always have a valuable place in the shop. A real good one to start with. I know you said you started with Porper machines and I bet you still find a good use for them, even though you have added more equipment. I have three band saws, (can't turn down a good deal) and I find I have a use for all three. Getting back to that lathe, any cue maker would like having that sitting in the corner. I guess I just like machinery.

BLACKHEART
03-29-2004, 07:43 PM
Actually, I started with an old South Bend, that I still use every day, to do just what you said. I use it for making parts & sanding. I made Qs & did repairs on that lathe, for the 1st 4 years. THEN I got a Porper lathe. Now I have 3 Porper lathes, the South Bend, a Hightower & a wood lathe with a large chuck. I think you get caught up in buying equipment. I have a band saw, table saw, router table, belt sander & a ton of hand tools...JER

Cueless Joey
03-29-2004, 08:01 PM
Used lathes around SoCal come often.
I don't know if it's worth tinkering though when Grizzly lathes are readily available new. They are not bad lathes.
I'm thinking of getting a Grizzly 12 by 37 belt driven lathe and a taper machine by Eddie Prewitt ( if he gets around making me one).
One of the classrooms I am the computer tech too has two lathes I can grab. A 10 by 33 SB and a 9 by 24 SB with a taper attachment ( but no bar). I'm thinking of getting the smaller one for small operations or making points and roughing butt woods. It's tough working between centers on a 33 inch lathe. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif So I might pass on that 33 inch SB.

Popcorn
03-29-2004, 08:31 PM
I don't care for the Chinese machines. They come, (regardless what they tell you) with cheap bearings poor fitting parts. In most cases you end up doing work on the lathe to make it right the day you get it. If you plan on putting any real hours on the machine, you will be rebuilding something. Nothing wrong with buying new, but for something that will last you, you need to spend. Grizzly, Enco, Jet and so on, you get what you pay for. They are not giving those machines away, that is all they are worth. Here is an interesting article about used lathes. There is also a section to help someone check out a used lathe.
http://www.mermac.com/klunker2.html

BLACKHEART
03-29-2004, 08:56 PM
My South Bend is 36" between centers & I had the spindle bored out, to the max,to give me 1 1/8" dia. I also mounted a chuck off of a pipe threader to the rear end of the headstock. I made 80 Qs on that lathe, BEFORE I mounted a router to it. Man what an improvement...JER

Cueless Joey
03-29-2004, 11:06 PM
Thanks Pop.
We have a machining class like I mentioned.
The teacher there swears by Jet and Acra lathes.
He said, they've stood up to the abuse.
But, true the old Logans, SB and Clausing were built like tanks. You gotta have a full-on lathe b/c you need the thread gear/qc box. Ready made cue lathes are nice but they don't thread.

Popcorn
03-29-2004, 11:58 PM
My point was more, they are not a bargain, you get what you pay for. In the front of the grizzly catalog they tell you how they have machines on the premises to re surface machines that come in warped, (their words) and plenty of replacement parts and so on. These machines are not made to very high standards, that is why they are cheap. A machine that has to be gone over by the distributor, fresh from the factory so it is sellable tells the story. They seem to come with incredibility bad motors, I don't know why but they all do. I bought a cheap import horizontal band saw. The motor went in two months. I just replaced it with a good salvaged motor and it runs great for the last 5 years. I have heard the same story over and over about the motors. Grizzly advertises they have a winding shop to fix motors. They are selling new equipment, they should never have a customer that needs a motor rewound.

Having said all that, the demands you will put on a lathe working on cues is not very high. If you get an import lathe in good shape it should work well for you. It could not stand up to daily machine shop work but for your purposes it would be fine. You know, machines like they sell, if you buy high end made stuff, could cost you five times as much. They fill a nitch in the market for not to bad, inexpensive equipment for low production shops and home use. Look at Harbor Freight. They have a store near me and it is like a junk yard, but people stand in line buying the stuff. The standard line you hear there is, "Well for this price it's not bad". Until you are in the middle of a job and the tool breaks. I bought a cordless drill for $14.00. It was so bad, after a month I throw it away.

Cueless Joey
03-30-2004, 12:16 AM
This should be good enough.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gifhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3807062661&category=57 033
Harbor Freight's a great place for disposables.

Popcorn
03-30-2004, 01:16 AM
The funny thing is, you can probably buy that lathe for less then a Porper.
After the second world war factories had machines all over the place. Many brand new that were never delivered or used. Workers who learned the machines in the factories, wanted them for home shop use. It is not unusual to find machines that have never been in a production shop in fantastic shape. You do a check on the numbers and you find it was built more then 50 years ago. Parts are even available for a lot of these lathes. South Bend has such good records, they can tell you the day the machine was built and delivered. Here is a picture of a lathe I bought not long ago. It is an old Atlas 6 x 18 in like new condition. It was in the original factory shipping create it came in. The owner only used it for a couple of years in his seller and when he moved to Florida it was created up and never set up again, it just stayed in storage all those years. I bought it from the estate. for $150.00. It is just sitting there, I only hooked it up enough to try it out. It was completely covered with grease when I got it, (A good thing) .I love this stuff, I don't know what I will do with it, maybe for making parts or something or let my young nephew learn on it, he is 10 and comes over all the time to use the pool table.
http://simplealbum.com/m/a/machineguycomcastnet/default.dir/lathepost.jpg

BLACKHEART
03-30-2004, 07:50 AM
Another place to look for lathes is schools. When schools close, they get rid of the Metal Shop machines...JER

stickman
03-30-2004, 10:17 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3807062661&category=57 033 I could drool all over one like that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Cueless Joey
03-30-2004, 10:20 AM
Get a towel and wipe off that drool. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
This is local to me too. This people always has lathes on sale on Fleabay. Z and I might go to their parking lot sale one of these days. I think they buy a ton of their equipment from closed-down shops. They had a Logan a few months back.

Cueless Joey
03-31-2004, 09:30 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3806296489&category=57 033
Hmmmmmmm....
Like I said before, used lathes come around often here.
It'll probably get worse as machining work are offshored now. Hell, you can send cad files to India and they'll make the parts there. Sad but a reality.
This lathe would be great to make cues on.

Popcorn
03-31-2004, 10:35 AM
Panograph machines are even better. Since the cnc machines have come down in price, you can find good panograph machines in the back room of any engraver or sign shop collecting dust. I have a Gorton P1-2 that I have the original bill of sale for. They paid $22,500. for the machine around 1985 and I bought it for $1800. in 1994. I can do anything I want with that machine and it can be retro fitted to cnc if I decide to. There is a lot of stuff out there for the small guy now. For for a guy building a hand full of cues a year, I think to spend $10,000 or so for cnc to do inlay is not worth it. The problem is, they don't know how to make the templates for the manual machines and every time they want to do something different they have to pay for a template. Once you know how to make templates you can do anything you want. You can make a template for limited use in just a few minutes. For the average guy, a manual machine should be all they need if they learn how to use it and the machine will last a life time. I am really glad to hear you are taking a course, knowing how to use the tools is the key. It is hard to learn on your own trial and error.

Cueless Joey
03-31-2004, 11:50 AM
Funny you should mention Gorton pantograph.
I saw one here yrs ago. A P1-2 as well. Sold for around 1500. The thing is a beast though. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
If I know what size the template is, I can just draw them and convert them G-codeable drawings. Funny thing is, you have to use a CNC to make the templates cheaply out of aluminum. Small cnc mills have gone down is prices so much. Less than 3K, you can have a 4-axis mini-mill. But, somehow I like v-pointed cues with simple traditional inlays. How many more cuemakers out there wanna make cues that look like Congnoscenti copycats?
I cannot even imagine learning cuemaking from scratch.
Knowledge on wood alone takes a long time to accumulate.
Finishing, inserting pin, facing, linen and leather wrapping and gluing knowledge are a must.
My mentor has knocked down my learning curve by years.
Of course it helps to go to a machining bootcamp for 5-6 months too.

Popcorn
03-31-2004, 12:28 PM
Quote
"Funny thing is, you have to use a CNC to make the templates cheaply out of aluminum"

No that was my point, templates are easy to make, you have to know how. I can make one from a picture in a magazine or out of my imagination. For a one time or very limited use, I may use something like a thick linoleum tile to cut it from. For something more long lasting I use phenolic sheet or plastic. It is really very simple. You can use your the panograph it's self to make a permanent template from a temporary template. Am I spelling panograph right? I don't know if it is with an O or an A.

Cueless Joey
03-31-2004, 12:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Quote
"Funny thing is, you have to use a CNC to make the templates cheaply out of aluminum"

No that was my point, templates are easy to make, you have to know how. I can make one from a picture in a magazine or out of my imagination. For a one time or very limited use, I may use something like a thick linoleum tile to cut it from. For something more long lasting I use phenolic sheet or plastic. It is really very simple. You can use your the panograph it's self to make a permanent template from a temporary template. Am I spelling panograph right? I don't know if it is with an O or an A. <hr /></blockquote>
I never though of using phenolic sheet.
It is spelled pantograph.
Look what I found. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Gorton Panamill (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3807359299&amp;category=25 280)
Pop, can you post pics of your inlays and/or templates?
Thanx.

Popcorn
03-31-2004, 01:06 PM
That is the machine I have, mine has a much bigger table. That missing spindle is a big deal though. It could cost you $1500. or more to replace. I bet no one buys that machine.

Cueless Joey
03-31-2004, 01:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> That is the machine I have, mine has a much bigger table. That missing spindle is a big deal though. It could cost you $1500. or more to replace. I bet no one buys that machine. <hr /></blockquote>
It'll be a huge paperweight now unless he parts them out.

Rod
04-01-2004, 03:14 PM
Popcorn,

What do you consider top dollar? I wrote the guy and asked questions about the known problems.

#1 Feed shaft feels disconnected.

I wrote, Isn't it possible the keyway in the gear or shaft is in bad condition and may need welded and recut.

His answer, YES, THIS IS POSSIBLE, BUT WITHOUT OPENING UP THE GEAR BOX I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE EITHER WAY.

#2 The thread dial indicator is missing.

I asked, The thread dial indicator is special I presume?

He answered, YES IT IS. I have a couple of dial indicators but I'm sure they won't work. IT CAN BE BOUGHT AT www.LATHES.COM (http://www.LATHES.COM)

I don't seem to find anything there.

#3 Lever to engage feedtrain (at left side of head) has a broken spring-handle.

I asked about this and he said it needs to be welded or replaced.

It is a 220V 3 phase. I don't have a real clue here. I do have 220 outside, single phase. Could it be changed to 110 for a while? Otherwise I guess I'd need a converter of some sort or a long extension cord, and that does not sound like a good idea. I'm wating on a reply for shipping from another company, might be a couple of hundred. You insight is appreciated.

Rod

Popcorn
04-01-2004, 05:40 PM
Take a look at this thread going on, on a machining group, it is regarding that lathe.
Also contact Scott Logan at

http://www.lathe.com/ (http://www.lathe.com/) and get the low down.
personaly,http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;safe=off&amp;th=d08f6b31deb9c90&amp;rnum=1

9ballgod
04-27-2004, 10:14 PM
I see that you have a hightower and porper lathes. Could you tell me what you think is the best Q-lathe ? I've been told that it's hard to put a joint pin in with a hightower..

I'm wanting to start repairing and building cues...

Thanks.