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stickman
03-30-2004, 04:14 AM
I couldn't send you a private message. I made my homemade stroke trainer yesterday. I practiced with it during the afternoon. Last evening I played in a scotch doubles 9ball tournament, and we took 1st place. We were done between 12:30 and 1:00. We started playing rings games after that until about 3:00. I won everyone of them! A friend of mine has really had a hot hand lately. He commented that I had been really shooting well this evening. He said: Your game is back. I don't think I'll tell them anything about it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

03-30-2004, 11:44 AM

stickman
03-30-2004, 12:00 PM
Yeah, locally they'll just have to guess what's going on. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I was amazed that improvement could be seen in one afternoon.

Jim

cycopath
03-30-2004, 12:02 PM
I was thinking of trying to make one with Plexiglass, is that what you used?

stickman
03-30-2004, 12:21 PM
I made the bed of mine from a 1x6" approx. 5 1/2 ft. long. Mine wasn't made to be used on a pool table as shown on the web site. I just put mine on top of my kitchen table. I also only built mine for right handers only. I could fix it for left handers, but I seldom ever shoot left handed. I drilled 5/16" holes on the end and glued pieces of 5/16" dowel for the posts. I covered the posts with clear plastic tubing. Two rubberbands stretched over the posts define the stroke zone. I drilled and glued the sideboard on the left edge. It was about 30" long with an angle on the front. It wasn't fancy, but it serves to build muscle memory. My wrist was more stable after a short time practicing. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

frog
03-30-2004, 05:32 PM
Hey, could you post a drawing, such as offset of guide plate to pins, etc. I am interested in making one myself. thanks

stickman
03-30-2004, 10:56 PM
I'll see if someone will loan me a digital camera for a day.

ceebee
03-31-2004, 06:07 PM
Hey.. nice going there Stickman, glad to see that your home made StrokeTrainer worked well for you. I suppose you'll be thanking Mr.Doug Carter for his invention & patting him on the back for his good idea... that works, or so you say it does.

Building one to help you train for those LEFTY shots might have been a great added attraction.

I happen to know the StrokeTrainer works too, but I didn't have the time or the inclination to build one of my own. Glad to see that your game is back & a home made StrokeTrainer helped you out....... cb

mr8ballme
03-31-2004, 09:38 PM
Hi Stickman This is Doug INVENTOR of the STROKETRAINER!! Glad you have coppied my idea it takes a real genius to steel someones idea because they cant think of something on their own. But anyway glad to see you can do something with my idea hope you win eneough mony to pay for it. Thanks /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

PQQLK9
03-31-2004, 10:16 PM
Hi Doug,
I missed you at Breaktime Billiards in Front Royal but Dave did let me try the Stroketrainer.I was going to make you an offer that you would probably refuse /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif.I looked for one at VF but did not see one.

stickman
04-01-2004, 01:10 AM
Thanks, ceebee. My game is improving. Thanks to Doug also. He had a great idea. If I could have afforded it, I wouldn't have made my own. I hope he makes a ton.

stickman
04-01-2004, 01:40 AM
Hi, Doug. Honestly, I thank you for the great idea. I've won enough to pay for mine. I spent less than $10.00 to build it. Best of luck to your game and your business.

Jim

Popcorn
04-01-2004, 02:14 AM
It is a good product, but a bad business. 1. It is over priced. 2. The concept is old as the hills, you have just re packaged it. 3. It is so simple, anyone with a brain in their head can duplicate it themselves for their own use and maybe even improve on it, making it all but UN-sellable. There are a zillion products like it in the patent office. Good ideas that are not worth producing for the reasons I mentioned. A lot of fools get caught up in a project, invest money, and then see the realities of it, as you have. I would step back if I were you and take a hard objective look at it. You may find it best to fold it and cut your loses. This forum may have done you a favor. I would have thought you would have learned your lesson when you tried spamming forums to sell you product. Remember this thread?

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&th=35dedc99c290967d&seekm=f0e80ff.03091 10512.1361a389%40posting.google.com#link10

Wally_in_Cincy
04-01-2004, 07:40 AM
ceebee,

just so you know, stickman is in his garage working on a home-made break-rak even as we speak /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
04-01-2004, 07:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote stickman:</font><hr> ...I've won enough to pay for mine. I spent less than $10.00 to build it.....<hr /></blockquote>

stickman Jim,

that's about how much I win in tourneys too /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

04-01-2004, 10:28 AM

Wally_in_Cincy
04-01-2004, 10:35 AM
Damn you're testy /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nobody said the thing doesn't work. I would like to have one. But not at that price.

stickman
04-01-2004, 10:38 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif HaHa That's just exactly what I won last night. ($10.00) Substact the $5.00 entry fee, $5.00 in quarters, and I almost broke even. Of course, I had a couple of 75 cent beers. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Not bad for an evening full of enjoyment.

stickman
04-01-2004, 10:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> I would like to have one. But not at that price. <hr /></blockquote>

Wally, I can build you one for $25.00 plus shipping. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif J/K I'm too busy trying to figure out how to make this break-rak thing. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif HaHa

bluewolf
04-01-2004, 11:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mr8ballme:</font><hr> Hi Stickman This is Doug INVENTOR of the STROKETRAINER!! Glad you have coppied my idea it takes a real genius to steel someones idea because they cant think of something on their own. But anyway glad to see you can do something with my idea hope you win eneough mony to pay for it. Thanks /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Since you are posting here, I have a question or a comment. It worked great for FL and my husband, but it does not work for me. They have a more upright stance and I found it clunky for me.

i do not doubt that it is well designed but think that a shorter piece of metal might have worked better. I am very low in my stance and my stroke nearly touches my body. The ST seems to make me get in a position that is very awkward for me . Why is that?

Laura

Popcorn
04-01-2004, 11:47 AM
I am a fan of the idea and the concept of training muscle memory is used in every sport. He is not living in the real world though. The idea that someone will look at his product and build one on their own is obvious and should be considered in his business plan. That is just the way it goes and his attitude is a little nieve and foolish. In fact, if his product is very successful, he should be prepared to see other similar products come out and cheaper and again, that is the way it goes. He better stay out of the marketing business if he is not prepared for that. He has never seen what is called a store brand? I would also say, the idea for his product probably, although maybe indirectly, was suggested by another product. He said he played sports for many years. I bet he took another idea himself and just adapted it to pool and there is nothing wrong with that, it is done all the time.

There is a product on the market called Aft a-bite (sp?) you put it on an insect bite and it relives the bite and reduces the swelling. What the manufacture did was just take common household ammonia and put it in a felt tip magic marker type tube. If you get a bite you just take off the cap and rub it on. He did not invent the marker tube nor did he invent ammonia. He took two ideas and came up with a new use. Products that don't work on the market though are products where the concept of the product is so obvious that you can not hide it. Especially, if it is just a common item that has been re adapted and is being sold for an inflated price. Such as trying to sell a jump rope as a new exercise device. Everything you say the jump rope will do is the truth. You will lose weight, get in better shape, it can be carried with you, used in the comfort of your home, requires no assembly and so on. Although it does everything you say, it is still just a jump rope. The idea that someone would build a stroke trainer for themselves should not be of any surprise to him. The only way to prevent it, is to market it at a price where even if someone was inclined to make one, they would say "why bother since I can just buy one". He has priced it out of any possible market that would allow him to be successful. He should be reading these postings with interest, rather then anger. He may need to go back to the drawing board as far as his business plan goes.

mworkman
04-01-2004, 01:05 PM
I too would like a stroke trainer, but can't afford one. I know my stroke isn't strait and this could probably help.
How much could the materials cost for this? This is an unreasonable price. $200.00 Yikes. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Ken
04-01-2004, 01:13 PM
I think the web site said the price is $175 with shipping included.

bluewolf
04-01-2004, 02:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mworkman:</font><hr> I too would like a stroke trainer, but can't afford one. I know my stroke isn't strait and this could probably help.
How much could the materials cost for this? This is an unreasonable price. $200.00 Yikes. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Not trying to be biased but I would take a lesson first to make sure your stroke mechanics are right. Don't think a piece of equipment is going to fix a stroke if it is not fundamentally sound. That way you can spend 50-75$ and just might get your stroke going straight without having to buy that long black ST thing.

Ray took a lesson from scott first. I got stroke lessons from scott several times (3 I think including one all day one), randy g(3 days) and FL(4-8hrs). I am not as good as Ray so guess I needed more lessons LOL. An advanced player who has good fundamentals may benefit from such a piece of equipment, so since I do not know you, it depends on which camp you are in.

LAURA

Popcorn
04-01-2004, 06:04 PM
Check this out
http://www.billiardsgamestroketrainer.com/Assembly.html

You got him so paranoid he changed his web site. Here is a guy trying to sell a product he won't even show you now unless you shell out $175.00. I have never seen a advertisement for a product you could not see first. Interesting marketing plan.

Frank_Glenn
04-01-2004, 06:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Check this out
http://www.billiardsgamestroketrainer.com/Assembly.html

You got him so paranoid he changed his web site. Here is a guy trying to sell a product he won't even show you now unless you shell out $175.00. I have never seen a advertisement for a product you could not see first. Interesting marketing plan. <hr /></blockquote>

Look at the links after the paypal symbol. There are LOTS of pictures. He's not paranoid, and the product works.

mworkman
04-01-2004, 09:27 PM
LAURA- To answer your question, I'm an above average league player (in my area) as I have been MVP 3 times in the last 5 years. This doesn't matter much tho' as the competition isn't very good. And I seem to be getting worse instead of better. I play good position, but when left with a long tough shot, I ussually miss.

Someone else posted that if you practice stroking one handed off the end rail that it would help correct any problem in the stroke. I've been doing this the last couple of days and I think it may be helping some.

There are no Pro-players in my area. The closest would probably be Jimmy Wetch in Minneapolis which is a 2 1/2 hour drive for me, and I'm not sure he even gives lessons.

I'm sure the StrokeTrainer is a good product.
One thing I don't get tho', It looks like your wrist maintains contact (sliding back and forth). Now if you remove the divider wouldn't your wrist come in a little towards your body. You must be putting some pressure on it if you are maintaining contact. I'm probably just missing something as ussual. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

bluewolf
04-02-2004, 06:06 AM
I went back and looked at the site because I was interested why it does not work for me as well as others.

My stroking arm is much closer to my body than those pictured including FL and WW. For me to use it, I have to stand behind it and it is so long cannot do the bridge and stroke through those rubber bands.

It looks to me that one is supposed to stand beside it, but since it has a piece of metal attached for the left handed stroking, my stroke was being cocked out past where it normally is.

Boy, I sure would like to hear about this from Scott, randy and others who do a lot of stroke teaching, as far as what they think.

Laura

#### leonard
04-02-2004, 08:46 AM
God does that replace my coke bottle.####

#### leonard
04-02-2004, 08:52 AM
If your lucky the sun will shine in on your kitchen wall and you can watch your stroke on the wall. This is also a great stroke trainer. You could rig a spotlight to further your stroke training.

Another trick is to stroke down the table divide, it is a straight edge. Wrist twister cue paths are obvious on this line.####

silver2k
04-02-2004, 09:35 AM
So basically this is just a long flat smooth reflective base with 2 sets of two posts coming up.

Is there anything else to it? Lines on the reflective base?

How far apart are the posts that the cue goes between?

mr8ballme
04-02-2004, 02:04 PM
Hi Laura, I think I know what you are doing I can tell you how to fix it if you call me or I can call you to save you a long distance call. email me at mr8ballme@yahoo.com Thanks Doug

Ralph S.
04-02-2004, 03:01 PM
I am with you Wally. The price does seem exhorbitantly high.

Rod
04-02-2004, 04:12 PM
I'm afraid so, man isn't technology grand. It's a step forward??? LOL

stickman
04-02-2004, 04:32 PM
I used to have a camcorder, before the ex. That could be helpful, if I still had it.
She got the digital camera, and most of the money too, but she didn't get me. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Ken
04-03-2004, 09:43 AM
I have come up with what I call the "Ultimate Stroke/Aim Trainer". This devise consists of three main parts: a metal ring similar to a key ring, a length of straight metal rod similar to a coat hanger and a common clothes pin with a device affixed with which to attach the metal rod. I believe it would be possible to buy these components for a unit cost of under 10 cents.

The purchaser/user would only be required to adjust the length of the rod to match the distance that he/she prefers to keep the cue away from his/her head. The key ring would come already welded to the end of the rod.

Once the clothes pin is affixed to the properly adjusted rod, the user would simply slide the cue through the keyring and then affix the clothes pin to the lower eyelid of his/her dominant eye. With the assembly thus attached the user would position the cue directly under his/her dominant eye using the force of gravity to assure a perfectly vertical alighnment with the table. Any deviation from a perfect stroke would then be detected by a slight tug on the skin of his/her lower eyelid. The rod would extend to the plane of the eyeball and be used for sighting purposes.

This "Ultimate" training aid has the advantage that it can be used in the course of a game and should be legal for tournament play. It has the added feature of providing immediate feedback to the user should there be any deviation from a perfect stroke. It can be readily removed for racking in those matches that are "rack your own". Of course, if it is "loser racks" it should never be necessary to remove it, although I would suggest that one remove it when breaking until one's stroke has been perfected. Finally, it will tend to keep one awake and alert during those marathon gambling sessions.

I believe these units can be mass produced for under $1 apiece depending on the finish requested. A teflon coated keyring (highly recommended) will cost extra. I will be offering these units at a price point of under $200 and anyone interested in investing in this venture please PM me with the amount you would be willing to invest.
Ken in CT

stickman
04-03-2004, 10:44 AM
Ouch! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cycopath
04-04-2004, 11:01 AM
Jim, check your PM.