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View Full Version : Explain this all you Predator fans



Qtec
04-01-2004, 03:57 PM
The other day I was playing a friendly game in the club with this guy.
He goes off to the toilet and of course I tried his cue out.
I mut have hit 30/40 balls, potting most. Draw shots and with extreme E. The cue was a buffalo and it hit ok.

It was only after I put the cue down on the table that I noticed that it was a Predator shaft.

I play with a Meucci Red Dot.


If the Pred is so much less deflective, how come I potted almost all balls with EX E and home come I didnt notice any difference?

I,m not a novice, I,ve been hitting balls for 25 years.

Q

Big_Jon
04-01-2004, 04:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> The other day I was playing a friendly game in the club with this guy.
He goes off to the toilet and of course I tried his cue out.
I mut have hit 30/40 balls, potting most. Draw shots and with extreme E. The cue was a buffalo and it hit ok.

It was only after I put the cue down on the table that I noticed that it was a Predator shaft.

I play with a Meucci Red Dot.


If the Pred is so much less deflective, how come I potted almost all balls with EX E and home come I didnt notice any difference?

I,m not a novice, I,ve been hitting balls for 25 years.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe because it's all hype, i've played with one on a diamond smart table, just picked it up and ran a rack or two, playing position, and i play with a pechauer, and on Bob Meucci's video, it was one of the most deflective cues he tested... hmmmm.... maybe i made some extreme mental adjustment from the point of picking it up, and playing it... it's a miracle...

Thanks

Jon

daviddjmp
04-01-2004, 04:22 PM
I had a Pechauer with a Predator shaft, a Schon with a sharpshooter shaft and two customs, both with regular maple shafts. Since I play as many shots as possible with no english, just draw and follow using cue ball speed for position, the difference between the hard rock maple traditional shaft and the new layered ones is really non-existent as far as my game goes. I see a lot of players hitting way off center on almost every shot they play, so maybe it would make a difference to them. Besides, the idea of the shaft having a hollow cavity filled with some space age material kind of bugs me. My vote is for solid maple.

tateuts
04-01-2004, 05:26 PM
I play with a Predator now. As you and I know, you will soon more or less adjust to a shaft that squirts. Some squirt more than others.

I think the Predator is for advanced players. There are a few shots the Predator is great for, which is why I use it.

This shot is the type I'm talking about. This is a force follow with inside english, hard enough to travel three or four rails with enough english to help the speed going off the rails.


START(
%DT1G9%Pj2S0%Uj0D9%VU7Z7%WD4D1%XS0G7%_M7D1%`T3G9%a h9R4%bU2Z6
%cC3J7%dL8C8
)END

WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

This is the type of shot the Predator makes a big difference on. The cue ball is going to squirt a ton on this with a regular shaft, to the point where on a high squirt shaft this shot is extremely difficult (it will miss the pocket to the left - you have to aim well to the left of the normal point of aim on the OB). Let's say a good player can pull off this shot off 1 in 3 chances with a high squirt shaft. My thought is that same player, once they adjust to the Predator, can make this shot 50% of the time, and with practice, 70% or 80% of the time. With a Predator, you're only aiming slightly to the left of the correct line.

Being able to move the cueball like this, at this extreme, is a advantage on the ledger at the advanced levels.

As far as your experience goes, your Meucci might have a relatively low squirt shaft to begin with. It's also possible that your type of stroke and shot alignment minimizes squirt, so you can play the same with any shaft.


Chris

daviddjmp
04-01-2004, 05:42 PM
Couldn't you get the cueball to the same place with a kind of two-rail punch kind of draw, slightly below center with a touch of left?

phil in sofla
04-01-2004, 05:53 PM
Not even much to explain. Supposedly, the Predator eliminates about 95% of deflection.

That does NOT mean it deflects 95% LESS than your Meucci red dot shaft, assuming it is also a low deflection shaft as they claim. While Meucci especially mentions their black dot shaft as having LESS deflection than the Predator, I think they claim the same thing for the red dot.

Hence, you were comparing a claimed low deflection shaft against ANOTHER claimed low deflection shaft that you were used to, and finding them hard to tell apart as to deflection. What's to explain about that, exactly?

DoomCue
04-01-2004, 05:57 PM
I do those kinds of shots all the time with my custom Viking shaft. I play with a 13.5 mm pro taper shaft, and it is super stiff. I've been playing with the same cue for 5 years, and I have full confidence in hitting that shot. Does my cue deflect? Sure it does. Does it deflect more than a Predator? Probably. Does that matter to me? Nope.

All this proves to me is that what shaft is used really doesn't matter. It's whatever you get used to. I feel confident in my shaft. Does that mean I'm going to tout it to everybody as the magic cure-all for their pool ills? Nope. Shaft preference is totally subjective, and it doesn't matter if you're an advanced player, a banger, or a touring pro.

A lot of people are saying the same kinds of things: if you take the time to learn the nuances of the Predator, you'll learn to shoot well with it. I could be wrong, but I think you can make that statement about any shaft. The difference when changing shafts is this: the time you spend getting used to the latest, greatest magic shaft is time you could be getting better with your current shaft.

For example, let's say it takes 6 months to become acclimated to the Pred. That's 6 months you could've spent learning how to play those 4 rail shape shots with inside using your current cue. Now you're used to the Pred, and now you've got to spend time learning that inside english shot. Seems like a waste of precious time to me.

I've seen the latest issue of IP and taken a look at that learning curve. I'd like to make that steep part even steeper by not introducing too many variables and things to learn. Once I get past that steep part (the first 5 years, IIRC), I'm going to reach a point of diminishing returns. Therefore, I'd rather learn to do new things with an old shaft than learn old things with a new shaft. Just my couple o' pennies.

-djb

tateuts
04-01-2004, 06:36 PM
I agree with you - however, with the qualification that I have owned cues where the shafts cannot handle these extreme shots with any real consistency. You've found a shaft after much searching that works well for you. Predators are pretty consistent from shaft to shaft. It only took me a week or two to fully adjust to the difference.

Chris

tateuts
04-01-2004, 06:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote daviddjmp:</font><hr> Couldn't you get the cueball to the same place with a kind of two-rail punch kind of draw, slightly below center with a touch of left? <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, you would just use draw. You have to play this shot when the backward path is blocked by another object ball.

Chris

rocky
04-02-2004, 08:36 AM
If you are a " experienced player " you may be playing with back hand english, if you do then you wont notice alot of difference till you have trained yourself not to use it.

pooltchr
04-05-2004, 09:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DoomCue:</font><hr>I'd rather learn to do new things with an old shaft than learn old things with a new shaft.
-djb <hr /></blockquote>

TAP! TAP! TAP!
Very well said!

Cueless Joey
04-05-2004, 09:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr>

I think the Predator is for advanced players. There are a few shots the Predator is great for, which is why I use it.

This shot is the type I'm talking about. This is a force follow with inside english, hard enough to travel three or four rails with enough english to help the speed going off the rails.


START(
%DT1G9%Pj2S0%Uj0D9%VU7Z7%WD4D1%XS0G7%_M7D1%`T3G9%a h9R4%bU2Z6
%cC3J7%dL8C8
)END

WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

This is the type of shot the Predator makes a big difference on. The cue ball is going to squirt a ton on this with a regular shaft, to the point where on a high squirt shaft this shot is extremely difficult (it will miss the pocket to the left - you have to aim well to the left of the normal point of aim on the OB). Let's say a good player can pull off this shot off 1 in 3 chances with a high squirt shaft. My thought is that same player, once they adjust to the Predator, can make this shot 50% of the time, and with practice, 70% or 80% of the time. With a Predator, you're only aiming slightly to the left of the correct line.

Being able to move the cueball like this, at this extreme, is a advantage on the ledger at the advanced levels.

As far as your experience goes, your Meucci might have a relatively low squirt shaft to begin with. It's also possible that your type of stroke and shot alignment minimizes squirt, so you can play the same with any shaft.


Chris

<hr /></blockquote>
Problem is most Predator owners I know are beginners or novices who bought one thinking their game would take off with it. I still think it's a tool bought by many in thinking it compensates for a crooked stroke. I know I did. ADVANCED players do not get to the advanced level without knowing speed control and deflection/squirt/throw.
From the diagram, I don't see how that cueball would hit 1 3/4 diamonds on the side rail. This shot can easily learned on a regular shaft. I know mine deflects as much as the amount of english if the balls are 4 diamonds apart at 3 rail speed.

tateuts
04-05-2004, 08:04 PM
The cueball hits higher on the rail but it doesn't change the nature of the shot.

No, sorry this shot is definitely a lot easier with a low squirt shaft like the Predator and this shot is difficult to consistently pull off no matter who you are. Someone who thinks this is an easy shot should try it for awhile and see what percentage they can pull off - and I mean stroked well enough to carry the cueball around the table.

I'm not saying there are not other low squirt shafts out there. The point is, there are situations where a low squirt shaft is an advantage, but they are mostly very difficult shots like this.

Chris

Chris Cass
04-06-2004, 08:25 AM
Hi Chris,

The great thing about a Pred shaft is that you can store your original shafts in new condition. The other is, every Pred shaft will play the same and you can also have matching rings if wanted. I don't use a Pred shaft but I won't put them down. I'm the type of player that supports other players. What ever works for you works for me. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Great points mentioned here. Tips, ferrules, joints, you name it. Everything has trade offs. Simply make adjustments for your game. I myself been down so many roads but still, I stress to all my friends. Don't waist valuable time.

Regards,

C.C.

tateuts
04-06-2004, 01:29 PM
I'm a convert to Predator. For me, they've been very useful. I play with a 30" shaft, and I've found most other long shafts to be too whippy on extreme english shots.

I've found the off-the-shelf 30" Predator is more accurate on these extreme shots (with my stroke) than any of my last six shafts which have been made Bill Stroud, Paul Huebler (custom) and Tim Scruggs.


Chris

Predator314
04-06-2004, 01:53 PM
I've been playing with a predator for a couple years. I don't remember it taking that long to get used to it. I haven't been one to trade cues off or buy new cues all the time. I've been shooting for 10 years. My first cue I bought was a McDermott that I still have. 3 years ago, I bought a Helmstetter and a Predator shaft for it. I struggled with the Helmstetter for a couple days, but that was about it. The squirt wasn't what sold me on the Helmstetter/Predator combo, it was the hit. I loved it.

The Helmstetter/Predator combo was stolen last year. I hit with a few Predators. I loved the hit of them. They felt very similiar to my Helmstetter/Predator combo. I bought a Predator 2 last year. I liked the way the Predator 2 played, but just wasn't happy with the solid black cue. I ended up selling the Predator 2 last week and bought me a 3K6.

If the Helmstetter had not been stolen, then I would still be playing with it. Not because of the squirt, but because of the way the cue/shaft felt when it hit the ball.