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eg8r
04-08-2004, 08:42 AM
Hmmm, I think this is a tough one... [ QUOTE ]

L.A. Man Shoots Car Thief, Charged with Murder
Wed Apr 7, 5:51 PM ET Add U.S. National - Reuters to My Yahoo!



LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A 26-year-old Los Angeles man who prosecutors say shot at two thieves stealing his car, killing one of them, was charged on Wednesday with murder.



Yoon Ho Song could face 50 years to life in prison if he is convicted of the first degree murder of Mario Sandoval Martinez and a special allegation of using a handgun, a spokeswoman for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office said.


Prosecutors say Song came out of his house to find two car thieves pushing his customized Honda out of his driveway in the predawn hours on Monday and opened fire, hitting Martinez, 25, in the back. The second suspect got away.


"The fact that your car is being stolen isn't a legal justification for killing somebody," Deputy District Attorney Frank Somes said. "Generally, you're not allowed to kill people unless they are committing a violent felony or you are acting in self defense."


Somes said police initially focused on Song as a crime victim but "essentially began questioning whether he was the victim or a suspect when they learned the person stealing the car had been shot in the back."


An attorney for Song, who was expected to make his first court appearance in the case as early as Wednesday, could not be reached for comment.
<hr /></blockquote> I can understand the DA making a point about the guy getting shot in the back because the man could have been trying to run away. However, the DA does not mention that. The guy could have been still pushing the car and made no attempt at running away from the car. If someone is in my yard stealing my car, I would shoot him also. If the guy is running away, off my property, I would not shoot him.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
04-08-2004, 09:13 AM
Perhaps he should have settled for a couple of warning shots /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Guess he lost his cool.

Whatever the case the penalty for car theft is not death.

But if the guy was in my house I'd probly shoot him, just because I'd be pissed /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

ChrisW
04-08-2004, 09:17 AM
The way the story reads I would have to agree with murder or manslaughter. It doesn't say whether the man tried to stop the theives before shooting. Just yelling that he has a gun may do the trick. I think I would have shot once into the ground first to see what type of reaction I get. Of course my gun would be pointed straight in their faces when they did react. If they run let them go. If they come to me its bang bang time.
Another option may have been to get in front of the car. Then his car becomes a weapon against him and he could shoot them in the chest which could be described as self defense.

Chris...Really would be calling the police from my living room.

eg8r
04-08-2004, 09:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The way the story reads <hr /></blockquote> I agree, that is why this is tough, they don't give enough information. I am with you on the calling the cops, I am not a guns-a-blazin' type person.

eg8r

Cueless Joey
04-08-2004, 09:46 AM
You see why we live in a fearful society?
If he did not shoot the scumbag, scumbag can come back and kill him too. OF course, that's hypothetical. Most criminals are repeat offenders. Stealing cars today, murderer tomorrow.
Sure, he should have not shot the scumbag if he was running away. But, it ain't murder. It might be unjustifiable homicide. Send him to prison for 6 yrs max. Marlon Brando's son was in jail how long?

Candyman
04-08-2004, 10:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> You see why we live in a fearful society?
If he did not shoot the scumbag, scumbag can come back and kill him too. OF course, that's hypothetical. Most criminals are repeat offenders. Stealing cars today, murderer tomorrow.
Sure, he should have not shot the scumbag if he was running away. But, it ain't murder. It might be unjustifiable homicide. Send him to prison for 6 yrs max. Marlon Brando's son was in jail how long?
<hr /></blockquote>

I agree that a blight is being removed from our society. In my part of the country this man would have probably been given a parade.

moblsv
04-08-2004, 10:24 AM
As others have pointed out, this is light on the details.

First I do not think that it is appropriate for somebody to designate themselves judge, jury and executionor especially for a property crime. That said, I have an even bigger problem with people taking it upon themselves to steal my stuff.

Now here's the part where somebody will call me a bigot, or something similar. When I was younger and living in a bad neighborhood I might have done the same. I was constantly on edge because I couldn't even put something in my garage without it getting stolen, I had a motorcyle, a bicycle, a sailboard and more stolen in seperate thefts and was constantly cleaning up gang graffiti. If I had caught one of those punk gang members back then I would probably have dome the same thing. Now I live in a nice suburban neighborhood and feel safe. If I caught a couple of kids out doing the same thing now I would most likely scare them off or just call the cops. (not that the cops would do anything)

cheesemouse
04-08-2004, 10:42 AM
While living in Los Angeles back in the 70's my apt was robbed/cleaned out and I asked the cop what I should do if I caught any theif in the act (it was a tough neiborhood)? He said "if you shot the bastard and he falls thru your patio doors to the outside just remember to drag him back inside".....where I live now there would be no investigation...."He was stealing your car so you shot him?" "That's right, officer.".......Well, ok then....

highsea
04-08-2004, 10:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>Yoon Ho Song could face 50 years to life in prison if he is convicted of the first degree murder of Mario Sandoval Martinez and a special allegation of using a handgun, a spokeswoman for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office said.
<hr /></blockquote>

So I wonder how they get first degree murder out of this? It's kind of hard to see premeditation here or the death being the result of another crime being committed by the homeowner.

Most big cities won't even send the cops to respond to a property crime anymore. Here in Seattle they just mail you a report form and tell you to call your insurance company. This is even if the crime is in progress when you call them!

-CM

highsea
04-08-2004, 10:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> Perhaps he should have settled for a couple of warning shots /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Guess he lost his cool.<hr /></blockquote>

LOL, Then the guy has 2 less bullets when they start shooting back!

He should've shouted at them to stop, then when they turned around, let'em have it. Then he can claim they were "reaching" for a gun.

-CM~~has no sympathy for a theif getting shot while stealing someone's car.

Qtec
04-08-2004, 11:05 AM
He could claim that he was only following the Govt's policy of "Pre-emption". /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Its a possibility.

Q

Wally_in_Cincy
04-08-2004, 11:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr>LOL, Then the guy has 2 less bullets when they start shooting back! <hr /></blockquote>

I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Cueless Joey
04-08-2004, 11:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr>LOL, Then the guy has 2 less bullets when they start shooting back! <hr /></blockquote>

I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote>
Ahahahaha. But, you sound more like Jim Carey. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I can see it now. They're gonna brand this man ( I believe he is Korean) a racist.
Hey, whatever happened to a man's home is his castle thingie?
My computer teacher was a cop. He told us, to buy one of those guns with no numbers. Take it to the forest and fire a few rounds with it.
Keep it as your drop gun. Someone invades your home and you shot him? Throw the drop gun near or around him. Make sure you wipe off your drop gun for prints, put his finger prints on it, then drop it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

highsea
04-08-2004, 11:54 AM
What do you want to bet that the DA tracks the other thief down and offers him immunity to testify for the State?

-CM

ChrisW
04-08-2004, 12:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> What do you want to bet that the DA tracks the other thief down and offers him immunity to testify for the State?

-CM <hr /></blockquote>

Well that only stands to reason. When if fact they were really pushing the car back into the driveway after it had innocently rolled out into the street. So given the chance this fine example of humanity will testify that he and his friend were unarmed and not given any warning to the brutal, cold-blooded slaying of his friend.

Chris...Ooops, I forget to play the race card.

Sid_Vicious
04-08-2004, 12:11 PM
My plain, simple view is that if someone invades my property for acts of ill intent, be it robbery or whatever, that they are fair game, AND that the longer it takes us a society accept that phylosophy, the more that these kinds of crimes are going to escelate. Whenever crooks wonder whether they'll face a homeowner with a gun, they move onto easier targets, and when more of them fall to homeowner's bullets(no apologies for putting it that way folks), the quicker home and property invasions will recede. We're treating criminal breach like we as a country fights real wars...too damn socially correct. NOBODY who is deemed as commiting a crime and fatally injured during that criminal process deserves protections from the law, especially as an after fact. Absolutely noone knows what a criminal who's caught in the act of home theft, will do to you when cornered, and you as the property owner should have every recourse to assume that you are correct in protecting your personal self. "Fire warning shots." You guys live in a cartoon or TV world...SID

MikeM
04-08-2004, 12:19 PM
Not tough at all. It's murder pure and simple. You can be angry at someone stealing your property, but you shouldn't be able to kill them. I wouldn't deem it 1st degree however. I doubt he premeditated the act. Still he should do a long jail term for this.

Sid, you just leave me speechless.

MM

Wally_in_Cincy
04-08-2004, 12:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr>
..."Fire warning shots." You guys live in a cartoon or TV world...SID <hr /></blockquote>

Actually you be surprised what the sound of a gunshot can do to change a young punk's attitude /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Hey Sid, with the rest of your post you're sounding like a right-winger. Welcome to the club /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

woody_968
04-08-2004, 12:33 PM
Not to sound cold or anything, but all this because they were stealing his tricked out HONDA! Not that they are bad cars, I wouldnt mind having one, but if I were going to steal a car I would set my sites a little higher /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Cueless Joey
04-08-2004, 12:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> My plain, simple view is that if someone invades my property for acts of ill intent, be it robbery or whatever, that they are fair game, AND that the longer it takes us a society accept that phylosophy, the more that these kinds of crimes are going to escelate. Whenever crooks wonder whether they'll face a homeowner with a gun, they move onto easier targets, and when more of them fall to homeowner's bullets(no apologies for putting it that way folks), the quicker home and property invasions will recede. We're treating criminal breach like we as a country fights real wars...too damn socially correct. NOBODY who is deemed as commiting a crime and fatally injured during that criminal process deserves protections from the law, especially as an after fact. Absolutely noone knows what a criminal who's caught in the act of home theft, will do to you when cornered, and you as the property owner should have every recourse to assume that you are correct in protecting your personal self. "Fire warning shots." You guys live in a cartoon or TV world...SID <hr /></blockquote>
Tap, tap, tap.

SpiderMan
04-08-2004, 01:59 PM
Yoon Ho Song's biggest mistake was living in California, where deadly force laws are extremely burdensome to crime victims. Mr Song is in violation of the law in California, and if he is not indicted it will be for political or publicity (public opinion) reasons. He should have known better.

Even in Texas, his actions would have been legal only at night. Here, deadly force is a legal response to simple theft if it occurs after dark. The rationale is that the theft victim should not be required to determine what level of injury threat is posed by the perpetrator (ie, is he armed?) when darkness is a compounding factor.

In broad daylight, we (Texans) are not allowed to shoot a thief that is not threatening us, but a robber may be shot at any hour.

SpiderMan

Ralph S.
04-09-2004, 01:10 AM
One very strong possibility, is the shooter will garner a fair amount of juror sympathy, as well as public sympathy. After all, he was the initial victim of a crime. My verdict: the charges will get plead down to a manslaughter indictment with a lighter sentence than normally given.

eg8r
04-09-2004, 06:46 AM
I agree, if I was steal a car (with the possibility of getting shot) it would never be a honduh. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r &lt;~~~love my honda /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Singlemalt
04-12-2004, 04:38 AM
Well, the DA is correct on this one.

Here in NC if you are a conceal carry permit holder (I am), scenarios like this are taught in our class. This was just some very bad judgement on the person who fired the shots, and even worse shooting them as they were leaving. Simply put, your life has to be in great danger or in danger of great bodily harm.

26 years old, wow.

Predator314
04-12-2004, 07:39 AM
I would have probably done the same thing if it was one of my vehicles.

A similar experience:

When I was in college, I worked at a convenience store that was owned by my friend's dad. My friend was the manager. One night, my friend was working and 3 guys (around 18-20 years old) came in, grabbed a case of beer, and hauled ass back out the door. We kept a .38 caliber pistol under the counter for protection. My friend was watching them the whole time. When they ran, he grabbed the pistol, jumped the counter, and shot 6 shots at the those guys. He claims he was shooting at them. He didn't hit any of them (that we know of). They kept running. I saw the whole thing on the security tapes.

I think this was a bit overboard. No need in killing a "kid" over a $15 case of beer. By looking at the tapes, either he is a horrible shot or wasn't really trying to hit anyone.

=k=
04-12-2004, 07:43 AM
he only made one mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he shoulda burried the piece of crap..