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View Full Version : DO YOU THINK 9BALL IS A GAME OF LUCK?



sevenball
04-08-2004, 01:06 PM
i hear alot of people say there is alot of luck in 9 ball. but i dont buy it. i dont beleave 9ball has very much luck in it at all. ill tell you why.

1.) there is only one ball to get position on. you can miss position on a ball and have 7 other balls to shoot at.

2.) when you play 9ball how often do you bump other balls around chaning the game inadvertintly (other than breakouts). in other game your alway seeing the game changing mostly not intenssionaly.

3.) when playing safe you must hit 1 ball 1st to make a safe that being the lowest ball on the table.

4.) to slop a ball in 9 ball you have to be pritty far off your shot, excuding the cross side/corner that turns into a double cross. that is the highest slop shoot in the game and you still have to hit the ball harder than i like to to make it.

5.) about the luck of your opponent running 8 balls and missing the 9, well... were you lucky or did you opponent miss the ball? you still have to make it. is that lucky or unlucky?

stockman4180
04-08-2004, 01:19 PM
OK, I'll be first and take the heat of disputing, somewhat, what you have to say.

EVERY pool game has a cetain amount of luck built into it. Making something on the break is the first example. In 7-ball, to quote the pro's, "it is everything". 9-ball is much the same. Since you don't have 15 balls going around there is more of a CHANCE(??) that a ball will go in on the break. If it does you can then control, to some degree, the game. That, then, leads into the other variable, the skill of the player. It takes skill in every game to win. Combinations, banks, LEAVES especially. The lower ranked player will not rely on leaves and push shots as much as the higher ranked player. I can't put a percentage on the luck vs skill in any game but I do believe there is more luck involved in 9-ball than 8-ball and more in 8-ball than one pocket. I could go on but I think that is enough to help get things going /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Steve Lipsky
04-08-2004, 04:13 PM
Hi Sevenball. I truly enjoy 9-ball, but I feel a need to respond here. Please see below.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sevenball:</font><hr> i hear alot of people say there is alot of luck in 9 ball. but i dont buy it. i dont beleave 9ball has very much luck in it at all. ill tell you why.

1.) there is only one ball to get position on. you can miss position on a ball and have 7 other balls to shoot at.

<font color="blue">I assume you meant and don't have 7 other balls to shoot at (or, you were editing and accidentally removed "In 8-ball, you can miss and have 7 other balls to shoot at"). This is true. But the luck factor most people refer to is when their opponents miss and leave them safe. Using your logic above, this is a fairly possible occurrence. </font color>

2.) when you play 9ball how often do you bump other balls around chaning the game inadvertintly (other than breakouts). in other game your alway seeing the game changing mostly not intenssionaly.

<font color="blue">While this is a legitimate point, it in no way negates the game's luck. It's just one facet of the game that comes up less often than in 14.1 or 1-P. </font color>

3.) when playing safe you must hit 1 ball 1st to make a safe that being the lowest ball on the table.

<font color="blue"> Sorry, I must be missing your point. Has anyone ever claimed this to be involved in the so-called "luck factor" of 9-ball? </font color>

4.) to slop a ball in 9 ball you have to be pritty far off your shot, excuding the cross side/corner that turns into a double cross. that is the highest slop shoot in the game and you still have to hit the ball harder than i like to to make it.

<font color="blue">It seems you are trying to apply reverse logic here, in an effort to claim that slopped shots shouldn't happen in 9-ball. But... they do. It's not incredibly often, of course, and it certainly happens less so on the higher levels than on the lower ones. But even this is counterbalanced in that a slopped shot from a pro yields a larger swing in the match than does a similar shot from a beginner. </font color>

5.) about the luck of your opponent running 8 balls and missing the 9, well... were you lucky or did you opponent miss the ball? you still have to make it. is that lucky or unlucky?

<font color="blue"> Again, I don't know many people that would point to this situation and say it proves there is a luck factor in 9-ball. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

The major factors of the game which are susceptible to luck (in my opinion) are:

1) Unintentional safes after a miss - remember, according to your logic in your first point, this has a decent chance of happening everytime your opponent ends his inning on a mistake.

2) The break. Here's an example. Say I break, the balls spread wide open, and there is a ball heading toward the corner pocket. It's getting there slowly though. On the last rotation of the ball, it just barely stops before dropping. This game has become a gimme for my opponent. If the ball falls, however, it's a gimme for me. Now, this is an extreme example, but there's a lot of variation on this principle that occurs with more frequency (cueball kicked into the pocket, object ball kicked in/out of a pocket, etc...).

3) In any given set, a player might be able to truthfully say that his tables were significantly either easier or harder than his opponent's. A well-known pro in my area once told me after a tough loss to a weaker opponent, "It seemed every time he broke he had a mickey-mouse out, and every time I did I had to solve a puzzle." 9-ball is similar to 8-ball in this regard, but not to straight pool. There is much less variance in the difficulty of two 14.1 racks than there is in 9-ball, and in my experience it can make the difference in a tight match.

Anyway, just my opinion. I still love the game.

- Steve

phil in sofla
04-08-2004, 04:32 PM
Quote:

"9-ball ain't no game of skill. It's all luck."

5-time (or is it 7-time?) US Open 9-ball Champion, Earl Strickland, bitterly holding forth outside the US 9-Ball Open venue, 2003.

I'm not sure I'd agree with Earl to that extent, but one has to admit, the man has credentials.

Pelican
04-08-2004, 08:26 PM
ANY GAME that uses a ball or balls is subject to a certain degree of luck.

Keith Talent
04-08-2004, 09:05 PM
Probably more about luck for top players, but mostly skill for the rest of us mere mortals. Meaning, that in a set between C and say, low B players, both of them will probably get a chance or two at running out most every rack, so it will usually come down to who's playing better.

But with the heavyweights, like Steve said, a random turn of the ball often will decide a game, and quite possibly, the flow of a match.

sevenball
04-09-2004, 05:00 AM
a lot of very good points here. and a few thing i did not consider. personally it may be i just feel like i see more luck in 8 ball then again it could be the way i look at the rolls too. i do enjoy reading your input thanx.

stickman
04-09-2004, 10:52 AM
There is a certain amount of luck involved with any pool game. My displeasure involves 9 ball matches with lower skill level players, that constantly wing at the nine. Sometimes it earns dividends. For the most part, I see very limited luck involved, with higher level players, other than the occasional lucky leave. Most are well planned and executed shots. Some of the lower level players lack the confidence or skill to run consecutive balls and resort to riding the nine. I appreciate the well shot combo, or carom, but the slopped in nine balls bug me. I'd like the game better if unintentionally made nine balls were spotted, and the nine had to be called.

It's still a great game. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

PQQLK9
04-09-2004, 10:58 AM
Ain't no luck in 1 hole /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif