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TheFish
04-12-2004, 06:51 AM
Yeh, I know it seems kind of rude. But can we do that. I mean when we are about to plop down over 1K is it acceptable to try to bargain with these cuemakers, and will some of these makers budge. I am sure a maker like southwest doesnt have to, and probably wont. But I got thes egreat cue in mind, and its gonna cost me close to 1800 at the makers asking price, i just wanna pay 1600, is that too unreasonable?

Anyone every try, how did that go?:)

BLACKHEART
04-12-2004, 07:39 AM
Since you didn't see fit to fill out the "profile", for this site, I can't tell anything about you. How old are you, do you work or what kind of work you do? I can tell you this, IF you do work, you probably want to get your FULL pay on pay day. NOT 1/2 or 3/4 of your pay ,but ALL OF IT. Why would you expect a cue maker, to get less than he deserves for his work? When you go to a bar do you try to offer the bartender a dollar less, than the asking price for a beer? Do you say to the gas station attendent "$2 a gasolone is too much for gas, I'll give you $1.50?" There are a lot of Chineese Qs out there, loaded with DECALS, that look like an expensive Q, buy one of those...JER

Barbara
04-12-2004, 08:08 AM
Tap!! Tap!! Tap!!

Barbara

SpiderMan
04-12-2004, 08:10 AM
Is he out of line with others doing similar work? If so, he may be getting more because of his name or reputation. It's then up to you whether to pay his price or go to someone who does equal work but isn't as well-known.

SpiderMan

Predator314
04-12-2004, 08:11 AM
I agree with what you're saying, but do you buy a car by just picking one out and then giving the salesman the dollar amount on the window sticker?

I've never bought a custom cue, but I would just say it varies from cuemaker to cuemaker. The way I see it is that it doesn't hurt to ask.

Popcorn
04-12-2004, 08:15 AM
Maybe on a cue he has in stock, they drop the price at the shows all the time, but on a custom cue you should pay what he asks. You are asking him to put himself into building you a special cue to the best of his abilities, with his complete attention and desire, to making sure you are satisfied. But you one the other hand don't even want to pay him? I will say, some cuemakers do seem overpriced and if that is the case try another cuemaker. Expect to pay more for a custom one of a kind cue though, then one that is part of his line. Most cue makers don't even like doing it. They would much prefer building cues of there own design, rather then some goofy off the wall idea that come walking in the door.

TheFish
04-12-2004, 08:24 AM
Blackheart -My profile has nothing to do with my comment/question. You should judge people by their thoughts and actions, not their profile. I believe that my question was a veyr fair one. As another poster already mentioned, should I pay the sticker price for every item i see. Heres a tip, go to Asia, (Hong Kong or bangkok), go to the street markets, and pay street price. Enjoy yourself, you will be paying 25,000 for 3,000 camera.

By the way, your comment about gas, heres a concept for you. Gasoline is considered a commodity item - that means prices are relatively competitive, and near the balance of demand and supply.

Regarding the potshot about chinese qs with lots of decals. heres another economics lesson for you. Items wouldnt exist if their wasnt a demand for them.

Sorry, let me emphasize, $1600 is a lot of money for a cue, it doesnt matter that there are $25,000 cues out there. If you think all $1600 US will get you is a chinese Q wigth lots of decals, then you must be paying sticker price in USD for a cue priced in Korean won.

Popcorn - noone said I didn't want to pay. Evidentally, some people are under the concept that "bargaining" equates to cheap....keep in mind that in many businesses regardless of industries various individuals/companies put a overhead in price that permits bargaining, and the only fools are those who do not ask for bargains. Does it happen with cuemaking? I dunno, but i certainly wouldnt be surprised if it was. On one hand we have a group of RELATIVELY wealthy Japanese who are willing to pay craploads of money to Mottey, Capone, adn Scruggs, and then here is me, mr average, trying to earn my dime and really hope to get the cue of my dreams. Sorry, when I am about to spend over 1.5K US to buy a playing cue, I believ i am already paying a LOT OF RESPECT to the cuemaker at hand. I dun tihnk its like me trying to buy a 10,000 cue for 100 dollars.

Popcorn
04-12-2004, 08:35 AM
I am not sure why you directed any of this at me, I thought I gave you an honest rationale answer. It was, I guess, not the one you wanted to hear.

TheFish
04-12-2004, 08:36 AM
Blackheart - btw, that comment about the full pay. Its irrelevant at best, and possibly a plus to my view.

Of course i expect 100% pay on pay day - on our AGREED salary.

let me ask u a question, have u worked a regular CAREER job ( i dun mean a PT job for teenagers where htey get an hourly). do you accept the first offer they give you? Sorry, I have NEVER accepted the first offer i am given, and in fact, my final pay is usually 25 - 30% above their opening offer. These are pure negotiation tactics...are they getting their moneys worth? Here is the answer, if they thought i was RIPPING THEM OFF (or vice versa ), one of the two parties would not agree to the agreement. Eitehr they refuse to pay me a higher salary, or i refuse to accept the lower salary.

TheFish
04-12-2004, 08:38 AM
Popcorn - didn't intend to direct it at you. It just kinda bled off the response to blackheart. I was just addressing you specifically on the "not paying" issue.

My apologies /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

daviddjmp
04-12-2004, 08:46 AM
I think it is an unwise thing to do. I think you will get better service and a better cue if you do your research, pick a custom cue maker who makes cues you can afford, tell him what you want, and then pay what he asks. If you like the cue and want to get another from the same maker, you will be viewed as a valuable customer. If you try to bargain down the price on your first transaction, they will view you as a problem customer and probably not want to do business with you again. I definitely think there are a lot of negotiable retail situations, but in my opinion, this is not one of them. If you want to bargain on a new pool cue, my advice is go into a billiards retail outlet and get a discount on something they already have on the shelf-

Chris Cass
04-12-2004, 08:48 AM
Fish,

You have to remember or keep in mind. That, for instance when you get a South West for whatever, 7 yrs later it's worth more. The price you pay today is the price you'll pay when you get it.

The same for a Szamboti. Although Barry isn't taking orders as far as I know his cues are guarenteed to to make money. The same with Pruiet(sp?) and most all top master craftsmen. Don't try to be cheap about it. Your not being robbed, your being unreasonable. Pay the artist for their work. It's to your advantage, believe me.

No offense and I mean no disrespect but I'm tired of cheapa$$ pool players. If your looking for a deal then why not buy a great collectable that's been broken and repaired. I doubt you would think about it. I could see if your buying a production cue. Where the net might barter prices between companies.

1k sounds like a lot of money for most but that's almost the starting line for the Masters. Ernie Guteirez(sp? Gina cue) won't sell a cue under $1800. and that's no points. I'll tell ya. You should look to spend that money on a promising cuemaker. One that could become one of the best. Then, your investment would be worth something one day.

Cuemakers are like pool players in the fact they all go up in levels. Cuemakers go up in levels as their work becomes cleaner and attention to details when creating cues. They all start off as repairers then, assemblers. Once they master this they move on and upword through experience and knowledge from other cuemakers.

Take a few that have gone up in levels resently that I know of. Blackheart, Diveney, Durbin, Capone, Cantando(haven't seen his work but learned from a Master cuemaker). These are just to name a few. You might get a real collector cue in time. Either way, you'll have people looking for sure. Tell them what you like and Let them use their artistic ability. Remember, that's what they are. Artists with wood and design.

I do want to say though. Don't look to make a buck when searching for a cue. Look to Not lose over the long run. I personally look for a cue to play right for me. Spend the grand and make sure you like the hit. That's always number one.

You can probably tell I'm touchy about this subject. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good Luck,

C.C.

Chris Cass
04-12-2004, 08:50 AM
Jer,

Don't work yourself up over this stuff. I do enough for all the cuemakers out there. LOL I know exactly what your thinking.

BTW, congrats on your work as of late. You my friend are going places.

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Popcorn
04-12-2004, 08:52 AM
I put a question mark at the end of that comment, it was not an accusation. To be honest, you are asking the cuemaker to share your excitement and enthusiasm in the cue project and build you the cue of your dreams. If he meets your expectations, you may even want to pay him a bonus for his work.

daviddjmp
04-12-2004, 08:56 AM
I have to agree with Chris. I have both a Capone and a Chudy, and I paid what they wanted to charge and I have a good relationship with both of them. I have an interest in getting a Black Boar cue, and the last thing I will do is try to get Tony to sell me one cheaper than his going price. Those guys make less than 70 cues a year, but use some of the best technology available. I will pay through the nose for that, but it will be worth it to have one of their cues-

BLACKHEART
04-12-2004, 09:11 AM
This is a suject that is near & dear to my heart,(BLACK of course). I started making Qs in 1986. I've payed my dues. When I started out, I made Qs & sold them for what they cost me,just because I loved doing it & it gave me the money to make another one. That's how I learned my craft. Here I am 18 years later making a VERY reasonably priced ,good playing cue & I have people trying this s--t with me, all of the time. This BARGANING thing just happened to me, this past week. I buy shaft blanks for $7 a piece(+ shipping). Because of the poor quality, I can only use 1/2 of these, for Q shafts. That raises the price of each to $14. To get a shaft made, I then turn each of those pieces of wood, 8 times over 6 months. Then I add hand made joint rings & ferrules. Drill & tap the hole. Put on the tip. Cut & sand it to the finished size & finally spray paint the joint end. Then sand, wet sand & polish. Then a final sanding, sealing & burnishing of the shaft. ALL OF THIS FOR $100 for a Mcdermott cue. This jerk,(who asked for a hurry-up job, & makes $80,000+ on his job, has the balls to say he thinks it's too much & offers me $75. I SNAPPED IT OVER MY KNEE & ASKED HIM TO LEAVE & NOT COME BACK. You have definitly picked the wrong subject, this morrning as far as I'm concerned...JER

Vicki
04-12-2004, 09:35 AM
Fish,

You should consider that custom cue makers can only make a limited number of cues each year. They are making what seems to be a huge amount of money per cue but multiply that times the number of cues they make, then subtract their overhead. These guys are not really getting rich doing this work. They are basically on a fixed income since they can make only a limited number of their product. To increase their volume makes them production cue makers and decreases the value of their cues.

I strongly agree with some of the others who have advised you to search for a cue maker who can make the cue you want for a price you believe to be fair. Some cue makers charge more for the same cue than others, depending on their reputation & experience.

You mentioned buying a car and negotiating the price of the car. Here you are dealing with a mass production product and a salesman who is earning a commission based on the final sales price. Not the same as buying a product that is custom made from the maker himself.

Give these guys a break. I can tell you from experience that it is brutal to constantly have people asking you for a discount and questioning the value of your work. My boyfriend is a cue maker (one who has been mentioned in this thread several times) who is worth every penny he charges and not a cent less.

Vicki

stickman
04-12-2004, 09:43 AM
You should have snapped it over his head. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif J/K

I doubt that I would barter for a price prior to having work done. Certainly, after agreeing to a price and having the work done, there should be no negotiation.

Jim

Vicki
04-12-2004, 09:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> This is a suject that is near &amp; dear to my heart,(BLACK of course). I started making Qs in 1986. I've payed my dues. When I started out, I made Qs &amp; sold them for what they cost me,just because I loved doing it &amp; it gave me the money to make another one. That's how I learned my craft. Here I am 18 years later making a VERY reasonably priced ,good playing cue &amp; I have people trying this s--t with me, all of the time. This BARGANING thing just happened to me, this past week. I buy shaft blanks for $7 a piece(+ shipping). Because of the poor quality, I can only use 1/2 of these, for Q shafts. That raises the price of each to $14. To get a shaft made, I then turn each of those pieces of wood, 8 times over 6 months. Then I add hand made joint rings &amp; ferrules. Drill &amp; tap the hole. Put on the tip. Cut &amp; sand it to the finished size &amp; finally spray paint the joint end. Then sand, wet sand &amp; polish. Then a final sanding, sealing &amp; burnishing of the shaft. ALL OF THIS FOR $100 for a Mcdermott cue. This jerk,(who asked for a hurry-up job, &amp; makes $80,000+ on his job, has the balls to say he thinks it's too much &amp; offers me $75. I SNAPPED IT OVER MY KNEE &amp; ASKED HIM TO LEAVE &amp; NOT COME BACK. You have definitly picked the wrong subject, this morrning as far as I'm concerned...JER <hr /></blockquote>

I stand behind Blackheart in everything he said here. It is absolutely true and accurate.

Any respectable cue maker would have done the same thing with that shaft.

Vicki

Chris Cass
04-12-2004, 09:47 AM
Fish,

Going off on Blackheart is totally out of line. Sure, your profile means nothing. All that says is that you don't want to play with us. Let me tell you a little about JER. He's one hell of a cue maker and devotes tons of hrs building and designing cues. He expects to be paid for his hrs and wether or not you think you've gotten a deal is all in the buyers market. It will be too.

Jer also sponsors many players that post here. It's not all about money. He's kind and caring not just about pool players but about people. His point is clear. Why ask him for a deal when, your getting his work to the best of his ability and long hrs in the cue?

This tells you that he's not a theif. If he was stealing he wouldn't have gotten bothered by the post to begin with. It appeared that your looking to not give him as a cuemaker the money deserved for his work. I know you probably didn't mean this but that's what I read too.

About the profile deal. Tell you a story. I went through a major battle with Cancer and am winning so far. When it came down to it everyone here was supportive beyond friendship. A famous cuemaker here gave me his own cue worth well over $3000. He did this out of the kindness of his own heart. It was there for me to fight back. He wasn't thinking of money. He was thinking of me. Nobody in my entire life ever did anything like that for me.

We are family here. You can become a part of us or not. It's your choice. You did say you didn't want to be rude so maybe we all just got off on the wrong foot. Many people here will bend over backwards to help one of our own out if possible.

JER is a standup guy and is my friend. There are many cuemakers that post here and you couldn't make a better friend. JAT

C.C.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-12-2004, 09:53 AM
Dude, that's just bad form. IMO

Either you can afford it or you can't.

There's a guy in South Carolina named Jimmy Reeves. He's an up-and-comer and sells his cues for somewhat less than the estabilished guys. I don't have contact info for him but I can probably find it if you want to talk to him.

Troy
04-12-2004, 10:08 AM
Don't get worked up over this Jer. It ain't worth it.
The guy is probably just young and doesn't know any better... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Troy

Cueless Joey
04-12-2004, 10:37 AM
My local maker and mentor Kerry Zeiler dealt with the bargaining thing for ages. He did not budge on his asking price b/c he felt he made top quality cues.
Now he sells his no points cues for $900 and up and has two years worth of orders.
Is it rude to ask for a lower price? Tough call. I know one cue collector who goes to the expos and does not buy cues on the first day. He buys them on the last day when the expos are closing and asks the makers very politely if they want to keep the cues or sell them to him for his asking price. More often than not, the makers sell them for his asking price. He doesn't ask for ridiculous price of course. And he is a reputed collector.
If the cue you are looking at has cnc points and inlays, the maker would probably not mind discounting it.
If the maker has a lot of pride in his workmanship , the the hit of his cues and his reputation, he probably won't budge. But, if he has dozens of cues unsold after going to the expo, he will surely budge.

Jay
04-12-2004, 10:44 AM
Instead of bargaining, what I would suggest is to tell the cuemaker what your budget is and Im sure they will be able to accomodate you with what they can. You may not have all the little inlays but Im sure that you will still get the quality. I think that a lot of players out there take the work that goes into cues at face value and dont realize how much work goes into those cues. Now Im not saying that you are wrong in asking and Im sure that everyone on this board thought the same way at some point but what needs to be understood is that a custom cue is exactly that a custom cue. You are buying something that is made specifically for you and even though there may be another cue out there just like it, it will always be one of a kind. Cuemaking is not an easy process and even the simplest designs can be laborous and in that aspect a cuemaker deserves the price that he is asking and nothing less. Let us not take what they do for granted!

crawdaddio
04-12-2004, 11:03 AM
Hey Blackheart,
A little off subject, but I as well am from central Illinois and I'm wondering where exactly you are and your name. I would be interested in looking at some of your cues. Do you have a website? I would rather stop by your shop in person if you're close enough though. Email me if you don't want to post the info.
Thanks,
David~~still searching for that perfect cue
crawdaddio@poolgods.com

Bob_Jewett
04-12-2004, 12:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TheFish:</font><hr>... But I got [this] [great] cue in mind, and [it's] gonna cost me close to 1800 at the [maker's] asking price, i just wanna pay 1600, is that too unreasonable? <hr /></blockquote>
I've never tried to haggle with a cue maker. The conversation usually goes, "I'd like this length, and this diameter, and this wrap, and this wood and this added decoration, and this balance. How much will it cost?" And then I say either yes or no, maybe after the cue maker proposes something slightly different. I suppose you could try saying, "I only have $1600 I can spend, and I really like features X,Y&amp;Z, how close can we come?" That seems like a better way than saying, "I want to pay $1600 for your $1800 model." Or, try going to an expo where the cue maker is selling. Sometimes they would rather sell at a lower price than have to carry something back home. Of course that way you aren't really getting a custom cue.

Eric.
04-12-2004, 12:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TheFish:</font><hr> Yeh, I know it seems kind of rude. But can we do that? <hr /></blockquote>

Fish,

I don't think it's rude, but I don't think it's practical either. My opinion about value in anything is that it ain't nothing more than what 2 parties agree something is worth.

Cuemakers feel their product can fetch a certian price based on their reputation/workmanship/talent/etc. I think the big question here is that do YOU feel you're gettin your moneys worth? It sounds like you know what you want, maybe you should list what you want in a cue and send it to several cuemakers whose cues play well for you. If you get one to do it at your price, then everyone wins.

Just a couple of thoughts.


Eric &gt;deep thoughts

catscradle
04-12-2004, 12:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> Since you didn't see fit to fill out the "profile", for this site, I can't tell anything about you. How old are you, do you work or what kind of work you do? I can tell you this, IF you do work, you probably want to get your FULL pay on pay day. NOT 1/2 or 3/4 of your pay ,but ALL OF IT. Why would you expect a cue maker, to get less than he deserves for his work? When you go to a bar do you try to offer the bartender a dollar less, than the asking price for a beer? Do you say to the gas station attendent "$2 a gasolone is too much for gas, I'll give you $1.50?" There are a lot of Chineese Qs out there, loaded with DECALS, that look like an expensive Q, buy one of those...JER <hr /></blockquote>

I see your point, but it seems to me it fair for a person to say to you (or any other cuemaker) "well this cue is worth 1600.00 to me" and for you to turn around and say "well I can't sell it for less than 1800.00, take it or leave it." Then the person buying it either takes it or goes elsewhere. I fail to see where that kind of exchange is unfair. It isn't a personal insult to the cuemaker, it is just business. I understand that a cuemaker has more of a personal investment in his cue than a car salesman does in his product, but it is the same principal.

Rich R.
04-12-2004, 01:28 PM
Fish, would it make you feel better, if a cue maker quoted you a price of $3000 and then let you talk him down to $1800? This is what is done with a lot of merchandise in our society. They are overpriced and then put on sale or left open to negotiations.
There is also other merchandise, where there is no reduction possible. The price is set and that is what you pay. I believe they are considered fair market items, or something like that. This is the category where I believe custom cues fall.

Personally, I would prefer that I be told the fair cost of the item, in this case a cue, and then decide whether I was going to pay the price or let it go.

justbrake
04-12-2004, 01:29 PM
I don't see trying to get the best price on anything, I have seen dealers that always sell below the the makers price! and if you buy off them you won't get any gaurantee it won't warp!or any imperfections but if you buy from the manufactura you can always complain and get satisfaction from them they will honor and stand buy there merchandise because of word of mouth. but for me I'd rather buy something with age and not find out in 4 months down the line that its starting to warp aged is best! and I can always bargain with these second hand cue handlers as to make me an offer deal because they want to. just my opion /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Brian in VA
04-12-2004, 03:39 PM
TheFish,

Can you ask for a better deal? Absolutely.

Is it rude? Depends but most people who wouldn't ask for a discount such as this think so. The cue maker will probably think so, too.

If the cuemaker is worth their salt, they'll politely tell you no thank you and send you on your way. If you then tell them you'd like the cue at the price they've quoted, they'll tell you it's just gone up $200. That's what I would do if someone tried that on me when I was quoting them on a custom piece of furniture. I don't need to make another piece that badly. Why do you think there's a waiting list? It's because my work is worth it, as is Blackheart's.

If you find someone who'll do the cue at the price you want, do you plan on asking them for even more money off?

That's what I thought.

Brian in VA

Barry
04-12-2004, 04:37 PM
One day a guy is on the phone ordering a cue from Gus Szamboti. When he finished describing what he wanted Gus told him that would cost $500. The guy complained, and Gus then said $600. Do you want to go for $700?

true story

Barry

JohnBarton
04-12-2004, 04:51 PM
Generally I'll pay the artist's asking price unless I am buying something that is an item that is being produced in quantity. There is a difference between a little haggling and lowballing. To me, offering $1600 for an $1800 doesn't seem out of line but you never know where the cuemaker is at with it. He may only really be able to clear $300 or so on the $1800 or he might have more room.

The thing I look at is what kind of relationship do I want to have with the person I am dealing with. If the relationship is going to be purely transactional and I probably won't have much contact with him then I might try and bargain a bit. If this is someone that I would like to have as a friend and ally then I will gladly pay the price they quote me because I know that down the road we will be reciprocating with one another quite a bit.

The other thing to consider is service. If you pay the full price then you are likely going to get the full service after the sale. One thing I don't want is for my cuemaker to be upset about selling a cue to me.

Maybe you could work something out where you could get the cue in your hands for $1600 and pay the other $200 off in payments. Maybe you could work it off by bringing the cuemaker qualified prospects for his work. I would look for some kind of solution like that before I asked for a discount.

Lastly, I always ask people who bargain with me if they would be willing to work for me at the same discount they are asking for. In other words if you are asking for 50% off ask yourself if you would be willing to do the same amount of work for half the pay you get now. This is usually for those that are really lowballng me but it's a valid consideration.

Good luck with your new cue.

John

TheFish
04-12-2004, 04:54 PM
Thank you to the people for the polite replies. I believe I asked a very fair question.

Let me tell you why, I asked the question. How many websites of cuemakers do you see with a fixed priced list. There is Ted Harris...umm.besides that..maybe mottey(Not sure). Who are hte others. The prices are so arbitrary...I am sure soime cue makers have price lists that we cnanot see which are fixed, but I am also sure that some don't. I think that htis isn't exactly a fair operation for both sides of the party.

I am well aware of Blackheart cues, so obviously I understand why Mr. Blackheart would be upset by my post, and i am also in a business where customers try to bargain because the price of my services. Let me underline it now, I never bargain, BUT..at the same time..every one of my customers can view the price list on line and i have a specific policy tpo never bargain because i would never want any customer to wonder how much his/hew fellow customer is paying.

Now, just a short economics note. A perfect market for a supplier is to supply items at variable prices for variable customers. Its illegal in the US, thats swhy prices have to be listed in the supermarkmet items. Obviously, cues are different, because they are custom, but at the same time, thye operate in a situation where they have the luxury to take advantage of the situation, where they can charge one potential customer 2000 for one cue, and another customer 5000 for a NEARLY exact same cue - I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY DO THAT. but without price lists open to the general public, noone knows whats going on.

For those who ask me, how i feel if someone asked me to bargain...let me ask hyou think in return. How owuld hyou feel if you met some guy who had a very similar cue from the same cuemaker built nera the same time, but 1/2 the price of yours?




Now to all the cuemakers, I apologize for bringing this issue to light, and after this discussion i will probably NOT try to bargain and just pay the asking price, but stilll the economics points I have brought up is 100% true - this is a biased market heavily in favor of the cue maker.

bigalerickson
04-12-2004, 05:02 PM
Blackheart and those listening,

I think that Fish brought up a very legitimate question, and it seems like the buzzards started swarming.

When I was in Jordan, and Israel shopping for clothes, hookah pipes, magic carpets, and camel rides I knew one thing for certain. Whatever price initially given was a starting point for negotiation. Because bartering is part of their culture. In fact, in my dealings with people of Persian descent in America I have found that not being a strong negotiator is seen as a major weakness. Bartering and bargaining is part of their culture and how things are done.

Similarly in America, when buying a car it is part of the American custom to negotiate the final sale price, along with the interest rate and number of payments. If someone doesn't know that every single one of those factors are negotiable they are simply an uneducated buyer.

Similarly, Mr Fish, is trying to educate himself. he has never bought a custom cue before, and is seeking to find the custom cue's business culture to find out how to properly conduct himself to get a good deal. This is very reasonable, and I would say even admirable, because he wants to be an educated buyer.

In the cue world the example would be when buying a manufactured cue at your local pool supplier. It is customary, from my personal experience, to either be offered or ask for a fair discount on accessories on the day of purchase (cue case, scuffer, chalk). Luckily my first purchase I was told this was customary (by him offering) and then on subsequent purchases I have asked for and always gotten without hesitation or regret or fair discount (10-20%).

In my opinion, negotiating for a custom cue would be like negotiating for a piece of artwork. It can be done, which will offend some and not seem out of place by others, but is simply done in poor taste. Because if i am commissioning someone to do something for me, and do it brilliantly, I want them to throw themselves into the project. Not merely, do it because they need a paycheck, but rather have them doing it because they are happy that they are making something that I will have with me for the rest of my life.

Those are my thoughts on this subject. But please PLEASE be nice to people on here, no reason for all this hostility.

peace,

Alex

JohnBarton
04-12-2004, 05:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TheFish:</font><hr> Thank you to the people for the polite replies. I believe I asked a very fair question.

Now to all the cuemakers, I apologize for bringing this issue to light, and after this discussion i will probably NOT try to bargain and just pay the asking price, but stilll the economics points I have brought up is 100% true - this is a biased market heavily in favor of the cue maker. <hr /></blockquote>


Well, in some cases it is in favor of the cuemaker but in most cases it is not. The cue market is saturated with supply, much more than demand. So the consumer really has the upper hand due to choice. The only time the consumer does not have the upper hand is when dealing with one of the elite cuemakers who have work for years to come and where demand outstrips supply.

There are plenty of guys who make jam up cues for sub $1000 prices who also work day jobs and can afford to subsidize their quasi-hobby.

I generally think to myself if I built this would I be comfortable asking this amount for it? If so then I have no problem paying that much for it.

I have a few cuemaking friends who make great cues that I think are a bit overpriced and others who I think are selling to cheaply for the work they do. In both cases the cuemakers have plenty of happy customers who praise the cues endlessly. The important thing is that both parties win from the transaction.

Now, I understand your point about wanting to get the best price available and not wanting to run into someone who paid less than you did. I look at it this way, if I am happy with the agreed upon price then I could care less what someone else paid. I got my satisfaction in the moment for what was bearable for me and that happiness is far more important than worrying about whether someone else has got it better than me.

I used to have a friend, who is a friend no longer, who would come to America and literally drag me with him through dozens of stores to comparison shop for the list of things he compiled in Germany that he wanted. He was deathly afraid of buying something and seeing it for less somewhere else. Finally I got tired of it and told him that we had already "spent" far more in time cost looking for the best deal than any potential difference in price could ever be.

The most striking example is that he spent three days hunting for Bose speakers, bought them and shipped them to Germany complete with a special transformer to compensate for the voltage difference, only to save what amounted to less than $100 if he had bought the same system from a German dealer 10 minutes from his house. Lovely, huh?

Anyway, I think your question was a valid one and something that needs to be discussed here.

Again, good luck with your cue.

John

Popcorn
04-12-2004, 05:44 PM
Just out of curiosity, you were talking about ordering a cue and asking questions like 2 years ago, about the same time you were talking about opening a pool room. Did you ever get a cue or open the room. Is this dream cue just a dream?

Barbara
04-12-2004, 05:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barry:</font><hr> One day a guy is on the phone ordering a cue from Gus Szamboti. When he finished describing what he wanted Gus told him that would cost $500. The guy complained, and Gus then said $600. Do you want to go for $700?

true story

Barry <hr /></blockquote>

LMAO!!!

There you go, Babe!

Barbara

Barbara
04-12-2004, 05:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TheFish:</font><hr>
Now to all the cuemakers, I apologize for bringing this issue to light, and after this discussion i will probably NOT try to bargain and just pay the asking price, but stilll the economics points I have brought up is 100% true - this is a biased market heavily in favor of the cue maker. <hr /></blockquote>

Damn skippy it is!! If a cuemanker ever gives you "The Tour" of their workshop and explains to you in detail how a cue is made and ALL the work goes into making a cue and the discards along the way, well then! Then, so now you know why so many learned persons are for the custom cuemaker's price vs bargaining skills. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Congrats on your lesson today!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Barbara

TheFish
04-12-2004, 06:58 PM
Popcorn good memory - or good useage of the features on these boards.

I never opened the pool room, the market here wasn't big enough, but I am considering opening a small pool club/bar with 2-3 tables.

BUT, in lieu of the pool room, I do have part ownership of two "hip" bars, and a dance club. The club was something that actually morphed from the concept of the pool room (funny how things work out). As for the custom cues, this would be my third, but just my first ordering direct from the cuemaker. If you read the history, you would have also noticed, i bought the gilbert 2 years ago.

So, definitely, I wouldn't bother posting here if I didnt plan to follow through.

TheFish
04-12-2004, 07:03 PM
One last note, I read the replies. I guess what summed it up best was basically the comparison to the artist and the customer..i wouldnt try bargaining with the artist, so in that respect...oops:) So hopefully in a year or so, or however long I have to wait, I can come back on these boards and talk about my new cue:)

Thanks again for all the comments (especially near the end, as they were more "educational", vs "naggatory (my new word).

At least this thread can serve for future reference.:D

BLACKHEART
04-12-2004, 07:46 PM
FISH; I've given your question a second reading &amp; I don't find anything wrong with you trying to bargin,BEFORE the order is placed, they can always say "NO". I also think that some cuemakers cues are over priced. My word has always been my bond &amp; if I quote a price, it's one that is fair, even though others may make a like Q, for much more money. My priceing is simple &amp; not nogotiable. I have a base price &amp; then give you prices for all of the things that can be added. Things like wooden or Ivory points,inlays, different ferrule materials etc. For example my base Q sells for $250. This Q with 4 cocobolo points quickly jumps up $470(because points are $55 each). Add 4 small Ivory diamonds &amp; it's easy to know the price is now $590(because these are $30 each). That's the price for you or any other customer. There is no bargining, it's a set FAIR price. A local bar owner ordered a Cocobolo Q made with stitch rings at A,B,C &amp; D locations &amp; 4 Ivory diamonds inlayed into the butt sleeve made,($410). When finished I went to his watering hole to deliver the Q &amp; hit some ball around. He offers me a hundred dollars less ,because "AFTER ALL, IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE MAKIN' A LIVIN' AT THIS". He didn't get the Q &amp; I don't go there anymore ..JER

Jay
04-12-2004, 10:33 PM
One thing that you should also consider is that even though the price of the cue his higher now than you want it to be, you should pay it anyways because Ive learned that some but not all cuemakers always treat repeat customers even better the next time they order. They give you better deals on your next order or some other incentive to order again. They like to see the same people come back for business because they know that it is guaranteed business and everything will usually run smoothly. If they think that you are going to be a good customer, you are courteous and not so bothersome, then they will be happy to work with you. Ive been talking to one cuemaker who gave me a quote a long time ago and has recently up'ed his prices but when I asked him about my quote he happily honored it. Cuemakers are not always set in stone, there is always some sort of give but you have to remember that you went to them for business not the other way around

Fred Agnir
04-13-2004, 07:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnBarton:</font><hr>Well, in some cases it is in favor of the cuemaker but in most cases it is not. The cue market is saturated with supply, much more than demand. So the consumer really has the upper hand due to choice<hr /></blockquote>Do you think this is true for the customized one-of-a-kind cues that I assume Mr. Fish is talking about?

I think each cuemaker is different, as far as economy goes. Some are demand-heavy. Some aren't.

All that being said, I'd want my cuemaker to be 100% committed to my project. Ask for a 10% discount on price, and you might get a 20% discount on committment.
YMMV, of course.

Fred

datplayer
04-13-2004, 08:13 AM
I think that you are just in your request. Cuemakers who do not post their prices, or instead have "Call #---- for details" are asking for it. What do they expect? No one wants to play games with their money, neither the buyer or the seller.

As far as the "myth" of custom cues going up in price after several years, I feel that this is bogus. I have rarely seen cues sell for the requested price, much less more than the original purchase price. Just look at billiardcue.com They have cues on that site that have been there for years with no buyers. Personally, I sold a Scruggs cue that I bought for $1100 for $1050 on ebay and was thrilled. Rarely have I seen these "collector cues" go up in value like everyone says.

Chris Cass
04-13-2004, 08:24 AM
Hey Fish,

Depending on how you play and moreso, what events you attend per yr you may have a recource. There's many excellent cuemakers that do travel the tournaments and shows to sell their equipment.

Just to name some, Jacoby, Diveney, Capone (this kids extremely impressive), and a bunch more. I'm personal freinds with both Dave and son Brandon Jacoby and Pat and Brian Diveney. These cuemakers sponsor players.

Now, these guys don't need a top 10 pro player nor even the pro at all. What they look for is a player that conducts themselves in a mature mannor, and one that represents them by maketing their cue. One that attends the tourneys and isn't afraid to pass out some cards and talk about the product.

I know Pat has a good thing going with a freind of mine. My friend Terry Porter is a very good player but he is also a great promoter. He's worked out with Pat that he'll get a cue to play with. He then will attend the tourneys and pass out some cards and he'll let anyone interested shoot with the cue for awhile. Every cue Terry gets from Pat is for sale. If he sells the cue Pat will give him like $100. and make him another. That's a great deal for my friend. He real does try to sell these cues for Pat. My friend is stand up too. These aren't cheap cues either but Terry is trust worthy.

I myself have been promoting South West cues for 13 yrs. I paid top dollar for mine in 1989 and received it in 91. I have made custom hats and even a jacket with the S.W. logo. I've been approached many times buy buyers and have sold many cues dispite the 7 yr waiting list at the time. Still, no kickback, no money off my cue or even the promise of a break on the next one I order.

One day last yr I called Laurie and told her that my cue was getting to collectable to shoot with and needed another. Well, Laurie told me I, Me had to wait 7 yrs for another. I was crushed. I was there for her when Jerry passed and have been ordering shafts and my cue let alone these shafts are expensive but even my constant support meant nothing. So, I quit.

I also have a Szamboti cue. It's a beaut too. I now have a Hat made and Jacket for Szamboti cues. The only problem now is that Barry isn't taking new orders. This my my new sponsor although I'm not sure if he needs one. LOL

Anyway, my point is you can do many things to reach your goals but bickering about the cost of a cue is not the way to go. Meeting and discussing with the cuemaker something that can bennifit both partys is the right way. This subject has probably gone way to far.

Regards,

C.C.~~Botiman.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan
04-13-2004, 08:56 AM
Fish,

I think the question you asked was a reasonable attempt to learn the protocol in this situation. On the other hand, I was not surprised at some of the negative fire you encountered, as people tend to be very defensive of their livelihood or that of their friends.

Also, the points you make in the attached quotation are quite valid.

Perhaps the bottom line is that different customers DO pay different prices for similar work from the same craftsman. If you don't already have a good feel for whether $1800 is fair from the maker of your choice, possibly you are not yet ready to buy.

Rather than discover the "fair market" price by haggling with various makers, why not wait a while on your purchase and do some harmless research. Play pool, and cruise the shows and internet resellers to get a true idea of the worth of certain maker's products. In other words, learn how much various guy's cues bring in the competitive secondary market. That will tell you who deserves the premium and who is just asking for it from the "fish" that walk through the door /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Maybe then you'd feel good about going with a guy whose product is valued by the open market; a strong indicator that he's not just jacking the price because he feels that he has "arrived", or feels that his cues are as good as Bill Schick's.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TheFish:</font><hr> Thank you to the people for the polite replies. I believe I asked a very fair question.

Let me tell you why, I asked the question. How many websites of cuemakers do you see with a fixed priced list. There is Ted Harris...umm.besides that..maybe mottey(Not sure). Who are hte others. The prices are so arbitrary...I am sure soime cue makers have price lists that we cnanot see which are fixed, but I am also sure that some don't. I think that htis isn't exactly a fair operation for both sides of the party.

I am well aware of Blackheart cues, so obviously I understand why Mr. Blackheart would be upset by my post, and i am also in a business where customers try to bargain because the price of my services. Let me underline it now, I never bargain, BUT..at the same time..every one of my customers can view the price list on line and i have a specific policy tpo never bargain because i would never want any customer to wonder how much his/hew fellow customer is paying.

Now, just a short economics note. A perfect market for a supplier is to supply items at variable prices for variable customers. Its illegal in the US, thats swhy prices have to be listed in the supermarkmet items. Obviously, cues are different, because they are custom, but at the same time, thye operate in a situation where they have the luxury to take advantage of the situation, where they can charge one potential customer 2000 for one cue, and another customer 5000 for a NEARLY exact same cue - I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY DO THAT. but without price lists open to the general public, noone knows whats going on.

For those who ask me, how i feel if someone asked me to bargain...let me ask hyou think in return. How owuld hyou feel if you met some guy who had a very similar cue from the same cuemaker built nera the same time, but 1/2 the price of yours?




Now to all the cuemakers, I apologize for bringing this issue to light, and after this discussion i will probably NOT try to bargain and just pay the asking price, but stilll the economics points I have brought up is 100% true - this is a biased market heavily in favor of the cue maker. <hr /></blockquote>

Popcorn
04-13-2004, 08:59 AM
Do you know of anything else you have bought and used that has held any of it's value? What could you get for your $150.00 pair of shoes, even un-worn? How about your car or watch. Even gold jewelry is only worth about 30% of what you paid. You bought a cue, used it and managed to sell when you wanted for almost what you paid and think that is bad? I have sold no name cues for good money, even most production cues hold some value. A good cue is always worth something and you can't say that for hardly anything else you own. Have a garage sale and you will get $40.00 for a couch you paid $600. for and $.50 for a shirt you paid $45.00 for. Cues hold value, even an old Meucci you will find a buyer at around half of the retail, not bad for a used item, most used items are worth nothing. You should never buy a cue based on it going up in value, that is not why you bought it. But it does hold a good portion of it's value and that is a nice bonus, and it may go up, you never know. A good "USED" cue is almost always worth what you paid, it is like you had the use of the cue for free when you sell it. Most cues sell on their own merits, and a good cue, is a good cue, no matter who made it and should bring good money. Like anything, if you are trying to do a quick sale because you need money, you may not do well, but if it is nice, there is a buyer out there. You can't say that for very many things you own. Try to sell that computer you are sitting in front of. It's going down in value everyday till it's scrap, even in working condition.

Vicki
04-13-2004, 10:25 AM
Fish,

You certainly have asked a fair question. It is an interesting question - one people clearly have strong opinions about. I am suprised by the number of responses you've received.

You have also brought up a valid point about published price lists. Many cuemakers do not publish them and I'm sure they have very good reasons for that - especailly for not publishing them on-line. If you want to know, ask. If they want to tell you, they will. If they don't, they won't. If they won't, don't work with them. If you don't trust someone you should not be working with them, period. I don't care if it's a cuemaker, realtor, car salesman, doctor, whatever. No trust = no deal.

Correct me if I'm worng Jer, but the reason Blackheart is upset is because cuemakers deal with more of this bargaining than people probably realize. The number of letters they get from league members who think that in 10 years they are gonna be world champions asking for free cues would astound you. The number of times they hear, "Forty-five dollars for a new ferrule! You can't be serious!" from a guy on the phone who has a $50 cue. The number of letters from Indonesia offering to buy a dozen cues and they'll fax the credit card info (scam). The number of e-mails from people who are "cue dreamers". These dreamers e-mail multiple times a day for weeks and weeks and weeks and they expect a response to every e-mail. I've seen letters from prisioners asking for paid internships. I've seen a popular woman pro (who has never won an event - not even close) ask for sponsorshop with a salary (a big salary) and free products, and fees paid. The number of calls and letters they get asking for free products to help a "newly founded regional tour." All the friends who assume they get their cues for free. All the friends who assume they get their repairs for free. All the friends who think their work should be pushed to the front of the line. All the girlfriend's friends who thing they are now entitled to free stuff. All the "dealer" inquiries from "dealers" who want to buy 1 or 2 cues at a substantial discount and if they are able to sell them they'll order a half dozen more.

I could go on and on and on... there is not a single day that my cuemaker/boyfreind does not deal with tons of this. And it's not the individual letter/call/e-mail/inquiry that is the problem - it's the cumulative effect. It's why I feel the need to defend my cuemaker and why cuemakers get a little riled up. It's a sensitive issue for them.

You should definitely NOT appologize for asking the question. You have created an interesting discussion and I am glad you asked.

Good luck buying your cue.

Vicki

Here is a real letter received by my boyfriend... How much of this could you take everyday? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I wonder how many other cuemakers he sent this to?
__________________________________________________ ________
Hello,
&gt; My name is Xxxx Xxxxxx and I am a billiard enthusiast. I currently play with a Player Cue and realize this is a low end cue. Recently I spoke with several pool professionals at the Pro-Am tournament at Star Zone in Gwinnett County, GA. Your cues just kept being mentioned as one of the greatest custom cues made today. Several of the pros claimed to own one of your cues and this made me a believer that they have to be the best. I am currently playing somewhere every night of the week and in a tournament at The Pool Room in Marietta, GA on Sunday afternoon. I am a member of the APA and soon to be a member of the UPA, TAP and BCA if my time off allows.

I do not desire to be a pool hustler but to be a tournament player. I am about to start instruction under the excellent tutelage of Okinawa Slim. The reason for my writing you today is to make you an offer. I will endorse your cues in exchange for a cue. This does not sound like much of a deal for you today but in the next 10 years it could possibly be one of the best decisions you have ever made. It would be a shame for you to see me at the Union Plaza in Las Vegas in a tournament playing with someone else's cue. It would also be a shame for me to have to take second best. I plan
to be the best and am willing to put in as much time as necessary to make this dream of mine come true. Your consideration in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,

Xxxx Xxxxxxx

Paul_Mon
04-13-2004, 10:58 AM
JER,
I don't think this a fair comparision. With the exception of Saturn we all negotiate pricing on new cars. Even Saturn has some leeway if you're making a trade-in. Retailers are constantly running sales on merchandise and the consumers wait for these sales. At a venue like the recent Expo at Valley Forge many custom makers were willing to bargain. The situation you described was different. If you and I agree on a price then that is what should be paid.

Paul Mon~~~~~likes to get a bargain


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> Since you didn't see fit to fill out the "profile", for this site, I can't tell anything about you. How old are you, do you work or what kind of work you do? I can tell you this, IF you do work, you probably want to get your FULL pay on pay day. NOT 1/2 or 3/4 of your pay ,but ALL OF IT. Why would you expect a cue maker, to get less than he deserves for his work? When you go to a bar do you try to offer the bartender a dollar less, than the asking price for a beer? Do you say to the gas station attendent "$2 a gasolone is too much for gas, I'll give you $1.50?" There are a lot of Chineese Qs out there, loaded with DECALS, that look like an expensive Q, buy one of those...JER <hr /></blockquote>

woody_968
04-13-2004, 11:18 AM
Well I didnt read through all the posts, but here is my take on the subject. If you think what the cuemaker is asking is too much, you need to find a different cuemaker.

If I were going to have one made just for me I know who I would use. I know this because I have been to his shop and spent several hours out there with him "talking shop". I have a couple of the cues he has built and love the way they hit. I know if I order a cue from him, and he has it 3/4 the way done and makes a mistake he will scrap it and start all over, not just try to pretty up the mistake and make it acceptable. For this type of service I am willing to pay what he feels is a reasonable price for what I would want. If you dont think the builder your are considering is worth 1600 versus 1400 then I think you should reconsider having him build one at all.

Of course this is just my opinion, take it for what its worth.

Voodoo Daddy
04-13-2004, 11:19 AM
In real life if Surf-n-Turf is $28 and Lobster is $19, you dont haggle with the owner for a middle...or do ya /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif? Comic books, trading cards and other collectables are subject to what the person is WILLING to spend and barter is somewhat incouraged. BUT something handcrafted like a pool cue normally does not come with a haggle-cushion in its price. If the maker/creator wants to offer a discount, thats another story. I've sold hundreds of cues so I think I have a lil knowledge on the matter.

Voodoo~~~not well missed but well informed

Popcorn
04-13-2004, 11:21 AM
This is mostly a moot point and the same kind of things exist in most every business. Cue makers are big boys and have little problem dealing with it. It is never a good policy to tell a customer your problems or over explain. A simple yes or no is all that is needed. You get letters all the time from promoters asking for free cues, just say no I am sorry I don't do that.

Cueless Joey
04-13-2004, 11:27 AM
We have two cuemakers here who discount their own cues. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
One, jacks up his prices really high then gives everyone a great deal. So, they all end up on Fleabay.

Anonamus
04-13-2004, 11:47 AM
Artist who work with canvas and clay will negotiate for their work. Craftsman, like cabinet makers, who build to your specifications will negotiate for their work as well. Cue makers (who I'm not sure are artist or craftsman, probably both) are disgusted if you don't pay their asking price and even a bonus according to some of the comments posted so far.

I think years back before cue collecting became so popular you could negotiate with a cue maker, but now they have so much business they don't need to. Now they usually have a standard rate for a cue and then have a flat rate for each inlay and upgraded materials.

BTW Fish, I don't know how your simple question of whether you could negotiate or not got so turned around. Seemed like a reasonable question to me.

BLACKHEART's response reminded me of the Seinfeld character, "the soup nazi". No soup for you Fish.

almer
04-13-2004, 11:50 AM
Joey there is a Canadian cuemaker making cues in Calgary who learned his craft in California.I wondered if you knew him or who he learned from?There are some very good cuemakers here and with the US dollar worth $1.35 there are some very good deals.$1000.00 US buys a lot of cue.

Cueless Joey
04-13-2004, 12:01 PM
Who Zak?
There are several very good cuemakers here of course.
Ned Morris, Eddie Prewitt and Kerry Zylr are 3 who aren't huge names but are doing really well and have a good following.
Of course, there are legends like Tad and Gina/Ernie G. too.
This is just SoCal.

Chris Cass
04-13-2004, 01:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vicki:</font><hr> All the friends who think their work should be pushed to the front of the line. <hr /></blockquote>

Vicki,

When I odered my S.W. from Jerry him Laurie and David were on the phone 45 mins long distance when I designed my cue. He was just taking over the business from David. David an artist for sure is who I let design my thoughts into reality. The cue I came up with at that time would have been around $8000. In 1989 that was something. So, I was glad to let David design the cue.

Jerry at the time was working out of his garage. The waiting list was only 18 mths. Not a whole lot of people working this garage. Anyway, I do believe in having an "A" list, but then again, I'm old school. I believe you should take care of those who have been there for you from beginning to end. Not suggesting holding back orders, just putting in some extra time for family.

I guess it all meant nothing to Laurie. I'm not bothered by it now. I just won't buy another nor will I keep mine. I will also not promote the cue either. My cue has definitely grown in price and I will get good money for it but to me. Money don't mean squat.

Regards,

C.C.~~no doubt Mika has brought his cues to light as of late. I have seen some good work of his too so, good luck in your stance dealing with who's who.
I understand and agree with everything in your post but this statement.

BLACKHEART
04-13-2004, 01:40 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifVicki, you have described MY situation exactly. It's the accumulative amount of this crap, that loads up on you &amp; then finally explodes, like I did to poor Fish. I recently got a letter &amp; then a follow up phone call from a nice old gentleman from Mississippi. He runs a boys club there for poor black kids, in his neighborhood. He wanted me to donate 4-6 Qs &amp; several boxes of tips &amp; ferrules to his boys club. I sent him a very polite letter saying, that I only made Qs part time &amp; that at this time I could not afford to make such a commitment. A week or so later I got a phone call from this guy, telling me how selfish I was &amp; that with all that I had, I should be ashamed of myself for not giving him what he wanted. I ended the conversation right there. I've had several players ask me for a couple of Qs &amp; entry money for the US Open. And these weren't even Good players. Your post is SO on the money...JER
P.S. e-mail me your boyfriend's name. I think we have a lot in common.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-13-2004, 02:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> ...He wanted me to donate 4-6 Qs &amp; several boxes of tips &amp; ferrules to his boys club....<hr /></blockquote>

JER,

Aside from everything else, the thought of those nice cues getting banged up in a boys club would be enough to nix that deal /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally~~banged up a lot of cues at the YMCA

datplayer
04-13-2004, 02:36 PM
I agree with you. I'm just sick of hearing about how "such and such's" cues will be worth $25,000 one day. It's a cheap selling ploy that is wearing thin. Unless you have an orginal Balabuska or Paradise, most of these custom cues do not become collectible. I had a guy the other day trying to sell me a Meucci HOF-2, saying that it is a custom cue and will be worth thousands one day. I almost had a hernia trying not to laugh at him.

As far as good cues having more of a resell value than computers or cars, it's because new, more advance cues don't come out every year like computers and cars. Unless someone discovers an amazing new type of cue or upgrade (Predator fans- stand up!) that can guarantees more racks run, a cue is a cue. It's made of wood, it's straight, that's about it. Just ask Efren and his $13 cue.

woody_968
04-13-2004, 03:06 PM
Jer, I couldnt believe that someone would have the balls to call you and tell you that your selfish for not donating custom made cues, that makes me sick. But the more I thought about it I realised this is just a perfect example of people not knowing or understanding what goes into a custom made cue. Im sure (I hope) he has no idea of the time, work, and expense of building even a low end cue. If you felt that you should have given him some cues the best thing to do would be go to Wal-mart and buy some $10 cues to give to them, but then he would have complained about the cheap cues /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Personally after spending some time with Madison Bob I find it much harder to understand how a good cue builder can afford to make a cue that sells for less than $250. I gained alot of respect for those that truely build custom cues.

SpiderMan
04-13-2004, 03:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifVicki, you have described MY situation exactly. It's the accumulative amount of this crap, that loads up on you &amp; then finally explodes, like I did to poor Fish. I recently got a letter &amp; then a follow up phone call from a nice old gentleman from Mississippi. He runs a boys club there for poor black kids, in his neighborhood. He wanted me to donate 4-6 Qs &amp; several boxes of tips &amp; ferrules to his boys club. I sent him a very polite letter saying, that I only made Qs part time &amp; that at this time I could not afford to make such a commitment. A week or so later I got a phone call from this guy, telling me how selfish I was &amp; that with all that I had, I should be ashamed of myself for not giving him what he wanted. I ended the conversation right there. I've had several players ask me for a couple of Qs &amp; entry money for the US Open. And these weren't even Good players. Your post is SO on the money...JER
P.S. e-mail me your boyfriend's name. I think we have a lot in common. <hr /></blockquote>

JER: Well sir, perhaps you should contact Bob Meucci, he's right over in your neck-o-the-woods.

NICE OLD GENT: Been there, done that. We don't have A/C around these parts, so in the summer all those Meuccis are propping the windows open here at the boy's club and the kids have to play with house cues.

SpiderMan

Jimmy B
04-13-2004, 03:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> This jerk,(who asked for a hurry-up job, &amp; makes $80,000+ on his job, has the balls to say he thinks it's too much &amp; offers me $75. I SNAPPED IT OVER MY KNEE &amp; ASKED HIM TO LEAVE &amp; NOT COME BACK. .JER <hr /></blockquote>

Not for nothing JER but if you think this much of your work how do you expect the consumers to think they are worth the price? I mean you go on and on telling us how much work went into it then you finish by telling us you snapped it over your knee. You should have said 100 is our agreed apon price, if he chooses not to pay you sell to the next guy who will. the guy would have paid it. As far as the original question goes the guy should bring his cue to a show like VF and show it around with his budget, he may just get someone to make it. I see no problem in making a lower offer, a cue is like art and there is always room to move if the cuemaker sees fit. But this technique will not work on guys who already have enough work backed up, so you may not get to pick and choose who makes it. I'd say it doesn't hurt to ask.

JB

Popcorn
04-13-2004, 03:45 PM
quote
"As far as good cues having more of a resell value than computers or cars, it's because new, more advance cues don't come out every year like computers and cars. Unless someone discovers an amazing new type of cue or upgrade (Predator fans- stand up!) that can guarantees more racks run, a cue is a cue. It's made of wood, it's straight, that's about it. Just ask Efren and his $13 cue."

That's obvious, that is why I didn't address it in my post when I used those examples, I could not imagine someone would even say it. That fact though in no way changes my point, that a cue may be one of the best investments you own as far as holding it's value. It is hard to believe you are complaining about the Scruggs you had the use of for who knows how long, that cost you almost nothing, when you decided to turn it back into cash. I wish I could do that with everything I bought.

Here are a couple of cues I bought that held their value. I paid $100. for one and $225. for the other
http://www.popcorn23.mypicgallery.com/?/machineguy/bushka_large.jpg

almer
04-13-2004, 04:02 PM
Joey,the cuemakers name is Bernie Mickleson,he already has quite a good following around Calgary.He has sold alot of cues for $1000.00 to$2000.00 which is good for a new cuemaker.I just wondered if you had heard of him as he learned his trade in California.Edwin Montel who you might have seen useshis cues.

Rod
04-13-2004, 04:21 PM
Man you sure have gotten a lot of heat for a simple question. I mean how would you know if you didn't ask? In this case i don't think i would ask but depending on the situation, what is the harm. I mean if it is good reasonable offer. A true business man will tell you, one way or the other. As I see it nothing is carved in stone. I've had to deal with this a lot in automotive, and that's not selling stuff, custom work. It just took a simple reply but usually the answer was no.

Rod

Cueless Joey
04-13-2004, 04:26 PM
Wow! I better move there. lol
He probably learned from Bert Schrager or Ned Morris.

Jimmy B
04-13-2004, 04:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hey Fish,

One day last yr I called Laurie and told her that my cue was getting to collectable to shoot with and needed another. Well, Laurie told me I, Me had to wait 7 yrs for another. I was crushed. I was there for her when Jerry passed and have been ordering shafts and my cue let alone these shafts are expensive but even my constant support meant nothing. So, I quit.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Chris, I don't see your point here, I mean first of all Laurie didn't ask or need you to push the cues. You did so because you really believed in them, I don't see where she owes you anything. I also push SW cues and have done a few favors for Laurie, I do so because I also think the cues are great. She needed a favor once and called me I helped out and she said "I owe ya one" I said how bout you move me up on the list a few years, she said "can't do it". I wasn't mad I now have more respect because to me it's unethical to do this. I don't like to hear stories about cuemakers bumping people on the list just because they are friends or because they spend more money. If this were the case the guy who wanted the plain jane cues would never see them. To me it takes guts to run things the right way and IMO that's what she's doing. I happen to think Laurie is a great person and very ethical. Now sure you could be mad, and you don't have to push her cues, but you shoudn't be mad. On the other hand Barry did something above and beyond and he did so not looking for any good press for it. I think you should go out of your way to push him and his cues, he's also a great guy and I think he is incredibiley hansome. If I were a young hot chick I'd go for a guy who looked like him. Along the same lines I'm kinda mad at Barry because maybe the cue he should be making for me got pushed back to make yours. if he wasn't so damned cute I'd be pissed at him.

JB

datplayer
04-13-2004, 04:42 PM
Popcorn, I am not complaining at all, that's why I said I was thrilled I received almost all of my money back. What I am refering to is the whole concept of cues going up in value, which is misleading to buyers. Again, it is rare for someone to buy a $1800 cue in '95 and get back $1600 or $1500 today. My example with the Scruggs has been an exception. I bought a McDaniel back in 99 for $900 and was only able to get $570 for it back in December. Often, when I browse cues on Ebay, sellers are lucky if they get back %65 of their original price, especially on high end custom cues. This is more common than getting back even money or making a profit.

Barbara
04-13-2004, 05:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr>Now sure you could be mad, and you don't have to push her cues, but you shoudn't be mad. On the other hand Barry did something above and beyond and he did so not looking for any good press for it. I think you should go out of your way to push him and his cues, he's also a great guy and I think he is incredibiley hansome. If I were a young hot chick I'd go for a guy who looked like him. Along the same lines I'm kinda mad at Barry because maybe the cue he should be making for me got pushed back to make yours. if he wasn't so damned cute I'd be pissed at him.

JB <hr /></blockquote>

Jimbo,

Barry was originally making that cue for himself before a selfless act of kindness changed its direction. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Barbara

Cueless Joey
04-13-2004, 05:23 PM
I called Barry last week.
I demanded an inlayed full-splice.
He said' I'd be getting it before Christmas as he is using a blank his father made eons ago.
2 old-growth shafts too.
He said he will throw away his waiting list for me.
Then I woke up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Barbara
04-13-2004, 05:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> I called Barry last week.
I demanded an inlayed full-splice.
He said' I'd be getting it before Christmas as he is using a blank his father made eons ago.
2 old-growth shafts too.
He said he will throw away his waiting list for me.
Then I woke up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I hate that waking up part!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Barbara

Vicki
04-13-2004, 06:22 PM
Chris Cass you know you are golden. You are good in my book no matter what forever. All you've been through and all you've meant to everyone here... YOUR work would be pushed to the front. There are friends who have done nothing but break balls who think they are entitled. That is about whom I was speaking.

Vicki

Vicki
04-13-2004, 06:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> This jerk,(who asked for a hurry-up job, &amp; makes $80,000+ on his job, has the balls to say he thinks it's too much &amp; offers me $75. I SNAPPED IT OVER MY KNEE &amp; ASKED HIM TO LEAVE &amp; NOT COME BACK. .JER <hr /></blockquote>

Not for nothing JER but if you think this much of your work how do you expect the consumers to think they are worth the price? I mean you go on and on telling us how much work went into it then you finish by telling us you snapped it over your knee. You should have said 100 is our agreed apon price, if he chooses not to pay you sell to the next guy who will. the guy would have paid it.
JB <hr /></blockquote>

No guarantee that Jerry was making a shaft for one of HIS cues. It is very likely that he was making a shaft for some other cuemakers cue and had to make custom ring work to match the cue and probably it would not just screw onto any old cue but the one it was made for.

If the guy doesn't buy it it's firewood.

Vicki

Sid_Vicious
04-13-2004, 07:44 PM
Damn Son, you kicked up some dust over this one! My slant is fairly simple, this builder is someone(not all mind you) with an ego over his product, and to bargain for that product requires some creative bargaining. Otherwise your prize winning cue might have less than his best when finished. I personally would be real hesitant to barter in the least, but I would try and see of variants or additions to one of the more standard cues from the guy could be had for a minimal addition to the cost, BUT I'd kiss butt all at the same time. Strangely enough you will have to actually form a relationship with a builder to become a "preferred" customer, and that does not happen by jew'n down on an asked for price.

Thanks for the entertainment, enjoyed the fever from this bunch ;-) sid

Vagabond
04-13-2004, 07:51 PM
Howdy folks,
Fish just asked a Question about some tradition of bargaining.One could have replied saying that it is not a tradition to bargain.But some of the responses were very angry and hostile and there is no need for that.Fish asked a simple question,that is all.Peace
Vagabond

Cheap9Ball
04-13-2004, 08:19 PM
Yeah, it seems like there is a lot of hostility toward Fish, kind of a "how dare you" attitude. Don't get me wrong, I HATE haggling, but you can't blame the guy for asking. If the question of firm price or not is asked tactfully, and answered tactfully, then both people can be happy and go on with business. No harm done and no insult to anyone's craft. I would like to think if any of the cuemakers here were asked about this from a prospective customer (repeat, tactfully), that they could deal with them politely. In my line of work people ask for discounts fairly regularly, but if I politely stick to my price, most people will still make the purchase.

Barbara
04-13-2004, 10:31 PM
Dude,

You'll have to just accept the fact that some cuemakers won't inlay plastic decals of Homer Simpson and family or Beavis and Butthead characters.

Get over it.

Barbara

Chris Cass
04-13-2004, 11:27 PM
Hey Jimbo,

First off I didn't say Barry made one for me. I said, he gave me his personal cue. His cue, the one he made for himself at his specs. With his fathers favorite color points. I do push his cues. I've always pushed his cues.

I'm not mad at Laurie. When I said crushed I meant my feelings. I thought after knowing and supporting Jerrys cues meant something. I even stated I can't complain for the money the cue goes for now. Money isn't an issue for me. I happen to like laurie and called the day later after Jerrys unfortunate demise. I called a few times matter of fact. I also have ordered about 5 extra shafts besides the two originals. I waited 6 mths for one when told 3 mths. I've paid extra for shipping and went to Vegas to get them and said nothing of the overcharge. I was just disapointed.

As far as the bumping up the list goes. I do believe in favoritism to an extent. I didn't say put someone before the daily routine but over the course of time do some extra, I would. Lauie doesn't owe me anything. When you buy a cue or when I do that's custom one of a kind I expect to have a lifetime relationship with the cuemaker. I expect to promote the cue I shoot with and without expecting anything in return but I do expect to not be treated like the average Joe off the street looking to make money off the cue, just for the sake of a buck. Like buying a Boti just to sell it the next day. Barry knew I might not have 10 yrs left in my life and gave me his cue. He didn't want any special thanks but said it was from the board to help and give me a reason to get back to playing the game I love. I cried when I got that cue. Ask Voodoo.

The more I think about it the more I feel I should give it back to him. I don't deserve to have it and he doesn't need to give me such a personal gift from this board.

Regards,

C.C.

Chris Cass
04-14-2004, 12:22 AM
Oh Vicki,

I would expect special favors just because of what I've been through. I wouldn't enjoy hurting anyone. I'm sorry if I came off bad. I have so much respect for cuemakers and know what they do is countless hrs of perfecting their skills to bring joy into someones life. It's not about money for them either. The ones out for the money are the ones that put out these budwiezer cues and such.

What your boyfriend and many other real cuemakers do is for the love of their work. It shows in the end. These expensive cues are for a certain type person that understands the real value of a cue and most value the relationship and believe in the cuemaker. There are some that just sell for profit but even they appreciate something about the cues.

I would never expect any cuemaker to bump me up the chain. I was 15 yrs old with fake ID's when I had a chance to order a Boti. I thought 7 yrs is along time to wait and I didn't have 2 nickels to rub togather when Gus' list was so long then.

When I was older and I was happy just playing and didn't care what I shot with. When I was in school (DeVry) I ordered my S.W. It was my first really good cue. The second one I actually paid for. I loved the cue and always promoted it. I made friends with Jerry and Laurie Franklin and when I make a friend, it's for life.

I felt so bad for Laurie when Jerry passed. I asked my wife if we could go out there to Las Vegas to see her. We couldn't afford it with the baby and all. I called every so often but she was always very busy. It helps to stay busy when things like that happen. I don't want anyone to think I don't like her but now it's all about money for her, as far as I get the impression.

Your a sweetheart Vicki and I understand how frustrating working with the public goes for your special friend. I think it makes you appreciate those who really care about the person making the cue rather than their own agenda.

I know this is a little too much but I have a resent story that proves my point too. I have a freiend that plays very well. He's not a real close friend but I relate to him and have known him for yrs. I've shot with his step dad Mark W. for a long time. I used to come down from Chicago to play some with him.

Anyway, he does some cue repair(not much) and he sells shafts and cues for some cuemakers. Andy Gilbert was one and now he's doing sales for Mike Durbin. Well, another friend called him and wanted him to bring back 2 shafts for him while he was seeing Mike.

Just then, he drove into town and stated having chest pain and shooting pains down his arms. He was rushed to the hospital and in the emergency room the guy calls him asking about the shafts. He's like Dude, I told you I'm having a damm heart attack. The next day the guy calls the house leaving 10 messages on the guys answering machine about these stupid shafts. Finally, the guy calls again and gets my friend and doesn't ask anything about how he is but does he have the shafts. My friend was stunned to say the least and told him off and got excited.

I seen him a week later and he said to me. Thanks Chris for thinking of me when you called and talked to my wife. You cared about me and then he told me the story. What are these people thinking? When I talk about old school. I'm talking about respect and compassion for someone. Now days the players are out for themselves and it's all about money and getting ahead. I go to many tourneys and see a lot of cuemakers and people like JJustis. I make a point to stop and say hi to Jack and others everytime. I care about them. Heck, I brought Pat Diveney so much coffee that he made a B-line for the john. LOL Everybody wants something for nothing. Yrs ago it wasn't like that. People would go up to Richard Black just to meet him. They could even think about owning one of his cues. Even today, I feel it's tough standing next to Barry. My jaw wants to drop. LOL

Your friend,

C.C.~~Vicki' boyfriend is very lucky to have her.

Ralph S.
04-14-2004, 06:19 PM
Fish, you have jumped Blackheart unfairly with some of your responses. Let me tell you a bit about Jerry and how he operates.

I placed an order with Jerry awhile back. Maybe a year or so ago roughly. While the cue was under construction, Jerry fell ill. Heart trouble if I rember correctly. Any how he didnt do any work on any cues, and understandably so. His health is more important.

About the the time he was getting back around to the cues, I started having many troubles with my father. At that time, Jerry went and put in some larger inlays at his own wanting and doing for my being patient during his recooperation time. He didn't know that my father was terminally ill, and I had to leave my job in October, to care for him.

Jerry has held this cue back and not sold it from underneath of me. The original price is still agreed upon. He said he will hold the cue until my situation becomes better.

The point I am attempting to make, is the that you hurled some personal remarks that was way out of line. Jerry is a class act. Maybe you should just a have a casual conversation with someone, before you bash them. You might find that they really are a good person and could work with you like Jerry has worked with me.

Jimmy B
04-15-2004, 12:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hey Jimbo,

I'm not mad at Laurie. When I said crushed I meant my feelings. I was just disapointed.

As far as the bumping up the list goes. I do believe in favoritism to an extent. When you buy a cue or when I do that's custom one of a kind I expect to have a lifetime relationship with the cuemaker.

<hr /></blockquote>

I understood what you meant, and I agree to an extent, but you sounded very mad. My point was don't be mad it's her way of doing business, she is very ethical, and although like you I wish it weren't the case I am glad it's the same for everyone. I just don't think being mad or holding a grudge is a good way to look at something good that a person does. I have personal relationships with many cue makers and I know some that will bump me on the list if I call, but I can't help remember the times when I was on the wrong end of that deal and I didn't like it so much. Ethics and morals are rare and even more rare in this business, I'm still proud that Laurie still has them even when it hurts me sometimes.

JB

highsea
04-15-2004, 05:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Who Zak?.... <hr /></blockquote>
That would be Scott Zachow, from Nanaimo, B.C..
Very nice cues...
www.zaccues.com (http://www.zaccues.com)

-CM~~Digs his Zac...

ted harris
04-17-2004, 03:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TheFish:</font><hr>How many websites of cuemakers do you see with a fixed priced list. There is Ted Harris...The prices are so arbitrary...I am sure soime cue makers have price lists that we cannot see which are fixed, but I am also sure that some don't. I think that this isn't exactly a fair operation for both sides of the party.

BUT..at the same time..every one of my customers can view the price list on line and i have a specific policy to never bargain because i would never want any customer to wonder how much his/hew fellow customer is paying.

Now, just a short economics note. A perfect market for a supplier is to supply items at variable prices for variable customers. Its illegal in the US, thats why prices have to be listed in the supermarkmet items. Obviously, cues are different, because they are custom, but at the same time, thye operate in a situation where they have the luxury to take advantage of the situation, where they can charge one potential customer 2000 for one cue, and another customer 5000 for a NEARLY exact same cue - I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY DO THAT. but without price lists open to the general public, noone knows whats going on. <hr /></blockquote>
I feel that I have travelled far enough and spent enough time at tournaments throughout America that almost all poolplayers or someone they know has had contact with me. Hence, cue repair pricing is posted on my website, as cue repair is fairly self explanatory and simple to understand.

Cuemaking and purchasing a cue is, on the other hand, an entirely different story. It is true, I have no cue pricing on my website. I enjoy the internet and think it is a wonderful tool. However, I don't ever want the internet to take away the personal interaction between you and me. I prefer to speak to you personally regarding pricing and other details about the construction, artistic design, functionality and performance of what may someday be your cue. I want you to get all the information you need to make an educated decision. In my mind, having that philosophy is part of the reason why you, a potential customer would be looking to get one of my cues in the first place. My philosophy is what makes me somewhat unique. I hope this helps you to at least understand me and my website.

ted harris
04-17-2004, 04:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vicki:</font><hr> It's why I feel the need to defend my cuemaker...<hr /></blockquote>
Shouldn't that be cuemakers...plural!

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vicki:</font><hr>Here is a real letter received by my boyfriend... How much of this could you take everyday? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I wonder how many other cuemakers he sent this to?
__________________________________________________ ________
&lt;snippage&gt;I do not desire to be a pool hustler but to be a tournament player. I am about to start instruction under the excellent tutelage of Okinawa Slim. <hr /></blockquote>
Okinawa Slim...hahahahhehehehehehahahahaha!
I got this quite a while back too! Too funny!

Harold Acosta
04-17-2004, 02:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TheFish:</font><hr> .... But I got thes egreat cue in mind, and its gonna cost me close to 1800 at the makers asking price, i just wanna pay 1600, is that too unreasonable?
<hr /></blockquote>

If you already have your mind set on this particular cuemaker, that means you have researched the others in your area and have decided that this one has the best to offer. If you have really done your homework, you should know by now that the cue is worth the asking price. Why then would you want to bargain at this stage? What you should do is sit down with the cuemaker and let him know what you want for the $1800 asking price. If you dont want the $1800 cue, ask him what he can do for $1600. If you still don't know what you want for $1600, then you should buy a production cue.

<font color="blue">Billiards: A passionate sport for the mind and soul!</font color>
http://www.thebilliardstour.com/images/starscrash.gif

BlindPlayer
04-05-2005, 05:09 PM
Wow - this question has sparked an incredible amount of response.

Is anyone at the pool hall playing or practicing? Just kidding - don't attack me please.

I think it would help if someone would know of a website this young man can tap into that explains the process needed to make a custom cue and that would settle the issue.

Unless things have changed I "think" that when they are making the shaft, for instance, it is NOT turned on the lathe all at once. They shave and little they cure the wood for several days, then shave a little more, then cure it some more, then shave and cure until it's at the desire thickness and taper.

I reviewed years ago the process when I was considering being a craftsman of cues. The more I learned the more I realized that it is so labor intensive that they deserve the price they ask.

Remember, the price set is not likely arbitrary. Several aspects of that particular cue design are factored in - not just time invested.

FWIW

BlindPlayer
04-05-2005, 05:15 PM
To expand.

Time, materials, skill level required, and special circumstances (there's always special circumstances).

Fred Agnir
04-05-2005, 06:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BlindPlayer:</font><hr> Wow - this question has sparked an incredible amount of response.

Is anyone at the pool hall playing or practicing? Just kidding - don't attack me please.

I think it would help if someone would know of a website this young man can tap into that explains the process needed to make a custom cue and that would settle the issue.<hr /></blockquote> Isn't this thread a year old???

Fred

Plummerbutt
04-05-2005, 10:13 PM
I ordered my first custom about a month ago. I went to the makers shop and looked at a bunch of his q's. He explained to me the differences in each. I liked that. My intended one hour visit turned into 4 1/2 hrs. But I'm getting the Q I want and he gets to make a Q that he WANTS to make. The only negotiating was what I wanted on it. I had many, many choices! I told him this, "I want a Q that HITS great and LOOKS great, but it also has to be a Q that you will be proud of, something that you WANT to make". I made sure that what I chose, color and design, would be something that he would be proud to put his name on. We both whole heartedly agreed on the selected Q. Now the tough part.., waiting the 10-12 months for it to be done. ( by the way, $720.00 for this Q)

Jimmy B
04-06-2005, 01:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> Isn't this thread a year old???

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Party pooper!

JB

lord_shar
04-06-2005, 01:56 PM
I just placed an order with Andy Gilbert for my dream cue (4high/4low 8-pointer Szamboti style with LOTS of scrimmed ivory inlays + piloted SS joint). I e-mailed multiple cue makers, but he was the only one who replied to my quote-request. To make a long story short, his price quote was well below what I expected to pay for work of his caliber, so I gladly accepted. Now comes a 4-month eternity before I see the results /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

SpiderMan
04-06-2005, 02:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote BlindPlayer:</font><hr> Wow - this question has sparked an incredible amount of response.

Is anyone at the pool hall playing or practicing? Just kidding - don't attack me please.

I think it would help if someone would know of a website this young man can tap into that explains the process needed to make a custom cue and that would settle the issue.<hr /></blockquote> Isn't this thread a year old???

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Blindplayer is just discovering some of the ancient threads.

SpiderMan

griffith_d
04-11-2005, 08:25 PM
Ok,....I know I have been gone awhile, but I have to jump in with both feet on this one...FishHead...you should apologize to JER for this if you have not already(too many posts and I apologize if you have), but JER IS a first class person, he makes great cues (of course I have one) and if you try and get cheap over a cue it only makes you look bad, did I mention cheap. Jerry did have health problems when he was making mine and it took a couple of months longer, but the class person he is he even threw in some freebees.

When I got a Lambros cue and the agreed upon price went up by a little, I gladly paid it. When you deal with artists you are not the creator and should feel glad that you are even getting a cue from them.

So, if you don't want to pay the price...by a Meucci.

Griff

stroker
04-12-2005, 09:36 AM
While I know where you are coming from with your comments, you owe this man an apoligy.He asked an honest question and you bit his head off. If your answer is "No" you should have just said that.
I played in a tournament last week and reached the winners finals and my opponent was a known prick. Well I won the flip and broke &amp; ran. Instead of respecting my success, he goes back to his table and loudly blames me for his demise, upsetting the whole mood of the players. I must say that he destroyed my play the rest of the night. It shouldn't have, but I didn't bite the head off the next person that asked me to play.
You have a right to feel the way you do, but your anger doesn't need to be taken out on an innocent person. Also, your in business for yourself and your words and actions are a direct reflection on your success.

Chill,
Tony "Molassas"

Popcorn
04-12-2005, 09:51 AM
I would say he is pretty much chilled out by now.

Rich R.
04-12-2005, 10:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I would say he is pretty much chilled out by now. <hr /></blockquote>
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Stroker, just to explain what Popcorn implied, you are commenting on something that Blackheart posted a year ago. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
04-12-2005, 10:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Stroker, just to explain what Popcorn implied, you are commenting on something that Blackheart posted a year ago. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif <hr /></blockquote>

And besides that he would not care anyway. After all he has a black heart /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif