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sevenball
04-14-2004, 10:01 AM
im looking to improve my game and shopping for an instructor what should i look for? what should they provide? and what is the going rate for an instructor? please see my post on "i want to change my stroke for more info"

Wally_in_Cincy
04-14-2004, 10:05 AM
what's your location?

sevenball
04-14-2004, 10:39 AM
new hampshire

pooltchr
04-14-2004, 11:12 AM
go to www.bca-pool.com/play (http://www.bca-pool.com/play) and look at the list of active instructors. The BCA instructor program requires all instructors to go through a training program and instructors are evaluated by other instructors in order to advance through the ranks.

Talk to the instructor before you decide to work with him or her. Number one, you should be comfortable with them. If an instructor asks you what you want to get out of the lessons, that's a good thing. One who tells you what they are going to teach you may not meet your needs. Ask for references from former students. Find out how long they have been teaching. Find someone that is flexible to teach the way you need to learn. Do you better one-on-one or in a group setting? Can/will this instructor work in your comfort zone? Can you schedule lessons at your own pace? There is a lot in information in the full program the BCA instructors teach. Some of my students have done it all in one weekend, others do a few hours a month so they can absorb each lesson before moving on to the next.

The main thing is find one who will work with you, and who you think you will be able to work with.

Good Luck!

Doctor_D
04-14-2004, 12:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sevenball:</font><hr> im looking to improve my game and shopping for an instructor what should i look for? what should they provide? and what is the going rate for an instructor? please see my post on "i want to change my stroke for more info" <hr /></blockquote>

Give Ken a call, he is a BCA Instructor.

Institute of Billiards Sciences
Ken Tewksbury - BCA Master Instructor
603-225-8298
New Hampshire
cueball@billiardinstructor.org
www.billiardinstructor.org (http://www.billiardinstructor.org)

Dr. D.

ceebee
04-14-2004, 12:11 PM
as an Instructor, I offer my students several formats for learning. I have over 100 Videos &amp; 50 of the best Instructional Books. I generally send the Student home with HOMEWORK to practice. When I'm explaining a technique or a shot, I have plenty of corroberating material to show the student for reference. I want the student to realize that it's not just my opinion that I'm passing on.

I also employ DVD Recorder or a VHS Recorder. I ask the student if he's got a way to play a VCR or DVD at home, to replay the lesson material over &amp; over. When the Student can witness his actions &amp; performance, the affirmations start to build a strong mental appraoch &amp; good physical fundamentals. I employ lots of training aids &amp; tools that others may have never seen or used.

Hope this helps you players that are looking for good instructors. Like an earlier post, the BCA Webpage has a list of Certified Instructors

Chris Cass
04-14-2004, 01:27 PM
The real question is, what do you want out of the game? The instructor means nothing without the willingness of the student to apply him or herself and to accept what the instructor has to offer. There is no magic pill and becoming a champion is your job.

Who ever the instructor is, make sure you understand everything that is shown. I've heard plenty of good things about Ken T. You should expect a video taping and expect to pay average about $30. an hr. This might sound expensive but in reality it's not. There are many ways to recoop this investment and it is an investment, in yourself. Try to buy a package that will be taught over a 6mth period. This is good so that it'll give you time to let all the information sink in. You'll also need the time to apply it during practice time. IMHO

Good Luck,

C.C.

woody_968
04-14-2004, 01:53 PM
I must agree with CC on this one, first question is what do you want from the instruction. Then I would recommend someone that is BCA certified, but keep in mind there are good instructors out there that arent so dont be too stuck on this one.

If you would be so lucky to have Scott Lee come through your neck of the woods I would HIGHLY recommend seeing him. It will cost a little more than most of the local but you will not be sorry you did. I cant wait for him to come back to Indiana /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pooltchr
04-14-2004, 02:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Doctor_D:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote sevenball:</font><hr> im looking to improve my game and shopping for an instructor what should i look for? what should they provide? and what is the going rate for an instructor? please see my post on "i want to change my stroke for more info" <hr /></blockquote>

I think this would be an excellent choice!

Give Ken a call, he is a BCA Instructor.

Institute of Billiards Sciences
Ken Tewksbury - BCA Master Instructor
603-225-8298
New Hampshire
cueball@billiardinstructor.org
www.billiardinstructor.org (http://www.billiardinstructor.org)

Dr. D.
<hr /></blockquote>

ryushen21
04-14-2004, 02:23 PM
I agree with Woody on this one. If Scott Lee happens to be in your enck of the woods at some point, his lessons are excellent. price is a little bit more than quoted here, but you will not be disappointed.

randyg
04-14-2004, 02:42 PM
Ken is a very good choice.

CUE-TECH Pool School has a three day school coming up on June 11-12-13 2004. It will be held once again in Hartford Ct......randyg

PastPrime
04-14-2004, 05:57 PM
Don't get caught up in the way most of the Instructors work. Every other sport has one-on-one teaching saying (abbreviated) hold it like this, it changes to this here, and it should end up here. They then watch you do the first portion and correct that, then watch the second portion and correct that, etc.,etc.. Pool Instructors show you what you should do then give you drills to practice 11 millions times and walk away. They say I'll be back in 6 months or whatever and you cannot learn the game or changes to it like that. You need a Teacher. Someone who will take the time to work on each aspect of the setup, alignment, feet, stroke etc. This cannot be done merely by doing drills. Some portions of your learning curve will take much more personal help than others and you will be much more successful with someone who will work with you as you need it. A good Teacher knows it is a long term committment and most of them understand the financial problems most of us face and I believe they will work with you on this aspect. This statement on Instrucions vs Teaching is of course arguable but I stand with it. Lot's of luck to you with your game.

Ralph S.
04-14-2004, 06:21 PM
Hey Steve, I tried that link the other night just to see who was on it and it didn't work. Has it worked as of today for anyone else?

randyg
04-15-2004, 06:12 AM
PastPrime: (Don't get caught up in the way most of the Instructors work.)

How can you group us together when you have never been to all of us?....randyg

DennyS
04-15-2004, 07:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr> PastPrime: (Don't get caught up in the way most of the Instructors work.)

How can you group us together when you have never been to all of us?....randyg <hr /></blockquote>
Great question Randy !

pooltchr
04-15-2004, 07:48 AM
I just tried it and it worked fine. Try going to www.bca-pool.com (http://www.bca-pool.com) and then select play then instruction then check the list of active instructors.

04-15-2004, 10:04 AM

SPetty
04-15-2004, 10:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> I don't think many of the CCBers will agree with me on this point, as most of them will recommend staying with one instructor only if possible. In my view this is being narrow minded.<hr /></blockquote>Hi whitewolf,

It's my recollection that Larry thought you should stay with one instructor, while most of the posters here agree that it's a good thing to get different instruction.

Scott Lee
04-15-2004, 03:28 PM
SPetty...You got dat right! LOL

Scott ~ CAN run three friggin' balls

#### leonard
04-15-2004, 04:02 PM
Just think you can get Butch Harmon for 2500 a half day. or Butch Leonard for one tenth of that.

If you have never played a instructor is the answer. I have never been able to show a fair player anything. Their reply is always I prefer playing the shot the other way.

One fellow I was teaching told a friend of my I was trying to sabotage his game. He said I didn't want him to get better than me. The friend said what the hell are you talking about. I have watch you play for weeks, you have never run 30 balls. When he was playing he ran 200 balls every day.####

sevenball
04-16-2004, 05:05 AM
hi scott
word is your the man to see. any chance youll be around new hampshire anytime in the near future?

DennyS
04-16-2004, 09:19 AM
What to look for in an Instructor?

1.Great Communicator-Example --&gt; To convey information about; make known; impart: To reveal clearly; manifest:
2.The Ability to have Patience --&gt; emphasizes calmness, self-control, and the willingness or ability to teach all levels
3. The ability to Video tape his students and the knowledge that is needed to point out what the student is doing right and wrong. Then offer suggestions to help improve the students game. Then sit down with them and present them with a lesson plan for their particular needs.
4. The ability of the Instructor not only to tell them what to do but also show them.
5. The Instructor should seek out new Information such as -&gt; Teaching techniques,Shot making and mental side of the game. Their is always something to learn and it may come fellow instructors or even a student.
6.I think it's important that the Instructor also have his students do homework. Example--&gt; Written work, drawings and doing their work assigned in class with a table or not. Along with that testing is needed to ensure that the student is absorbing what the instructor is teaching.
This is just a half a dozen of examples and I know there is more that can be included. Hope this helps!
Thank You ;
Denny Stewart

Scott Lee
04-16-2004, 12:25 PM
Sevenball...Thanks for the kind words. There are many fine instructors out there, of which I am just one. Unfortunately, I am home in MT for a little while, at least, having been on the road for the past three months. LOL You've been given Ken Tewksbury's name to contact. I would suggest giving him a call, especially since he is right in your "neighborhood"! If you'd like to hook up sometime when I AM in your neck of the woods, I'd be more than happy to work with you! You can email or PM me for more info.

Scott Lee

04-17-2004, 09:33 AM

pooltchr
04-19-2004, 06:36 AM
As an instructor myself, I would hardly recommend limiting your pool education to one instructor. Find one or two that you are comfortable working with primarily, but always look for opportunities to learn from others. Just make sure the things they are teaching are valid. I have spent time with several BCA instructors including Randyg, Scott, Doc Rogers, and others. Earlier this month, I had the chance to meet several other Master level instructors, and I'm sure I will be trying to get time with as many of them as I can. Everyone has something to offer, you just need to be able to recognize it when it is presented.
Steve

bluewolf
04-19-2004, 09:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> Hi whitewolf,

It's my recollection that Larry thought you should stay with one instructor, while most of the posters here agree that it's a good thing to get different instruction.
<hr /></blockquote>

This is sort of correct. This is how I interpreted what he means, although he is not here to defend himself.LOL. If a person is working with an instructor on a regular basis, frequently, it is best to work with that one until you have learned all you can from them or you just have to move onto someone else.

It can be confusing to jump from one to another too much, especially if the player is not advanced. For instance, in my lessons with Scott, and pool school with Randy, they complimented each other in what they taught and the methods. I was looking into taking lessons from this local guy who has many years of experience and has instructed some real good players. But, after talking to him, he would have wanted to remake my stroke, stance everything. Personally, if and when I need a tuneup on those things I would go back to the two instructors who taught me those things or someone using a similar method. Larry worked with me a lot on mental aspects, not stance etc, which did help me a lot with concentration.

I really believe that if I had been taking lessons from the guy that I talked to and THEN had gone to pool school, Randy would have had a bunch of bad habits to try to break, rather than getting a beginning pool player, who could be taught correctly in the beginning.

Being open minded is good, taking every thing that passes by 'hook, line and sinker', can result in changing too many things too often and not getting better, and even fall in the category of 'paralysis by analysis'. I think that I did some of that in the beginning, looking for the 'quick fix' until I wized up and realized that 'time takes time'.

It seems like a player has to be careful with the instruction they get, so the good stuff they already do will not get screwed up. LOL

JMO

Laura

catscradle
04-19-2004, 12:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sevenball:</font><hr> new hampshire <hr /></blockquote>

Depending upon your current level of play. Ken Tewksbury (sp?) in Concord may be a very good option. I think he would be worth a try at least.

griffith_d
04-19-2004, 06:45 PM
I have taken a lesson from Scott Lee and a few from a local BCA instructor and I have benefited from both. Both had different styles and focuses, but they both asked what I wanted out of the instruction.

We all seem to focus on making balls but you might think about learning how to "not make" balls(defense) and reading the table. That is an area that I sure a lot of players could use some work, including myself. It is almost like chess sometimes,..reading the table is very important and being able to see what the other player might see that you miss when it is an obvious shot or safety.

Scott Lee I would say would be the better instructor that I have used and would be a wise choice if you can entice him into your area.

Griff

JClark
04-20-2004, 06:44 AM
What a great post!!!! I am a BCA Advanced Instructor and I have personally taken lots of lessons, some good some bad but it was still up to me to take what I wanted and leave the rest. A lesson is basically a jumper cable to jump start your game. Som of us need more jump starts than others. It has never failed to amaze me that players go out and spend $200. to $3500. on a pool cue and don't spend $50. buks learning how to use it. An investment in good lessons is an investment in you for a life time, when the lesson is over you will have that knowledge forever, I will bet you don't have that cue that long. I have evan learned from my students who in some cases are beginners. If your realy want to get better at pool become a student of the game

JClark
Set-Pause-Finish Family

bluewolf
04-20-2004, 06:50 AM
I am just keeping my fingers crossed that I can make it to randy's pool school in CT in june. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The first time I went to his school, I had only been playing for about six weeks. While I learned a lot and it, along with that first lesson with scott got me off to a good start, I feel that I would learn a lot the second go round that I could not pick up the first time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Laura

Chopstick
04-20-2004, 09:52 AM
I took golf lessons for years so when I went shopping for a pool instructor I already had an idea of what to look for. Here's a couple tips that also apply to pool.

How do you get along with him? Their personality needs to be a type that you naturally get along with.

Are they similar to you physically? It helps if they are close to same build because their approach to the game is more likely to match your capabilities. A tall thin guy is going to have a hard time teaching a short fat guy how to swing a golf club. I think it applies to pool also.

Personally I am taking lessons from Grady Matthews and Buddy Hall. Their rates are in the $100 an hour range. Most guys are in the same range as golf pros but no way could you play with Jack Nicklous or Arnold Palmer for $100.
It's really great to hang out shoot pool with these guys and I would encourage anyone to go see them at least once. It's quite an experience.

pooltchr
04-20-2004, 11:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr> It helps if they are close to same build...Personally I am taking lessons from Grady Matthews and Buddy Hall.<hr /></blockquote>

Here are two guys who are about as far apart physically as you can get. Perhaps physical characteristics aren't all that important?????

I don't mean to give you a hard time...I think your choices show that knowledge and the ability to share it are much more important than physical stature.

Chopstick
04-20-2004, 12:02 PM
Both Grady and Buddy are close to my height and reach. Last Saturday Buddy was showing me the correct way to reach over the table for a ball, use the bridge, etc. I don't think that he would have been able to communicate how it should feel as well if he was 5'2".

Scott Lee
04-20-2004, 12:23 PM
Chopstick...I beg to differ with you. I travel the whole country teaching, and I have taught literally thousands of students over the years. They range in size, age, sex, ability...all over the place. I have successfully helped many people right here on this board who are in NO way close to my build. Communication skills and patience are what's important, not how tall or thin/heavy, etc. BTW, I am 5'7".

Scott Lee

Voodoo Daddy
04-20-2004, 01:10 PM
I read all the posts in this thread and noticed a few things I'd like to bring to the table. Some instructors make a larger than life deal about video taping...though it can be helpful for the skilled eye to watch it, can it be that helpful to those who DONT know or remember what to look for?

I will not/do not corral all instructors into one catagory but it seems to me that most instructors follow the a unwritten rule of fundamentals and attack them all the same. Doesnt that promote a "cookie cutter" like player time after time? What about "table management" or the ability to use "tunnel vision" or the mental power to "think of nothing"? Any of you remember that in the lessons you pay for? I'll bet no more times than yes...

Last but not least I will not say I'll teach you this better than so-n-so or a BCA Instructor isnt this or that, I'll approach it this way. When you find someone that knows HOW to help you at your speed, finds your weakness and turns them into strengths and makes your strengths stronger than you could imagine. Teaches you how to fish instead of feed you one...then and only then have you found a worthy instructor!! I bet I have typed intirely too much!!

Voodoo~~~wish's all the new players good luck

bluewolf
04-20-2004, 01:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr>
I will not/do not corral all instructors into one catagory but it seems to me that most instructors follow the a unwritten rule of fundamentals and attack them all the same. Doesnt that promote a "cookie cutter" like player time after time? What about "table management" or the ability to use "tunnel vision" or the mental power to "think of nothing"? Any of you remember that in the lessons you pay for? I'll bet no more times than yes...

Last but not least I will not say I'll teach you this better than so-n-so or a BCA Instructor isnt this or that, I'll approach it this way. When you find someone that knows HOW to help you at your speed, finds your weakness and turns them into strengths and makes your strengths stronger than you could imagine. Teaches you how to fish instead of feed you one...then and only then have you found a worthy instructor!! I bet I have typed intirely too much!!

Voodoo~~~wish's all the new players good luck <hr /></blockquote>

I liked this. I do not know very many A players except for on here, but some of the things you mentioned about strategy and the mental things, I do not see being taught by many instructors or league captains. I have to be fair though: when I took scotts lesson and randys pool school, I was a rank beginner and I needed a stroke and so forth, so I cannot really say anything about what they do teach their advanced pupils.

The instructor you speak of sounds like a rare gem and Fran Crimi did come to mind when I was reading your post.


Laura

woody_968
04-20-2004, 05:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> I read all the posts in this thread and noticed a few things I'd like to bring to the table. Some instructors make a larger than life deal about video taping...though it can be helpful for the skilled eye to watch it, can it be that helpful to those who DONT know or remember what to look for?

<font color="blue"> I do think video tape is good even for those that may not know what to look for. It can refresh them on how to do drills, and margin of error on these drills. Scott did teach me to allow for a margin of error on drills, allowing for more positive feed back which I do agree with. As I get better I just tighten up the margins.

Another thing watching a tape of your lesson can do is give you a boost of motivation. At times I get tired of practicing, but after watching a tape of my lesson I seem to become more dedicated to working again. </font color>

I will not/do not corral all instructors into one catagory but it seems to me that most instructors follow the a unwritten rule of fundamentals and attack them all the same. Doesnt that promote a "cookie cutter" like player time after time? What about "table management" or the ability to use "tunnel vision" or the mental power to "think of nothing"? Any of you remember that in the lessons you pay for? I'll bet no more times than yes...

<font color="blue"> This is a good point, and working on the mental aspect is as important as any other, maybe even more important once players reach a capable level. </font color>
Last but not least I will not say I'll teach you this better than so-n-so or a BCA Instructor isnt this or that, I'll approach it this way. When you find someone that knows HOW to help you at your speed, finds your weakness and turns them into strengths and makes your strengths stronger than you could imagine. Teaches you how to fish instead of feed you one...then and only then have you found a worthy instructor!! I bet I have typed intirely too much!!

<font color="blue">Tap Tap Tap. (agreeing with your last point, not saying you typed to much /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>
Voodoo~~~wish's all the new players good luck <hr /></blockquote>

bluewolf
04-21-2004, 05:08 AM
If scott had only video taped me playing, it would have been not very beneficial. Even though he taught me many fundamentals, focusing particularly on the stroke, I was just a beginner and had to practice this a lot.

When I watched the tape, I watched SCOTT'S stroke, because I knew that his was right and it was that stroke that I wanted, not my imperfect one. Then even when I was not at the table, I remember what now seems to be a funny time, walking in the woods and swinging my arm in the pendulum stroke he had taught me.I also watched his demos of the other things like the speed control drills. Just like some beginners will try to emulate a good player that they see, I tried to emulate the good player, Scott, from the video that I had.

As far as instructors, even BCA ones, there are demarkations. When I went to Randys pool school, he had three sl7 assistants who were training to be bca instructors. Of the three, I liked one in particular. All of them taught the same bca stuff, but the one I liked actually was not the strongest player of the three but he was gentle, kind and encouraging, while correcting me at the same time. I was just a beginner and very intimidated by 'brashness' and I will never forget that guy. he contributed a lot to my good experience at randys pool school.

Laura

pooltchr
04-21-2004, 06:24 AM
Voodoo,
Your "fish" point hits the nail on the head. I entered the instructor program through Randyg's school. One of the most important things he shared with me is that we can not teach people how to play pool, but rather teach them how to LEARN to play pool. I try to keep that in mind with all of my students. Make sure they understand the concepts that are the building blocks to continual improvement.

Great Point!
Steve

Bob_Jewett
04-21-2004, 12:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> ... Some instructors make a larger than life deal about video taping...though it can be helpful for the skilled eye to watch it, can it be that helpful to those who DONT know or remember what to look for? ... <hr /></blockquote>
Usually, it is the instructor who will be pointing out the things to notice on the playback, although faults of beginners are often so glaring that no prompting is necessary.

I think that there are very few problems that video taping can catch that cannot be indicated in some other way. For example, if a player has severe, rail-banging elbow drop, the stick in the air and the bruised knuckles are sure indicators without actually seeing it on TV. However, many players simply cannot understand "If your tip ends two feet in the air, your elbow must have dropped." For them, seeing is believing, and video allows them to see. (While I used elbow drop as an example, there are other such problems as well.)

Scott Lee
04-21-2004, 01:12 PM
Steve...Like Bob said, sometimes "seeing is believing" for certain students. However, IMO, the real benefit to videotaping (assuming you get a copy of the tape), is the ability to watch the tape over and over...even slow motion for some parts. It is simply impossible to retain, and remember all the information provided in even a two hour lesson, the next day, let alone a month or more later. Also, the student will certainly see and hear things on subsequent viewings, that they missed the first time they viewed the tape.

About your other comments, regarding strategy, etc....I agree in principle, but MOST students need to improve the quality of their stroke FIRST, before lessons in strategy will have much meaning or effect on their game. If you cannot stroke the CB the same place, the same way, at least a few times in a row, all the strategy in the world will not help you improve...at least permanent improvement! JMO

Scott Lee

Wally_in_Cincy
04-21-2004, 01:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>
...About your other comments, regarding strategy, etc....I agree in principle, but MOST students need to improve the quality of their stroke FIRST, before lessons in strategy will have much meaning or effect on their game.....<hr /></blockquote>

Along that line I believe strategy can be taught but it comes mostly from experience. It's hard to teach someone to see patterns. You can teach someone to see potential safeties but it takes a lot of pounding into their thick heads sometimes /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

JMO

SpiderMan
04-21-2004, 01:37 PM
Hi Scott,

I'd have to agree with Chopstick from one point of view.

A professional coach such as yourself will be able to work with a wide variety of players and styles, but most world-class players probably haven't developed the same teaching skills.

IF you are going to seek out a teacher with championship playing credentials (and pool is one of the few sports where that is affordable to the common man), then it is probably quite helpful if aspects of his style match your own. After all, he has spent his life focusing on his own performance, so he will be studying your game in the same manner as he would study a tape of himself.

For example, I have known Chopstick for many years. He actually invited me to the poolhall for my first time when we were both about 19. Our physical differences make his stance more sideways and more upright than my own.

Last Sunday he called from Florida to tell me about his first lesson with Buddy Hall, and noted that Buddy had pointed out a small final-stroke quirk that had gone unnoticed by all other players and instructors. I suspect the similarities in their style or form had Buddy's attention focused at the right place and the right time, as Chopstick said he interrupted him from the other side of the room to point it out.

He now says that one subtlety has made a noticeable improvement in his cueing, and that alone was worth the price of the lesson because no one else may have seen it as a problem.

That part makes a lot of sense to me. Now if I could just find a contortionist world champion with 38" sleeves and inseams ......

SpiderMan

Voodoo Daddy
04-21-2004, 01:38 PM
Well Scott...if anyone was gonna cut my post up it would be you!! I feel that a video tape "may" help those who retain everything you tell them to look for in the time you spend with them. Knowing that cant be with them 24/7, in most cases the tape almost serves as a "here's you today, take more lessons so we can tape more bad mechanics". I'd rather show them a Buddy Hall, Steve Mizerak or Mike Sigel tape and have them emulate these proven styles instead of watching their own faults, dwelling on them over and over, JMO!!

As far as strategy, when working with begginers there is NEVER any talk of it and I feel thats wrong. More than once I have overheard from a league table; "hit it here cause I said so" or "you take lessons, ask your instructor why you need to do that". Its a crucial part of this game and its overlooked by too many "teachers". Everyone has their opinion Scott {Which I respect}...you, Bob and every other guy that makes $$$ teaching. You feed your horse, I'll feed mine /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Voodoo~~~can hardly wait to read the responses

Bob_Jewett
04-21-2004, 03:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> ... As far as strategy, when working with beginers there is NEVER any talk of it and I feel thats wrong. ... <hr /></blockquote>
I think you've been watching the wrong "instructors." Maybe it's true for them, but simple strategy and patterns are taught by all the instructors I know.

On the other hand... Consider the seven in front of the side pocket, the eight by the line on the same side of the table, and the nine on the foot rail, with cue ball in hand. If a player can't get through these three balls one time in four, I think they should spend most of their time on basic strokes. If you have no foundation, there is nothing to build strategy on.

Frank_Glenn
04-21-2004, 04:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> However, many players simply cannot understand "If your tip ends two feet in the air, your elbow must have dropped." For them, seeing is believing, and video allows them to see. (While I used elbow drop as an example, there are other such problems as well.) <hr /></blockquote>

We taped our training sessions on the Simulator at the nuclear plant. Some of the operators would deny doing certain things. The camera never lies. When shown that they in fact did do "such &amp; such" it was pretty easy to "fix" the problem. As long as they were in denial that there was a problem it was nearly impossable to fix. I tape myself often and see what I'm doing wrong. I am a strong proponent of taping. YMMV

Voodoo Daddy
04-21-2004, 04:10 PM
Bob...&lt;Voodoo laughs and shakes his head&gt;, just because I'm not in print monthly nor do I profess my "knowledge" online doesnt mean I dont have a handle on what I speak of. I dont "watch" instructors &lt;maybe I should to see what I'm missing /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif&gt;, what I do in real life is listen and/or read countless stories of "instruction" and the things I pointed out were either overused or the seldom mentioned. I wont get into a pissin' contest with you or Scott...its your jobs, not mine. I'm just a lowly biker that used to play a lil!!

Voodoo~~~knows this...I said/read/heard enough /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Popcorn
04-21-2004, 05:20 PM
I get the impression they get a tape of the whole session so they can review the lesson. It takes time for things to sink in and become a part of your game, Once they grasp it I doubt they would be using the same tape any longer, it would be good for quite a while though. Good fundamentals never go out of fashion.

Popcorn
04-21-2004, 05:23 PM
It is not a bad way to learn, but it is sometimes better to learn from others experience then from your own mistakes. I would not suggest trying to learn to swim like that.

Scott Lee
04-22-2004, 10:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr>

As far as strategy, when working with begginers there is NEVER any talk of it and I feel thats wrong. More than once I have overheard from a league table; "hit it here cause I said so" or "you take lessons, ask your instructor why you need to do that". Its a crucial part of this game and its overlooked by too many "teachers".
Voodoo~~~can hardly wait to read the responses <hr /></blockquote>

Steve, I agree with you on the strategy part...and I discuss that some with EVERY student, on the first lesson, regardless of the ability of player. It's even part of one of the exercises I recommend to improve your stroke. Kato knows which one. It's the grid, and it is highly subjective to strategy play, because of the perameters within the exercise.

Scott

Nightstalker
04-22-2004, 11:16 AM
I'd say that I would look for an instructor who goes by the name Scott lee. That is all that matters. After reading his website and posts here I know all I really need to know about his qualifications and skill at teaching this great game which we all love so much! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RUNaRAK
04-22-2004, 12:05 PM
Videotaping my lesson from Scott proved to be very beneficial to me. I also used tapes of players such as Sigel, Hall etc. to improve my game and learn but I also get much from having the tapes lessons to go back to for reference. I even tape myself playing pool on ocassion to help me identify my flaws.

woody_968
04-22-2004, 12:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr>
As far as strategy, when working with begginers there is NEVER any talk of it and I feel thats wrong. More than once I have overheard from a league table; "hit it here cause I said so" or "you take lessons, ask your instructor why you need to do that". Its a crucial part of this game and its overlooked by too many "teachers". Everyone has their opinion Scott {Which I respect}...you, Bob and every other guy that makes $$$ teaching. You feed your horse, I'll feed mine /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Voodoo~~~can hardly wait to read the responses <hr /></blockquote>

I agree that theory is not talked about enough by many of the people out there teaching. One thing I will say about my lesson with Scott is he did get into some of the table layout theory. Even more surprising was the menatl pointers that he gave that Im sure many "instructors" wouldnt go into. As an example we talked about haveing a margin of error while doing drills so that students can give themselves positive feed back while practicing. And not shooting the same impossible shot 100s of times in a row and getting frustrated. These are teaching theories that I personally feel are very important but have never heard any other instructor or video tape talk about.

I am not here to blow Scotts whistle, just pointing out some of the things he does that I think are important in the teaching proccess.

P.S. Your point about hearing some of the things from league tables is right on! It is incredible some of the things 7s will try to get 3s to do, and even if they could do it dont explain why they are doing it so they wont have to call a timeout the next time to show them again. Not to mention just to improve the players overall enjoyment of the game.

bluewolf
04-23-2004, 11:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr> P.S. Your point about hearing some of the things from league tables is right on! It is incredible some of the things 7s will try to get 3s to do, and even if they could do it dont explain why they are doing it so they wont have to call a timeout the next time to show them again. Not to mention just to improve the players overall enjoyment of the game. <hr /></blockquote>

This would be funny if it were not so sad. I knew an sl2 who had apparently received some coaching on specific shots with english, from the conversation. After missing a straight in shot that this girl, being a fairly good two, I mean one who could make balls, she turned to me and said 'I thought english was supposed to be good'.

I prefer to play with minimal if any coaching, learning by experience and from my mistakes, while I have sometimes been beaten by very confused sl3s who could not think for themselves and only got the shot because they were told where to hit the ball, which english, the coach even demonstrated how to stroke it, gosh he might as well have hit it himself. LOL. But such is life, it is not an open tournament nor a money game, so just try to roll with the punches.

Laura